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Author Topic: Temperature inside a beehive  (Read 1323 times)

Offline Acebird

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Re: Temperature inside a beehive
« Reply #20 on: April 16, 2018, 08:24:40 am »
IMO You should have frames in both boxes, entrance reduced to 3/4 width and if you are going to mountain camp put it on top of the second box.  A two inch thick foam board on top of the cover.  leave it there until both boxes are drawn and full of bees.  The bees will stay the warmest if they can cluster in a sphere.
So my instruction would be to fill the top box with frames and put it under the lower box (reversal).  Do not leave empty space where the bees have access.
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Offline iddee

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Re: Temperature inside a beehive
« Reply #21 on: April 16, 2018, 08:31:15 am »
The 15th member.... When you open your hives, you will find a cluster of bees hanging comb from the inner lid. There will be no bees on the frames, other than maybe a few protecting the queen. Bees will never draw comb on frames when open space is available.
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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Offline The15thMember

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Re: Temperature inside a beehive
« Reply #22 on: April 16, 2018, 01:46:25 pm »
I wouldn't worry about insulating them,  but I would get rid of the sugar block and feed them 1:1 warm syrup instead.   It is not easy for them to consume the sugar block.

I would suggest putting the inner cover over the bottom box with bees and then inverting a jar of warm syrup over the inner cover hole.   then the empty 2nd hive box and top cover.   Make two jars of syrup and keep one in the house,   every 12 hours sway out the jar on the hive for a new one.   

The bees will keep themselves warm if you provide them with food that is easily consumed (warm syrup, they will not take cold syrup)  they have no brood yet that they need to keep warm.  Since you are in NC, the low temps will only be temporary and sporadic.  Syrup will encourage them to draw wax,  sugar alone will not as it requires them  effort to process.    I have used this many times here in NY in March with newbies and it works great.   Just keep them with syrup they can consume 24/7.   Since you are using mediums you will need to keep any eye on their growth and add the second box quickly.  I always use deeps for brood boxes.

Thank you so much, Rob!  I'll do exactly that.

The 15th member.... When you open your hives, you will find a cluster of bees hanging comb from the inner lid. There will be no bees on the frames, other than maybe a few protecting the queen. Bees will never draw comb on frames when open space is available.
 
I've been concerned about this, and if I do it like Rob said, I'll avoid that problem too, because they won't be able to get to the upper box.  Perfect.   :happy:

IMO You should have frames in both boxes, entrance reduced to 3/4 width and if you are going to mountain camp put it on top of the second box.  A two inch thick foam board on top of the cover.  leave it there until both boxes are drawn and full of bees.  The bees will stay the warmest if they can cluster in a sphere.
So my instruction would be to fill the top box with frames and put it under the lower box (reversal).  Do not leave empty space where the bees have access.
Thanks for the advice, Ace.  It's going to get up to almost 80 degrees on Wednesday here, so I'm going to go with Rob's method.  Adding insulation is just feeling a little overkill to me.  But thank you for the input, it's good to hear different opinions on the subject.   
I come from under the hill, and under the hills and over the hills my paths led.  And through the air, I am she that walks unseen.

Offline iddee

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Re: Temperature inside a beehive
« Reply #23 on: April 16, 2018, 01:52:58 pm »
Yes, Rob's suggestions are always spot on. Anything to keep them from accessing open space will work.
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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Offline Acebird

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Re: Temperature inside a beehive
« Reply #24 on: April 16, 2018, 02:53:43 pm »
Yes, Rob's suggestions are always spot on.
Except Rob admits he uses deeps and the OP is using mediums.  Two mediums would be more like one deep.  28 degrees to 80 is a huge temperature swing.  That is the kind of thing that can flood a hive with syrup when the air in an inverted jar expands going from 28 to 80.  You can heat the syrup up but at 28 degrees the bees are clustered and they are not feeding.  Don't add the feed until the air temperature warms up.  The insulation is a choice but it does slow down the temperature changes in both directions and it would help with the loss of heat from warm syrup when you feed.
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Offline The15thMember

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Re: Temperature inside a beehive
« Reply #25 on: April 16, 2018, 03:34:03 pm »
Ok, so I'm cooking up my plan here....  If it's the air in the jar that causes the expansion issue (which makes sense since the sugar doesn't change temperature as quickly) what if I use Ziploc baggie feeders instead?  I have some Imrie shims, so I could use a shim to facilitate enough space for the baggie, and then I could just remove the 2nd box entirely (or fill it with frames, whatever you guys think is better).  So I'd have box, shim and baggie, inner cover, outer cover.  I'd still warm up the syrup of course.  What do you guys think of that?   
I come from under the hill, and under the hills and over the hills my paths led.  And through the air, I am she that walks unseen.

