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MEMBER & GUEST INTERACTION SECTION => THE COFFEE HOUSE ((( SOCIAL - ROOM ))) => Topic started by: Michael Bush on November 30, 2020, 07:12:49 pm

Title: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: Michael Bush on November 30, 2020, 07:12:49 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMrEzqwffEs
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: Acebird on December 01, 2020, 08:28:37 am
The man who cannot accept the most accurate and secure election in US history is a sore loser.
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: cidersabuzzin on December 01, 2020, 09:08:10 am
 :grin: :grin: :grin:
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: iddee on December 01, 2020, 10:09:44 am
Most accurate and secure, RIGHT!!

This was in 4 states, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Michigan, and Georgia.
▶️All four states used Dominion software
▶️All four states stopped counting votes on the night of the election for no apparent reason
▶️ All four states locked out poll watchers during and after stoppage
▶️All four states Trump had a sizable vote lead at the time of vote stoppage
▶️ All four states continued vote counting during announced stoppage
▶️ All four states witnesses saw ballots being delivered during the night
▶️All four states had large spike in vote blocks for Biden arrive in the middle of the night (Ballot stuffing)
▶️All four states had shifts in the percentage of votes being counted towards Biden after the election and after 90% or more of the votes had already been counted (Algorithm changed)
▶️All four the voting irregularities were identified in metro Democrat areas.
▶️All four states were won by Trump in 2016
▶️ All four states the nightime Biden block votes were for Biden only and not down ticket offices
▶️ All four states the metro voter turnout was statistically impossible (Greater than voter registrations and/or population in district)
▶️ All four states allowed Democrat only correction of ballots with errors
▶️ All four states the voting irregularities were always favoring Biden.
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: iddee on December 01, 2020, 02:16:45 pm
Absolutely accurate and secure........NOT

 
https://www.newsmax.com/politics/fbi-voter-fraud/2020/11/30/id/999369/?ns_mail_uid=3d8a23b4-906b-4367-835f-8cb0e5f7b2e8&ns_mail_job=DM167960_12012020&s=acs&dkt_nbr=010504qi5wp9
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: little john on December 02, 2020, 06:41:57 am
Whenever a person subjects themselves to a decision-making process - whether this be the toss of a coin, a spin of the roulette wheel, or a political election - then the time to complain about that process is BEFORE it takes place, and not afterwards.
By subjecting yourself to an existing protocol, you are effectively agreeing to whatever rules or past conduct of that decision-making process have been deemed acceptable, and to any influence these may have upon the outcome.

To complain that something has happened (whether this be true or not) of which you were previously unaware, or which has occurred without your anticipation, displays poor judgement - and for a politician, that alone should be a good enough reason for them to lose.
LJ
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: Acebird on December 02, 2020, 08:44:37 am
The irony LJ is that Trump complained before the 2016 election and then the votes were in his favor.  That is after Russian medaling.  Of course after the 2016 election he claimed it was legitimate.  Four years later steps were taken to secure the vote and he suffered a resounding loss.  This is after blatant attempts to stop people of color from voting.
Mr Trump is now caught in a dilemma of pardoning his family and friends.  The problem with pardons is that when you accept the pardon you publicly admit you are a criminal.  You might say so what.  Well most legitimate businesses will not work with you if you are a criminal.  The Trump empire could crash.  It is already suffering greatly from covid.  The fool thought he was so powerful he could wish it away.  Karma...
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: little john on December 02, 2020, 09:24:17 am
Hello Brian - thanks for the clarification re: events prior to the 2016 election.

A couple of months ago I read a BBC article about the various law suits that have been 'kept on ice' until such time when Trump is no longer President, and thus loses the legal immunity which that position holds.

I can't see him ever doing jail-time, as that would be enormously embarrassing for your country's image - but I suspect he'll take some kind of business hit, as you suggest.
LJ   
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: sawdstmakr on December 02, 2020, 10:04:47 am
LJ,
It is Obama that should bee put in jail for crimes against the United States. He gave aid and comfort to our enemy, Iran-150 billion dollars. He should have been impeached under article 2 section 4 and  convicted under article 3 section 3.
Jim Altmiller
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: iddee on December 02, 2020, 10:16:41 am
LJ, reverse everything acebird said and you will have the truth. He says nothing but lies, so therefore never posts any backup links or proof, since none exist.
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: Milo on December 02, 2020, 03:47:22 pm
And when you copy and paste from the Free Republic forum and not link your source, is it any different?

The arrow bullet point list was amazingly unique and easily followed, was it your work or is tired&retired someone else 😉
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: iddee on December 02, 2020, 05:56:57 pm
When I copy/paste I do provide a link to the article, if that's where I got it.   The bullet list came in an email and I don't know how to link emails.
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: salvo on December 03, 2020, 02:17:23 pm
Hi Folks,

Copy and Paste here.

Why did I have to SEARCH for this. It was yesterday. It is my President.

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=trump%27s+speech&view=detail&mid=BDEC6A716E15D6003711BDEC6A716E15D6003711&FORM=VIRE0&ru=%2fsearch%3fq%3dtrump%2527s%2bspeech%26form%3dANSNB1%26refig%3d6f5b233e74254c4ea627fa7d683ebd3b%26pc%3dU531%26sp%3d-1%26pq%3dtrump%2527s%2bspeech%26sc%3d8-14%26qs%3dn%26sk%3d%26cvid%3d6f5b233e74254c4ea627fa7d683ebd3b

Anybody here need a bibliography?

Sal
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: little john on December 04, 2020, 09:29:51 am
I don't suppose the following will sway anyone's opinions, as it appears that most of you guys have fixed views re: Trump and the election - but here is some 'fact-checking' which was done by the BBC back in early November.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2020-54837926

LJ
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: Acebird on December 04, 2020, 06:16:20 pm
LJ it is pointless to give links or provide proof because they are too far gone with the kool aid.  Trump has taken the lying normally associated with most politicians to an extreme that no one will top, ever.
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: Michael Bush on December 07, 2020, 04:21:48 pm
>The man who cannot accept the most accurate and secure election in US history is a sore loser.

Well the supreme court will weigh in on that shortly.  It is clear that NONE of those states in question followed their own election laws.
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: Kathyp on December 20, 2020, 07:23:42 pm
Quote
I don't suppose the following will sway anyone's opinions, as it appears that most of you guys have fixed views re: Trump and the election - but here is some 'fact-checking' which was done by the BBC back in early November.

Your BBC is the = to our CNN.  CNN is no longer a news source, but an advocate for the Dems. BBC has a particular point of view that they push.  I skimmed your article and without finishing it found 3 errors. 

This was not a secure election.  In fact, it was probably one of the least secure we have ever had.  Did that change the eventual outcome?  We'll never know.  Several states sent ballots out to all registered voters without checking that those voters were still in the state, or even still alive.  A couple of states allowed ballot harvesting so we have no way to know where the ballots came from.  Several states did not verify signatures so given the above two actions, we have no way to know that ballots were cast by those for whom the ballots were intended.

Additionally, we have 1st person testimony to weird things happening as ballots were being counted including, but limited to, sudden stopping of counting on one pretext or another, resuming counting after questionable ballots were delivered and Republican party watchers were gone.  Fake water leakes and restarting of counting when no one was watching.  Problems with voting machines.  Suddenly "found" ballots that were for Biden only and often were ONLY marked for Biden and no down ballot people. 

This is just a partial list.  Again, we don't know that any of this made a difference in the long run, but in almost every state the down ballot Republicans won house seats and local elections.  For some reason all those republican voting people decided to then not vote for Trump and vote for Biden?

What we do know is that a large portion of the country does not trust this election and in fact, has not trusted several in the past.  No matter who won, the most important thing going forward is that people have faith in the system.  The dems spent 4 years carping that the election was stolen from Hillary.  We have reason to believe that this election had major problems.
What is the point of participating in a system that we can't trust?  We probably ought to fix this or forget the whole thing.

 

Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: Acebird on December 22, 2020, 09:27:09 am
There you go again Kathy, trying to rewrite history.  Nothing like a sore loser.  Even Barr got fed up with Trump's crap which I never expected in a million years.
Hey Kathy even Putin acknowledged Biden's win and is adjusting.  Nobody but a handful of Beemaster members is ever going to believe your history book.
Biden is not going to be able to accomplish much even though the radical right's propaganda said it would be the end of the country.  That is why there are 20 or so republicans chomping at the bit for the next election.  Without Trump in the picture it will be tough for the Democrats to get motivated.
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: Acebird on December 22, 2020, 09:30:04 am
>The man who cannot accept the most accurate and secure election in US history is a sore loser.

Well the supreme court will weigh in on that shortly.  It is clear that NONE of those states in question followed their own election laws.
Are you happy with the supreme court's decision packed with conservatives.  Probably not, it didn't go your way.
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: Ben Framed on December 22, 2020, 01:10:39 pm
>The man who cannot accept the most accurate and secure election in US history is a sore loser.

Well the supreme court will weigh in on that shortly.  It is clear that NONE of those states in question followed their own election laws.
Are you happy with the supreme court's decision packed with conservatives.  Probably not, it didn't go your way.

What about you Brian?  I take it you are happy with their decision, not to hear the case presented? Being this decision went your way?  Are you now happy with these Constitutional minded Justices of the Supreme Court (or conservatives) as you put it? Do you now think Mr Trump made good decisions concerning these which were nominated by him? Or is that more that you can admit? Perhaps more that your little donkey cart can carry?   :cheesy:   lol




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Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: Acebird on December 23, 2020, 09:09:35 am
>The man who cannot accept the most accurate and secure election in US history is a sore loser.

Well the supreme court will weigh in on that shortly.  It is clear that NONE of those states in question followed their own election laws.
Are you happy with the supreme court's decision packed with conservatives.  Probably not, it didn't go your way.
Do you now think Mr Trump made good decisions concerning these which were nominated by him?                                                                                                                                                  .

No.  The choices were made by Trump assuming that they would protect him, his monkey court.  They were not good choices in my opinion because they will back track the country instead of moving it forward.  This will give the country a lower standing in world affairs.
The ram rod government that we have had in the past is no good for the country no matter what party is in power.  The country will not be great again unless it can unite again.  I don't see us moving in that direction.  Trump has made the problem infinitesimally worse.  He is so divisive that he split his own party and lost the election.  He is so ignorant that he can't add up why that makes you lose an election.  The republican party is a minority.  If they nominate Trump in 2024 the country will end up a one party system.  That would be catastrophic to the democracy.
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: Ben Framed on December 23, 2020, 12:13:19 pm
No proof?  Try finding this on YouTube, Twitter, ETC. Hum



https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4931722/user-clip-jesse-binnall-opening-statement
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: Ben Framed on December 23, 2020, 12:17:35 pm
 Perhaps the following allegations made by attorney Lin Wood is the reason the the case was not heard?

Starting at 2:01 into the report.

https://youtu.be/4cLswLTZ18o
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: Acebird on December 24, 2020, 08:53:09 am
No proof?  Try finding this on YouTube, Twitter, ETC. Hum



https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4931722/user-clip-jesse-binnall-opening-statement
Phil, there has been counts and recounts, investigations and re-investigations.  All turned up squat when it comes to proving allegations.  Here is what you need to take away from that.  A pathological liar is not what you want to waste your time listening to.  The judges on the Supreme don't live in a vacuum.  By the time these allegations got to the supreme court they have seen enough.  Liars are just that liars.  Any abnormalities that shed a glimmer of truth were so small that it made no difference in the outcome.  Try to understand that, no difference in the outcome.  There will always be abnormalities in elections.  There always has.  If you are going to cry about fraud then YOU have to prove that the numbers are great enough to make a difference.  And so far, not even close.
Your buddy on a rampage with pardons has rocks for brains PROVING he has no regard for the rule of law.  Something true republicans hold dear.  How about you?
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: Ben Framed on December 24, 2020, 10:17:15 am

https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4931722/user-clip-jesse-binnall-opening-statement
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: Acebird on December 25, 2020, 09:44:07 am
More pardons... he feels real mighty when he has the presidency to protect him.  Watch him turn into a squealing baby when they come after him.  I feel sorry for the people that live near him on the island.
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: Michael Bush on December 25, 2020, 12:45:53 pm
>"the most accurate and secure election in US history"

Says homeland security when every system in the U.S. Government that they are responsible for was hacked because of Solar Winds, which of course was on all of the voting machines...
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: Ben Framed on December 25, 2020, 04:07:40 pm
Good post Mr Bush. I have come to the CONCLUSION: We could drive some to the very edge of the Pacific ocean. Take them out to the very edge of the vast sandy shore, stretch out our arm and say, you see, there IS a Pacific Ocean, We tried to tell you: I highly suspect the reaction by some might be, you still have no proof, all you have shown is a lot of water........   

It is about the same thing. It's just no use, some just don't get it.  :wink:


Our evidence has never been refuted; only IgnoredJesse Binnall

https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4931722/user-clip-jesse-binnall-opening-statement



No proof?  Try finding this on YouTube, Twitter, ETC. Hum



https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4931722/user-clip-jesse-binnall-opening-statement
Phil, there has been counts and recounts, investigations and re-investigations.  All turned up squat when it comes to proving allegations.  Here is what you need to take away from that.  A pathological liar is not what you want to waste your time listening to.  The judges on the Supreme don't live in a vacuum.  By the time these allegations got to the supreme court they have seen enough.  Liars are just that liars.  Any abnormalities that shed a glimmer of truth were so small that it made no difference in the outcome.  Try to understand that, no difference in the outcome.  There will always be abnormalities in elections.  There always has.  If you are going to cry about fraud then YOU have to prove that the numbers are great enough to make a difference.  And so far, not even close.
Your buddy on a rampage with pardons has rocks for brains PROVING he has no regard for the rule of law.  Something true republicans hold dear.  How about you?




Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: Acebird on December 26, 2020, 09:24:24 am
Quite the opposite, it has been refuted time and time again.  It is the outcomes that have been ignored from those that have been dreaming up these allegations long before the elections even started.  They knew he was going to lose.  If you want to place doubt on our election systems then how do you explain the legitimacy of Trump ever becoming president?
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: Ben Framed on December 26, 2020, 12:00:31 pm
Quite the opposite, it has been refuted time and time again.  It is the outcomes that have been ignored from those that have been dreaming up these allegations long before the elections even started.  They knew he was going to lose.  If you want to place doubt on our election systems then how do you explain the legitimacy of Trump ever becoming president?

Sometimes in life we run across those who may appear to come across as unreasonable to the point of silliness with nothing to offer in opposing evidence except unsubstantiated empty hollow words of possible deception, eager and swift in disallowing opposing views of his or her own. In my opinion, such views should produce concrete sources which ARE backed up with FACTS, if they are to be taken seriously, such as those Jesse Binnall presented along with his statement before the state senate in reply 27: Those statements presented as truthful facts. Even so, some which have may have been duped, may continue striving to wish his or her self serving views on others, hoping to dupe them as well. 

For these reasons I have a choice to believe Jesse Binnall and his yet to be refuted evidence, meaning, (which has yet to be proven false or untrue), or a those who deny Attorney Binnall and his mountain of evidence he and his staff have uncovered. (Yet not only he and this situation, but evidence gathered by others in other states and their situations as well). In good faith toward you Ace, asking for the same good faith in return.  I will ask, is Jesse Binnall lying? If so please shine the truth! Sources please!



                                                                                                                                                                               
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: gww on December 26, 2020, 12:57:10 pm
ben
Justice in America is set up in a fair manner with the premise of proof beyond a reasonable doubt.  Under this fair system, it is the accuser who has the responsibility to provide the proof.  This burden is on the government if it accuses a person of a crime.  If a worker accuses an employer of sexual harassment or some other misdeed, the burden of proof shifts to the employee making the claim.  Donald Trump is making the claim of voter fraud and so the burden is on him and he has not met even the minimum of proof.  It is not for the one having the claim against him to disprove the claimers allegations.  That is not how justice works under a constitution that has a basis of innocent until proven guilty.  I do not believe we would be America if we change the system to where there is no need of the burden of proof being met from an accuser.  That would be anti justice.  You think about this for a bit while having your strong beliefs.
Cheers
gww
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: Ben Framed on December 26, 2020, 03:36:15 pm
ben
Justice in America is set up in a fair manner with the premise of proof beyond a reasonable doubt.  Under this fair system, it is the accuser who has the responsibility to provide the proof.  This burden is on the government if it accuses a person of a crime.  If a worker accuses an employer of sexual harassment or some other misdeed, the burden of proof shifts to the employee making the claim.  Donald Trump is making the claim of voter fraud and so the burden is on him and he has not met even the minimum of proof.  It is not for the one having the claim against him to disprove the claimers allegations.  That is not how justice works under a constitution that has a basis of innocent until proven guilty.  I do not believe we would be America if we change the system to where there is no need of the burden of proof being met from an accuser.  That would be anti justice.  You think about this for a bit while having your strong beliefs.
Cheers
gww

> ben
Justice in America is set up in a fair manner with the premise of proof beyond a reasonable doubt.  Under this fair system, it is the accuser who has the responsibility to provide the proof.  This burden is on the government if it accuses a person of a crime.

Agreed proof has been provided time and time again, State after State. Including this one in discussion.
 YET: Our evidence has never been refuted; only Ignored.  Jesse Binnall

> Donald Trump is making the claim of voter fraud and so the burden is on him and he has not met even the minimum of proof.

Wrong: It's not just Donald Trump alone but over 80 million Americans who are concerned about the overwhelming evidence which has been uncovered yet ignored by so many, not only Republicans but Democrats alike which were eyewitnesses, which have signed sworn statements to such, including the mountain of evidence just posted in reply 27 " https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4931722/user-clip-jesse-binnall-opening-statement " Perhaps you did not chose to view the statement of Jesse Binnall or could it be you are also ignoring this overwheling evidence?

>It is not for the one having the claim against him to disprove the claimers allegations.  That is not how justice works under a constitution that has a basis of innocent until proven guilty.

Correct but allegations, in a fair debate, such as Ace and I were having should be proven or disproven in order to have a FAIR debate. If one states something that appears to being an untruth as fact, when discounted by someone such Jesse Binnall which has said differently! Quoting Ace "Quite the opposite, it has been refuted time and time again." as he was referring to evidence presented by Jesse Binnall. Again Mr Binnall says his evidence has not been proven false or untrue only ignored.
Attorney Binnalls' presented substantial evidence, to the Senate says different than Ace is claiming..  If Ace or even yourself wish to have a FAIR debate, let my ask you both; Is it unfair of me to ask where is your source discounting Mr Binnall, showing his evidence is untrue? Do you consider it unreasonable of me to ask such questions? Or are you simply attempting to silence me from asking what I consider reasonable questions? Just as it seems the left is attempting to do, silence evidence from the eyes and ears of The People by taking down videos such as above. Evidence presented by (champions of freedom) such as Attorney Jesse Binnall?  The last time I checked the above video by Attorney Binnall, was taken down by most social media platforms. Even though this statement was presented to the Senate Homeland Security hearing on election fraud. Truth suppressed? Truth silenced? Hum

>That is not how justice works under a constitution that has a basis of innocent until proven guilty.

I agree, it is my opinion that Mr Binnall is both correct and truthful. Until proven otherwise, deserving the opportunity to present his case in a court before We The People so we can hear it all in a fair and unbiased court. 

>  I do not believe we would be America if we change the system to where there is no need of the burden of proof being met from an accuser.  That would be anti justice.

I, as you, believe we would not be America if we change the system to where there is no need of the burden of proof the be met and presented. Just as important, when the burden of proof is sought, found, presented and ignored, do you consider that justice?  Would it not also be anti-justice if truth is suppressed and ignored? Why is the left so afraid of evidence presented, and when presented ignored or attempted to be squashed? I will ask you the same question as I ask Ace, to be fair to you as well. Is Jesse Binnall lying?

I take it that you could not have possibly listened to the statement by Attorney Jesse Binnall, presenting the proof in his statement to the Senate Homeland Security hearing on election fraud? Though I am not a Judge neither are you.  If it were in a court of law seeking justice it would be up to Mr Binnall to prove he has evidence (which he says he has).  Mr Binnall has the burden of proving beyond a reasonable doubt that he is correct, If he is telling the true, he has the documentation! Can the other side disprove these documented facts? Or do they need too? Or would it be simpler to just ignore these facts and documentations pushing it to the side as it appears to most of the nation, they are doing. Hum....

> You think about this for a bit while having your strong beliefs.

Perhaps it is you which should think about it for a while before having your strong beliefs? But better yet, hear the evidence before resolving to such strong beliefs, or perhaps I should say such strong disbeliefs? :shocked:




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Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: gww on December 26, 2020, 06:26:27 pm
ben
I watched most of senator johnsons hearing while it happened.  There were other witnesses there also and binnall mostly had an opening statement and a closing statement but not much else.  You say 80 million voters for trump?  You got that mixed up, that was bidens count, trump was 74 million.  Still, 74 million seems enough to come up with more than just math problems that when looked into can be explained by the stuff they used for the equation for the math problems.  I think the authorities finally did find one trump voter who voted twice, once for himself and once for his dead mother.  But he did get caught which is what is supposed to happen and apparently did. 

The first math problem spread around was that it was a billion to one that biden could win from the night of voting.  It is interesting math but like all things is a crap in and then you get crap out.  So yes, taking the vote percentage from bidens worst county and saying the rest of the state will vote like that also would give you a correct math answer but it would not be the correct answer for the situation.

I see now the places some of your clips are coming from (not the last one) like oan and newsmax and fox are now all putting fact check on them selves on the crap they were spreading on the voting machines.  Does not this fact at least maybe make you think that you should at least wonder about all that they tell you about said subject. 

Rather than me spread what those news men say as fact for them, I am going to help them spread it while saying show me more cause talk is cheap.  This goes for all the news since most is owned by very few people with a large enough amount of influence over all news, I go with mark twain which is, if you don't read the news, you are uninformed and if you do read it you are misinformed.

I do understand what your guy said during the hearing but also saw the others that were witnesses being taken much more seriously and also came to the conclusion that johnson was not really worried about fixing the legitimate problems but was more trying to give legitimacy to the crap that is out there.  I do not see him working on the hack of the computers. 

lastly, in a fair debate, calling out stuff that is pure allegation and pointing out that it would have no more merit than it would be given in a court room is a fair debate.  You can not prove a negative.  In a debate, I can say martians landed at my house yesterday and I should not have to expect you to prove that to me and you might discount it if I don't show proof.   In the end, the few times lawyers were questioned by the judge, they refused to put themselves in a position before the court where they might be sanctioned and having to answer honestly, destroyed their own cases.  They had their day but were wrong and apparently knew it when ask.  In the years ahead this will all be studied and maybe than you will see beyond what those with a nefarious agenda have told you.

Cheers
gww

Ps A smiley face to show my heart is in the right place. :grin:
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: Ben Framed on December 27, 2020, 05:12:02 am
Gww rather than rehash all the double talk in your previous post, I will refer to you reply 27 and 31 These should pretty well cover the issue. 
Cheers

PS a smily face back at you in return to show you my heart is in the right place also. 😃




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Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: Acebird on December 27, 2020, 09:06:26 am
In the years ahead this will all be studied and maybe than you will see beyond what those with a nefarious agenda have told you.
Unlikely once you have become one of them.  Rules, laws, practices, common behavior all get thrown out the window.
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: Ben Framed on December 28, 2020, 02:19:10 pm
> Quoting gww
ben
I watched most of senator johnsons hearing while it happened.  There were other witnesses there also and binnall mostly had an opening statement and a closing statement but not much else.

How much more does he need? 

> quoting gww
I think the authorities finally did find one trump voter who voted twice

Good, at least the authorities are not sitting on their backsides; Good job authorities! This ONE Republican person should have got caught if true; fraud is fraud? Poor Mr Binnall found what he found without the aid of authorities such as Grand juries, Subpoenas, or FBI Agents. But you already know this as you watched his testimony; UNDER OATH
Voter fraud should be found and dealt with, especially in a Presidential election.  Oh I remember, in a two tiered justice system, only Republicans should be punished. My oversight, what was I thinking?  DUH on me.....
I have ask you before and I am asking you again, Is Mr Binnall lying?



From Jesse Binnall UNDER OATH

The opening statement from President Trumps lawyer Jesse Binnall before the Senate Homeland Security hearing on election fraud. 

Thank you Mr. Chairman
Ranking member Peters and Members of this committee. This year thousands upon thousands of Nevada voters had their voices canceled out by election fraud and invalid ballots. Heres how it happened. On August 3,2020 After a rushed special session  Nevada  legislators made DRASTIC changes to the States election law by adopting a bill known as AB4. The vulnerabilities of this statute are obvious, it provided for universal mail voting without sufficient safeguards to authenticate voters or insure fundamental requirements that only one ballot was sent to each qualified voter. This was aggravated by election officials failure to clean known deficiencies in their voter roles.  Because of AB4 the number of mail ballots rocketed from 70,000 in 2016 to over 690,000 in 2020. The election was inevitably riddled with FRAUD and our HOT LINE never stopped ringing. While the media and democrats accuse us of making it all up. Our team began CHASING DOWN EVERY LEAD. Our evidence team from data SCIENTIST and brave whistle blowers.

Here is what we found. Over 42,000: 42,000 PEOPLE voted more than once.  Our experts were able to make this determination by REVIEWING the list of actual voters in comparing it to others with the same Name, Address, and Date of Birth. This method was able to catch people using different variations of the first name such as William and Bill and individuals who both registered both under a married name and a maiden name. At least 1,500 dead people are recorded as voting as shown BY COMPARING the list of mail voters with the social security DEATH RECORDS.  More than 19.000 people voted even though they did not live in Nevada. This DOES NOT include military voters or students.  These voters were Identified by comparing the list of voters in the US Postal National Change of address data base among other sources. About 8,000 people voted from non-existent address.  Here we cross reference voters with the coding accuracy support system. Which allowed out experts to identify UNDELIVERABLE ADDRESSES. Over 15,000 voters were cast from commercial or VACANT address. Our experts found these voters by analyzing  OFFICIAL US postal records that FLAG non residential address in addresses vacant more than 90 days.  INCREDIBLY almost 4,000 non-citizens also voted. As determined by comparing official DMV records of NON-CITIZENS from the list of ACTUAL voters.  The list goes on and on. All in all, our experts identify 130,000 UNIQUE instances of  voter fraud In Nevada but the actual number is almost certainly higher. Our data scientist made these calculations NOT BY ESTIMATIONS OR STATISTICAL STAND POINTS but by analyzing the list of ACTUAL voters with other list which are PUBLICLY available.  To put it simply, they explain there methods so others COULD CHECK THEIR WORK.
(Our evidences has never been refuted only ignored) Two Clark County technical employees came forward completely independent of each other and explained that they discovered the number of votes reported by voting machines and stored on USB drives would change between the time the polls were closed; at night and when they were reopened the next morning. In other words, votes were literally appearing and disappearing in the dead of night. When we ATTEMPTED to verify the integrity of the machines, we allowed only a useless visual inspection of the OUTSIDE of USB drive. We were denied a  forensic examination. 
Finally our investigation also uncovered a campaigns to illegally insensitive votes form marginally populations by requiring people to prove they voted to receive raffle tickets for gift cards, televisions and more. Out determined team verified these irregularities without ANY of the tools of law enforcement, such as Grand juries, Subpoenas, or FBI Agents.  instead we  had less than a month to to use critical thinking and elbow grease to compile our evidence. We tried to obtain testimony  or documents from Clark co officials but they obstructed and stonewalled. When we filed suit, state officials , even courts delayed proceedings for days then offered us merely hours to brief and argue our cases. In wrapping up Mr Chairman,  these findings are disturbing, alarming, and unacceptable TO A FREE SOCITY.  Our free and fair election tradition  is a precious treasure that we are in charge with protecting.  Governments by the consent of govern is hard to win and EASY TO LOOSE.  Every time a fraudulent or illegal is cast the vote of an honest citizen is cancelled out. Thank you.


