Titanium House Wrap

[mtnb]

Is that the same as the tar/felt paper? I was telling my husband, who's a builder, that I need some felt paper and he said he would have some titanium paper left over soon that I can use. He says it's the same, just stronger, won't tear, and is easier to work with. So will it work the same on a hive as felt/tar paper? I googled it and it's gray. It says that will help keep the roof cooler, so should I paint it black? Will this titanium in the paper be ok for my hive?

[Hops Brewster]

My google-fu took me to this
http://www.interwrap.com/Titanium/udl_30_main.html

Looks to be a synthetic replacement for the traditional asphalt saturated paper roofing felt.  Claims to be lighter, stronger, easier to work with, more water resistant, air tight, etc.
I don't see why it wouldn't work to wrap brood boxes for winter.

[mtnb]

Thank you HB! I just found this. http://www.wicwas.com/sites/default/files/articles/Bee_Culture/BC2005-12.pdf  Under insulation it states "wrapping them with tar paper or some other flexible but hard material". Beekeeping is so vague. lol I think I need to quit over thinking all this and just try something and see if it works. I think my worry with the titanium paper is that I've read about people wrapping those styrofoam boards around their entire hives and it causing condensation inside and obviously having bad results. Changed the climate inside or something. I just don't want something like that to happen here.

[Hops Brewster]

Just leave them some breathing room!  I think as long as you don't hermetically seal the hives, they will be fine.  You want to leave some air flow for ventilation to keep the hive dry, so don't wrap over the cover, just the boxes.  The bees are propolizing everything they want closed up, and they leave open what they want open.  Follow their lead.
It is sealing them up tight with plastics, or even roof paper, that cause condensation problems in the hive.

[BeeMaster2]

Moisture on the walls of your hives is not all that bad, as a matter of fact, the bees use the water to dilute the honey so that they can eat it. Moisture on the roof is a real killer. If it drips down on the cluster it chills and kills the bees.  Added insulation under the lid with a slight slope and a small hole for ventilation  go a long way to help your bees.
Jim

[Blacksheep]

My lids are kinda bulky but work well,I start out with a band 3/4 X 3 inches and have a grove in the band for a piece of 3/8 plywood and over that I have 2 inches of styfoam
and then 3/4 plywood top cover with metal covering all wood

[GSF]

over thinking something you're somewhat new at is normal. When I first got my goats I drove myself crazy. I learned everything that could go wrong with them, then I saw bits and pieces of everything I read about.

[mtnb]

Moisture on the walls of your hives is not all that bad, as a matter of fact, the bees use the water to dilute the honey so that they can eat it. Moisture on the roof is a real killer. If it drips down on the cluster it chills and kills the bees.  Added insulation under the lid with a slight slope and a small hole for ventilation  go a long way to help your bees.
Jim

They dilute the honey before they can eat it? Again, I did not know that. lol The slight slope is a good idea. I have read that water in the hive isn't too bad as long as it doesn't drip on the cluster. I've read that when water runs down the walls and collect in pools on the bottom board, they use it for drinking.

[mtnb]

My lids are kinda bulky but work well,I start out with a band 3/4 X 3 inches and have a grove in the band for a piece of 3/8 plywood and over that I have 2 inches of styfoam
and then 3/4 plywood top cover with metal covering all wood

And where is your vent hole located?

[mtnb]

over thinking something you're somewhat new at is normal. When I first got my goats I drove myself crazy. I learned everything that could go wrong with them, then I saw bits and pieces of everything I read about.

Yup. I tend to jump into things head first and then I get information overload. lol

[OldMech]

K, I didnt read everything, so take it with a grain of salt...
  The "felt" or "tar" paper is not for insulation, it is for solar gain. It is the color that makes the difference.  Where I live, it often gets COLD..  -55 is not unheard of,but thats not the issue, its those sunny days that are 30 to 35 degrees. A day that my bees would normally NOT be capable of moving because of the cold, but because of the black tar paper, the inside of the hive warms up enough to allow the bees to break cluster, and MOVE to resources..  Maybe its three times in the winter that the tar paper makes a difference, maybe its ten times..  As I see it, if its only three times, then GOOD, thats three times they were able to relocate onto honey that they would normally not have been capable of.
   Moisture dripping down on the cluster is what you need to avoid for winter. Moisture anywhere else is fine because they can avoid it. They cant avoid a drip of ice water into the middle of their cluster..  The condensation elsewhere they will actually use, either to dilute their honey or to soften and dilute the sugar or candy board you put on the top bars. So you want a little condensation, just not enough to drip from the top.
   THis is how I set up for winter... Hope it helps!
   http://www.outyard.net/wintering.html

