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Offline jvalentour

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GOP DOUBLE-CROSSING TRAITORS
« on: February 18, 2015, 11:47:37 pm »
A great article from Ann Coulter. 
I don't think these guys in Washington read the newspapers or conservative web sites.  Or the polls telling them that the tax payers do not want illegal immigrants to have the same rights as citizens of America. 
Enjoy!

http://www.anncoulter.com/columns/2015-02-18.html

Offline Eric Bosworth

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Re: GOP DOUBLE-CROSSING TRAITORS
« Reply #1 on: May 07, 2015, 12:18:44 pm »
Interesting article... I have to agree that Eric Cantor's primary defeat was the greatest upset since the Miracle on Ice. That said, I have mixed feelings on immigration. I think that immigration is actually good for our economy. The problem is all of our programs like the earned income tax credit and our health care laws requiring health care for people who can't afford it. This may sound heartless but I believe our health care would be better without these laws and I think that private charity rather than government mandates would pick up the slack.
All political power comes from the barrel of a gun. The communist party must command all the guns; that way, no guns can ever be used to command the party. ---Mao Tse Tung

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote. ---Benjamin Franklin

Offline OldMech

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Re: GOP DOUBLE-CROSSING TRAITORS
« Reply #2 on: May 07, 2015, 07:15:40 pm »
Immigration...
    How many people who live in the US today have ancestors that came to this country from another country?  Unless your an American Indian (And even then)  some of your ancestors were once immigrants.
   
   The Plaque on the statue of liberty;

Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

   We are a country who draws its great strength from diversity. I believe in immigration. I believe the process is too hard right now.
   It should be easy.
   Can you speak English?
   Will you work and pay your taxes?
   Will you stand back to back with all Americans to defend your new country?

  If the answer is yes to all three.. let them in!  If they fail to comply with ANY of the three at any time, send them back where they came from.
      So long as the process to gain entry is straight forward and simple, we would not have illegal immigrants.
  No, illegal immigrants do not need tax beaks, no we will not be "forced" to hire bilingual teachers, and put two languages on street signs etc...   Speak the language, and earn your keep, and I am proud to stand back to back with you defending this country. I dont care your color, religion etc...

 m   I remember my Great grandfather telling the story of coming to America from Germany...  The way he told the story, made SEEING the statue of liberty "appear" through the fog easy in my own minds eye..  I remember the story well, it gave me goosebumps when I was just a little cutter...
   I have read the accounts of the other side of my family coming to this country from Ireland...  so I am Irish and German.. "WHO" am I to dislike immigrants?
   My Grandfather's Liberator was shot down over the Hamburg ball bearing plant..  He survived, and FOUND relatives, who helped him and the surviving crew sneak back into friendly territory..  If they had not, I would not be here.   I served, My son SERVES in the Army..   Who are ANY of us to dislike immigrants?   
   If an immigrant thinks his old country was better, he should go back. If he says he will not fight for this country, he does not belong here. If he rudely speaks his native language while in public, he should be loaded up and returned...
  I dont mind immigrants at all, I AM them!  But I dont like supporting them, and I dont like wondering what they are snickering about and pointing my way while speaking a language I do not understand.   I would not do that to them, I do not expect them to do it to me. Become a citizen.. and be PROUD of it, or get out.
39 Hives and growing.  Havent found the end of the comfort zone yet.

Offline gww

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Re: GOP DOUBLE-CROSSING TRAITORS
« Reply #3 on: May 07, 2015, 08:45:12 pm »
Eric
Your post sounds like bush senior,  a tousand points of light, a kinder and gentler nation, read my lips.  If it were true that the private would pick up the slack, that would be great.  Perhaps they are trying but also aparently there was still a need for some laws covering medicine.
gww

Online iddee

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Re: GOP DOUBLE-CROSSING TRAITORS
« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2015, 10:33:45 am »
Old mech, think "illegal immigrants". I hate the first half, whether it includes the second half or not. Illegals, whether immigrants, or natural born thieves, I have no room for them.
I agree immigration should be easier, but with the same government benefits our forefathers had. NONE, but the freedom to pursue. Many of our ancestors starved and froze, that is the price to pay for immigration. The right to pursue, not a guaranteed life on easy street.

gww, to pack and leave your birth country, things must have been very bad. The new country is likely to be hard, but that may well still be an improvement. The new country has no reason to shower you with free gifts when you have done nothing to earn them.
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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Offline gww

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Re: GOP DOUBLE-CROSSING TRAITORS
« Reply #5 on: May 10, 2015, 11:25:57 am »
iddee
Quote
The new country is likely to be hard, but that may well still be an improvement. The new country has no reason to shower you with free gifts when you have done nothing to earn them.