From reply 27
Quote
Good post Mr Bush. I have come to the CONCLUSION: We could drive some to the very edge of the Pacific ocean. Take them out to the very edge of the vast sandy shore, stretch out our arm and say, you see, there IS a Pacific Ocean, We tried to tell you: I highly suspect the reaction by some might be, you still have no proof, all you have shown is a lot of water........   

It is about the same thing. It's just no use, some just don't get it.  :wink:


"Our evidence has never been refuted; only Ignored." Jesse Binnall

https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4931722/user-clip-jesse-binnall-opening-statement



Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: gww on December 28, 2020, 04:22:02 pm
ben
Binnall's allegations have been in front of the court over fifty times with some of the republican appointed judges writing scathing rebukes against them. How many did he win?  You would think with over a quarter of a billion dollars donated to trumps defense fund they could hire good enough lawyers that could put evidence in a fashion where the courts could evaluated it if there was any real evidence.  Far as I can tell, Trump may not want a case to go to court cause it might cost more and leave him less money to siphon off for personal use.  Your position relies on all the election officials and judges all the way up to the supreme court as being part of a crooked fraud.  I am not buying such nonsense.  They have counted the paper ballots in Georgia three times.  It is not worth the time to go though all of binnals claims and debunk one by one when there have been court and news media doing that for you if you only payed a bit of attention.  Again, did I mention all the right wing media that are now fact checking themselves on all the bunk they were putting out on voting machines?  Of course I did cause when it come down to where the rubber meets the road, even they knew they could not prove out the crap they were spreading.
Wake up man.
Cheers
gww

Ps  Think of this, one of binnals claims was when given time in court, they were only given a few hours.  If judges could know there was nothing there in just a few hours to dismiss in the way they did, trump either needs new lawyers or there is no there there.
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: Ben Framed on December 28, 2020, 05:01:02 pm
> Your position relies on all the election officials and judges all the way up to the supreme court as being part of a crooked fraud. 

My position is wanting the truth. Truth can not be found if ignored whether by the local Justice of the Peace or The Supreme Court of the USA. I do not know why Mr Binnalls' irrefutable evidence along with his testimony UNDER OATH as above, has been ignored. He continues to present it so well, UNDER OATH. How could it be ignored and pushed to the side? Especially since he has the backing of documents proving every word! Are you suggesting the only reason may be, that judges may be corrupt? Though you don't buy it? I would hope you are correct. I would hope the courts are not tainted or corrupt. However; Me or you buying it or not buying it does not make it true or untrue. I will ask you again as I have asked you numerously;  Is Jesse Binnall lying? Surely the courts are not corrupt? As you say this may be the only possibly. Have you ever heard of such? Have you considered they may be corrupt all the way to the Supreme Court as you just mentioned? You may not be the only one who would have these questions of corruption to the top. Though it shudders me to think of such. Attorney Lin Wood has alleged such. He claims or alleges he has such proof. Not only he but others. If so I for one wish to see this evidence! But of course, if you can not see the OCEAN of evidence already produced, how could you ever believe Lin Woods most serious allegations of corruption of certain SCJustices even if such evidence will be made public.

Perhaps before answering the question (Is Jesse Binall lying) you may wish to review his statement shown in reply 35 once more....




                                                                                                                                                                                .
 
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: gww on December 28, 2020, 06:25:08 pm
Ben
I go back to the math question I mentioned before of it being a billion to one for biden to be able to catch up.  The guy saying it was telling the truth on what the math said but left out the fact that the math question was based on if the vote margins stayed the same which they did not because they never do stay the same from one election to the next.  The margins change based on who the candidates are.

If one place voted 70 thousand but then changed to 6oo thousand, that may be a correct statement but would not have involved what could have changed to make that happen.  There has been debunking of many of his claims and when questioned in court the lawyers have admitted that they had no evidence of fraud to present.  I can stand on a ladder and then tell you that the top of my head comes to ten feet.  Now you might think I am lying if you don't know I am standing on a ladder but I would be telling the truth but coaching it by leaving out something.

Why should I have to go piece by piece to point the above things about his statement out when as I said before, many have been addressed in the news and courts.

Pay attention and you might very well see for yourself.  Then once a few of the things fall apart, it might make you want to look closer at the rest of what he is saying.

I do agree that how much fraud is important and who was involved in it.  The one trump voter that I mentioned earlier would not have changed the outcome.  Some of these things are things that do happen every election and maybe by both sides cause there are millions of people participating in an election and you can look at all the people living right around you in your own town and see the difference in those people.  There are always a couple.  That is not mass fraud on only one side which is a different animal and not proved at all by binnalls statements and he only made a statement but did not provide documents you say he has.   Even mistakes don't add up to conspiracy and could go either way on who got the vote.  Enough to make a difference in an election would take more than a mistake here or there.   He has provide no conspiracy that could effect what was a normal election.

You say you don't believe the justice system is corrupt and then you do say it is cause lin wood says it is.  He also told all the republicans not to vote in a run off.  Maybe they will listen huh?  I bet they are not that dumb myself.
You think all those republican senators and congress  members are willing to give up their won seats and have a new election based on what binnall and wood say?
Cheers
gww
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: Ben Framed on December 28, 2020, 07:31:58 pm
>gww
Ben
I go back to the math question I mentioned before of it being a billion to one for biden to be able to catch up. The guy saying it was telling the truth on what the math said but left out the fact that the math question was based on if the vote margins stayed the same which they did not because they never do stay the same from one election to the next.  The margins change based on who the candidates are.


Wrong again READ, do not guess at what was said in Mr Binalls statement of evidence in reply 35 and please do not misrepresent it. This statement is not never land where one can change the wording simply because one may wish the words were not there. 
"Jesse Binall
:Our data scientist made these calculations, NOT BY ESTIMATIONS OR STATISTICAL STAND POINTS but by analyzing the list of ACTUAL voters with other list which are PUBLICLY available.""  (billions was never mentioned in this statement in reply 35 but the 130,000 corrupt votes found was mentioned and is what referred to here.) MUM 😁

I can not force you to read the statement of Jesse Binall, nor believe it if you have, or even understand it if you have. Nor do I have much hope that you or many of the left will look at such evidence but instead continue to ignore such.  Evidence ignored once again, not by a court, or judge, but by a fellow citizen. 
I have stood on the wall, I have sounded the shofar, but apparently on deaf ears when it comes to this matter.

> You say you don't believe the justice system is corrupt and then you do say it is cause lin wood says it is.
Cheers

Wrong another false accusation, that is not what I said.... There you go again.
You have once again attempted twisting my words with untruth. Don't forget gww they are posted for all the world to see. Your twisting and changing them will not profit you.  I did not say that, though you may say abra ka driba hokus pokus change Bens' and try to make it such.  Let me ask you, are you of any relation to Jimmy Carter? 

Referring to your statement gww > "Your position relies on all the election officials and judges all the way up to the supreme court as being part of a crooked fraud." and earlier " Your position relies on all the election officials and judges all the way up to the supreme court as being part of a crooked fraud.  I am not buying such nonsense."

I did say, referring to the first part.
"I would hope the courts are not tainted or corrupt. However; Me or you buying it or not buying it does not make it true or untrue. I will ask you again as I have asked you numerously;  Is Jesse Binnall lying? Surely the courts are not corrupt? As you say this may be the only possibly. Have you ever heard of such? Have you considered they may be corrupt all the way to the Supreme Court as you just mentioned? You may not be the only one who would have these questions of corruption to the top. Though it shudders me to think of such. Attorney Lin Wood has alleged such. He claims or alleges he has such proof. Not only he but others. If so, I for one wish to see this evidence! But of course, if you can not see the OCEAN of evidence already produced, how could you ever believe Lin Woods most serious allegations of corruption of certain SCJustices even if such evidence will be made public.
Perhaps before answering the question (Is Jesse Binall lying) you may wish to review his statement shown in reply 35 once more...."

It amazes me how you on the left change words to benefit your agenda even to the point of stealing an election...  We see it each and every day on the news especially the leftist news. And in every walk of life, Truth be danged!!!

PS Once again Is Jesse Binall lying?
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: gww on December 28, 2020, 08:28:23 pm
Ben
Ok, for the record, you admit in your belief that the courts are corrupt even though you hope not.

I on the other hand do not believe that all the courts that were presented stuff are corrupt.  You say I twisted words and all the world will see it.  I say your response with the lin wood in it was based on my previous statement inferring  that you had to believe that every body was crooked for you to give credence to binnall's claims.  By your response to this accusation of mine you said you hope not but than said you might.  Why screw around and not just say you believe they are all corrupts.  I didn't mix a bunch of words telling you that I did not buy that.  You are correct, the whole world can see this.  I can live with that and even may be happy with that.  Let the people read and take what they will.  Other wise they may be bamboozled into thinking all the judges and election officials might be crooked by just having your statement to read..  I could see one judge being crooked just like one citizen might cheat but do not believe the whole system is corrupt.

You mentioned my math problem and attributed it binnell statement.  You being up on all this should have heard about that math problem way before binnall testimony.  I did not attribute it to him but just showed some supposed evidence that was presented earlier to show that binnall statements might be worth putting in context cause these misleading talking points were what his ilk is pedaling.  He was pedaling 70.000 voters to the 690,000 voters in two different elections as if that fact on its own with out what untoward thing caused it means anything.  It is not fraud just cause you are mad that more people voted.  You accuse that I did not read his statement.  Where do you come off?  Did I tell you that?  You are kinda like the pot calling the kettle black if you are pointing out somebody is going to get read for making things up  don't you think?

What I did say is that some of the stuff he is pedaling is getting debunked by courts and news media.

You ask about whether I say binnall was lying.  That is like asking me if I think you are lying.  You might believe this cockamamie you are spreading cause you don't have enough info or might be delusional or you might not care and just have an agenda.  How could I tell the difference from here.   

Binnall is a supposed lawyer who went to school to learn how to phrase things in a fashion that would keep him from crossing the line into perjury.  Doesn't mean he isn't a payed advocate to make the most out of all he can. 
I might consider it lying but the courts might have a different standard which is why they ask some like kind lawyers in court if they were presenting evidence of fraud and those lawyers put in that spot directly by judges said no even though they threw it around in their opening arguments. 
Cheers
gww
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: Ben Framed on December 28, 2020, 10:33:18 pm
>Ben
>Ok, for the record, you admit in your belief that the courts are corrupt even though you hope not.

Those are your words not mine. I admit you are attempting at twisting my words even again, I am beginning to wonder if  you are simply trolling or really serious? Did you not just read my words?

> I say your response with the lin wood in it was based on my previous statement inferring  that you had to believe that for you to give credence to binnall's claims.

I am not giving credence to his claims. If you will slow down, read carefully, you see what I said referring to Attorney Lin Woods' claims "it shudders me to think of such." Meaning surely he is mistaken!  I also said if so I want to see the evidence. I will now add; If his claims are true, I would think everyone else would want to see this alleged evidence also? Wouldn't you?  The reality is some are still rejecting clear evidence such as given under oath by Jesse Binnall before the Senate Homeland Security hearing on election fraud. What about you? For the record, do you believe the evidence given by Mr Binall is lies?

> You accuse that I did not read his statement.

You are once again "mistaken" and wrong.
Quoting myself "I can not force you to read the statement of Jesse Binall, nor believe it if you have, or even understand it if you have." My meaning here is was if you have read it gww. I was not intending to suggest you have not read it that is why I put the comma.

> It is not fraud just cause you are mad that more people voted. 

You are again mistaken.  It is my opinion based on not only Mr Binalls testimony, but many many others, plenty of folks voted. More than enough to assure Mr Trump clearly won the election. Considering evidence of Mr Binall and many many others.
And furthermore speak for yourself,  I'm not mad, in fact I am just getting warmed up.

> What I did say is that some of the stuff he is pedaling is getting debunked by courts and news media.

Yes that is what you say. But not what Mr Binall says. He says just the opposite. Must I quote him once again? OK here you go. "Our evidence has never been refuted; only Ignored." Jesse Binnall. Notice I put ignored in red so you would not miss it this time.

>You ask about whether I say binnall was lying.  That is like asking me if I think you are lying.  You might believe this cockamamie you are spreading cause you don't have enough info or might be delusional or you might not care and just have an agenda.  How could I tell the difference from here. 

As far as your misleading accusation of me being delusional or might not care or just have an agenda. I am simply chasing facts, not fiction that the left is peddling. If I did not care I would not be so diligently seeking the truth, . As far as cockamamie as you put it that I am spreading; I am spreading nothing. Another attack and false accusation. I am telling you what Mr Binall has stated under oath. Your continued false accusations and personal attacks on me will profit you nothing. As far as you asking, how could I tell the difference from here? Sadly, I really don't know if some are capable of seeing the truth. I hope that does not include you.  But the first thing you can do in seeking the truth as far as the election situation is concerned: Start with Mr Binalls testimony before the Senate as sworn under oath and check out the facts for yourself EVERYTHING look them up which he posted. All is found in the avenues he stated. I surely welcome truthful information I really hope you do as well? I am supposing anyone with good judgement can plainly see Mr Binall is truthful because of the evidence his hard working team has gathered under stress in a very short time with opposition of courts and officials at each turn as he stated in his report. This evidence given thus far with backing. Plenty information has been posted here since the mystery of halting of vote counting on election night. The ocean of evidence.



