multiplying hives (for self or for sale)

[Bob Wilson]

I am assuming that you full time, professional beeks do not buy queens, since through grafting or swarm ready hives, you get well fed and bred, locally acclimated queens from your own apiaries.
As a hobbyist in my 4th year, I want to increase, so which is better for me?

1. Pull some early spring nucs as I adjust my hives for crowding and maximize for honey flow population?
However, the above nucs are really made from emergency cells.

2. If I don't want to graft, I could sacrifice the potential honey gain from one of my hives, and instead fill it with any neccesary pulled frames from my other hives and let it go into swarm mode in spring?
Dividing that one swarm ready hive would supply all the nucs I need for myself and sales, and each nuc would receive the best of the pulled queen cells from a well fed, swarm minded, queen right colony. Would that not be one of the best ways to get well bred queens?

[jimineycricket]

Bob,    There are several ways to raise queens.  Grafting is only one way and seems to be popular because it produces the most numbers--but it is not necessarily the best way.  Check out these different places to see some different methods:

 https://www.hudsonvillehoney.com/2011/07/18/backyard-queen-rearing/
 http://www.bushfarms.com/beesafewgoodqueens.htm
 https://www.beesource.com/threads/raising-queen-cells-without-grafting-cut-cell-method.365841/

It seems to me that these different methods have one thing in common.  That is, the population density of the nurse bees feeding brood from time egg is laid until cell is capped, determines the quality of the queens. 

[Bob Wilson]

True, Jiminey. My plan is just one of many good plans to make queens. I guess for me, it is a very simple, effective way to make my own well bred queens with nothing more than a few empty nuc boxes.
I found Michael's ideas at the Bushfarms.com link the most doable for me this year. Thanks for it.

[cao]

What I did and still do is pull the queen and a couple frames from a strong hive and let the hive make new queens.  A week later go back into the hive and pull frames that have queen cells and make nukes from them.  This will ruin any chance of getting honey from these bees but I have successfully taken one hive and turned it into 10+ hives going into winter.  If you are worried about the quality of emergency cells, You can check the hive each week until you see swarm cells, then remove the queen and split up the cells into nucs.  Although if you miss checking them one week, that will be the week that they will swarm.

[TheHoneyPump]

Your OP option 1 above is the proper way to do it for best chance of successes at both increasing colony numbers and making a crop.
.. BUT, at the time the nucs are pulled either have a batch of ripe queen cells ready or bought queens in your pocket at the ready.  Put those in the day after the nucs are made. 
In other words, give the nuc a ripe cell or a queen.  Raise the cells or buy queens ahead of when nucs are made.  Do not have the nucs raise cells. 
Imho.  Hope that helps.

[Lesgold]

Bob, I would tend to agree with HP if you want a reliable method for increase. Personally I believe that forward planning is the main key to success. I don?t know your situation so I can?t really comment on a good  method for you. How many honey flow do you normally get in a season? If you only get one, you can plan around that. If you have multiple flows, you have more options. Do you get consistent seasons every year? Drought or really wet years can impact on your chances for increase. Last year I only produced two nucs as there was very little flowering in my area. I can produce really good queens from nucs but conditions have to be favourable ie a variety of pollens coming in and a good supply of nectar. As HP said, a ripe queen cell placed into a nuc would be my number one choice.

[Brian MCquilkin]

Early Spring: There are may different options when making increase. What I found that works best for me is I always take the original queen from the hive to make a nuc.

Option 1: add a new bought queen to the original hive and if she is accepted, build the hive up to take advantage of the Honey flow.
Option 2: let the original hive raise queen cells, as  a queen-less colony will normally raise more than one queen  cell.
I split the original hive in 2 boxes and and make sure I have at least one queen cell in each box with bees brood honey queen cell.
With a double screen board on top of the bottom box , put the other box on top of the double screen board .
make sure the second box entrance faces the other direction. Now that I have 2 boxes with 2 queen cells I have double the the chances of getting a mated queen. If the both cells hatch and the queens come back mated I now have 2 hives.
That = a nuc and 2 hives from the one hive, good odds.
Summer splits: I only use maited queens either bought or raised by by my bees.

[Oldbeavo]

If you are splitting for swarm control and to increase hive numbers, then it is early in the Spring and cells or queens are not available.
Splitting for swarm control should be done before the bees start to form swarm queen cells.
What is wrong with letting the split off nuc raising their own queen? Other than time saving.

[Bob Wilson]

If I understand right, I believe the idea is that an early made spring nuc usually doesn't have the resources to make a better quality queen.

[Lesgold]

Hi Bob,

Depends on the number of bees you have in the nuc, the amount of nectar and pollen stored in the frames and the available resources for the bees to bring in. A nuc can make great queens if you limit the uncapped brood that you put into the hive. You want as much energy going into making the queen as possible and limit the rearing of young brood.

[Bob Wilson]

True. I meant that early spring nucs making emergency cells can lack the resources of a well stocked hive, unless planned well.

[Oldbeavo]

Bob
The timing for early nucs raising their own queens is having enough drones to mate the new queens.
Our bees spend all of August pollinating almonds and so have good resources. By about the 7th Sept the drone larvae have purple yes and so will be old enough to mate by the time the new queens emerge.
Also at almonds there are bees from warmer climates that have drones, these drones will migrate to our droneless hives and so we pick up a group of drones that could mate early queens anyway.  Drone quality, don't know but from commercial hives.
So if you convert August, early Sept into Nth hemisphere dates, or when do almonds start to flower in your area.

[Bob Wilson]

No almonds around here on the eastern sea board. Just in places like California.
Our honey flow is in April-May. That's when fruit trees bloom (pear, cherry, apple)
I have had one of my hives swarm as early as March 10. That means there were QCs being build the last days of February. I have to admit I question whether there are drone congregation areas at that time. On the other hand, would a hive even make swarm cells if drones were not plentiful and ready?