When talking of no garrantee of happyness but a garrantee of the right to pursue it, that should be wether you are an immigrant or born here.  True history how ever has people that are already here making laws to stop an immigrant from those oppertunities. To invite poeple in and then make them differrent then the poeple that are here can't be correct.  Look at the laws that were made against the chineese when they were invited to do the dirty work cause their labor was needed.  Every group (not just chineese) were treated in the same fasion.  They came cause for some it was better then where they where.  And they did the work to better themselves just like when you are born here you should have to do.  But it is hard to justifie that it is a good humanitarian thing that sevices be provided for things that are beyond an unlucky individuals control and that helping them is a good thing for sociaty but not if didn't live here for 200 years. If a case can be made that it is the humane thing to do, then it would be a humane thing and not base only humane depending on who you are. Nobody says you should get things that poeple who are here already don't get but if you come here for opertunity and people want you here and let you in, then your opertunity should be the same as the comunity that you live in.  It should not be the goal to make two communities, the haves and the have nots.  If that were the case, we could have just kept slavery and we wouldn't need immigrants.

I may be a bit radical in my presentation style cause I have a hard time communicating in writing what I am trying to say.  I am not trying to start a war of words cause I am not good enough at that to have a chance. I am more trying to present a veiw of general fairness.  What is fair for one should be fair for all based on each individuals actions and not based on where you are born.

Just my thoughts
gww

Offline kathyp

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Re: GOP DOUBLE-CROSSING TRAITORS
« Reply #6 on: May 10, 2015, 12:50:44 pm »
I wrote something on this not to long ago, and I'll try to give the RD version here.   :wink: 

 no one has the right to illegally enter this country or any other.  The moment you have done that, you have broken the law.  Why would we want people here who have no regard for the law?

However.....we have many people in this country who have been here years, been productive, raised families, and after their first law breaking of entering illegally, have been crime free.  It is not practical and probably not desirable, to round those folks up and send them back home.  We do not need to have amnesty, but we do need to address this issue with some kind of practical plan.

We need to end both citizenship by birth, and chain immigration. 

This last, I think, is the most important.  The immigrants we take now, even legally, are not the same as my great grandmother with her one suite case and dreams of a better life.  When she came over, she was probably 14 although the ships manifest said 16.  She told the story of stepping off the boat and being so afraid because she had little money and no job or place to stay.  She and her sister went to work in the clothing factories in Chicago, which was their destination (another story) and managed to survive and eventually, thrive.

What they did can't even be done today.  The place they rented would not be fit for habitation now, and the rents reflect the regulations.  As minors, they could not work as they did due to regulations. 

Even if it could be done, we have a different breed of immigrant now.  Most come from failed socialist and dictator run countries.  They are not looking for freedom from oppression or a chance to succeed.  They are looking for successful socialism.  For the moment, they find it here.  They step off the boat and are handed every kind of aid package you can imagine.  They don't have to learn the language, and interpreter is provided.  They don't have to earn a living, they get a welfare package and food stamps.  Unless they decide to become citizens, and many don't, they don't have to learn the constitution, or any history.

Many of our "immigrants" are refugees that tend to clump together.  They do not, and do not intend to, integrate into American society.  We have a Latino movement particularly in the SW that thinks they should own that part of the country because it was "taken from them".  Who would have thought we'd stand for the flag of another country being paraded through our streets by a bunch of thug law breakers?

To those who say we need an immigrant work force, fine, then have a program that brings in what we need.  To those who say we need to share what we have with the rest of the world, fine, then let them come experience our right to succeed or fail, without sucking off the ever shrinking number of people trying to support the welfare class.

They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline Eric Bosworth

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Re: GOP DOUBLE-CROSSING TRAITORS
« Reply #7 on: May 11, 2015, 08:27:04 am »
Kathy,

I have to say that your post was great Your grandmothers experience was very good at explaining the unbelievable truth about sweatshops.

My father talks about when he was a kid working for a potato farmer. When they started enacting all sorts of child labor laws it wasn't the farmer that was hurt it was the kids working for him that suffered. That leads very well into minimum wage hurting the very workers it is designed to help...