> What I did say is that some of the stuff he is pedaling is getting debunked by courts and news media.

As far as courts, I have not read or heard from any court that has debunked one word of what Mr Binall said in his sworn statement. Where did you find this, let me in on it please.. Which court has debunked a word of Mr Binnalls' statement. I am defending Mr Binall against (obvious predigest) here in our little debate. Attack on. lol Media, you mean the same media which falsely accused Trump of collusion with the Russians night and day. We know how that went. Fake NO EVIDENCE, UNLIKE what we have here; EVIDENCE Unless Binall and many many more are flat out lying.

 
>Binnall is a supposed lawyer who whet to school to learn how to phrase things in a fashion that would keep him from crossing the line into perjury.  Doesn't mean he isn't a payed advocate to make the most out of all he can.

It doesn't take a genius to present the evidence he has presented under oath. It does take Guts, he has both brains and guts...

Cheers
Ben
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: gww on December 28, 2020, 11:34:01 pm
ben
I have no problem if somebody cheats and is caught and punished for it.  That is how it is supposed to work.  That is the only way that my little one vote really counts.  However, that includes trying to suppress votes in their use the legal system.  I feel lucky that the legal system seems to be working.  I am smart enough to know that a quarter of a billion can by a whole bunch of legal guns.  Your position still relies on the legal system being broke.  There is nothing stopping binnal of using the legal system and the legal system seems to be part of his complaint.  I am pretty sure these lawyer teams have every drop of binnalls so called evidence.
Quote from you:
Quote
As far as courts, I have not read or heard from any court that has debunked one word of what Mr Binall said in his sworn statement.

From binnall himself:
Quote
When we filed suit, state officials , even courts delayed proceedings for days then offered us merely hours to brief and argue our cases.
Please don't tell me nobody has heard his stuff.

Again, it comes down to the fact that you have to believe every official is crooked to take his statement too far.

If biden cheated to win, I would be angry but he did not.  The only one wanting to cheat is trump and he said this was what he was going to do even before the election.  If he was nothing else, he was clear in pre-warning every one.  He has tried hard since then but has only accomplished misleading some people on how strong his case is.  The system is holding against his attack.

Russian collusion.  All I know for sure besides the muller report is that during senate confirmation several appointees did lie and have to correct statements on their contacts with russia at the very beginning of trumps term.  Hmm, why lie and that obstruct.  This is probably part of the reason biden got 80 million votes.

I did not like it but figured even if people were influenced by russian profaganda, they were still the ones that pulled the lever and so trump won.  Funny thing about voting is we have the right to hurt our selves.  So I accepted the election.

However, that is over and we are talking this election. 

Now, for what ever reason, biden got the most votes. 

Biden is and will be president for better or worse.

The american system is working properly and the whole system is not corrupt.
Anyway
Cheers
gww
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: Ben Framed on December 29, 2020, 12:22:23 am
ben
I have no problem if somebody cheats and is caught and punished for it.  That is how it is supposed to work.  That is the only way that my little one vote really counts.  However, that includes trying to suppress votes in their use the legal system.  I feel lucky that the legal system seems to be working.  I am smart enough to know that a quarter of a billion can by a whole bunch of legal guns.  Your position still relies on the legal system being broke.  There is nothing stopping binnal of using the legal system and the legal system seems to be part of his complaint.  I am pretty sure these lawyer teams have every drop of binnalls so called evidence.
Quote from you:
Quote
As far as courts, I have not read or heard from any court that has debunked one word of what Mr Binall said in his sworn statement.

From binnall himself:
Quote
When we filed suit, state officials , even courts delayed proceedings for days then offered us merely hours to brief and argue our cases.
Please don't tell me nobody has heard his stuff.

Again, it comes down to the fact that you have to believe every official is crooked to take his statement too far.

If biden cheated to win, I would be angry but he did not.  The only one wanting to cheat is trump and he said this was what he was going to do even before the election.  If he was nothing else, he was clear in pre-warning every one.  He has tried hard since then but has only accomplished misleading some people on how strong his case is.  The system is holding against his attack.

Russian collusion.  All I know for sure besides the muller report is that during senate confirmation several appointees did lie and have to correct statements on their contacts with russia at the very beginning of trumps term.  Hmm, why lie and that obstruct.  This is probably part of the reason biden got 80 million votes.

I did not like it but figured even if people were influenced by russian profaganda, they were still the ones that pulled the lever and so trump won.  Funny thing about voting is we have the right to hurt our selves.  So I accepted the election.

However, that is over and we are talking this election. 

Now, for what ever reason, biden got the most votes. 

Biden is and will be president for better or worse.

The american system is working properly and the whole system is not corrupt.
Anyway
Cheers
gww


>  I am smart enough to know that a quarter of a billion can by a whole bunch of legal guns.

Hum very interesting, what is your meaning here? Who is footing the money, who will receive these "legal" guns? The left? Why all of a sudden are you bringing guns into the picture of this debate? Is this some kind of twisted threat? You may have some explaining to do?

> Your position still relies on the legal system being broke.

Bunkum. I have stated what Mr Binall has stated.

> From binnall himself:
   Quote
   When we filed suit, state officials , even courts delayed proceedings for days then offered us merely hours to brief and
   argue our cases. >Please don't tell me nobody has heard his stuff.

I haven't that told you any such thing that I can recall. Ignore is the word.
I did not say the courts have not heard his evidence, that I can recall, but have said time and time again, his evidence has been ignored. Once again and how many times?  "Our evidence has never been refuted; only Ignored." Jesse Binnall

ig?nore
/iɡˈn?r/
Learn to pronounce
verb
past tense: ignored; past participle: ignored
refuse to take notice of or acknowledge; disregard intentionally.
"he ignored her outraged question"
Similar:disregard, take no notice of, pay no attention to, pay no heed to, pass over, shut one's eyes to, be oblivious to
turn a blind eye to, turn a deaf ear to, brush aside, shrug off, push aside, never mind, look the other way, snub, slight,
spurn, shun, disdain, look right through, look past, turn one's back on, give someone the cold shoulder, freeze out, steer clear of, send to Coventry, give someone the brush-off, knock back, give someone the go-by, set aside, take no account of
veto,break,contravene,fail to comply with,fail to observe,disobey,breach,defy,flout,fly in the face of,omit,leave out,bypass,
overlook,neglect,exclude,skip,fail to consider (something significant).

 

> Again, it comes down to the fact that you have to believe every official is crooked to take his statement too far.

So you say.

>However, that is over and we are talking this election.

That is what I was talking about until you once again brought up the media in your last post. Hum

> Now, for what ever reason, biden got the most votes.

He most certainly did. " for what ever reason" does not matter to you?

>  Biden is and will be president for better or worse.

He most certainly is not.....   Not until January 20, is the inauguration Date. Unless that falls on a Sunday, in which case the date is moved to January 21. But don't you count on it! You on the left have forgotten a major point. Obama and team spied on Trump before and after the election, even after he became President, illegally. Most likely hoping to find anything in order that the left could go to the Constitution for correction. It may very well be that the United States Intelligence has done the same? But legally. Who knows who and what might have been uncovered just waiting on the President to go to the Constitution for correction of all misdoings collected of all these "citizens". I don't know.
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: gww on December 29, 2020, 12:58:18 am
Come on ben, You ain't going to crazy town now are you.  You understand english and slang.  You know what legal guns means in this context I mean come on, lawyers of course..  I know I am not wasting my time on somebody that far gone that they can try to turn that statement into something else.  You also know that trump has collected over a quarter of a billion in legal fund donations. I've only mentioned this fund several times in previous post.  Don't play dumb on this cause it does not help your case cause like you mentioned earlier, every one can read this.

You definitions:  Maybe the courts ignored, disregarded cause there was no legal there, there.  Really pretty simple.

You went way out on you last statement.  I guess all I can say is come on jan 20 so that you are no longer in doubt of who is in the white house and whos signatures count on bill and laws. 
Cheers
gww
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: Ben Framed on December 29, 2020, 01:16:09 am
Come on ben, You ain't going to crazy town now are you.  You understand english and slang.  You know what legal guns means in this context I mean come on, lawyers of course..  I know I am not wasting my time on somebody that far gone that they can try to turn that statement into something else.  You also know that trump has collected over a quarter of a billion in legal fund donations.  Don't play dumb on this cause it does not help your case cause like you mentioned earlier, every one can read this.

You definitions:  Maybe the courts ignored, disregarded cause there was no legal there, there.  Really pretty simple.

You went way out on you last statement.  I guess all I can say is come on jan 20 so that you are no longer in doubt of who is in the white house and whos signatures count on bill and laws. 
Cheers
gww

I took you statement word for word. For me questioning you of your word for word, was not unreasonable. In return, you again attacked me personally. What you originally said is obvious, no slang there, no indication of it from my seat. Legal guns are what we the people own as guaranteed in the Second amendment.  Your man has already stated he will buy back certain types of what is now legal guns. Which is a whole other topic.  So again I ask you, what is your meaning here? "Who is footing the money, who will receive these "legal" guns once bought? The left? Why all of a sudden are you bringing guns into the picture of this debate? Is this some kind of twisted threat?",  these were my original questions. Since you have chosen to attach my charter instead of explaining as a gentlemen should. I will take it that is your last "slang" post, (The lawyer bit), is your way of explaining? Hum
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: Ben Framed on December 29, 2020, 01:30:49 am
gww I have enjoyed our little debate but I am getting sleepy. I have a big day tomorrow so there won't be much time for debate. Do not worry, I am not bugging out on you so don't take it so. You can take all the free shots at me that you wish tomorrow, but remember I will be back! lol. Good night  :grin:
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: gww on December 29, 2020, 01:53:21 am
ben
Maybe that is why you have such belief that you are getting robbed.  Instead of taking things in context of the whole conversation where all the above were part of the same conversation, you went by the specific words instead of context.  Even though the whole picture is there you looked at one part of it and took it out of context.  I did not impugn you in more than that which is what you did.  How could you forget the quarter billion legal fund that was mentioned in several post above and leap to just the actual words when the minute you seen the quarter billion mentioned again you should have knew.

Secondly, you have no issue impugning in many of your post.  I mean really, when you say I am not going to address all the double talk in your post.  Is that not impugning and now your feelings are hurt and you are the only gentleman.  Don't worry about it, I have thick skin and know we don't agree and I could still have this conversation and you or I will not lose money or get hurt during it even with a little impugning. :happy:

Secondly, having a good paid lawyer and going to court is how we solve problems that come up in america. If you get an outcome in court that you don't like, that does not mean you were ignored, it means you had your day and put on a case that lost.  That is how it works.

Lastly, Both of us are saying who is going to be president on jan twenty and I am saying that it is going to be biden based on evidence under the rules of constitution. 

I don't really know about the gentleman thing, I just say what I believe and make my points the best I can.
Cheers
gww
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: Ben Framed on December 30, 2020, 11:12:38 am
> You mentioned my math problem and attributed it binnell statement.  You being up on all this should have heard about that math problem way before binnall testimony.

To be fair, I did not pay any attention to the math problem that you mentioned before. Only enough to make you aware that my concern is Jesse Binalls' evidence, being the context of my point of view of this debate, which is based on solid concrete old fashion detective work. Not math problems which have absolutely nothing to do with his presented evidence.  His sworn statement and its context has been the center of my focus since reply 27 as you well know. Just to be clear, Mr Binalls statement made it clear, leaving no doubt, that his evidence does not rely on math problems to support his facts in the tallies of his solid evidence found in the Nevada voter fraud investigation. A total of 130,000 existing fraudulent, ILLEGITIMATE votes found and uncovered in Nevada alone, yet sadly, this evidence continues to be ignored . Mr Binalls facts have been the core of context in this debate from my standpoint.  Your math problems are totally irrelevant and out of the realm of the context if you may suggest otherwise.  He and his crew reached these tallies not by estimations or statistical stand points, but by analyzing the list of ACTUAL voters with other list which are PUBLICLY available. He and his team went to great pain, explaining how each illegal vote was uncovered. It is not my intention to hurt your feeling but to be clear. I do not intend to leave the center of the context of this debate for your smoke blowing, of some mathematical problems which have absolutely nothing to do with the context of this subject being  (Jesse Binalls; statement)  However, We can separate the two, your math problems, and my stance of defending Jesse Binall, as they are clearly two different subjects. But if you wish to have your math problem answered, I will refer you to the topic "Why Trump should be redacted. A Christmas story in endless parts." Reply 16. Sidney Powell will do that. 


> You also know that trump has collected over a quarter of a billion  in legal fund donations. I've only mentioned this fund several times in previous post.

You have mentioned this a grand total of once in this debate is all I have found looking back. Even so, that one time statement is irreverent, and why I never commented on it in the first place, it is out of context of the grand picture of the debate, it changes nothing of what Mr Binall stated under oath. Be it One Trillion dollars or 38 cents, donated to Mr Trumps defence fund, it changes absolutely not one smidgin of evidence brought forth by Mr Binall.  Totally Irrelevant and out of context. Perhaps after Mr Binalls Sworn statement you may wish to donate also? 
 :smile:


> ben
Maybe that is why you have such belief that you are getting robbed.  Instead of taking things in context of the whole conversation where all the above were part of the same conversation,

No, wrong again. The reason that I have suspicion that the United States of America may be getting robbed is because of good investigative work done by folks like Jesse Binall for one, which has boldly dug and presented facts and clear evidence under oath to the senate so plainly anyone reading without predigest, should understand. Or for that matter even someone harboring predigest against Mr Binall, should understand. If they read closely and EXAMINE his statement.

