Question on burr comb between frames.

[mick]

I added my second super a week ago and have examined the new frames today. All are about 30% drawn.

The bees are joining the bottom of the new frames to the top of the old. I want to know if I should clean all of it off of every frame in the top and bottom or just clean a bit off here and there, or what?

All were really cemented to the corresponding frame in the bottom.

Is the aim to have each frame free of burr comb by cleaning it off regularly?

[Finsky]

I added my second super a week ago and have examined the new frames today. All are about 30% drawn.

The bees are joining the bottom of the new frames to the top of the old. I want to know if I should clean all of it off of every frame in the top and bottom or just clean a bit off here and there, or what?

All were really cemented to the corresponding frame in the bottom.

Is the aim to have each frame free of burr comb by cleaning it off regularly?

First, feature to make burr is inheritable. Some do more and some less.

If they bees glue your hive parts with burr all the time you have too large gaps.  Free gaps need to bee 10 mm and not more. Would you measure the gaps?  ORRR gaps are too narrow. Bees stuck all gaps where they cannot go through, under 5 mm.

There is no idea to clean bur all the time. It needs only that bees do not crush between hive parts when you work. Fat queen walk often on the bottom of frame and it is not rare that  queen disappears after you close the hive. If you see the queen it is better to put her in the place you have allready inspected.

And one thing. Bees need space to build drone combs. If you arrange to them a free frame area where they can build combs so they do not try to build them in every  place.  Cut 1/3 from foundation and let them make drones. If you give then area in 2 frames I think that they are more satisfied.

.We have found here that if the upper batten of frame is too narrow, bees continue wax over gap. Upper list need to be 28 mm wide. If it is 22 mm it makes troubles.
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[ian michael davison]

Hi all
Mick: Check your hives to see that the correct bee space is there. To little and they fill up the gap to much and they build  extra comb. With the correct space burr comb is normaly minimal. (6-8mm between top and bottom of frames in different boxes)

Regards Ian

[Jack Parr]

and the bees are sticking it to U.

On my recent inspections of my hives I did encounter that comb building between the upper and lower frames, in the brood nest.

The concept of the brood nest must be understood. The bees like to keep it compact and tend to expand brood rearing from the center of the " ball " or cluster, outwards, up, or, down, left and right or, on the sides. Got you confused :?:  :?:  :?:  

You should have noticed that if the bulk of the brood nest area is in the lower box, frames mostly filled with brood, the expansion is of course upwards and outwards from the center and in the case of the upper frames the brood will be on the bottom of the frame, usually in the center. If the brood nest or cluster area is in the upper box than the expansion is downwards. Bear in mind that the bees like to keep the brood area compact and if there is some extra space between upper and power frames they will fill it with comb and the queen will lay eggs there. In my case there were drone cells ocupying the space and the brood area is in the upper box of a two deep setup. I pulled the upper  frames out and scraped the comb off, and of course destroyed the brood. I also inserted a frame of partially drawn comb in the middle of the brood area. We are in some mild weather where I live and I don't think there is a risk in adding the frame into the brood area at this time.  

To keep the bee space between boxes at optimum you would have to measure your equipment, boxes and frames to see if you have the correct space. I have observed that there is a difference in the thickness of the top bars between wood and plastic. To have a perfect setup you would have to adjust the frame rest ledge to accomodate either wood or plastic and use only one, or the other,  in a given box.

There was a posting by Jim Fisher, recently, on the subject of non standarization of hive equipment.

Hope I've made some sense here. :)

[mick]

Thanks for the advice guys. I have done some reading of previous posts on similar topics as well. Jacko theres a lot to understand in your post :!: in gunna mull it over.

My real problem is everytime I am going to remove a frame from the top super for inspection, I am going to have to break the seal that is formed along the entire frame. Its either remove it every time or put it back in exactly the same place, so it fits together like an egg shell. I think second option would be the correct one, am I on the right track?

