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Author Topic: Help Me!!!!  (Read 2797 times)

Offline 3gooddogs

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Help Me!!!!
« on: July 09, 2008, 01:23:25 am »
 :'( It appears that I have a honey/pollen bound brood nest, two deep boxes.  top full of honey, bottom pollen and 1 frame front and back with open brood, but I could not see any eggs or the queen.  The honey super has been on without the queen excluder for about 3 weeks.  They have not touched it.  two weeks ago, I saw that they were not touching it so I did a little slashing of the sealed honey stores to perhaps get them moving it upstairs but now here I am and I think either they swarmed or the queen is defective.  This was a package hived in April.  Help me!  Should I order a new queen or wait until next year?  Not sure.
Nikki

Offline Bill W.

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Re: Help Me!!!!
« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2008, 01:39:30 am »
Sounds like they either swarmed or are about to.  Do you see any swarm cells?

Do you have any extra frames?  If so, I would remove two frames of honey from each brood box and put two empty frames in the middle.  This will at least give them room, so you can see what is going on.

If you get eggs in the new frames, then you have a queen.  If not, maybe you can get a frame of brood from another local beekeeper or buy a queen.

Offline indypartridge

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Re: Help Me!!!!
« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2008, 07:37:19 am »
Quote
1 frame front and back with open brood
Open brood means the queen has been laying very recently. Remember: eggs hatch in about 3 days and brood is capped at about 9 days. Because of my eyesight, I rarely see eggs (or the queen) so I usually look for very small larva. If I see that, I can be reasonably sure the queen is doing fine.

Quote
honey super has been on without the queen excluder for about 3 weeks.  They have not touched it.
Is there a good nectar flow right now in your area? If there's no flow, it's not unusual for them to ignore any supers.

I think Bill W offered some good advice: take out a couple frame of honey and open up the broodnest. See what happens.   Good Luck!

Offline Brian D. Bray

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Re: Help Me!!!!
« Reply #3 on: July 09, 2008, 10:54:30 pm »
I found the same situation in my daughter's hive when I inspected to day.  Both boxes full of nectar and only a few unhatched drone cells.  This hive had been going gangbusters up to the last inspection.  Still a good population of bees so I robbed a frame with some brood and eggs from my other hive.  I'll see what develops, if they build queen cells I know they were queenless.  I could not find the queen and she was marked with a blue dot (blue is for 08).  Box and a half of nectar so I robbed 2 frames of nectar to help the other hive.  I put in one frame of empty comb to open up the brood chamber if the queen is still present and one with some brood in case they went queenless. 
Since my other hive is still struggling back from the brink of starvation due to our late winter this year I took only a partial frame of brood, leaving as much as possible in the other one and the 2 frames of nectar will help the other hive build brood. 

I will check back in a week, I may end up ordering a couple of queens from Olympic Apiaries in Port Angeles and break everything down into three double stacked nucs for the winter.  I'll have to see what happens.

I hope my course of action gives you a few ideas that'll help.

BTW, all PNW beekeepers are invited to my place for a BBA bash on August 31st, consider yourself invited.
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Offline poka-bee

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Re: Help Me!!!!
« Reply #4 on: July 09, 2008, 11:06:04 pm »
Brian, last time I checked  Olympic has no production queens, they MAY have some breeder queens for $200..eeks! :shock: Go to the website, we aren't the only ones who had problems this year!  Jody
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Offline Brian D. Bray

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Re: Help Me!!!!
« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2008, 11:39:57 pm »
Brian, last time I checked  Olympic has no production queens, they MAY have some breeder queens for $200..eeks! :shock: Go to the website, we aren't the only ones who had problems this year!  Jody

You're right.  I now recall that they had Bear and starvation problems over the winter and spring and lost all but the home yard.  Guess I'll get my queens else where if I decide to go that route.
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Offline jojoroxx

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Re: Help Me!!!!
« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2008, 09:27:52 pm »
Y'all make it sound so simple; "..so I robbed a frame with some brood and eggs from my other hive..."

Where do you put the frames you have robbed? Are you replacing them immediately with spare frames? Or, (God forbid) are both hives  open at once?? I assume you are taking the frames, bees and all...

It sounds so good in theory, but out there in the heat, and buzz of the moment, it seems a bit much to me! :?

Offline johnnybigfish

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Re: Help Me!!!!
« Reply #7 on: July 10, 2008, 09:28:24 pm »
Hey Nikki,
 Have you seen eggs in there before?
 I found that for me, I sometimes dont see any eggs but only larvas and hatchlings and capped brood. Maybe they have swarmed, but I thought that bees would have another queen in the wings waiting to take over.
 Spotting eggs is kinda like spotting a deer along the highway....Everybody in the vehicle sees the deer but me....Then, I SEE A DEER!....Then I see all the deers..For me, thats how it was with spotting eggs...I never could see them at first....Then, I SAW ONE!!!..Then I saw them all over the place!
 Also,....If its any encouragement,.....I have 7 hives now, in my second year.....And I have only seen a queen ONE time! It was one of my originals from last year with a green spot on her back!...Then, I took my eyes off of her, and,...."Hocus Pocus......"....She was gone again!
 I also have a couple hives that sound like they look like yours....Right now, I dont mess with them except to see if theres anything going on...I was gonna look today for eggs but they (all the hives) were kinda snappy...
 But It was worth it...My boy carried some feeder jars out there to me and next thing i saw was him running and flapping all over the place!!!..First time he's been away from that #$%^ video game machine and computer all summer!