> You went way out on you last statement.  I guess all I can say is come on jan 20 so that you are no longer in doubt of who is in the white house and whos signatures count on bill and laws.

Not really, I ended with  "I don't know."  After I had wrote of things that might need to be considered.

> Lastly, Both of us are saying who is going to be president on jan twenty and I am saying that it is going to be biden based on evidence under the rules of constitution.

There you go again..  ATTEMPTING to put words in my mouth with your assumptions, and broadcast it as fact:  Again I will not allow you to unjustly do so; When have I claimed, either Trump or Biden, will be ingratiated January 20? Ah-ah-ah, once again I remind you, look closely, read the words, do not imagine. You; Have said as much, not I. One more thing, you may want to read the Constitution a lit-tle closer as well.

> I don't really know about the gentleman thing, I just say what I believe and make my points the best I can.

As you should. But it may benefit you to expand your "news sources" a person can not get a clear picture of what is going on by listening to only one side of any situation. 
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: gww on December 30, 2020, 01:20:37 pm
ben
Even though there are legitimate reasons why binnells supposed allegations might have legitimate reasons for the numbers from public records to show as they do. Like his people from out of state voting.  Many people have jobs and vacation homes in more that one state but like the president picking Florida have a designated home.  He just makes a blanket statement with no meaning or proof of underlaying fact.

Secondly, he does not indicate in any fashion of who all those claimed fraudulent voters voted for.

I do not hold your views against you any more than I would hold jim jones followers veiws against them for being able to be misled. 

lastly, I did in a different thread also mention to you that I hoped you were not making donations to trumps defense fund cause giving your money to the poor would be much more righteous.
 
If you can not remember you are talking to an individual person in a relations ship than I can see where you would go by only the words written and also why you might not be able to break things down past just the words to see the meaning also and also maybe the things that might make the words mean more that the plaing words say.  This would be a handy trait if you really wanted to know the truth behind what binnall is using and trying to do.   
Cheers
gww

Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: Ben Framed on December 30, 2020, 03:12:38 pm
You have said in reply 42
> If biden cheated to win, I would be angry

Bunkum You are still going along with it as clear evidence has been given By Mr Binall.


>Even though there are legitimate reasons why binnells supposed allegations might have legitimate reasons for the numbers from public records to show as they do. Like his people from out of state voting.  Many people have jobs and vacation homes in more that one state but like the president picking Florida have a designated home.  He just makes a blanket statement with no meaning or proof of underlaying fact.

He did not say an additional address of a summer home or homes, or a person working in another state. He did say Persons who have Officially filled a Change of address through the Postal System. Once a person officially changes his or her address through the Postal System of change of address, he or she is obligated to vote in the district that the official address of change was made too. He or she is not allowed to vote at a vacation home address though he or she may receive mail at such a location, unless that person or persons has officially filed through the Postal Service as the NEW change of address.  This includes workers who may work in one state yet receiving mail in that state of employment. He of she still may vote back in their home state as long as they have NOT OFFICIALLY made a change of address through the postal service. There may be workers who have worked in numerous states who have made an Official change of address several times. Even so they can vote only once. That vote being at the last Official Change of address.  If they choose to vote additionally in each past residences or states they may have registered in at one time or another this is FRAUD. You are only allowed to vote once! Again what you suggest is pure bunkum. Mr Binall clearly pointed out this fraud and you are clearly attempting to debunk it. How many addresses are you registered to vote? How many times have you filed and Official change of address? How many times did you vote in this election? 
Apparently you did not READ this Mr Binalls statement. He did not refer to vacation homes, or people out of state working, He is speaking of of official residence.

"Here is what we found. Over 42,000: 42,000 PEOPLE voted more than once. Our experts were able to make this determination by REVIEWING the list of actual voters in comparing it to others with the same Name, Address, and Date of Birth. This method was able to catch people using different variations of the first name such as William and Bill and individuals who both registered both under a married name and a maiden name."

"At least 1,500 dead people are recorded as voting as shown BY COMPARING the list of mail voters with the social security DEATH RECORDS."

"More than 19.000 people voted even though they did not live in Nevada. This DOES NOT include military voters or students.  These voters were Identified by comparing the list of voters in the US Postal National Change of address data base among other sources."

" About 8,000 people voted from non-existent address.  Here we cross reference voters with the coding accuracy support system. Which allowed out experts to identify UNDELIVERABLE ADDRESSES."

"Over 15,000 voters were cast from commercial or VACANT address. Our experts found these voters by analyzing  OFFICIAL US postal records that FLAG non residential address in addresses vacant more than 90 days." 

"INCREDIBLY almost 4,000 non-citizens also voted. As determined by comparing official DMV records of NON-CITIZENS from the list of ACTUAL voters.  The list goes on and on. All in all, our experts identify 130,000 UNIQUE instances of  voter fraud In Nevada but the actual number is almost certainly higher."


> I do not hold your views against you any more than I would hold jim jones followers veiws against them for being able to be misled.

That is mighty kind of you but who is trying to mislead who? Is your last name Jones? And furthermore, I am really getting tired of your unfounded personal attacks.

> lastly, I did in a different thread also mention to you that I hoped you were not making donations to trumps defense fund cause giving your money to the poor would be much more righteous.

You may or may not have mentioned it in another thread or topic, maybe on another subject or on another day, another week, month or year. It is not my responsibility to keep up with all your post of every topic and post which you may have posted. As I stated before here on THIS topic which is the topic of context of this debate.  I will once again remind you quoting "  You have mentioned this a grand total of once in this debate is all I have found looking back. Even so, that one time statement is irreverent, and why I never commented on it in the first place, it is out of context of the grand picture of the debate, it changes nothing of what Mr Binall stated under oath. Be it One Trillion dollars or 38 cents, donated to Mr Trumps defence fund, it changes absolutely not one smidgin of evidence brought forth by Mr Binall.  Totally Irrelevant and out of context. Perhaps after Mr Binalls Sworn statement you may wish to donate also?
 :smile:

> If you can not remember you are talking to an individual person in a relations ship than I can see where you would go by only the words written and also why you might not be able to break things down past just the words to see the meaning also and also maybe the things that might make the words mean more that the plaing words say.  This would be a handy trait if you really wanted to know the truth behind what binnall is using and trying to do.   
Cheers
gww

I have no clue as to what that is suppose to mean,  I am only taking a shot in the dark while trying to answer.
Honestly, I do not know what you can see, or if clearly, even when truth has clearly been pointed out, even By Mr Binall.







Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: gww on December 30, 2020, 03:31:07 pm
ben
This is is untrue. 
Quote
Once a person officially changes his or her address through the Postal System of change of address, he or she is obligated to vote in the district that the official address of change was made too
 
You can change where you mail is delivered short or long term and it would have nothing to do with where you vote.  I know people who change it for a two week vacation.

The fund is not out of line to mention if binnall is being a paid advocate.  That would have to be part of the equation of motive of what he is pushing and that it should not be taken at face value.  He wasn't paid enough to get a court to agree with him.
Cheers
gww
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: Ben Framed on December 30, 2020, 04:17:11 pm
ben
This is is untrue. 
Quote
Once a person officially changes his or her address through the Postal System of change of address, he or she is obligated to vote in the district that the official address of change was made too
 
You can change where you mail is delivered short or long term and it would have nothing to do with where you vote.  I know people who change it for a two week vacation.

The fund is not out of line to mention if binnall is being a paid advocate.  That would have to be part of the equation of motive of what he is pushing and that it should not be taken at face value.  He wasn't paid enough to get a court to agree with him.
Cheers
gww

Wrong again: Read gww read what you just quoted from me. Open your eyes. It does nor say mail can not be forwarded to another address. either long or short term. It said, Once a person Officially changes his or her address through the Postal System of change of address, he or she is obligated to vote in the district that the official address of change was made too  I said as much in post 50. Vacationers can receive mail at the vacation home. Workers can receive main in different states. No wonder our country is in the shape it is in and may be headed too!  Read the previous post!
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: gww on December 30, 2020, 05:49:18 pm
ben
Simply not true depending on the state law.  Many allow same day registration and provisional ballot.  You can be out of country and vote.  You can move with in the county and not change an address and still vote.  The claim would need some factual violation and not just a biased veiw of some public record.
I submit how this was handled by the courts.
https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/20421618/supreme-court-order_trump-election-contest.pdf

It went to four courts.
Come on man, even the courts were dubious about the methodology of how they placed value on what binnalls team had come up with.

Cheers
gww

Ps Navada has put out a fact versus myth sheet on some of these allegations but you would have to really be looking for facts to be able to understand it.  Just going by the actual word with out putting situational meaning might still get you no where.  There is letter of the law and intent of the law.
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: Ben Framed on December 30, 2020, 09:57:47 pm
ben
Simply not true depending on the state law.  Many allow same day registration and provisional ballot.  You can be out of country and vote.  You can move with in the county and not change an address and still vote.  The claim would need some factual violation and not just a biased veiw of some public record.
I submit how this was handled by the courts.
https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/20421618/supreme-court-order_trump-election-contest.pdf

It went to four courts.
Come on man, even the courts were dubious about the methodology of how they placed value on what binnalls team had come up with.

Cheers
gww

Ps Navada has put out a fact versus myth sheet on some of these allegations but you would have to really be looking for facts to be able to understand it.  Just going by the actual word with out putting situational meaning might still get you no where.  There is letter of the law and intent of the law.



>Simply not true depending on the state law. Many allow same day registration and provisional ballot.

Well there you go again.... Which part of what I said is "Simply not true". Simply Because you addad " Many allow same day registration and provisional ballot." does not make what I said un-true.

>Many allow same day registration and provisional ballot.

They most certainly do... But under SPECIFIC guidelines. Part of the most basic proof STARTS with; OFFICIAL proof of residence. And how does one prove this? By filing for such through the United States of America Postal Service, Which is then added to the official change of address data bank. Which is the VERY PLACE WHERE the respected ATTORNEY BINALL gathered much of of his most valuable information of wrongful out of state voting.  Just because one may receive mail when forwarded to a temporary address no matter how long the length of time, does not mean this person qualifies to vote from that temporary address to be allowed to register to vote in that district.. If you know of a state which does allow this kind of double dealing, you may wish to get intouch with Mr Binall so he can add this valuable information to his list of fraud.  Goodness man.

> Ps Navada has put out a fact versus myth sheet on some of these allegations but you would have to really be looking for facts to be able to understand it.  Just going by the actual word with out putting situational meaning might still get you no where.  There is letter of the law and intent of the law.

IS that so. Mr Binalls facts speak for themself. Even you, throughout this entire lengthy debate, refuse to accuse Mr Binalls report of being a lie. Why is that? I suppose the reason is obvious. All you have said is, he said this about it or she said that about it. Read it for yourself Man. 
I will ask you again; Is Mr Binalls report a lie, but this time I will take it a step further. Is any part of Mr Binlls statement to the Senate Homeland Security hearing on election fraud, UNDER OATH a lie?

PS I opened your 40 page report. Where in particular does this this report show proof of false hood by Attorney Binalls' testimony before the the Senate Homeland Security hearing on election fraud; which I posted in reply 27 and 35. What part proves he is lying? 
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: gww on December 30, 2020, 10:33:53 pm
ben
I did not say what you wrote was a lie, I said your point that binnals statement meant what it is implying about the addresses is wrong if his meaning is that it means fraud unless he has the specifics that prove it.  You of course knew I meant that but your game is avoiding discussing the merit of what you say you want to discuss.  You either have a blind spot or like to just play games.  Lets take the one little thing on addresses.  If he looks up a few numbers on public records and says they are there, he is probably not lying.  If however, he says those numbers mean something but can not prove they mean that, than he can not be relied on as a excuse to say something is wrong.  I seem to have to be making the same point over and over to somebody who just can not get it.  You keep accusing me of lying about you but that is only cause you are being too dense to get the points I am making.  You instead, just ignore said mentioned points and go back to "Is binnall lying".

You are welcome to believe binnall on this and to discount the underlying reasons that the info may not mean what you are taking from it but it will not change the facts as the majority of the public and the courts look at it.

It does not help you going through life feeling like you got screwed when the facts indicate you did not but that is your burden and I believe a burden that a little time and distance from you feelings will allow you to come to the truth if that is what you are really looking for.
Cheers
gww

Ps some states allow the voter to cast a provisional ballot at the polling place not involving the post office at all.  Some want an eclectic bill or something.  Don't be so sure of you self on how things really work.
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: Ben Framed on December 31, 2020, 01:17:39 am
ben
I did not say what you wrote was a lie, I said your point that binnals statement meant what it is implying about the addresses is wrong if his meaning is that it means fraud unless he has the specifics that prove it.  You of course knew I meant that but your game is avoiding discussing the merit of what you say you want to discuss.  You either have a blind spot or like to just play games.  Lets take the one little thing on addresses.  If he looks up a few numbers on public records and says they are there, he is probably not lying.  If however, he says those numbers mean something but can not prove they mean that, than he can not be relied on as a excuse to say something is wrong.  I seem to have to be making the same point over and over to somebody who just can not get it.  You keep accusing me of lying about you but that is only cause you are being too dense to get the points I am making.  You instead, just ignore said mentioned points and go back to "Is binnall lying".

You are welcome to believe binnall on this and to discount the underlying reasons that the info may not mean what you are taking from it but it will not change the facts as the majority of the public and the courts look at it.

It does not help you going through life feeling like you got screwed when the facts indicate you did not but that is your burden and I believe a burden that a little time and distance from you feelings will allow you to come to the truth if that is what you are really looking for.
Cheers
gww

Ps some states allow the voter to cast a provisional ballot at the polling place not involving the post office at all.  Some want an eclectic bill or something.  Don't be so sure of you self on how things really work.


