swarm lures and new packages

[gmcharlie]

Anyone ever use a swarm lure to help anchor a new package?   just wondering if it might help encourage them to settle into a new hive,  or if its totally the wrong scents???

[JP]

If you're talking about lemongrass, I use it all the time to get bees to orient to a hive body or cardboard box. They will orient on their own but the lemongrass will possibly help them to orient faster, at least its been my experience.

Only use a small amount.


...JP

[gmcharlie]

I was refereing to some of the commercial swarm lures,  but if they are based on lemongrass it would be the same...  haven't really studied them at all.  not enough swarms around here to warrent a box sitting around waiting......   

how much do you use and how do you apply it in a new hive?

[Kathyp]

a new package, or a swarm, is usually pretty  happy to have a home.  you can put a queen excluder at the bottom of the hive between the box and bottom board so that the queen is less likely to escape.  if she's in the cage, they won't leave anyway. 

you can mix a couple of drops of lemongrass oil in sugar syrup and put it in a spray bottle.  spray it lightly on foundation or frames.  that's what i use to settle swarms.

[Irwin]

a new package, or a swarm, is usually pretty  happy to have a home.  you can put a queen excluder at the bottom of the hive between the box and bottom board so that the queen is less likely to escape.  if she's in the cage, they won't leave anyway. 

you can mix a couple of drops of lemongrass oil in sugar syrup and put it in a spray bottle.  spray it lightly on foundation or frames.  that's what i use to settle swarms.

How much sugar water with the two drops of lemongrass oil :?

[JP]

I was refereing to some of the commercial swarm lures,  but if they are based on lemongrass it would be the same...  haven't really studied them at all.  not enough swarms around here to warrent a box sitting around waiting......   

how much do you use and how do you apply it in a new hive?

A dab will do you. Small napkin w/ a dab of lemongrass, wipe it on a side or two.


...JP

[Kathyp]

1/2 sugar 1/2 water in a spray bottle.  the essential oil lemon grass is strong. one or two drops in quart is plenty.  jp's way work too.  they  just like the sugar water and it keeps them busy  :-).

[BjornBee]

Anyone ever use a swarm lure to help anchor a new package?   just wondering if it might help encourage them to settle into a new hive,  or if its totally the wrong scents???

No I have not.

The queen's scent is fine. I don't add anything that will interfer with that. I also do not want to draw other bees from other hives with the use of lemongrass, HbH, etc.

I'm kind of at a loss, as I never lost a colony from the lack of "anchoring" them. Is this a problem for perhaps those who just drop the queen in from the cage and pour in the bees?

[JP]

Bjorn, the question was asked about using lemongrass to set up a package. I don't see where it could hurt if a little is used but like you I never use it to set up a hive. I only use it when shaking swarms.



...JP

[BjornBee]

Bjorn, the question was asked about using lemongrass to set up a package. I don't see where it could hurt if a little is used but like you I never use it to set up a hive. I only use it when shaking swarms.



...JP

I realize that. I'm asking whether you are "running in" the queen, or waiting for her to be released from a cage, why add something that is going to interfer with the queens pheromones? I've never had a problem and it just seems as something not needed, and possibly detrimental.

I could see spraying down the bees with sugar syrup for less flying. I could see others releasing the queen at the same time as dumping the package (even though I do not do this). I just don't understand the "problem" that one is overcoming by adding a competing scent to the queen's, why you would possibly attract other bees by using lemongrass oil or HbH, etc.

Yes, it may not hurt, but what is it helping? I've never had to "anchor" a package, and were talking easily in excess of 500 packages over the years being installed.

I'm just scratching head...that's all... :?

[gmcharlie]

...JP
[/quote]



Yes, it may not hurt, but what is it helping? I've never had to "anchor" a package, and were talking easily in excess of 500 packages over the years being installed.

I'm just scratching head...that's all... :?

[/quote]

For some reason,  (no clue yet)  I lost 2 packages last year......  queen left in the cage for 2-3 days,  and then as she got free the whole package up and left.    They were both on plasticell,  in langstroths,  and completly new hives......    Hence my question.....  of what may help anchor them if I (and I know you  disagree)  try to do a slow release and let them work there way into the hive itself...... since these will also be TBH  I am wondering if that makes the problem of absconding worse or better??  I haven't ever tried swarm lures of any sort so I wondered if the would be "insurance"  or a detriment

[BjornBee]

...JP

Yes, it may not hurt, but what is it helping? I've never had to "anchor" a package, and were talking easily in excess of 500 packages over the years being installed.

I'm just scratching head...that's all... :?

[/quote]

For some reason,  (no clue yet)  I lost 2 packages last year......  queen left in the cage for 2-3 days,  and then as she got free the whole package up and left.    They were both on plasticell,  in langstroths,  and completly new hives......    Hence my question.....  of what may help anchor them if I (and I know you  disagree)  try to do a slow release and let them work there way into the hive itself...... since these will also be TBH  I am wondering if that makes the problem of absconding worse or better??  I haven't ever tried swarm lures of any sort so I wondered if the would be "insurance"  or a detriment
[/quote]

Bjorn adds:

Now that a problem has been defined, let me add..... :-*

As with any swarm, which is what a package is, there are many things that may cause the colony to abscond, even though to me it's not really absconding, since they are not leaving an old colony site for a better one..they are just leaving from a site they do not agree with. As with a swarm, sun alone may be cause for a colony to leave.

All of this of course changes once a colony is established with brood, a laying queen, etc. They are much less likely to leave for such "nuisance" items as sun, direction, location, etc.

And BINGO! you hit upon one of the reasons not to just run a queen into a hive when installing the bees of a package. By the time the queen gets out in 2 or 3 days, many times the bees have already started drawing comb, and recognize the hive as their home.

Keep in mind, in many studies, bees have  a preference in everything from colony size, entrance location, to light factors. Studies have shown a huge increase of swarms reissuing from swarm traps that allowed light to enter from above. They downright hate that.

To fend off some of these issues, I suggest allowing a slow release of the queen (I guess you don't like hearing that...  :-D  ), using a queen excluder so she can not leave after getting out of the cage, and not scenting them with anything (having them be under attack from others hives being attracted to the scent from the first day they are installed is not good) or doing anything that would allow them to NOT like the arrangements you provide.

[Kathyp]

i'd guess it was the foundation.  you might try just spraying sugar water on the foundation.  your problem seems common when putting new bees on new plastic foundation.  try a search and see if others have come up with good solutions.

[Michael Bush]

I had a package once that seemed intent on absconding.  They were gathering on the outside of the hive instead of staying inside.  A few drops of lemongrass oil straightened things out.

[gmcharlie]

Bjorn,  Don't mind the slow release of the queen,  its been the standard I use,   but most seem to agree in a TBH with no foundation,  that releasing her right away is the way to go........   I am guessing you don't use TBH?  if you do how do you handle holding the caged queen for a cpl days...