Broadcast wild white aster and goldenrod seed?

[Intheswamp]

I was planning on harvesting some wild aster seed but looks like the county has already come through and mowed the ROW.  :(  There's still a little left standing along some field edges so I thought I'd grab some of it.  Is it worth the effort?  Will aster seeds germinate and root by simply scattering the seed along the edge of a hayfield onto undisturbed, somewhat grassed soil.

I've already scattered a lot of goldenrod by simply vigorously sweeping the field edges with "brooms" of seeded stems.  It will be interesting to see how it does.

Ed

[AllenF]

It takes a lot of planting to make a big difference.  Just remember, Honey bees will tap about two million flowers and fly 50,000 miles to make one pound of honey.  But every little bit can help.  Look into planting very early spring blooming plants to boost early numbers for the spring flow.

[sterling]

It takes a lot of planting to make a big difference.  Just remember, Honey bees will tap about two million flowers and fly 50,000 miles to make one pound of honey.  But every little bit can help.  Look into planting very early spring blooming plants to boost early numbers for the spring flow.

But having blooms to work close by may keep them from having to fly 50,000 miles for every pound of honey. I like watching them work stuff I have planted. I plant clover everywhere I can in my area.

[Intheswamp]

Thanks Allen and sterling for the feedback.  Yes, I understand that I would have to plant many acres of a good nectar source for the bees to make a honey crop specifically from it.  But like sterling implied...every little bit helps. ;)  And, I'd kinda of like to have some sources close by to observe the bees on.

My focus right now is on late season crops so that the bees will have plenty to put up for winter use.  There's normally a spring and late summer harvest...getting light honey in the spring and dark honey in late summer.  Locally, it appears that most beeks leave the goldenrod, asters, tarweeds, etc., for the bees.  For my spring flow I'm looking at chinese privet hedge as a main source in my immediate area...along with the miscellaneous wildflowers.  Mid-summer is "iffy" due to a normal dearth...I'm also looking for things to fill in that time...I've got a few vitex negundo bushes started well and I'm hoping to use them to start other bushes...naturally this will only be a small bit of nectar but... :)

sterling, how and what do you plant in regards to clover?  I'm looking at using New Zealand white clover...it's drought resistance is appealing as is it's designation as being a perennial.  I don't have anything to scratch the soil so I'm hoping that broadcasting it on top of the grass might work.

Ed

[sterling]

I plant white and yellow clover. Nothing fancy it is call simply sweet clover. The white is like the clover that grows wild. This is my first year to sow the yellow sweet clover. And I plant it over already growing grass but I plant real early in the spring or late fall. I will walk along the road and scatter seed or any where that gets mowed but doesn't get sprayed with 2-4D.

[jaseemtp]

can you purchase golden rod seed?  Or is it best to find some fields and harvest the seed?

[Intheswamp]

sterling, thanks for the feedback on planting the clover.  I'm going to check with the local co-op and see what they've got.  I like the idea of simply scattering it here and there.  The reason I specifically mentioned the New Zealand clover is it noted drought resistance...down here summer can be tough.  It hasn't been as bad as Texas this year, that's for sure, but most of the time the rains that come from Mississippi and Louisiana head northeast and completely miss the southeast part of Alabama. :(  Many small ponds are about dried up and creeks are ditches.  Thankfully we got some decent rain last night and maybe will get more today.  Naturally I'm getting my first bees today...a tiny swarm my mentor captured last week...they've been heavily attacked by robbers so I'm moving them to my place...so I'll be dealing with a small, freshly robbed colony of bees during stormy weather...oughta be an interesting way to start my beeyard out!  :-D   Anyhow, I'm definitely going to try some perennial clover...thanks for the info!