If a person lives in a particular state, and is registered to vote there, then moves to another state, files a LEGAL change of address in the new state with the postal service. He is no longer a legal resident of the old state but a legal resident of the new state. period.....  Even if he owns 10 homes in the same district of the old state. If he is sent a mail in ballot from the original state because his name is still on the voter registration books there, as example in the case the books there may have not been updated, yet votes in the original state from which by the ballot was sent, by mail, He has voted in a state which he has claimed to have left his primary residency per his Legal Change of Address. A state which he is no longer a legal resident. This is the last time I will try to explain it to you. Mr Binall uncovered this through the CHANGE of address data base. The mail in ballots should have never been mailed to folks in other states once they had filled an official Postal change of address in their new state. (Again, I am not talking a bout a forwarded address) This is the issue Mr Binall has and is valid unless the law has changed.  I can not put it any plainer or clearer. Even if a person my have 25 vacation houses in 25 states, does not allow him or her the right to vote 25 times.
" These voters were Identified by comparing the list of voters in the US Postal National Change of address data base among other sources." Jesse Binall.

>You keep accusing me of lying about you but that is only cause you are being too dense to get the points I am making.

I have not once said you were lying. I have however pointed out time and again the many times you were wrong when you misrepresented what you continue to  perceive as my thoughts and sometimes you misrepresent my words. In  such cases,  I have replied to you, wrong, or there you go again, or that is untrue. I have that right to correct your wrong interpretations as well as your wrong assumptions and accusations when directed at me. Which seems to be very regularly with you. (even now for example). I have been very careful throughout this entire debate of not calling you names or using insulting words which may be interpreted as or  degrading you and your person. I feel I have made valid points whether you can see them or not. 

> You of course knew I meant that but your game is avoiding discussing the merit of what you say you want to discuss. You either have a blind spot or like to just play games.

See there you go again. Another Pinocchio. lol

> You are welcome to believe binnall on this and to discount the underlying reasons that the info may not mean.

I believe every word of what Attorney Binall said in the statement of reply 27 and 35.

I have given you every opportunity through out this entire debate to show me where Mr Binalls report is untrue, false, or otherwise misleading. I have not found anything erroneous in his statement.
Being his report is the context of my reason for debating with you in the first place. Said report, in my opinion is important. We are talking about the possible fraud on an entire Nation, My Nation and yours. This is nothing to argue about or play games. We all need to know the truth regardless of where the chips may fall or what party we may belong to or support. I have graciously given you every opportunity to show me where his statement is flawed. You have failed to do so. A word of advise, you will not win someone over by calling he or she names, or by insulting, or using degrading remarks. Only by legitimately refuting any part of what Mr. Binall stated as a lie, could you have brought me over to you side and way of thinking of any part proven wrong. This whole debate was an honest attempt of asking you is to show me where Mr Binall is wrong or lying in his  report. You have failed. I have nothing further to say to you on this subject. 
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: gww on December 31, 2020, 02:10:18 am
ben
You first paragraph is how you interpret the law.  That does not mean that that is the intent of the law and how it is interpreted by the previous court ruling and such around that law that give the true meaning to the law.  It is previous enforcement that give value to any law.  Most of those enforcements balance against other laws that are also on the books.  I know you can read but that does not guarantee that you know how the law works.
I showed you a few exceptions that could make just numbers taken from some where not mean what is being implied that they mean.  The courts have agreed with where I am on this.  The courts are where problems of law are addressed.  Binnall is claiming he went to court and lost even in his own statement.
Cheers
gww
Ps  I wonder if one of those non-citizen voters was one of the ones that trump made a big deal out of naturalizing at the republican convention.  I am sure their naturalization would not have been reflected in the records binnall was showing cause it was in between the time of when they got their drivers license renewed.  He used a record that means nothing to insinuate something and did not find actual people behind those records that did anything wrong. 

I believe there is advice in the bible that say if a profit is wrong once than he is not a profit of god.  But you go ahead and believe binnals statement and expect everyone to disprove it before you find the truth that  you state is all you really want, When in fact, it is binnell who has to prove out that what he claimed means fraud against trump.   If he does not have the proof, than that makes him a wannabe but unsuccessful thief against honest americans. 
Cheers
gww
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: Acebird on December 31, 2020, 09:22:30 am
If he does not have the proof, than that makes him a wannabe but unsuccessful thief against honest americans. 

Kodos gww.  What an excellent choice of words.
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: cidersabuzzin on December 31, 2020, 03:20:11 pm
ben
I did not say what you wrote was a lie, I said your point that binnals statement meant what it is implying about the addresses is wrong if his meaning is that it means fraud unless he has the specifics that prove it.  You of course knew I meant that but your game is avoiding discussing the merit of what you say you want to discuss.  You either have a blind spot or like to just play games.  Lets take the one little thing on addresses.  If he looks up a few numbers on public records and says they are there, he is probably not lying.  If however, he says those numbers mean something but can not prove they mean that, than he can not be relied on as a excuse to say something is wrong.  I seem to have to be making the same point over and over to somebody who just can not get it.  You keep accusing me of lying about you but that is only cause you are being too dense to get the points I am making.  You instead, just ignore said mentioned points and go back to "Is binnall lying".

You are welcome to believe binnall on this and to discount the underlying reasons that the info may not mean what you are taking from it but it will not change the facts as the majority of the public and the courts look at it.

It does not help you going through life feeling like you got screwed when the facts indicate you did not but that is your burden and I believe a burden that a little time and distance from you feelings will allow you to come to the truth if that is what you are really looking for.
Cheers
gww

Ps some states allow the voter to cast a provisional ballot at the polling place not involving the post office at all.  Some want an eclectic bill or something.  Don't be so sure of you self on how things really work.


If a person lives in a particular state, and is registered to vote there, then moves to another state, files a LEGAL change of address in the new state with the postal service. He is no longer a legal resident of the old state but a legal resident of the new state. period.....  Even if he owns 10 homes in the same district of the old state. If he is sent a mail in ballot from the original state because his name is still on the voter registration books there, as example in the case the books there may have not been updated, yet votes in the original state from which by the ballot was sent, by mail, He has voted in a state which he has claimed to have left his primary residency per his Legal Change of Address. A state which he is no longer a legal resident. This is the last time I will try to explain it to you. Mr Binall uncovered this through the CHANGE of address data base. The mail in ballots should have never been mailed to folks in other states once they had filled an official Postal change of address in their new state. (Again, I am not talking a bout a forwarded address) This is the issue Mr Binall has and is valid unless the law has changed.  I can not put it any plainer or clearer. Even if a person my have 25 vacation houses in 25 states, does not allow him or her the right to vote 25 times.
" These voters were Identified by comparing the list of voters in the US Postal National Change of address data base among other sources." Jesse Binall.

>You keep accusing me of lying about you but that is only cause you are being too dense to get the points I am making.

I have not once said you were lying. I have however pointed out time and again the many times you were wrong when you misrepresented what you continue to  perceive as my thoughts and sometimes you misrepresent my words. In  such cases,  I have replied to you, wrong, or there you go again, or that is untrue. I have that right to correct your wrong interpretations as well as your wrong assumptions and accusations when directed at me. Which seems to be very regularly with you. (even now for example). I have been very careful throughout this entire debate of not calling you names or using insulting words which may be interpreted as or  degrading you and your person. I feel I have made valid points whether you can see them or not. 

> You of course knew I meant that but your game is avoiding discussing the merit of what you say you want to discuss. You either have a blind spot or like to just play games.

See there you go again. Another Pinocchio. lol

> You are welcome to believe binnall on this and to discount the underlying reasons that the info may not mean.

I believe every word of what Attorney Binall said in the statement of reply 27 and 35.

I have given you every opportunity through out this entire debate to show me where Mr Binalls report is untrue, false, or otherwise misleading. I have not found anything erroneous in his statement.
Being his report is the context of my reason for debating with you in the first place. Said report, in my opinion is important. We are talking about the possible fraud on an entire Nation, My Nation and yours. This is nothing to argue about or play games. We all need to know the truth regardless of where the chips may fall or what party we may belong to or support. I have graciously given you every opportunity to show me where his statement is flawed. You have failed to do so. A word of advise, you will not win someone over by calling he or she names, or by insulting, or using degrading remarks. Only by legitimately refuting any part of what Mr. Binall stated as a lie, could you have brought me over to you side and way of thinking of any part proven wrong. This whole debate was an honest attempt of asking you is to show me where Mr Binall is wrong or lying in his  report. You have failed. I have nothing further to say to you on this subject.
Aw don't give up Ben it's just getting to the meaty bit! just take a couple of pills and some salt :wink:
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: Milo on January 01, 2021, 05:43:37 am
As stated by legal council in opposition to Jesse Binnall

?... their zeal rather dramatically outstrips their evidence. And in a court of law, it?s evidence that counts, not Tweets or social media bluster, not hearsay or speculation. It?s evidence, and that?s what?s missing in the record before the court.?

https://www.rev.com/blog/transcripts/nevada-election-fraud-hearing-transcript-december-3

And in his ruling the Judge decided that the contestants did not meet the burden of proof.

The record does not support the finding that election officials counted ballots from voters who also voted in other states

contestants did not prove under any standard of proof that illegal votes by ineligible voters were cast and counted...

https://www.8newsnow.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/59/2020/12/Trump-Campaign-lawsuit-.pdf
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: Ben Framed on January 01, 2021, 12:05:20 pm
Quoting Milo
>And in his ruling the Judge decided that the contestants did not meet the burden of proof.


BECAUSE of stipulations of Deadline. Not one word of your posting that I can find, shows that Mr Binall has lied or mislead the court.

Quoting Mr Binnalll
Out determined team verified these irregularities without ANY of the tools of law enforcement, such as Grand juries, Subpoenas, or FBI Agents. instead we had less than a month to to use critical thinking and elbow grease to compile our evidence. We tried to obtain testimony or documents from Clark co officials but they obstructed and stonewalled. When we filed suit, state officials , even courts delayed proceedings for days then offered us merely hours to brief and argue our cases. In wrapping up Mr Chairman, these findings are disturbing, alarming, and unacceptable TO A FREE SOCIETY.

Judge Russell: (08:36)
By the order of the court, go ahead and strike the supplemental declaration of Jesse Kamzol, I believe, for the reasons I clearly indicated [inaudible 00:08:49] when we had a disclosure deadline November 25, 2020, which I might add none of the other experts by [inaudible 00:08:58] were even disclosed on that day. They were all disclosed later [inaudible 00:09:06] disclosure reports were not done until November 30th, I believe. Let's check that, but I?m going to allow all of that. I'm not striking anything other than this [inaudible 00:09:16] declaration for two reasons. One is under NRS 293.415. I declared to this court that I am basically limited the depositions and argument in respect to making a determination in this case.



Quote Mr Binall
Our evidences has never been refuted; only ignored

Edited:
Being you are Australian, whose business is not of Americas' election; But Australia. (unless you hold dual citizenship)
I will point out to you as Skaggley, one of your fellow Australians, who recently so politely stated to me; "Before being concerned about the deflective bs propaganda circulating about other country?s worry about your own backyard mate"

Adding not one of my Australian friends chimed in and welcomed my honest question to you of the subject of that day. Therefore I have every right to call you out being this is not you affair.
Again quoting shaggley, " "Before being concerned about the deflective bs propaganda circulating about other country?s worry about your own backyard mate" . Good day.

                                                                                                                                                                                .
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: gww on January 01, 2021, 01:33:32 pm
ben
Quote
I  add Mr Foreigner whose business is not of America But Australia. (unless you hold duel citizenship)
As Skaggley, one of your fellow countrymen so politely stated to me.  "Before being concerned about the deflective bs propaganda circulating about other country?s worry about your own backyard mate"

Nothing wrong with what milo posted as even a foreigner can give a legitimate fact that some cult following American might decide to discount just cause it was a foreigner was who pointed it out.  One thing about facts, they stay the same no matter who recognizes them. 
Trump is a loser by all measures under the constitution and by a vote of the people.  If people who are Americans know this but did not care and try to change it, those Americans would be traitors to America.   This would also be a fact that some foreigner might recognize whether their business or not.  Then if talk is required, talking fact might be looked upon with more respect than discounting fact by bait and switch.
Cheers
gww
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: Ben Framed on January 01, 2021, 01:37:47 pm
gww
I will refer you to reply 56, every line. Especially the last one.





                                                                                                                                                                                .
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: gww on January 01, 2021, 02:31:50 pm
ben
I did not ask you to respond, I just made a point to you.
Cheers
gww
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: Ben Framed on January 01, 2021, 02:53:47 pm
I have edited reply 61.  for the benefit of those who may not be able to see past the end of their own nose! lol
 :shocked:  :cheesy: :grin:
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: gww on January 01, 2021, 03:54:22 pm
ben
Wow!!!  What an edit, now you say the same thing twice.   Good practice on doubling down.  Just saying the same thing over and over does not really change a fact.  I still stick with the position that no matter who or where some one is from, if they are speaking fact, than it is still a fact and bait and switch does not deflect or change that fact.

Cheers
gww
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: Milo on January 01, 2021, 04:38:46 pm

Edited:
Being you are Australian, whose business is not of Americas' election; But Australia. (unless you hold dual citizenship)
I will point out to you as Skaggley, one of your fellow Australians, who recently so politely stated to me; "Before being concerned about the deflective bs propaganda circulating about other country?s worry about your own backyard mate"

Adding not one of my Australian friends chimed in and welcomed my honest question to you of the subject of that day. Therefore I have every right to call you out being this is not you affair.
Again quoting shaggley, " "Before being concerned about the deflective bs propaganda circulating about other country?s worry about your own backyard mate" .

