Downward angle of cells...level and TILT of hive....foundationless/foundation

[Intheswamp]

When a person asks about going foundationless he is often warned to be sure the hive is level from side-to-side to insure the comb is build in the same plane as the frames (and not tilted out the side of the frames).  In the same conversation he is urged to tilt the hive so that water/moisture will drain out the entrance in the case of solid bottom boards and to help condensation on the inside of the cover to run towards the front of the hive and not drip onto the winter cluster in the case of solid or screened bottom boards.  All of this makes good sense...

But, by tilting the hive in the fore and aft direction for water/moisture removal doesn't this affect the downward angle of the individual cells?  In other words, if the cell is built in a perfectly level hive (no fore or aft tilt) then the cells' upward angle will be almost perfectly angled to the 12-o'clock position in relation to the frame and gravity.  

If we tilt the hive, though, the angle of the cells will still be built with the correct upward angle in regards to gravity but it will not be correct in relation to the frame...if the frame is held level the downward angle of the cells will be several degrees tilted toward one end or the other, maybe toward the 11-o'clock or 1-o'clock position.

When the frames are moved or reused and these "tilted" combs are put into a hive backwards from the way they were drawn (in relation to the cell tilt) then the difference in angle could possibly be doubled and could possibly make the cells be tilted excessively to one side.

Does anyone mark which end of their frames go towards the entrance end of the hive to preserve the original "tilt"?  Combs are swapped around.  Sometimes to fill up a nuc, sometimes to give a queen some empty laying territory, sometimes to fill a super, etc., so I can see these frames getting reversed.  Naturally, while inspecting a colony the frames are replaced in the position that they came from...usually.

I know I mentioned foundationless in my first sentence because that is when people are usually cautioned about having their hives level and the "tilt it forward to keep rain out" tip is given.  The thoughts about the angle of the cells applies to foundation-drawn comb as well.

I don't think it's a biggie, but something that got on my mind... :)

Ed

ETA:  Was that clear as mud, or what!? ;)

[Joe D]

I take a 3 ft. level to each hive to check the level, side to side and front to back, when setting up a hive.  On my TBH I built frames not just the TB and I do number the frames and the numbers are all on the left side.  Besides all this you need to watch when you put a frame back in on any hive that the frame is straight up and down.  I have noticed that sometimes they will be at an angle.



Joe

[Intheswamp]

Joe, are you using screened bottom boards?

I agree with the frames hanging "crooked" at times...wedged in crooked, propolis hanging them up, etc.,...

Ed

[Joe D]

I have screened bottom boards on all but 2.  Was out when I got 2 swarms.  The TBH I built has a SBB also oil pan underneath thats slides out the rear.  The 2 without SBB have been bearding more than the rest.



Joe

[Sparky]

Many beeks tilt the boxes to rid the condensate in winter but not during the time of year when the bees are building comb and storing nectar. By the time the season comes to tilt hives the stores should be capped that it will not be a problem because of the upward tilt of the cells as the comb is built it could tilt to front or back without being a problem but you would not tilt to the back for the reasons you mentioned.

[Michael Bush]

I have seen them build comb in my observation hive on the glass with the cells sloped down toward the outside rather than down toward the center.  It does not seem to matter that much to them, although they USUALLY slope them toward the center line.