What Anthony Davies does not say in that video is that there are many jobs that do not require a college education. Without a minimum wage an employer can hire somebody directly out of high school and train them to do the job they need for very low wages. Once the employee has been trained the employer can either pay higher wages or the employee can work for a competitor for higher wages. Either way minimum wage hurt the employee because they now have a skill and didn't go into serious college debt to get it.
All of this goes back to immigration.


All political power comes from the barrel of a gun. The communist party must command all the guns; that way, no guns can ever be used to command the party. ---Mao Tse Tung

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote. ---Benjamin Franklin

Offline OldMech

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Re: GOP DOUBLE-CROSSING TRAITORS
« Reply #8 on: May 11, 2015, 11:37:51 am »
Old mech, think "illegal immigrants". I hate the first half, whether it includes the second half or not. Illegals, whether immigrants, or natural born thieves, I have no room for them.
I agree immigration should be easier, but with the same government benefits our forefathers had. NONE, but the freedom to pursue. Many of our ancestors starved and froze, that is the price to pay for immigration. The right to pursue, not a guaranteed life on easy street.

gww, to pack and leave your birth country, things must have been very bad. The new country is likely to be hard, but that may well still be an improvement. The new country has no reason to shower you with free gifts when you have done nothing to earn them.

   I agree completely.. Illegal means they need removed..    Even up here in the midwest we have them...   A nearby hog processing plant...    It was "announced" that they (workers) would all be checked by local authorities as part of a county wide crack down...   the plant had to close two shifts because none of the workers showed up....  How is it possible THAT MANY illegal immigrants are this far into the US without being caught and deported?
   
   As I said, I dont care where your from. If your here legally and proud to be an American, I'll stand with you. If your here illegally, I dont CARE if you have been here ten years and have a family here, then you need deported, along with the family..  those are chances YOU took when you came here illegally.  But the child was BORN here! TO an illegal parrent, which makes them illegal as well.   Life is not fair. It never has been, and never will be.  Fair is a myth spoken of in children's stories, not real life.
   If you have a job, are working, making a living and supporting your family.. then fill out the paperwork, take the test, and become a citizen in good standing.
   I do support re structuring the process of citizenship. It should not be impossible to come here...
   As far as having jobs when they DO come here...   they do, because they are willing to work..  Even my OWN children looked at me like I was an idiot when I said WalMart and McDonalds are hiring...
   "I will never degrade myself to working there!"
   "You would rather degrade yourself by digging through the McDonalds dumpster to find food to eat?"
   They both learned this lesson the hard way.
   There are jobs if your not to proud to do them.  There would be more jobs if the illegals were sent back across the border.   If the company that hired them was held accountable, the opportunity would no longer be there, and less would come here, and cause the problems they do..   
   As Iddee said.. in the town that plant is in.. the crime rate has skyrocketed SO MUCH that the housing market is now DEAD and people are moving AWAY from that town as fast as they can.  I can take you into a dozen stores in that town, where the owners/workers do not speak english, and they have no intention of learning it..
   As far as I am concerned, a Bus should pull up, and the whole lot of them loaded up and hauled back across the border..  this isn't Mexico.. if you are so proud of the flag you have hanging in your front window of your store, and the language you speak, then why are you here? Take that pride and go back where it means something.
39 Hives and growing.  Havent found the end of the comfort zone yet.

Offline gww

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Re: GOP DOUBLE-CROSSING TRAITORS
« Reply #9 on: May 11, 2015, 12:43:37 pm »
As far as jobs go, I would shovel poop or clean toilets and not be imbarressed.  As far as companys hiring illiegals, why is it always the person that is doing the work for some one who always had to suffer.  If they put a couple of the company guys in jail then there wouldn't be the draw for all the illiegals to come and be disrupted later.  In stead the company busses them up and the goverment busses them back and the company busses new ones up.  The immigates that are being bussed up are working and not comming for free things that america gives them.  If they companys didn't promote this and the american poeple didn't look the other way cause they like cheep chicken, there might not be as many people to be deported.
gww

Offline kathyp

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Re: GOP DOUBLE-CROSSING TRAITORS
« Reply #10 on: May 11, 2015, 06:32:01 pm »
I agree with much of what you all have said about illegals, but I think the rounding up and exporting them all part will not only not happen, but probably would not be to our benefit in the long run.  We had the same thing happen here as in the hog plant.  it was announced the INS was going to crack down and that year we had berries rot in the field. 