Good day.                                                                                                                                                      

Ben
As the thread is in the coffee house and open to the world I shall continue to read and reply whilst consuming my coffee.

Your current favourite had his day in court and presented his evidence (bar one supplement disallowed). The court determined that the evidence did not meet any standard of proof.

He can appeal and probably has done so. And the Judge in rejecting every single piece of frivolous guff has done Jesse a favour because he did not take ages to assess it past key electoral vote points; certification, congressional count, inauguration and so Jesse can take it to the Supreme Court and, if they decide to hear it, argue his case for the addition of the evidence.

Jesse repeated his claims in the Senate. To say that all his evidence was thrown out and not considered by the court is simply false as it?s in the court order to dismiss (E, J and III 145 through 156 and more).

What is it to me? Simply pure interest from one of your closest allies. What I try to comment on is not how the Australian media may perceive it and it?s not foreign interference to have a read of the transcripts and comment (As opposed to media hyperbole, wherever it may occur).

Anyway back to my coffee

Kind regards  :happy:
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: Ben Framed on January 01, 2021, 07:00:50 pm
Milo I do not object to you posting here. I have stated that before. I simply used this opportunity to remind you. During that time of scolding of me, by your fellow countryman, When I took the liberty of the coffeehouse asking you about such that was reported here (by the leftist news by the way) of  pregnant woman, in Australia, arrested in her own home, in front of her children, as she was preparing to go and have a scheduled ultrasound done.. Even though I was scolded for such, and told to mind my own business. You spoke not one word in my defense even though I may be one of your strongest supporters for your country as well. If you had of spoken up, I would have said nothing of you posting of our business here. I took this opportunity to state; While here in the Coffeehouse in the future; I do not want to hear one word the next time I post of your business. I have seen PLENTY to post about there, while having my coffee here. This whole little off the trail, is something I took as a good time to remind you of such since you have given me the opportunity.. Thank You.  lol

 
Now that aside, to the subject at hand, I have not ask If any court has or has not heard  Mr Binalls' sworn statement under oath. I am not arguing or asking if any; court system has or has not thrown out Mr Binalls statement for whatever reason. Be it any stipulation, objection, or any other reason, short of Mr Binalls statement being a lie. I am not asking if any; or all stipulations, dates, timelines, etc have or have not been met. I have simply asked one of my fellow Americans; One American to another, Is Mr Binalls' statement a lie: If so which part . I do not know if Our Supreme Court will or will not hear Mr Binalls' sworn statement of evidence. I do not even know if it has been appealed to that Court. And if it has been appealed and does get heard, I will not speculate what their ruling may or may not be if they do hear his evidence shown Under Oath before the Senate Homeland Security hearing on election fraud... My question of concern is, and has been from the start. Which part of Mr Binalls' statement is simply not true? I have searched, studied, I can not disprove his statement or any part of it. He states UNDER OATH that at least 130,000 ballots in Arizona alone are invalid. The previous debater could not show where any of Mr Binalls' statement was a lie as I was asking him (one American to another), hoping if he knew otherwise he would show such. I will ask you as I ask the previous "debater" which of the following is not true? As I ask, One American who is a strong supporter of your country, to an Australian who is a strong supporter of my country; Which of the following is a lie? This is an important question, not only to me but many, many Americans. As far as I know it may all be a lie, I have not found such. Perhaps you have?



From Jesse Binnall UNDER OATH

The opening statement from President Trumps lawyer Jesse Binnall before the Senate Homeland Security hearing on election fraud.

Thank you Mr. Chairman
Ranking member Peters and Members of this committee. This year thousands upon thousands of Nevada voters had their voices canceled out by election fraud and invalid ballots. Heres how it happened. On August 3,2020 After a rushed special session  Nevada  legislators made DRASTIC changes to the States election law by adopting a bill known as AB4. The vulnerabilities of this statute are obvious, it provided for universal mail voting without sufficient safeguards to authenticate voters or insure fundamental requirements that only one ballot was sent to each qualified voter. This was aggravated by election officials failure to clean known deficiencies in their voter roles.  Because of AB4 the number of mail ballots rocketed from 70,000 in 2016 to over 690,000 in 2020. The election was inevitably riddled with FRAUD and our HOT LINE never stopped ringing. While the media and democrats accuse us of making it all up. Our team began CHASING DOWN EVERY LEAD. Our evidence team from data SCIENTIST and brave whistle blowers.

Here is what we found. Over 42,000: 42,000 PEOPLE voted more than once.  Our experts were able to make this determination by REVIEWING the list of actual voters in comparing it to others with the same Name, Address, and Date of Birth. This method was able to catch people using different variations of the first name such as William and Bill and individuals who both registered both under a married name and a maiden name. At least 1,500 dead people are recorded as voting as shown BY COMPARING the list of mail voters with the social security DEATH RECORDS.  More than 19.000 people voted even though they did not live in Nevada. This DOES NOT include military voters or students.  These voters were Identified by comparing the list of voters in the US Postal National Change of address data base among other sources. About 8,000 people voted from non-existent address.  Here we cross reference voters with the coding accuracy support system. Which allowed out experts to identify UNDELIVERABLE ADDRESSES. Over 15,000 voters were cast from commercial or VACANT address. Our experts found these voters by analyzing  OFFICIAL US postal records that FLAG non residential address in addresses vacant more than 90 days.  INCREDIBLY almost 4,000 non-citizens also voted. As determined by comparing official DMV records of NON-CITIZENS from the list of ACTUAL voters.  The list goes on and on. All in all, our experts identify 130,000 UNIQUE instances of  voter fraud In Nevada but the actual number is almost certainly higher. Our data scientist made these calculations NOT BY ESTIMATIONS OR STATISTICAL STAND POINTS but by analyzing the list of ACTUAL voters with other list which are PUBLICLY available.  To put it simply, they explain there methods so others COULD CHECK THEIR WORK.
(Our evidences has never been refuted only ignored) Two Clark County technical employees came forward completely independent of each other and explained that they discovered the number of votes reported by voting machines and stored on USB drives would change between the time the polls were closed; at night and when they were reopened the next morning. In other words, votes were literally appearing and disappearing in the dead of night. When we ATTEMPTED to verify the integrity of the machines, we allowed only a useless visual inspection of the OUTSIDE of USB drive. We were denied a  forensic examination.
Finally our investigation also uncovered a campaigns to illegally insensitive votes form marginally populations by requiring people to prove they voted to receive raffle tickets for gift cards, televisions and more. Out determined team verified these irregularities without ANY of the tools of law enforcement, such as Grand juries, Subpoenas, or FBI Agents.  instead we  had less than a month to to use critical thinking and elbow grease to compile our evidence. We tried to obtain testimony  or documents from Clark co officials but they obstructed and stonewalled. When we filed suit, state officials , even courts delayed proceedings for days then offered us merely hours to brief and argue our cases. In wrapping up Mr Chairman,  these findings are disturbing, alarming, and unacceptable TO A FREE SOCITY.  Our free and fair election tradition  is a precious treasure that we are in charge with protecting.  Governments by the consent of govern is hard to win and EASY TO LOSE.  Every time a fraudulent or illegal is cast the vote of an honest citizen is cancelled out. Thank you.
 
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: gww on January 01, 2021, 10:47:11 pm
Ben
You can post binnall's statement every other post and it would not change that he had is day in court and the evidence did not measure up and that means that biden is supposed to be president and he is going to be.

Millions of voters voted.  binnall statement has been discredited including in some of the post in this tread and you give not even a bit of credence  to those points. Instead you go out of you way to type bunches of "lol" to basically show how smart you are with the how dumb the other guy is being the only possible take.  You don't do it in a way that means you are laughing with people.  Then you take offence and claim how nice you have been.  Binnall never said who got all those supposed votes.  Your position that he is telling it strait might actually mean that biden won by 130,000 more than the votes show.  I am not claiming that though.  I am claiming that binnall statement was just a collection of records that he could not find evidence to give meaning to.
To what you typed to milo.
I find it funny that your defense for your bait and switch tactic is being justified cause he didn't jump some time before and help you like it would be his responsibility to do that?  I thought on the quarter billion dollar fund that I mentioned your defense was you don't have to remember things from other threads and that it was only things in this thread that mattered to be discussed.  I guess you are a little inconstant on what you feel is important based on what you are wanting to accomplish at the time.  I have seen that a bit in other areas of this thread also. 

So, I go back to the statement I made after milo posted which was.
Quote
Then if talk is required, talking fact might be looked upon with more respect than discounting fact by bait and switch.

Cheers
gww

Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: Michael Bush on January 01, 2021, 10:54:21 pm
How many of you have listened to the eyewitness testimony?  There are probably a hundred hours of it available to listen to.  Several hearings in each of the state legislatures.  One hearing in the US Senate which had very little but some of it.  Arizona citizens are going door to door to validate voters and they are finding as high as 30% are not real people or not legal voters.  Often they are empty lots.  Some were actually the address of some public county buildings.  Often it is a legitimate address but that person had not lived there for at least a decade.  So far I haven't seen any court even look at the evidence.  They just pass the buck, turn it down on standing or some other technicality.  Yet the evidence keeps accumulating.  Also, now all the whistle blowers are getting harassed by the FBI or fired by the post office or by the counties involved.  Again, I have listened to the people who are experiencing this.  That's not hearsay if you hear it from the person who has put it in a sworn statement and is stating it now.  You guys really should look around and see what is happening.
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: gww on January 01, 2021, 11:55:29 pm
Micheal
I have caught bits and pieces of the testimonies including some of the state ones.  I believe the election was fair but big and there are always things that can be looked into harder.  I believe that over time this election will be looked at but that over all it is proving out that biden won.  I do say some should be fired or harassed if it can be proved they made untrue statements.  Like the police captain that rammed his suv into a truck full of air conditioning parts should, as he was be arrested. 

Emotions are high enough for people to do weird things which is why we have to address some of this through the courts and no matter what anyone thinks, all the courts are not crooked if they are presented with evidence that is big enough to make a difference.  There is not question that when you have thousands of poll workers and millions of voters that people can make legitimate testimony of wrong things that happened to them.  Such is the nature of people dealing with each other.  However conspiracy big enough to change the election for one side or the other.  No where near has that been proven or even that believable with what is known now.  If they find out more with good evidence, perhaps but I have my doubts. 

There is zero reason with the time lines under the constitution for biden to not be in office come jan 20 and you can bet he will be.  Also, binnall saying they only had a month or so to find stuff does not ring true when they were looking long before and as the election happened with tons of volunteers and hundreds of lawyers from both sides as the election happened.  This was probably the closest watched election ever due to the president telling people to try and vote twice before the voting was even going on.

There is a incentive for people to make stuff up and that is why we have courts that are not part of the executive branch or legislative branch of government.
Cheers
gww
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: Michael Bush on January 02, 2021, 12:47:59 am
The numbers involved are not trivial.  Not even close to trivial.  No one has actually refuted any of it.  The courts refuse to hear it.  The media refuses to report it.  There was and is NO transparency.  The Republican watchers were kicked out and the windows were even covered.  Any that weren't kicked out were not allowed to stand close enough to see what was happening.  On occasion when they could see and they objected then they were thrown out as well.  This is not on a small scale.  This was done in several states and hundreds of them were thrown out or not allowed to watch by whatever rules they could come up with.  I have not listened to bits and pieces.  I listened to every hearing at every legislature.  It is quite clear that in the states in question the law in those states was not followed.  Not just on one or two points but on virtually every point that is essential for a fair election.  Chain of custody was not kept.  Ballot counts from polls didn't match.  Ballot boxes were unattended.  Signatures were not matched.  Thousands of voters were registered on Nov 4.  Thousands of ballots were still coming in to get counted days after the election.  Ballots being shredded in Georgia though Federal law says all records of an Federal election must be kept for 22 months.  All of these things are against the laws of those states as they are in all the states.  At this point there are thousands of sworn affidavits and none have actually been looked at by a judge or by the mainstream media.  And of course no one will let anyone inspect any of the evidence and no judge wants to hear the cases.  No one is making this up.  In every case multiple witnesses saw similar things.  If you want people to trust an election you have to be transparent.  You have to follow the rules.  You have to admit when they were broken and fix it.  You don't keep saying "nothing to see here", you show them there is nothing to see here by letting them examine the evidence.  You don't defy subpoenas.  You don't fire the witnesses.  None of these actions will restore faith in the election.
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: gww on January 02, 2021, 02:05:37 am
michael

https://www.courthousenews.com/pennsylvania-high-court-rules-against-trump-in-poll-watchers-case/

It is a republican ran state and all party watchers were treated the same and it was live streamed.  One poll location had more watchers than was allowed by law of 130 or so and all ready had 200 inside when they refused to allow more.  The lawyer in the case during court said when questioned by the judge that there was a non-zero amount of watchers in the center.

The lawyers for trump in court when pressed by the judge said they were not claiming fraud or claiming any individual of fraud.

Several of the witnesses were heard in court and their testimony was deemed second hand of second hand info and there for considered hearsay evidence by the court.

Most of the affidavits were collected though a open plea on an internet site and the court found it to not be credible though the lawyers for trump claimed they had weeded through and vetted the ones they received.

I don't know about the ballot shredding but if it was against the law they should not have did it.  I will have to try and see what is out there. The only thing I can find is that it was a fake vidio put out by len woods showing clean up and that was the waste generated, some with voters addresses but not the type of thing used in an audit. No ballots were destroyed.