Good luck, and I'm looking forward to seeing replies to your post! :)

your friend,
john

Offline Brian D. Bray

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Re: Help Me!!!!
« Reply #8 on: July 10, 2008, 10:37:15 pm »
Y'all make it sound so simple; "..so I robbed a frame with some brood and eggs from my other hive..."

Where do you put the frames you have robbed? Are you replacing them immediately with spare frames? Or, (God forbid) are both hives  open at once?? I assume you are taking the frames, bees and all...

It sounds so good in theory, but out there in the heat, and buzz of the moment, it seems a bit much to me! :?

There I was, knee deep in clover, every bee hive without it's top and a frame of brood in each hand...now where does this go?

I've done with 10 hives at once back in my younger days, I'm lazier now and not as good at multitasking.
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Offline danno

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Re: Help Me!!!!
« Reply #9 on: July 11, 2008, 09:46:53 am »
Brian
2008 queens should be marked with red
Year ending in 0 or 5; blue, 1 or 6; white, 2 or 7; yellow, 3 or 8; red, 4 or 9; green.

Offline josbees

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Re: Help Me!!!!
« Reply #10 on: July 11, 2008, 10:49:38 am »
That worries me -- I've had four queens at different times this season and each one was marked with blue.  Could that possibly mean I'm getting three-year olds?????

Offline Steve M.

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Re: Help Me!!!!
« Reply #11 on: July 11, 2008, 11:02:56 am »
The queen I just received today is marked with red.  Perhaps the queens you have been seeing with blue are coming from someone using a different coloring convention?  Only a thought.
--Steve

Offline kathyp

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Re: Help Me!!!!
« Reply #12 on: July 11, 2008, 11:34:09 am »
Quote
Where do you put the frames you have robbed?
  :-)

try not to get overwhelmed by the small stuff.  make a plan in your head and it helps.

here is an example of how i usually do it:

i open the hive that needs to donor frames.  i remove two frames from the end(s) of the super.  one frame i leave beside the weak hive.  the other i take with me to the donor hive.  i leave the needy hive open. 

i open the hive from which i am taking the brood.  i remove one end frame from that super.  then i begin moving the frames apart and pulling them one by one to find the frame that i want.  it will be one with open brood and very small larvae.  i never can see eggs, so i go on the assumption that tiny larvae means that the queen has been there recently.  after finding the frame that i want, and making sure that the queen is not on it,  i take it to the 1st hive and place it near the middle.  push the frames together and replace the frame that i have left with that hive.  depending on what the hive looks like, i will put that empty frame next to the brood, or back close to the end. a queenless hive will often have filled the super with honey.  if this is the case, you want that extra empty frame next to the brood you have added.  close hive.

returning to the donor hive, i take the empty frame from hive one, and place it at the end of the brood chamber.  this will give the bees something to work on, and the queen something empty to lay in.

close it up.

i may or may not use smoke.  often not.

everyone does it differently.  this works for me.  hope it gives you some ideas.
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Offline johnnybigfish

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Re: Help Me!!!!
« Reply #13 on: July 11, 2008, 08:11:58 pm »
 Ok,....I have to retract my last post...
I was out there looking at the trailor bees I caught recently..Theres not many bees in there.......But,...Guess what????...THATS RIGHT!!!...I SAW the queen!...Her wings were shorter than the rest of the bees,...But Check this out!..Just to confirm it was the queen, as I was watching her and thinking it over, an EGG came out of her rear end!!! :shock:, So I freaked, closed it up, and called Paul!
He wants to look too but I wont let him!..Ok,..Gotts go...REDSOX!

your friend,
john

Offline jojoroxx

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Re: Help Me!!!!
« Reply #14 on: July 11, 2008, 08:59:40 pm »
Awesome advice kathy, I knew there was a logical way to approach this. I really appreciate the help.

Offline Brian D. Bray

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Re: Help Me!!!!
« Reply #15 on: July 13, 2008, 11:45:00 pm »
Brian
2008 queens should be marked with red
Year ending in 0 or 5; blue, 1 or 6; white, 2 or 7; yellow, 3 or 8; red, 4 or 9; green.


These days I think the color code is no longer adhered to, the suppliers just hand a marking pen to each employee and the color the queen is marked with depends on the employee.  The other senerio is that they're too cheap to buy more than one color of pen.
Life is a school.  What have you learned?   :brian:      The greatest danger to our society is apathy, vote in every election!