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BEEKEEPING LEARNING CENTER => GENERAL BEEKEEPING - MAIN POSTING FORUM. => Topic started by: Fishing-Nut on July 30, 2017, 06:25:56 pm

Title: What are y'all doing for the #!@#$& hive Beetles?
Post by: Fishing-Nut on July 30, 2017, 06:25:56 pm
What's working for y'all for keeping the hive Beetles in check? Noticed way more than I want to see in a few hives today.
Title: Re: What are y'all doing for the #!@#$& hive Beetles?
Post by: iddee on July 30, 2017, 06:28:27 pm
Get them out of the shade. I have about 40 hives in full sun and may find 3 beetles in the whole yard.
Title: Re: What are y'all doing for the #!@#$& hive Beetles?
Post by: Fishing-Nut on July 30, 2017, 07:19:43 pm
Does nc have a bad problem with Beetles? I know some states done have them as bad as others. But these hives are pretty shaded. On the river bank at the house. If I moved them would I need to inch them around or what would happen if I just picked them up and moved them 20 or 30 yards at one time?
Title: Re: What are y'all doing for the #!@#$& hive Beetles?
Post by: iddee on July 30, 2017, 07:24:29 pm
NC and/or SC is where the beetles initially entered the US. Yes, we have plenty.

I would move the 2 stronger ones, then wait about a week and move the last one. It may be as strong as the other two once the foragers take up with it.
Title: Re: What are y'all doing for the #!@#$& hive Beetles?
Post by: paus on July 30, 2017, 07:27:30 pm
I have the same problem with three hives that are in the shade from about 10:30  every morning.  I am using oil pans and with these hives have limited success, but much better since I put the oil in.  NOW I HAVE DONE THIS ONCE AND IT WORKED.  Move the hives at night and place some brush or tree limbs or branches over the front of hive, open them up and every day remove some of the brush.
Title: Re: What are y'all doing for the #!@#$& hive Beetles?
Post by: Fishing-Nut on July 30, 2017, 08:00:27 pm
Dang idee. Are you spying on me or something? There is 3 hives down there. 2 strong ones and one small one. How'd you know?? :shocked:
Title: Re: What are y'all doing for the #!@#$& hive Beetles?
Post by: iddee on July 30, 2017, 08:44:50 pm
Newbee luck.  I just started keeping these little ladies about 41 years ago.   :cool:   :cheesy:
Title: Re: What are y'all doing for the #!@#$& hive Beetles?
Post by: GSF on August 01, 2017, 04:09:03 pm
I would think that beetles are like bees in that some years are better than others.
Title: Re: What are y'all doing for the #!@#$& hive Beetles?
Post by: RSWOODBEE on August 02, 2017, 11:37:26 am
I'm using beetle baffles,screen bottoms #6,.035 and oil tray.On these hives none or very few have been noticed. Hives with out them have plenty beetles. Hives part sun and shade.
Title: Re: What are y'all doing for the #!@#$& hive Beetles?
Post by: paus on August 05, 2017, 12:16:37 pm
Oil Pans are catching 100's in some of my hives, but I have another predator, it looks like a mid size dragon fly all black, gray and white spots.  Yes I have seen it with a bee , but I don't know if it caught it or it was a dead bee, I strongly suspect the latter, as it was near the entrance. A fly swatter works great, but I am curious if anyone has seen this and what is that varmint.
Title: Re: What are y'all doing for the #!@#$& hive Beetles?
Post by: bwallace23350 on August 05, 2017, 01:12:57 pm
I don't see very many in my hives and I have no traps. The frames are full of bees in in majority sun.
Title: Re: What are y'all doing for the #!@#$& hive Beetles?
Post by: Van, Arkansas, USA on August 05, 2017, 07:29:40 pm
Paus, it is called a "robber fly" or "fly catcher."  They are shy and fast, predacious flys that are deadly to bees.  Fortunately the robber fly is few in number.  Google for pic.
Blessings
Title: Re: What are y'all doing for the #!@#$& hive Beetles?
Post by: paus on August 05, 2017, 07:37:16 pm
Van you nailed it, besides other destructive weapons to varmints a fly swatter is going to become a permanent part of my golf cart.
Title: Re: What are y'all doing for the #!@#$& hive Beetles?
Post by: manfmlox on August 08, 2017, 04:40:45 pm
I have three hives that were just started this year. One I started from a package and I've yet to see a beetle. The two smaller came from NUCs and both had a few beetles. I bought the beetle blaster traps and filled them with the oil. Caught several in the traps and I haven't seen anymore in the hives.
Title: Re: What are y'all doing for the #!@#$& hive Beetles?
Post by: Oldbeavo on August 08, 2017, 07:12:15 pm
I will stand corrected but I have been told that SHB's like higher humidity, so whether the trees etc are restricting wind/air flow.
To shift hives, the rule from Sawdustmaster I think, move them 3ft or 3 miles seems to work, it may take multiple shifts but does seem to work well.
Title: Re: What are y'all doing for the #!@#$& hive Beetles?
Post by: eltalia on August 08, 2017, 07:30:23 pm
I will stand corrected but I have been told that SHB's like higher humidity, so whether the trees etc are restricting wind/air flow.
To shift hives, the rule from Sawdustmaster I think, move them 3ft or 3 miles seems to work, it may take multiple shifts but does seem to work well.