jaseemtp, in regards to the goldenrod this is how I did it (my first time, so ymmv :) )...  Find you a good patch of it that has turned brown and fluffy (gone to seed).  I simply used a garbage bag to collect in.  I moved around a good bit in the patches so as not to completely bare an area (need some seed left there, too.)  What I did was break stems off about 2-3 feet long...I'd go along breaking stems off until I had a handful and then place them seedhead first into the bag.  The stems should break rather easily and seem "dry".  To spread the seeds I would grab a handful of stems and holding the seedheads close to the ground I'd shake the stems vigorously letting the light seeds float down to the ground.  At times I also used a sweeping motion against the ground to dislodge the "tighter" seeds...at times I'd "whip" the seedheads against bushes or low hanging tree limbs.   Holding the seedheads high in the air with a slight breeze will scatter them in a wider pattern....low to the ground they scatter in a more controlled area.  As for buying goldenrod seed I'm sure somebody sells them, but if they're native to your area (and I would imagine that they are) you should have no problem harvesting some.  Hope this helps.

Ed

[kingbee]

I suspect the best way to grow white asters, Spanish needles, or Alabama’s former state flower, the regal golden rod, is to mow, bush hog, or disk fallow areas each and every year (or two) after the first frost.  You want to maintain fallow crop lands, field edges, and ROWs and above all don’t let them get chocked out with sage grass, honey suckle (which is an oxymoron) briars, or small trees and brush.   The herbicide Grazeon is taking over from 2-4-D and Round Up.  Grazon only kills broad leafs, is deadly on clovers, and is used on pastures, ROWs, green spaces, walking trails etc.  I am told (but you better find out for yourself) that Grazon can be used on pastures while cows and horses still graze.   Since Grazon is usually applied early in the year, and by a contractor, if the contractor finds a ROW, trail, or green space that dosn't need spraying right now, they just may shrug their shoulders and decide to save the fuel, time, and Grazon needed to spray it.   

Remember, you bee living in the South, and every square inch of dirt exposed to the Sun will year after year  naturally grow out something considered a weed by everybody but a beekeeper.  If you can keep the Sun shining on that fallow crop land, field edge, hunting lease, or ROW you and your bees going to find asters, golden rod, and Spanish needles growing on it in no time at all.  I am not saying that you can’t plant an aster, but I am saying that it is much easier to keep what you already have, instead of trying to kick Mother Nature in the seat of the pants by planting weeds.  By now the old girl’s got weed raising down pat.

[Intheswamp]

I suspect the best way to grow white asters, Spanish needles, or Alabama’s former state flower, the regal golden rod, is to mow, bush hog, or disk fallow areas each and every year (or two) after the first frost.  You want to maintain fallow crop lands, field edges, and ROWs and above all don’t let them get chocked out with sage grass, honey suckle (which is an oxymoron) briars, or small trees and brush.   The herbicide Grazeon is taking over from 2-4-D and Round Up.  Grazon only kills broad leafs, is deadly on clovers, and is used on pastures, ROWs, green spaces, walking trails etc.  I am told (but you better find out for yourself) that Grazon can be used on pastures while cows and horses still graze.   Since Grazon is usually applied early in the year, and by a contractor, if the contractor finds a ROW, trail, or green space that dosn't need spraying right now, they just may shrug their shoulders and decide to save the fuel, time, and Grazon needed to spray it.   

Thanks for the reply, kingbee.  I need to find out what the state is spraying on the ROW of way down here.  I live beside a state highway and a few weeks ago was pulling out of the driveway only to find "The Sprayer" come down the road.  I stopped (basically blocking the sprayer) and went over to him to inquire about not spraying in my area.  The guy was nice and gave me his foreman's name and number.  I'm going to see if I can get it designated a no-spray zone.  The spray rig operator did volunteer that he had been spraying my area and a county to the east of it with a growth inhibitor for the last few years (makes you feel all warm and fuzzy, doesn't it?)...but, he said he hadn't seen where it did any good.  Sounds to me like some chemical company is getting over on the state and the state is needlessly poisoning the ground.

