What are my options with weak obs hive?

[twb]

I have over wintered an obs hive of Russians.  It is a three deeps hive with bees covering about half of the top deep.  No pollen in the hive and stores are whatever they get from their feeder or from me squeezing honey thru the to vent screens.  I like the queen and would like to have her head up a large colony, but would be happy just to have them survive at this point.  Can I nuc them with frames with honey and pollen from another hive?  Can I give them capped brood with attached bees or will that cause fist fights :shock: in the hive?  Thanks for your thoughts and ideas.

[Grandpa Jim]

If you can add capped brood with bees, I think that would build them up, but I would cage the queen and release her in a few days when things settle down.  I tried adding bees once to my OH and the resident bees balled the queen for a day or more.  When they released her it was too late.  Just be sure there are enough bees to keep the brood warm.
Jim

[HAB]

Feed, Feed, and Feed a weak hive.
Just started my Wifes Observation hive on Jan 20th.  Took a while (until March 10th) to get a Queen hatched, mated, and laying.  Here's a link to the post.
http://forum.beemaster.com/index.php/topic,20561.msg156461.html#msg156461   

[Scadsobees]

Yeah, keep feed on them...they will build up slow, but they will build up.

If you have SHB around, now is a critical time to keep an eye on them.  What happens is that it is the warmest hive around (assuming indoors) and the beetles get in there, and with such a small hive can get a foothold pretty quick and under the capped brood.  Normally a weak hive would be too cold and the bees could leave that comb, but inside, well...the SHB larvae don't get chilled and can wipe out the observation hive pretty quickly once the first round or two of brood gets capped.

Rick

[Michael Bush]

I have boosted my observation hive by shaking some nurse bees into a small box with a hole just big enough for the tube to fit against and let the bees in.  Then I propped it up on a box to the right height and pushed it tight to the tube.  The homeless (and combless) nurse bees soon moved up the tube into the observation hive to boost the population.

[SlickMick]

If you have SHB around, now is a critical time to keep an eye on them.  What happens is that it is the warmest hive around (assuming indoors) and the beetles get in there, and with such a small hive can get a foothold pretty quick and under the capped brood.  Normally a weak hive would be too cold and the bees could leave that comb, but inside, well...the SHB larvae don't get chilled and can wipe out the observation hive pretty quickly once the first round or two of brood gets capped.

So how can you tell the SHB is under the capped brood? I had no idea that they did that. Is there a full discussion on this in another thread?

[Scadsobees]

So how can you tell the SHB is under the capped brood? I had no idea that they did that. Is there a full discussion on this in another thread?

In an observation hive, there are beetles and you can see beetle larvae in some open cells.  But there are spots where the bees act very agitated and run around fast on just certain areas.  They also try to start chewing on the cappings.  The capping eventually get holes and start weeping brown fluid.

In a full size hive, it it ever gets to that point, it is probably too late to save the hive.  The problem in an observation hive is that the temperature is controlled by the temps in the house, so the bees can fairly easily expand the brood nest out further than what they can really care for.
In an outdoor hive, the area that the bees can expand to is limited by the circle of comb that they can keep warm, the temps here are between 15F and 60F this time of year.

Rick

Rick

[Greg Peck]

You might try giving them some extra heat. I have a hive that has about the same amount of bees you are talking about. The queen kept laying eggs but they would not survive. I tested the temp inside the hive and it was in the 50's even inside the house. I guess it was getting to much outside air. anyway I put a lamp behind it with a 40 watt bulb in it and it brought the temp up to 80. The eggs stated hatching and I now have about a half frame of capped brood. They should start emerging soon. Just make sure you dont make it too hot for them. They should be able to start getting pollen. Mine are getting it from some where already.

[twb]

After all that good advice I thought I'd better tell you what I did....none of the above :roll:.  Howz that for a sting under the eye :).

I had to clean out the obs hive anyway so I placed the one frame half filled with bees and queen into a nuc with pollen and honey and place it by the tube exit outdoors. Today, our first flying weather since, I put the nuc in place of a hive with quite a few bees and moved that hive to a new stand.  So, will the foragers coming back to a strange hive at their location ball and kill the queen?  How long shall I give them before I sneak a peek?  Thanks again for your thoughts.

[Michael Bush]

>I had to clean out the obs hive anyway so I placed the one frame half filled with bees and queen into a nuc with pollen and honey and place it by the tube exit outdoors. Today, our first flying weather since, I put the nuc in place of a hive with quite a few bees and moved that hive to a new stand.  So, will the foragers coming back to a strange hive at their location ball and kill the queen?

Odds are they will ball her.  Odds are they won't kill her.  Nothing is a sure thing.  :)

>  How long shall I give them before I sneak a peek?

Longer is probably better as opening is more likely to cause them to ball her.  Smoke, I've found, though is helpful in such situations. Even if you don't open it up.

[twb]

I couldn't stand waiting any longer.  The weather is going to get nasty soon and I just had to know.  So, today I had a look and found quite a few bees in the nuc.  That was encouraging.  They all acted very calmly.  I am thinking good thoughts as I pull frames and on the third one I see the original queen doing her "majestic" walk.  Yes!  To top it off I saw her poke her head into a cell up to her thorax and since I have seen her do that many times in the obs hive I kept watching and, just as I hoped, she stuffed her abdomen into the cell to lay an egg.  Very cool!  It worked.  A hive is saved.  Pretty amazing.

[Grandpa Jim]

Good save!  Alway great when a plan works and you see that queen doing her thing.  Jim