Concur OB, tis my experience in what works. Tho' I have read countless times in the past weeks of difference;"shake 'em out, and they'll walk in" and "throw down twigs and brush and they will reorientate"... all within metres of the original hive position.
Mind you I have also read much of "waaah waah, my bees are gone!!" and "this nuc was strong, that nuc was weak, now that nuc is strong and the other nuc is riddled with beetle".... beats me why some some choose to put the willow to tneir pwn back.
Well not really beats me, an explanation is found in trying to run 4+ colonies in an urban backyard and no option for a remote location shift nor time spent daily moving a colony - the kids swings being in the way.
[shrugs]

Cheerio...

Bill --- and well past time to catch yet anothrr fine
and sunny Spring Day in FNQ ! Tis TBH frame install Day today :-))))
Title: Re: What are y'all doing for the #!@#$& hive Beetles?
Post by: Oldbeavo on August 09, 2017, 06:43:54 pm
Our hives have floor vents and lid vents, SHB is not an issue, yet.
The difference between hives in SHB infestation, from observation, is related to the bees.
We find the occasional beetle and in some hives the bees chase them and try to grab them, I assume to throw them out, while other bees just walk around like the beetle is OK.
Is beetle aggression another thing we should be considering when breeding bees?
Title: Re: What are y'all doing for the #!@#$& hive Beetles?
Post by: Fishing-Nut on August 09, 2017, 07:14:45 pm
Beavo I would be interested in something like that. Because I have a hive that's right beside one that's got them pretty bad and they really get after the beetles. They don't have them near as bad as the hive that's less than a foot away. Also about half the bees in this hive are solid black. And testy with me as well. When I take the lid off, if there's a Beetle crawling around on it a bee will grab it up and ball up around it I'm assuming chewing on it. Then it let's go and within a second another bee does the same thing. You can really tell that they don't like the beetles. It's neat to watch.
Title: Re: What are y'all doing for the #!@#$& hive Beetles?
Post by: Michael Bush on August 09, 2017, 07:21:16 pm
Larvae are the issue and I don't see a correlation between the number of adults and the number of larvae.  The larvae are dependent on a failing or failed colony.  If there are not enough bees to guard the comb they will take over.
Title: Re: What are y'all doing for the #!@#$& hive Beetles?
Post by: paus on August 09, 2017, 07:27:05 pm
It seems that fewer adults mean fewer larva.  How many eggs do female SHB lay a day or is it a burst of eggs  and then no more or does this cycle repeat on a regular basis?
Title: Re: What are y'all doing for the #!@#$& hive Beetles?
Post by: Van, Arkansas, USA on August 09, 2017, 11:31:13 pm
Hey Fish Nut:  my 2 cents worth.  I use oil pans, Frerman bottom board.  I have a SECTETE weapon that is deadly on beetles: super cold 134 spray can available at Amazon.  When the beetles try to hide in the cracks or in the bottom of cells, I freeze with the spray that is minus 62F at the tip.  The can of freeze spray has a tube just like with wd40.  This tube EASILY fits right into a cell, traps the Beetle exit and freezes the Beetle to death (-62F).  A honey bee 1/2 inch away is unharmed.  Bees 1/4 away will scamper.  The gas is nonflammable nontoxic and the same stuff used in doctor offices to freeze warts.  Super cold 134 takes no survivors.  Not for commercial use due to cost, again I cannot post price per adm. Rules.  But is doable.