The problem with cultivating those fallow areas is that you've got to have the equipment.  I agree that it would do the areas a lot of good...both in knocking down undesirable plants but in scattering seed.  I like your thoughts on the ROW cutters not seeing anything to do so leaving the area untouched...nice thought.

Remember, you bee living in the South, and every square inch of dirt exposed to the Sun will year after year  naturally grow out something considered a weed by everybody but a beekeeper.  If you can keep the Sun shining on that fallow crop land, field edge, hunting lease, or ROW you and your bees going to find asters, golden rod, and Spanish needles growing on it in no time at all.  I am not saying that you can’t plant an aster, but I am saying that it is much easier to keep what you already have, instead of trying to kick Mother Nature in the seat of the pants by planting weeds.  By now the old girl’s got weed raising down pat.

Thanks for the thoughts on keeping the sun shining on the ground...I really hadn't thought about that, but it makes sense.  I'm not sure what I can do about that right now, but I'll keep it in the back of my mind.  If nothing else, I might get my trusty ol' John Deere 54" mower and trimmed the edges. :)

The idea of spreading the goldenrod is that this part of the hayfields had very few fall flowering plants along the transition area from field to woodland.  I just helped the wind out a little bit there, I'm hoping to see a ring of yellow around the field next fall. We'll see. :)

In regards to aster...  It's a perennial so it preserves it's rootstock but what about it's limb/branch structure?  Does it die back to the root each year?  Would mowing aster help or hurt them?  Seed scattering I can see would be a good thing, but...??  I'm curious about an area that the county road department recently mowed that had clouds of white aster growing on the ROW and the edge of a field...mowed them down to stubble basically.

Thanks for the feedback...you've got me thinking.
Ed

[greenbtree]

I have been restoring prairie on my property, and I will tell you that goldenrod and aster is some of the easiest to establish.  You won't need to till up the ground, some will take on even undisturbed soil as long as the seed can contact the soil somewhere!  Disturbing the soil improves the rate of the amount of seed that will take.  Even mowing as short as you can will help.  Dragging anything to scurf up the ground behind a truck or car can work - an old piece of chain link fence, whatever.  Gather the seeds when they are dry and fluffy looking, I just grab a seed head at the bottom and pull, and shove the resulting handful of seed in a bag.  Or you can break off the whole head.  After scattering the seed (I do it in the Fall, same as Mother Nature), rolling the bed will greatly help the seed contact the ground.  Before I got my tractor, I would just drive my car back and forth over the bed!  Be aware that most perennials DO NOT flower the first year, they spend that year establishing themselves and gaining strength.  I may even be year three before you see blooms. Some may not even germinate until year two.  The saying for wildflowers is "The first year they sleep, the second year they creep, the third year they leap."  Actually, mowing a bed can give you more blooms - if you do it right.  If you have a way to mow it very high after it is up more that six inches - just topping the plants - the plants will respond by throwing out more side branches, which them will give you more blooms.

JC

[kingbee]

The problem with fallow land becoming overgrown is that the Sunshine no longer strikes the soil and that measn that the plants you're trying to encourage (asters and golden rod) get shaded out and die.

[Intheswamp]

Yeah, I've got to figure out some way to cultivate those fields a bit, either disking or bushhogging.  I'll work on that. ;)

I made it over to the ROW where the wild aster was growing.  Even after the county mowed it down there is a good bit salvageable and even more in the edge of the nearby fields.  The half a garbage bag full of dead-head prunings that I got didn't make a dent in it.  There's a lot of it there so I may go back and get some more if this incoming rain doesn't beat the seeds off the bushes.  The site is two miles from my bee yard so getting some plants started closer seems like a good idea.