We need a good worker program like we used to have.  People came and did work, then went home until the next season.  I guarantee that no one else is going to pick the fields.

  For those here we could do a thing where they had a couple of months to come forward and register, have a background check, prove employment and how long they'd been here, and then pay all that they owe in fees, etc. as if they had come in legally.  This accomplishes 2 things.  it lets us know who is here, and it lets us boot without pause any who don't come forward and are picked up for anything after the registration period.  It would be fair, and less disruptive...and practical.
You have families there that are multiple generations and the kids and grand-kids don't know that the originals were not legal.  I can't see booting those kids.

I think we also miss something else, and that is that much of our trouble is not with illegals, but with the many we bring her legally for "humanitarian" reasons.  we have a large refugee Muslim population that is spawning next gen terrorists.  We are importing people from south and central america, and they are the ones in search of working socialism.  We are about to import Syrians, and likely others that are fleeing ISIS, but we are not bringing the Christians.  We are bringing the Muslims again. 

Our experience so far tell us that these are the people least likely to want to integrate into American society, and most likely to demand society change to accommodate them.
They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline OldMech

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Re: GOP DOUBLE-CROSSING TRAITORS
« Reply #11 on: May 11, 2015, 11:33:56 pm »
i would not have any argument with that..   Kind of like a work visa..  lasts for a set amount of time.
   And your right, no one else will do the work...  thats another issue that needs dealt with..   
39 Hives and growing.  Havent found the end of the comfort zone yet.

Offline kathyp

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Re: GOP DOUBLE-CROSSING TRAITORS
« Reply #12 on: May 12, 2015, 12:04:37 am »
We had the Bracero program and it worked very well.  It was killed by a combination of union pressure, and the usual leftist loons who were constantly after the workers to strike. Chavez was one of them.  Of course, people don't know what a piece of crap he was, so they have made him a hero along with other leftists of the time.  It is true that some of the living and work conditions were not great, but I remember the same in poor white areas too.  It was the way things were before we decided that everyone needed tax payer funded AC and condos. 

anyway, it's a program that could be brought back and tweaked.  It worked well and there was never a shortage of takers.  With higher farm wages, there'd be even more to come.  The dollar goes a long ways at home.
They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline Eric Bosworth

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Re: GOP DOUBLE-CROSSING TRAITORS
« Reply #13 on: May 12, 2015, 08:57:06 am »
"no one else will do the work..."
That is exactly one of the points in Ben Powell's video Myths About Immigration.
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Offline jayj200

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Re: GOP DOUBLE-CROSSING TRAITORS
« Reply #14 on: May 12, 2015, 10:24:43 am »
for what they want to pay

Offline kathyp

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Re: GOP DOUBLE-CROSSING TRAITORS
« Reply #15 on: May 12, 2015, 11:26:39 am »
Quote
"no one else will do the work..."
That is exactly one of the points in Ben Powell's video Myths About Immigration.

It depends on the industry, but it is accurate in somethings like agriculture.  Perhaps Ben needs to get out of the city.

Quote
for what they want to pay

the implication being that if they payed more, it would attract american workers?

When it comes to agriculture, not only will Americans not do it (white or black) but they are not wanted.  I have two friends with commercial farms and neither will hire unaccented americans any more.  in the past, those people lasted a day or two after all the effort and paperwork of being hired.  they were to soft.  in addition, they were the ones who would immediately put in the workers comp filling for back injury etc. They don't know how to do the work and they are not willing to do it.

As for the pay, several years ago there was a move to pay farm workers minimum wage.  the workers stopped it.  a skilled farm worker, and the work they do does require skill, can make well over minimum wage being payed by the work, rather than by the hour. 

we pay people not to work.  if you want Americans to take jobs like that you have to end extended unemployment, cry baby injury claims, etc.  you would have to protect the businesses from the workers. 
think that will happen?

not to worry.  with the current programs, the immigrant population, legal or not, will soon be as lazy.   
They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline Eric Bosworth

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Re: GOP DOUBLE-CROSSING TRAITORS
« Reply #16 on: May 12, 2015, 09:58:14 pm »
Unfortunately the politicians follow  the idea of keep there belly's full and their minds empty. The media fails to inform the people of what you said Kathy.
All political power comes from the barrel of a gun. The communist party must command all the guns; that way, no guns can ever be used to command the party. ---Mao Tse Tung

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote. ---Benjamin Franklin