CAUTION AROUND CHILDREN, it will freeze skin as mentioned.  This product is also used for removing dust from computers chips.
Blessings
Title: Re: What are y'all doing for the #!@#$& hive Beetles?
Post by: Oldbeavo on August 10, 2017, 04:10:51 am
Are there any nooks and cranny's where the beetle can get away from the bees? Our hives are very plain and any crevices or wood knots are filled in construction.
No telescopic lids or vent boards to provide hiding places for SHB's
Title: Re: What are y'all doing for the #!@#$& hive Beetles?
Post by: eltalia on August 10, 2017, 05:27:53 am
Hey Fish Nut:  my 2 cents worth.  I use oil pans, Frerman bottom board.  I have a SECTETE weapon that is deadly on beetles: super cold 134 spray can available at Amazon. 

Now that is a top move... only downside being using 134A as the product. An inert gas may rest easier with the chemical free pedant.
http://www.wartoff.com.au/

Having some on the shelf, I 'll try it with GoPro mounted next time I find a beetle/grub... could be more fun than popping toads on the road!


Cheers.

Bill
Title: Re: What are y'all doing for the #!@#$& hive Beetles?
Post by: GSF on August 10, 2017, 08:27:31 am
Hmmm, that 134 spray sounds like a lot of fun...
Title: Re: What are y'all doing for the #!@#$& hive Beetles?
Post by: agrimm01 on August 10, 2017, 10:38:18 am
I applied the NeverWet method of hive beetle control this year and it has worked great.  Every time I have opened my hives (3) this summer there have been zero to 1 beetle.  It has been a success for me.
Title: Re: What are y'all doing for the #!@#$& hive Beetles?
Post by: paus on August 10, 2017, 11:21:31 am
I ordered some never wet and have not used it yet, but I am in the process of building some DSBB now.  I am going to do the never wet thing  also along with oil pans. This should add icing to the SHB cake battle.  Just a thought. Since SHB move into hives that are stressed , does opening the hive cause enough stress to cause SHB to move in?  Maybe this should be a new subject.
Title: Re: What are y'all doing for the #!@#$& hive Beetles?
Post by: GSF on August 10, 2017, 01:19:58 pm
When we go in a hive we "free" the beetles about as much as we "stress" the bees. I've always heard they can tell when a hive is stressed. I've also caught swarms with a bucket just to discover that the swarm had small hive beetles with it.
Title: Re: What are y'all doing for the #!@#$& hive Beetles?
Post by: Oldbeavo on August 10, 2017, 07:30:20 pm
I am unsure if the SHB's move into stressed hives, more like they invade any hive but only survive in stressed hives.
Go to topic on "Splits" and we have a bee keeper who has done nothing to 9 hives for 4 years, why? Again is SHB survival in a hive bee related, bee aggression to SHB or good strong hives.
Title: Re: What are y'all doing for the #!@#$& hive Beetles?
Post by: derekNGA on August 13, 2017, 08:20:54 am
Hive beetles are intetesting annoyances.
Ive not found anything that Ive tried really do any good.
But, it seems with me and my bees, text book or others experience does not apply!  I seem to be the odd ball.
I have 7 hives.  Out of the 7, one this year hive and one last year hive are heavily infested.  Those two hives are the hardest working and most active hives I have.  The flip side, which goes against things stated, I have a hive that has struggled all year.  Queenless, have put in many frames of brood, egg, larvae (they never did make a queen), currently they have been dying off and for a while they do nothing.  No forage flights nothing.  Just hang around the entrace and stand there like statues.  That weak, dying hive, has hardly no beetles.  Ya gotta hunt hard to find one.  My other 5 hives, the beetles are there, but not too bad.  Im still learning and trying and hoping for a solution with these pests. 
Title: Re: What are y'all doing for the #!@#$& hive Beetles?
Post by: Van, Arkansas, USA on August 13, 2017, 09:27:30 am
Mr. Derek, the beetles are not in your dying hive due to the fact there is no larva or pollen stores to feed Beetle larva.  Your most active hive that is infested the most probably has the most pollen and larva thus attracting the most beetles.