Even though we've had a some freezes I have a bush on the south side of my house that is loaded with yellow-centered white blooms.  It's some type of camelia bush (the best that I can tell).  The cold and frost has burned it some but there are still fresh flowers and more buds ready to break.  I've seen yellow jackets :evil: working it but only after I got that small nuc have I noticed honey bees on it...they depart from the bush, fly high and over the top of the house in the direction of the bee yard! :)  Yesterday during an inspection I noticed some dark yellow pollen on a few of the ladies, it took a little while for it to dawn on me where they were getting it from!  Duh, ok, I'm a little slow.<g>

Ed

[Intheswamp]

I'm taking it that now would be the correct time to plant the aster?  Picking those yesterday I lost a lot of seed from each handful I cut that gently flew away after being bumped or whatever.  I take it that being as the plants are dropping the their seeds easily that it would be a good time for me to "drop" them, too.

??

Ed

[jaseemtp]

that is what I would think, if the plants are seeding out then you should be able to

[Intheswamp]

Well, I got the aster seeds scattered.  I picked up a small telescoping 3-prong cultivator/hoe a while back and it worked great for scratching back the thatch to give the asters some dirt contact areas...shook the seedheads and tamped it with the cultivator head...got some good rain shortly afterwards so hopefully lots of the seeds will take.   I covered probably 3/8 mile of fencerow and wood edges with small "scratched" plantings.  We'll see.

This morning I scattered 10# of white dutch clover and 2# of crimson clower in the pasture around the beeyard.  I just spread it over the sod with a hand spreader.  We're supposed to get rain for the next several days with temps in the low 70's so I'm hoping this will wash the seed on down to the dirt.  Not the best time to plant, but we'll see.  Looks like the rain is about 30 minutes away. 

I figure some of the clover will take and I'll hopefully plant more later.  I know it won't give me a crop of honey, but it won't hurt anything...and if I do a little all along, who knows!?  ;)  Basically I've got the southern exposed wood edges and some fence rows saturated with goldenrod and aster seeds with clover planted out in the pasture and elsewhere.  Lot's of ground left to cover.

It will be interesting to see what is growing there come this spring and fall. :)

Ed

[kingbee]

Too bad we don't get more snow here than we do.   :-D Yea, sure. :-D  Just before a big snow fall is the best time to broadcast clover seed.  As the temp warms and the snow melts the water gently puts the clover seeds in direct contact with the soil, and the snow cover somewhat protects the seeds from hungry birds. 

I see no reason to plant Crimson clover unless you're an Alabama fan.  (Roll Tide)  My understanding is that genuine crimson clover is immune to the attention of honeybees.  Red clover, a sub variety of Dutch clover on the other hand is another matter.  In you part of the world you should have old pecan orchards.  It looks to me like these areas are prime locations to establish clover plots.  A good stand of Dutch or red clover lasts all season as long as it is not exposed to excessive grazing, mowing, or drought.  Crimson clover on the other hand is more of a wham bam proposition.

[Intheswamp]

The crimson was mostly for my wife who is interesting in using some of it for health purposes.  Maybe the crimson will distract the deer from the dutch, too. ;)  The only grazing will be from deer,...no cattle grazing, but the deer are plentiful enough.  Who knows, I may go in for one of those agriculture permits to do some deer harvesting.  As I was spreading the seed I could feel those doe eyes watching me from the treeline.  :roll:  Mowing will come at the end of the summer/early fall...when the goldenrod, asters, and tar-weed are blooming, but the mowing will not be a low cut so even then some of the white dutch (if it makes it through the summer) should still be ok...maybe.  :-\

I didn't spread the seed in one area (only had 10# of dutch) so I followed the terraces, planting on the upper side where the most water will catch.  I did plant a few patches, though, where I figure the moisture content of the soil may be better than other areas during dry times.  We'll see. :)

Ed

[Intheswamp]

Oh, and.....

ROLL TIDE!!!!!!!!!!!!          ROLL TIDE!!!!!!!!!!!!         ROLL TIDE!!!!!!!!!!!!         ROLL TIDE!!!!!!!!!!!!         ROLL TIDE!!!!!!!!!!!!
 That be the Crimson Tide !!!! :-D