Queen excluders

[Shawn]

I know there are numerous post about excluders and it is opinion from each person. Not having my bees yet I had some questions on the old post. Lets just say the hive set up will be 2 deeps and 2 shallows using the frames that comes with the kit, I know "dont buy the kit" but I did that before I found the forums. If the excluder is put on I know there will not be any brood in the supers. If I leave the excluder off will the queen use all the romo there is for brood and stogage leaving me with no honey? I am really trying to do the right thing, not sure if there is a right way for anything, to do my best for the bees and myself. I am worried about letting the colony getting too large due to I am in the middle of the city and have alrady been told if a neighbor complains I will have to get rid of the bees. I will try to bribe the neighbor

[Shawn]

sorry, someone just hitting keys. Like I was saying I was going to try to bribe the neighbors with honey to keep the peace. Anyway if anyone has any suggestions please let me know. Im going to keep going through the old post baout excluders. My other question would be how would the set up to the hive be if you use a top entrance and an excluder? Thanks!

[Robo]

Most people feel that excluders reduce the amount of honey you will get and refer to them as honey reducers.  So to answer your question,  no you will not get less honey if you don't use an excluder.   Don't even think about using an excluder until all your foundation is drawn into comb.  Bees will not go thru an excluder unless there is something on the other side to lure them and foundation won't do it.   If you don't use an excluder,  yes the queen will probably lay some in your shallows, but as honey flow comes in,  the bees will quickly store nectar into cells as the brood hatches and slowly "push" the queen back down into the brood nest.  This is not an issue unless you plan on doing comb or cut comb honey,  but as a newbie I wouldn't suggest jumping right into that.

I use queen exluders as queen includers when I catch swarms or doing queen rearing.  I never use them for keeping the queen out of honey supers.

BTW,  to use an excluder,  you need a bottom entrance as drones need an exit from the hive.  I know top entrances seem to be the latest fad,  but unless you like standing in the middle of a continuously growing swarm of bees frantically trying to find their entrance when your doing inspections,  I would recommend sticking with the bottom entrance.  With bottom entrance, filed bees continue to return to the hive when you remove supers while doing inspections.  With top entrances,  as soon as you remove the entrance to dig into the supers,  returning bees loose their entrance and start flying around looking for it.  The number of disoriented bees continues to grow the whole time you are inspecting making it pretty intimidating after a few minutes and you start rushing.  Then as you try to reassemble the hive,  you have bees landing on top of the hive and you end up crushing bees as you reassemble.   

[Cindi]

Rob, I keep forgetting to respond to your comments I hear now and then about the top entrance and bottom entrance.  I have both top and bottom entrances.  I personally think it has good merits, as you do.  I like the fact that if I am working the colonies that they can still enter their home through the regular doorway, which is the bottom.

I can see problems with only top entrances, and yes, they are mainly what you speak about.  When you use top entrances only, definitely all those bees that want to come home will be trying to get in through the top, just where they are used to, you will be encountering more bees to deal with, and yes, some pretty frustrated and disoriented bees because their entranceway looks pretty different with a human, a smoker, the roof ripped off, bottom and top entrances for this gal, ain't never gonna change that method of entrances for sure!!.  Beautiful and wonderful day, love our life with live.  Cindi

[bjpbike]

HI

   Not to get off topic. But who exactly told you, that if a nieghbor complainen you would have to get rid of the bees.

[Cindi]

Bjpbike.  I see you are new to our forum, welcome, glad you found us and have already made a comment, that is good.  Stick around, we would love to hear about you and what you are up to, new members are always wonderful to have here, our numbers are growing, and it is a great thing.  Tell us about yourself, have a wonderful and great day on this greatest of planets, Earth.  Cindi

[Joseph Clemens]

Queen Excluder Research

Apparently the location of the queen excluder and the location of any entrances must be coordinated appropriately for good success with queen excluders.

[reinbeau]

HI

   Not to get off topic. But who exactly told you, that if a nieghbor complainen you would have to get rid of the bees.

Depends on how hard they want to push it.  If there's no zoning, then the law is pretty much on your side, but if they complain and there are rules then they can make you get rid of them.

Welcome to the forum - could you please go into your profile and add your location info?  People from your own general area can help you with specific questions if they know where you're beekeeping.