   Yes, information overload...  Everyone does things a little differently, and to each of us that does his thing differently, well we have to swear by our methods..  but you know what? If our methods didnt work we wouldnt have live bees come spring.  So, paying attention to the methods people use, that have similar climates to yours will often net you the best results..  toss out the fringe methods and stick to basic proven methods, then modify those methods to fit how YOU want to keep your bees.
   THAT is what its all about.

[mtnb]

I'm getting more of a mental picture of what's going on in the winter. Thanks OldMech. So if solar gain is the goal then this gray paper would not be as efficient as the black. I'll definitely have to paint it. My winters are also very cold with huge temperature fluctuations. Negative 30's at night and I've seen up to 60* during the day! And it get's VERY windy for a loooong time. I need to spend more time looking at your site. I'm on my ancient computer and I was trying to touch the screen and pull my fingers apart so as to zoom in. This is not a touch screen! lol Really no way to get close so I'll look again on my ipad later. I have the next few days off so I'll have some time. One thing that confused me though, and maybe I need to look on another section in your site, was the following statement under the inner cover section with the picture. You said, "The Foam is trimmed to set firmly ON the inner cover.. I remove the jar lid, and the bees leave the foam alone. If your bees do not, you can always tape the hole to prevent them from chewing on the foam." ...what jar lid?

I totally agree with you about staying local. I've talked to two locals now and both use the Mt. Camp method. Their vent holes are different but still function the same. When I've told people I'll be doing the Mt. Camp method (not locals, internet people) I've been told that this method is for emergency feeding only (they always stress ONLY). Well, the way I see it, like you OldMech, it's more insurance than anything. When it's at the point of being an emergency, it'll be too late and I won't be able to do anything about it.

One guy on the internet said that he has a mentor who puts an old glass window slanted, attached to the top, on the front of the hive. He says it warms up the hive nicely on warm sunny winter days and allows movement for the bees. I thought that was a good idea and something I would like to try in the future. I so wish I had more hives. I had no idea that beekeeping would really be just one giant science experiment. lol ...and I've always loved science!  ...there's always next year...and the next... ...it's been a long time since I've been excited about something in the future 

[OldMech]

" ...what jar lid?

   My inner covers have a hole set up to place a small mouth quart jar in them. when not feeding I just leave a jar lid in the hole.


   One guy on the internet said that he has a mentor who puts an old glass window slanted, attached to the top, on the front of the hive. He says it warms up the hive nicely on warm sunny winter days and allows movement for the bees. I thought that was a good idea and something I would like to try in the future.

   And that IS the fun of beekeeping.. Unfortunately, I have killed a few bees in trying different things, but I always learned and have not made the same mistake twice. Learning what works for you is what will keep you growing year after year.. the sad part?  Is that I will have MAYBE twenty more springs in my life to make queens etc.  It sounds like it is SUCH a short amount of time.

[mtnb]

Aw don't think like that. Guess that's why I don't think of the future too much. You really never know what can happen and if you don't make the most of it day by day, ...well, the whole time issue sucks. lol Both sides of my family lived well into their 90's so I figure I still have a good 40 years. lol I'm 45 now. How old are you OM, if I may ask? I hear what you're saying. The past 20 years have flown by.

Thanks for clarifying. I'm not looking foward to killing bees but I understand that it may happen and probably will. I'm sure I'll be back later with more questions. 

[KeyLargoBees]

All this overwintering stuff is alien to me.....my question....is it ok to harvest a honey super in January ;-)

Just kidding LOL.

[OldMech]

All this overwintering stuff is alien to me.....my question....is it ok to harvest a honey super in January ;-)

Just kidding LOL.

  Now Hush or I will come down this winter to visit friends.. Seems whenever i do that the temps follow and records are broken..   When it hits 60 degrees in the Florida keys the folks that live there break out their parkas and smell horribly of mothballs!   

[mtnb]

All this overwintering stuff is alien to me.....my question....is it ok to harvest a honey super in January ;-)

Just kidding LOL.

Oh you are just soooo funny lol Tease!