The freeze spray mentioned above on this thread will work, it is deadly absolutely deadly on Beetles.

Sorry about your dying hive.
Blessings
Title: Re: What are y'all doing for the #!@#$& hive Beetles?
Post by: derekNGA on August 13, 2017, 10:07:22 am
Thanks Van, Arkansas....that makes sense.
One thing I forgot to add to my list of how they are intetesting annoyances....before I got my packages of bees my hives were set up and already had beetles in them.  Using the plastic foundations someone said they were drawn to the wax coating on them.  This spring in March, i had to buy an emergency hive, one of those already assembled, just open the box and go types. I had it inside my shop painting it, had the frames with plastic foundation sitting off to the side and would find beetles on the insides of the boxes when I would go out to put another coat of paint on....I just assume again, the smell from the plastic foundation smell was on the wood and that was enough to attract them.  Seems they have a pretty good sniffer!
Title: Re: What are y'all doing for the #!@#$& hive Beetles?
Post by: eltalia on August 13, 2017, 06:28:26 pm
Seems they have a pretty good sniffer!

Like flies to a flesh wound, you will always get one. It is up to you or your
carer as to whether or not the wound ends up maggoted.

But really I post as I again read your package came with beetles - stowaways.
Having read similar reports elsewhere I am gobsmacked such transfer of
beetles is even possible under due diligence. As I know very little on the
topic I am left to wonder... how does this happen at the host BKs end of the
supply chain or does it?

Cheers.

Bill
Title: Re: What are y'all doing for the #!@#$& hive Beetles?
Post by: Fishing-Nut on August 15, 2017, 10:28:03 pm
I'm pretty interested in this topic and other people's opinions. I appreciate the replies y'all.
Title: Re: What are y'all doing for the #!@#$& hive Beetles?
Post by: DeepCreek on August 28, 2017, 04:19:37 pm
NC and/or SC is where the beetles initially entered the US.

Your source?, as I try to defend NC.  The SHB was discovered in the US in 1996 and the movement of migratory bees by beekeepers in Florida transported the beetle to other states.
Title: Re: What are y'all doing for the #!@#$& hive Beetles?
Post by: sawdstmakr on August 28, 2017, 07:04:43 pm
Bill,
Most hives in the US, especially in the south, have SHBs. It is very difficult to remove every beetle from every hive. Even if you did, by the next morning there would bee more beetles in the hive that you just cleared.
My father in law's hives were inspected and certified to be mite and SHB free. 2 weeks later I helped him remove honey Supers. Some of his hives were full of beetles.
Jim
Title: Re: What are y'all doing for the #!@#$& hive Beetles?
Post by: eltalia on August 28, 2017, 08:14:49 pm


Bill,
Most hives in the US, especially in the south, have SHBs. It is very difficult to remove every beetle from every hive. Even if you did, by the next morning there would bee more beetles in the hive that you just cleared.
(edit)
Jim

Yeah, I get that Jim... as here there would be known areas of prolific
SHB habitation, so would it not follow BKs in those locations would
not supply packages?
Or is - as some boast - the trade so lucrative some do not give a rat's?
There was the direction my post was heading in :-)

Cheerio...

Bill




Title: Re: What are y'all doing for the #!@#$& hive Beetles?
Post by: PhilK on August 29, 2017, 09:22:51 am
I think beetles are par for the course in environments that are prone. We have beetles in every single one of our hives, but in most cases there are only a few hanging around and they cause no problem. A few times we've had larger numbers in hives positioned in shade or a nuc that's been over run etc and have had to use an Apithor harbourage trap as a last resort (we tend not to use chemicals where we can avoid it) which clears them up beautifully. Once they are down to a manageable level we remove the trap.