Offline iddee

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Re: Temperature inside a beehive
« Reply #26 on: April 16, 2018, 03:46:18 pm »
If the shim is 3/4 inch or more, you will still have wild comb. NO OPEN SPACE means just that. It would be better to just remove the feed until the air is warm enough for them to take it. ""55 F. or higher" After all, what is the need for it if they can't access it?
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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Offline Acebird

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Re: Temperature inside a beehive
« Reply #27 on: April 16, 2018, 04:18:42 pm »
My point exactly.
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Offline The15thMember

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Re: Temperature inside a beehive
« Reply #28 on: April 16, 2018, 06:41:44 pm »
Alright, so I was going to go out and put some warm syrup in the hive, but as I was getting suited up I realized that it was REALLY cold and windy and I was worried about going in there and potentially breaking up the cluster.  So I cut up an old foam mattress pad and put some insulation between the outer and inner covers.  Tomorrow it'll be warmer, and I have to go in and get the queen cage out anyway, so I'll probably put some warm syrup in for them then.  Thanks to everybody for all the info.  It really helped me make a decision I felt comfortable with.  And sorry again for hijacking your thread, Lizzie, I really didn't mean too.   :embarassed:     
I come from under the hill, and under the hills and over the hills my paths led.  And through the air, I am she that walks unseen.

Offline Acebird

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Re: Temperature inside a beehive
« Reply #29 on: April 16, 2018, 09:26:10 pm »
So I cut up an old foam mattress pad and put some insulation between the outer and inner covers.     
Something you might want to remember.  Insulation has the exact same R value no matter where it is placed, inside, outside or in between.  Place it where it is easiest to install or take away.
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Offline Robo

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Re: Temperature inside a beehive
« Reply #30 on: April 16, 2018, 09:54:57 pm »
Ok, so I'm cooking up my plan here....  If it's the air in the jar that causes the expansion issue (which makes sense since the sugar doesn't change temperature as quickly) what if I use Ziploc baggie feeders instead?  I have some Imrie shims, so I could use a shim to facilitate enough space for the baggie, and then I could just remove the 2nd box entirely (or fill it with frames, whatever you guys think is better).  So I'd have box, shim and baggie, inner cover, outer cover.  I'd still warm up the syrup of course.  What do you guys think of that?

I have only ever had expansion issues when using plastic,  glass has never been a problem.   The purpose of the inverted jar is that the bees can cluster right on it and feed.   Baggie feeders require then to break cluster.  If the syrup with warm enough for consumption, they will consume faster than the expansion.
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Offline Acebird

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Re: Temperature inside a beehive
« Reply #31 on: April 17, 2018, 09:29:12 am »
If the syrup with warm enough for consumption, they will consume faster than the expansion.
In our area we can count on the cluster being right on the inner cover this time of the year.  I am not confident that is what happens in NC.  If it does I agree with you the consumption could be faster then expansion.  If the cluster is one box down you are going to have something different.
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Offline iddee

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Re: Temperature inside a beehive
« Reply #32 on: April 17, 2018, 10:03:00 am »
Why would anyone be feeding sugar water in the cold when the hive has a full super of honey above the cluster? If they do that, they deserve to lose the bees.
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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Offline The15thMember

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Re: Temperature inside a beehive
« Reply #33 on: April 17, 2018, 10:40:15 am »
In our area we can count on the cluster being right on the inner cover this time of the year.  I am not confident that is what happens in NC.  If it does I agree with you the consumption could be faster then expansion.  If the cluster is one box down you are going to have something different.
If it helps, when I put the insulation in there yesterday, I peeked in the hole in the inner cover and they did not appear to be clustered up there. 
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Offline eltalia

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Re: Temperature inside a beehive
« Reply #34 on: April 17, 2018, 07:51:30 pm »
Why would anyone be feeding sugar water in the cold when the hive has a full super of
honey above the cluster? If they do that, they deserve to lose the bees.

I do not comment on feeding per se, Wally.
I make an exception just this once.

"they deserve to lose the bees."
Ditto.


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Offline The15thMember

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Re: Temperature inside a beehive
« Reply #35 on: April 18, 2018, 12:33:42 pm »
So I went in the hive yesterday and switched out their sugar bricks for liquid syrup, as well as taking the queen cages out.  Both hives had lots of bees festooning from the top bars and they were drawing new white wax, and seemingly straight on the frames!  It was so exciting!   
« Last Edit: April 18, 2018, 12:50:12 pm by The15thMember »
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Offline iddee

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Re: Temperature inside a beehive
« Reply #36 on: April 18, 2018, 08:01:24 pm »
Good deal. Keep us posted.
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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