[Shawn]

Thanks for the info Robo. To explain the neighbor situation. I am actually a police officer where I live but I had to go to the planning and zoning board to get approval for the bees. The building code inspector had me go because he thought I was trying to set up a business instead of just a hobby. All the board members said there was nothing they could say unless I was going to make it a business and they could not regulate a hobby. However are city has a municipal code for continous problems, cant find the right word to put down. If there are too many complaints agaisnt a property no matter what it is the goverment can make you get rid of that problem. Nuisance that is the word I was looking for. So all in all that is where the bribing comes in. SO I guess Ill try the method of no excluder unless someone can come up with a valid reason to use them.

[Joseph Clemens]

Shawn,
You should read this research on queen excluders: Queen Excluder Research Link

What seems relevant is how excluders used above the brood where an upper entrance was used immediately above the excluder/brood area and no lower entrance was used -- the bees stored as much honey as without an excluder and the brood area did not become congested. To me this should equate to more honey with less chance of swarming. Swarming bees seem to frighten more non-beekeeper people than most any other thing bees do, besides stinging.

[Brian D. Bray]

Thanks for the info Robo. To explain the neighbor situation. I am actually a police officer where I live but I had to go to the planning and zoning board to get approval for the bees. The building code inspector had me go because he thought I was trying to set up a business instead of just a hobby. All the board members said there was nothing they could say unless I was going to make it a business and they could not regulate a hobby. However are city has a municipal code for continous problems, cant find the right word to put down. If there are too many complaints agaisnt a property no matter what it is the goverment can make you get rid of that problem. Nuisance that is the word I was looking for. So all in all that is where the bribing comes in. SO I guess Ill try the method of no excluder unless someone can come up with a valid reason to use them.

So they use the attractive nuisance ordinance as a control on things less popular.  Those types of ordinances were originally designed to require removal of derilect vehciles, machinery, etc, that kids would play and and get hurt.  Beekeeping is an agricultural pursuit and under NAFTA the honey bee is actually classified as vegitation.  If they ever what to force you into getting rid of your bees demand to see the ordinances on prohibited vegitation, if bees aren't listed they can't do it.  Attractive nuisance ordinances have never been used for vegitation, just man made objects.

One retired officer to an active one.

[Shawn]

I dont think Ill have any troubles, sure not going to serve myself a ticket. I think the only way Ill have some problems if one of my neighbors gets stung. One neighbor the bees will be closest is already deafly ill, only 25 years old. He always lets his weeds get way out of control then it takes him days to cut one area. I wanted to buy the property from his dad but he wanted 30,000 to much. 

[Daddys Girl]

I dont think Ill have any troubles, sure not going to serve myself a ticket. I think the only way Ill have some problems if one of my neighbors gets stung. One neighbor the bees will be closest is already deafly ill, only 25 years old. He always lets his weeds get way out of control then it takes him days to cut one area. I wanted to buy the property from his dad but he wanted 30,000 to much. 

They would have to prove that the bee who stung them was from your hive, and not another colony in the area.  I know that there are at least two commercial bee keepers operating within 3 miles of my house, one a mile away, and it would be darned hard to figure out whose bees stung someone in the development a half mile from here.

[jimmy_in_texas]

I have a neighbor that lives next door to me, their mostly outside on weekends, In the year since I got my first hive, no one there has been stung ever,  their back porch is about 50 feet from the hive.

on the other hand, I get stung sometimes due to sloppy work or the bees are in a foul mood, but you must be almost next to the hive to get their attention.

good bee management will also help keep bee aggression down.

[Michael Bush]

>If I leave the excluder off will the queen use all the romo there is for brood and stogage leaving me with no honey?

No.  But if you leave it on, she may run out of room and they may swarm.

> I am really trying to do the right thing, not sure if there is a right way for anything, to do my best for the bees and myself.

There is nothing unnatural about not using an excluder.  There is a lot unnatural about using one.

> I am worried about letting the colony getting too large due to I am in the middle of the city and have alrady been told if a neighbor complains I will have to get rid of the bees.

But if the colony runs out of room they will swarm.  While swarms are not dangerous, they seem to frighten people a lot.

> I will try to bribe the neighbor

Always a good plan.