We use some matts on some hives (the bees just tend to propolise them shut), some oil traps in between top bars (they don't seem to catch much), but for the most part we don't use anything and just rely on the strength of the colony to keep the beetles under control.
Title: Re: What are y'all doing for the #!@#$& hive Beetles?
Post by: sawdstmakr on August 30, 2017, 09:34:31 am
Bill,
If all of the companies that have SHBs stopped producing nucs or packages, there would bee a severe shortage of bees here in the US. Nucs would probably bee so expensive that only the very rich could afford them.
Most of our bees are produced here in the south because we have a much longer bee season. Almost all hives in the south have SHBs.
Jim
Title: Re: What are y'all doing for the #!@#$& hive Beetles?
Post by: eltalia on August 30, 2017, 10:50:46 am
Bill,
If all of the companies that have SHBs stopped producing nucs or packages, there would bee a severe shortage of bees here in the US. Nucs would probably bee so expensive that only the very rich could afford them.
Most of our bees are produced here in the south because we have a much longer bee season. Almost all hives in the south have SHBs.
Jim

Maaate... that frank (honest) illumination is greatly appreciated.
Pretty much I am moved to send you a 20K strong pack of SHB free bees.
But from what you post the poe buggers would be rhap'd an' pillaged by
beetle within days of unpacking... hardly a tourist's sought greet ;-))))

Cheerio...

Bill
Title: Re: What are y'all doing for the #!@#$& hive Beetles?
Post by: sawdstmakr on August 30, 2017, 08:15:38 pm
Thanks Bill but your bees would probably bee over run with SHBs in about a month. They would not know how to deal with them and the beetles would lay their eggs everywhere and then the bees would not remove them and the hive would be slimed.  When SHBS do enter your country it will take a while to find bees that have the genetics to survive with SHBs.
Jim
Title: Re: What are y'all doing for the #!@#$& hive Beetles?
Post by: PhilK on August 31, 2017, 12:54:00 am
Thanks Bill but your bees would probably bee over run with SHBs in about a month. They would not know how to deal with them and the beetles would lay their eggs everywhere and then the bees would not remove them and the hive would be slimed.  When SHBS do enter your country it will take a while to find bees that have the genetics to survive with SHBs.
Jim
Jim SHBs are well established in Australia. I'm not sure where Bill is that he has no SHBs, but he'd be the only Australian beekeeper I've spoken to that hasn't got them. As far as I am aware he is in Northern QLD and that's one of the best places for SHB due to the heat and humidity.
Title: Re: What are y'all doing for the #!@#$& hive Beetles?
Post by: eltalia on August 31, 2017, 12:59:13 am
Thanks Bill but your bees would probably bee over run with SHBs in about a month. They would not know how to deal with them and the beetles would lay their eggs everywhere and then the bees would not remove them and the hive would be slimed.  When SHBS do enter your country it will take a while to find bees that have the genetics to survive with SHBs.
Jim
Oh we got 'em Jim, since around 2009 in some parts. IIRC
Just my experience is only very recent as I relocated in retirement, and
to a 'wetter- cooler' environment where apparently SHB is around. Not at
my place tho'.. or at least aa far as I can tell. Come November I'll be taking
in this year's refugees from beehavers so I'll see if the pattern repeats last
year's.

Cheerio...

Bill
Title: Re: What are y'all doing for the #!@#$& hive Beetles?
Post by: sawdstmakr on August 31, 2017, 12:59:24 am
Thanks Bill but your bees would probably bee over run with SHBs in about a month. They would not know how to deal with them and the beetles would lay their eggs everywhere and then the bees would not remove them and the hive would be slimed.  When SHBS do enter your country it will take a while to find bees that have the genetics to survive with SHBs.
Jim
Jim SHBs are well established in Australia. I'm not sure where Bill is that he has no SHBs, but he'd be the only Australian beekeeper I've spoken to that hasn't got them. As far as I am aware he is in Northern QLD and that's one of the best places for SHB due to the heat and humidity.
Thanks Phil. I thought they were pretty rare there.
Jim
Title: Re: What are y'all doing for the #!@#$& hive Beetles?
Post by: eltalia on August 31, 2017, 01:21:57 am

Jim SHBs are well established in Australia. I'm not sure where Bill is that he has no SHBs, but he'd be the only Australian beekeeper I've spoken to that hasn't got them. As far as I am aware he is in Northern QLD and that's one of the best places for SHB due to the heat and humidity.