In my case I reckon its thus.

I notice some comb building on the inside of the lid too where I scraped it al off last week. My bees are building that burr comb as though the second super doesnt exist. Their memory is telling them to build in the same spaces, those ratbag bees, while the rest are going to town on the new super frames.

I have all of the new frames centered and touching each other so the gap between frames is as small as it can be, the end spaces, when combined would allow me to use 9 frames. Would this be a good idea?

I notice a few new bees getting some rays on the sundeck(landing ramp) this seems to be common to my bees, they have done this before. Lots of pollen still going on. Also they are up at the crack of dawn, even when its cool. This seems to be more noticable since the new super was put on.

[Finsky]

My real problem is everytime I am going to remove a frame from the top super for inspection, I am going to have to break the seal that is formed along the entire frame.

Sounds like your bees have extra good burr building instinct. It is normal that if bees build foundations and at same time they make a lot of bur.

Did you bees are feral origin?

You reveal the problem when you order  queens from commercial breeder.  It is slow way.  You should really find another beekeeper so you may see how his "business" goes on.

I have also thinked that if I jump here to airplane and come to see Australian beekeeping.  :P  I need a hot place where I can drop my fats about 10 kg. No beer nor food. :P

[Michael Bush]

>I have all of the new frames centered and touching each other so the gap between frames is as small as it can be, the end spaces, when combined would allow me to use 9 frames. Would this be a good idea?

What kind of hive?  Langstroth?  10 frame?

>My real problem is everytime I am going to remove a frame from the top super for inspection, I am going to have to break the seal that is formed along the entire frame.

Pry the box up and use the hive tool to pry the top bar of each frame in the box below DOWN.  It goes quickly with some practice.

[mick]

Finsky, they were a swarm that escaped from the back neighbours backyard. Id been there for 7 years and never had a clue they were behind my house. DONT come here for a holiday unless you want to put on another 10kg! Too much food and beer here! No drop fats here, just make more!!

Michael, the gear im using can be seen at http://www.redpaths.com.au .

"Our "Alliance" Full Depth (244mm deep) Lockcorner wooden bee boxes are made from pine 22.5mm thick and from premium grade timber. It is kilned dried to ensure the least posible movement in the timber. When well painted they will last for many years.

So I dunno if they langstroth, I think they are.

I get the prising the botom board down bit. I can handle that no problemo.

I need a local lady beekeeper to help me  :roll:

[Finsky]

Finsky, they were a swarm that escaped from the back neighbours backyard. Id been there for 7 years and never had a clue they were behind my house. :

So they are real feral. You should  get new commercial queens to your hives.

DONT come here for a holiday unless you want to put on another 10kg! Too much food and beer here! No drop fats here, just make more!!:

Thanks for warning.

[mick]

I think I have more "brace" comb than "burr comb".

Im going for the 2 brood boxes, then 2 honey supers look. I think that is the go for me and the bees.

I plan to replace the bottom box as I did a lousy job of building it and nailed the bottom board to it which I now know is wrong.

It will be an interesting job over the next couple of weeks. I really enjoy buildinig the boxes. This one will be perect.

Im waiting for my registration to come through. $11.50 per year to the Government which is ok by me. Then I get to paint a number on the hive!!

[Finsky]

Do you know what and where bees are foraging?

[mick]

Hi Finsky,

They are foraging on the Gum Trees that are flowering at the moment, some Banksias and Wattles. thees plenty of capeweed around and people flower gardens. There is an abundance of food for them. Where we are there are flowering native trees all year round. I have a huge Mallee Gum in my yard that has been flowering the last 3 months and when the sun is out the buzz from the tree can be heard 20 feet away.



This is part of the wetlands 500 metres from the hive to the east.



They live in the top right hand corner of the above photo.



Behind my house is that.



More of the wetlands



Feeding on Jasmine



Feeding on one of my trees that I havent ID yet, possible a native frangipani.


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