You beat me tuit Phil..heh.
Would video convince you!? I say again... no SHB on my place nor at my
two colonies up river (20Km away). And I came here from east of the Towers, no
SHB in any of that country along the Burdekin., but yep, typically around 30+C and
below 20% rH most of the year. Much wetter at the same temps here.

 : chuckles:

Bill
Title: Re: What are y'all doing for the #!@#$& hive Beetles?
Post by: PhilK on August 31, 2017, 05:48:14 am
Oh I was picturing very humid north QLD, the drier weather makes sense
Title: Re: What are y'all doing for the #!@#$& hive Beetles?
Post by: eltalia on August 31, 2017, 06:40:43 am
Oh I was picturing very humid north QLD, the drier weather makes sense

Nope... it's understandable that impression gets installed though what with
the tourism industry label "Great Green Way". BOM can deliver annual
summarys for each area but roughly there are "rain shadows" on the coast
at Yeppon, Bowen, Giru to Rollingstone (includes Townsville), Cardwell Range
to Bilyana and another narrow band from Ellis Beach to Port Douglas.
And like you'd think Tully signified the wet look best what with it's high
rainfall - and the ADF having their jungle training facility there -  but go
inland not 20Kms and your're in open woodland forest (bush).
There is why we differentiate between "scrub" and "bush", bee foraging wise.
Once your're on top of the range (Great Divide) where the scrub is most thick
your're in some very dry open woodlands, the Tablelands being the exception.
Out where the Merlin poster is from ( norWest Tabkelands) they have to irrigate
to crop, nice volcanic soils but poor (comparitively) rainfall. The only contact I
had out there moved his operation to Toowoomba, years ago, so it'd be nice to
know if SHB has moved in there yet.
That all means little to someone offshore as cyclones and floods have long placed
their stamp, geographicly, but these are very localised peaking events as you
would know.

Cheers.

Bill
Title: Re: What are y'all doing for the #!@#$& hive Beetles?
Post by: GSF on September 06, 2017, 02:57:20 pm
This may be like beating a dead horse.., I'm having a bumper crop of small hive beetles this year.
Title: Re: What are y'all doing for the #!@#$& hive Beetles?
Post by: Eric Bosworth on September 06, 2017, 03:11:16 pm
This may be like beating a dead horse.., I'm having a bumper crop of small hive beetles this year.
I haven't seen a single one. Not something I want to see either.
Title: Re: What are y'all doing for the #!@#$& hive Beetles?
Post by: Fishing-Nut on September 06, 2017, 03:20:21 pm
Folks, I have 2 hives side by side. I did the Swiffer method on both of them. Both hives had a bunch of Beetles that would scatter every time I pop the lid off. In one hive I caught a ton of Beetles and now literally have a hard time finding one in it. The hive right next to it has seriously only caught 4 or 5 Beetles and there are still a bunch that scatter when I remove the lid. I wander what the deal is with that? They are literally 3 feet from each other, and I used the exact same method of beetle control on them. Hmm.
Title: Re: What are y'all doing for the #!@#$& hive Beetles?
Post by: paus on September 06, 2017, 04:05:57 pm
I think that some hives just don't like SHB and chase them.  Some hives try to ignore them, hey this sounds like people I know.  Either way resources are wasted which leads me up to my favorite soapbox, DSBB and oil tray or pans.  I found a more reasonable and much better pan than cookie sheets.  I went to a "Pot Luck Supper" and there were several empty aluminum throw away dishes going to be thrown away.  I asked for them and ignored the looks.  I "almost" cleaned them with a  water hose and shaped them by hand so they fit in the DSBB I  put old cooking oil in them from a fish fry,  works great.  I did have a lesson taught me by the bees on the only TBH that we have, make sure the DSBB is absolutely bee proof.  The bees found a small crack, and a lot of bees paid the ultimate price along with a lot of SHB.  The DSBB can be used on TBH by going under from both ends. works great now.  Still learning after 60+ years loving bees since I got my first bees.  I wish my experience had bee more on than off.