Trumps team could let every one in the world examine the evidence and supporting documentation but instead seem to just be collecting a lot of money from donors and then going into court and singing a different tune when put on the spot by judges with specific questions.  Nothing binnall says shows a fraudulent action by anyone.  It shows a bunch of pubic record numbers that have not been broken down to somebody being guilty and who that somebody voted for.
Cheers
gww

This is what one of trumps most supportive tabloid news sources is saying.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/28/business/media/new-york-post-trump-editorial.html
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: Acebird on January 02, 2021, 08:39:39 am
You don't defy subpoenas.  You don't fire the witnesses.
Seriously?  Exactly who do you support?
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: Ben Framed on January 02, 2021, 11:40:44 am
You don't defy subpoenas.  You don't fire the witnesses.
Seriously?  Exactly who do you support?

It is obvious who you support, the party of the yoke and harness, of freedom lost, the party of slavery which goes right along your parties proud mascot, the party of the mule. The symbol of the yoke and harness.   :tongue: 
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: gww on January 02, 2021, 11:59:54 am
ben
Here you are again with your supposed open mind which I also saw on the Christmas redacted thread.  I find it very funny how you express your supposed open mind and a "I don't know I just want the truth".  You know, the open mind you fell back on though out this whole thread every time you were pressed on a subject.  I mean by calling out that the other side is cheaters in such a strait fashion, I wonder when somebody should believe you and when they should not?
Oh well.   I guess the fact that the whole world can read this should also give opportunity for judgement of all of us.  Lets see, how does that go again?  Oh, right.  LOL!   :wink:
Cheers
gww
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: Ben Framed on January 02, 2021, 12:09:32 pm
ben
Here you are again with your supposed open mind which I also saw on the Christmas redacted thread.  I find it very funny how you express your supposed open mind and a "I don't know I just want the truth".  You know, the open mind you fell back on though out this whole thread every time you were pressed on a subject.  I mean by calling out that the other side is cheaters in such a strait fashion, I wonder when somebody should believe you and when they should not?
Oh well.   I guess the fact that the whole world can read this should also give opportunity for judgement of all of us.  Lets see, how does that go again?  Oh, right.  LOL!   :wink:
Cheers
gww

I had resolved to not speaking to you of our little debate any further because of you continuous misrepresentation of my words, words that I spoke clearly. The whole theme of our debate, from my point of view, stemming from my question, Is Jesse Binall telling truth?
Anyone who may be interested enough can go back and read and see for themselves as you say. Reply 27 would be a good place to start.  I have not wavered or faltered, as I have put up with your continuous personal attacks and unfounded insults. You can go pound sand   :tongue: lol......  :cheesy:
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: gww on January 02, 2021, 01:06:51 pm
ben
Just because you make an allegation that some body is twisting your word after making big strong statements and then tacking on, "I don't know" does not make somebody who read those strong statements not able come to the conclusion through out of what you are meaning.  You have did this through out the thread and than when called on the points jump to you little disclaimers of "I don't know or that is why I put the commas in",  those disclaimers when used as an excuse to be able to call the other person a fraud is disingenuous.  I for one can read your intent as we go along and I am sure most can.    Bait and switch.
Cheers
gww
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: Ben Framed on January 02, 2021, 01:25:26 pm
So you say.
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: Michael Bush on January 02, 2021, 02:05:55 pm
>I don't know about the ballot shredding but if it was against the law they should not have did it. 

Not only did a witness video them while they were shredding ballots, she recorded the 911 call she made demanding that someone make them stop and was there several hours before the truck left and never did any law enforcement show up.  This is only one of the MANY violations of the law.  Many of the witnesses said they called the FBI or they called the Justice department in their state.  None got any response other than the FBI showing up and grilling them on who paid them off.  No wonder people don't speak up.  That's not counting the death threats and the doxing.  Maybe you want your elections run this way.  I do not.  Although I'm sure some dead people voted here in Nebraska, I know we keep chain of custody, and audit all the ballots.  The counts at the polls have to match.  The ballots have to have poll worker signatures on them.  You have to REQUEST a mail in ballot and the signatures have to match.  In all of the states in question none of these things happened.
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: gww on January 02, 2021, 03:26:21 pm
michael
The doxing was done on both sides and I doubt more was done from the lefts side than was done from the right.

How I don't want elections run by cutting down polling places so that it takes eight hours to vote.  I can not answer for the FBI but also know that there are suits in court all the time against law enforcement if there is enough evidence.  I could not tell if the people had ulterior motives and it was being investigated.  I do know that something as big as a national election is always going to have something that needs improvement and problems that need investigating. 

We may or may not agree on how elections are run and what rules should be around them.  I pretty much think everybody should have one vote and only one and that making it as easy for them to cast that one vote is very important.  I do understand also of having to have a mechanism to catch cheaters and also no rules to disenfranchise legitimate voters.

As far as matching signatures go, since it is a subjective thing, there should be the balance of follow up with the signature to see if they get it right.  We can all have ideals of how we could make it better and that is why we have courts, cause there is not perfect agreement and competing problems with running an election.

I do not buy that four states (three run by republicans) all got together and decided to steal and election which is what your post is insinuating.  They all did it and nobody breaks and gives enough evidence of them doing it?

If there was one state that actually had enough wrong proved out, it would not be enough to change the outcome.  By saying that, I do not mean that if something was found that some one would not need to be punished.  I want my elections run where every body's one vote counts.

If any fraud is found, I want it punished in a fashion that strengthens everyone's vote and does not disenfranchise.  You say in the states in question, none of these things happened but we do not have national run elections, we have state run elections and  no body is looking for wrong in all the states that don't matter cause they would probably find similar stuff.  Just cause one does it different does not make it worse.  It might actually be better if compared side by side.  However, since I can not control and do all of the work to run it myself, we have to rely some on our system of checks and balance to address the things that do come up.

I live in a republican state and know I am going to lose when I go cast my vote (most times, cause I have broke with party here and there) and I still want my one vote recorded properly.  I have never spent more than ten minutes in a polling place while at the same time I can look at enormous lines in the city voting. 

Lastly, some things do not have an answer.

I have no issue with peoples motive being vetted when they report anything, cause only through investigation and litigation do we have a way to correct disagreements in some kind of orderly fashion where it is not just the strong win because they are strong.  That is how most country's with weak governments are run.  A bunch of little crime lords.  So we have to use the mechanisms of our government while trying to elect people who will make changes in that mechanisms on the things that need improvement.

Lastly, I am sure the FBI that you mentioned will also be investigated as we seem to be in a big circle that works that way.  As it should cause too much power for anyone can be corrupting.

I would not say don't investigate or try and improve but will say that the evidence is clear that there is nothing there that should make us break the time lines and process under the constitution and that joe biden is our president.   This should not be stopped on the "hope" of someday finding real proof that can actually show a fraud against just one candidate.
Cheers
gww

Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: Michael Bush on January 03, 2021, 04:31:10 pm
I'll be at the Capitol on Jan 6 to protest the fraud.  I would like to have seen the justice system do what it was designed to do, but that does not seem likely at this point.  No one in authority is looking at the evidence at all nor are they allowing anyone else to look at the evidence.  It is unacceptable.  Of course our U. S. Constitution does allow protests by senators and congressmen on the votes.  So we will see how that goes, but I'm not optimistic.  The actual election for President occurs on the 6th, just in case any of you bought into the left's portrayal that it occurred on Nov 3rd.  After the 6th someone will probably, actually be the President Elect.  Unless neither get's enough Electoral votes in which case Congress will have to settle it.  If they do, it won't be the first time...

>..and that joe biden is our president

That is certainly and definitely not true in any way shape or form.  One thing is certain.  At the present time Donald Trump is the President of the United States and will be until at least January 20th.  After that we will see.  There are still constitutional processes that have to happen.
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: Milo on January 03, 2021, 04:38:00 pm
Milo I do not object to you posting here. I have stated that before. I simply used this opportunity to remind you. During that time of scolding of me, by your fellow countryman, When I took the liberty of the coffeehouse asking you about such that was reported here (by the leftist news by the way) of  pregnant woman, in Australia, arrested in her own home, in front of her children, as she was preparing to go and have a scheduled ultrasound done.. Even though I was scolded for such, and told to mind my own business. You spoke not one word in my defense even though I may be one of your strongest supporters for your country as well. If you had of spoken up, I would have said nothing of you posting of our business here.

Thanks Milo for taking the time to explain. Inciting is illegal here also. It would have been good if our authorities in some of the Cities here in America were as though as you at enforcing that law.

And if you took time to review our discourse at the time you will see I never objected to your raising the issue. I did however correct the record from the overblown hyperbole.

Yelling into the interwebs repeatedly that people have SWORN UNDER OATH does not mean it is credible, or of any standing in a court of law. Swearing under oath that they believed they witnessed something occur doesn?t mean it is factual, it is simply an observation. The courts decide if it has any bearing on a case and they have and found it wanting.

The numbers involved are not trivial.  Not even close to trivial.  No one has actually refuted any of it.  The courts refuse to hear it.

Stating that the courts simply refuse to hear it is false. It has certainly been heard in court, irrefutable proof is in the court proceedings from Nevada.
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: gww on January 03, 2021, 05:01:58 pm
Michael
The senators and congress that protest by contesting the electorates that the states sent are protesting democracy.  The ones about to be seated will take an oath to defend the constitution and than the next day protest democracy.  Protesting the very thing that gave them the seat that they accept. 

You should not be optimistic if you are thinking that biden will not be president. 

Your statement that you would like to see the system do what it is designed to do is exactly what has been happening.  Sour grapes for not being able to put together a case good enough to win 60 times does not mean the whole system is in on the fraud.   If that is the case you are making, It is not a believable case.

Cheers
gww
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: iddee on January 03, 2021, 05:12:15 pm
gww, check your spelling.It is spelled "protecting" not "protesting".   Use spell check or ask your neighbor next time.  :tongue: :cheesy:

Milo, thanks for explaining that.Now explain this........

https://100percentfedup.com/30000-trump-votes-removed-12173-switched-to-biden-150-precincts-have-90-biden-votes/
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: gww on January 03, 2021, 05:51:10 pm
Iddee
Some elected officials could be "protecting" them selves right out of their seats. :shocked:
Cheers
gww
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: iddee on January 03, 2021, 06:48:25 pm
If that's what it takes for the law to be followed, then goodbye. Truth and honesty should come before reelection, but with most pols, that's the laugh of the year.
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: gww on January 03, 2021, 07:03:37 pm
Iddee
I 100 percent agree with your last post on all fronts.
Cheers
gww
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: Milo on January 04, 2021, 12:16:06 am
Milo, thanks for explaining that.Now explain this........

I?ve had a pretty good look and I haven?t been able to dig any deeper than that

In contrast, all data, analyses, and programs used in these Georgia voter fraud analyses have been made public by the self-described independent agency involved in doing the analysis.

I can?t find anything supporting this statement they made, I cannot find specific court documents or anything at all to back it up.

There maybe reference to something similar in the Texas motion to the Supreme Court, but I couldn?t find an exact match

I?ll have a better look later concentrating on a specific search around the words ? In 94 precincts in Dekalb county,? Biden received 90% or greater voting percentages?

But at the moment it looks to not have been submitted to a court and apart from news rooms fact checks saying it?s junk I can?t help you.

Sorry my google-foo has let me down.

Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: Michael Bush on January 04, 2021, 12:24:21 am
>The senators and congress that protest by contesting the electorates that the states sent are protesting democracy.

No, they will be protesting the fraud.  They will be protesting that the states did not follow their own laws in the election.  They will be exercising their powers as defined in the U.S. Constitution.  I don't expect them to succeed but I do expect to be counted as one of the people who is not willing to accept the violation of the law without protesting.  I think those Senators and Congressmen are doing the same.  To be counted as not willing to just lie down and pretend it never happened.

If you hope to find anything about the election you need to use DuckDuckGo rather than Google.  Google and Youtube are censoring it.  Not only are the censoring it, they have announced they are censoring it...
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: gww on January 04, 2021, 12:35:37 am
Michael
Quote
They will be protesting that the states did not follow their own laws in the election.
Which was the case that the united states supreme court denied.

Cheers
gww
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: Ben Framed on January 04, 2021, 02:31:10 am
> Yelling into the interwebs repeatedly that people have SWORN UNDER OATH does not mean it is credible, or of any standing in a court of law. Swearing under oath that they believed they witnessed something occur doesn?t mean it is factual, it is simply an observation. The courts decide if it has any bearing on a case and they have and found it wanting.


Milo,
First of all I am not yelling into the interweb, I have however been steadfast, standing on one question since post 27, that no one of opposition here seems to have either the ability or the courage to answer, maybe both. A simple yes or no will be a good start. If you do not know say you do not know. There is no disgrace there.  I am asking you as the man in the following video suggested in his statement.  "Don't look at the mechanics look at the ballots." 

Quoting Myself
Quote
I am not arguing or asking if any; court system has or has not thrown out Mr Binalls statement for whatever reason. Be it any stipulation, objection, or any other reason, short of Mr Binalls statement being a lie. I am not asking if any; or all stipulations, dates, timelines, etc have or have not been met. I have simply asked one of my fellow Americans; One American to another, Is Mr Binalls' statement a lie: If so which part . I do not know if Our Supreme Court will or will not hear Mr Binalls' sworn statement of evidence. I do not even know if it has been appealed to that Court. And if it has been appealed and does get heard, I will not speculate what their ruling may or may not be if they do hear his evidence shown Under Oath before the Senate Homeland Security hearing on election fraud... My question of concern is, and has been from the start. Which part of Mr Binalls' statement is simply not true? I have searched, studied, I can not disprove his statement or any part of it. He states UNDER OATH that at least 130,000 ballots in Arizona alone are invalid. The previous debater could not show where any of Mr Binalls' statement was a lie as I was asking him (one American to another), hoping if he knew otherwise he would show such. I will ask you as I ask the previous "debater" which of the following is not true? As I ask, One American who is a strong supporter of your country, to an Australian who is a strong supporter of my country; This is an important question, not only to me but many, many Americans. As far as I know it may all be a lie, I have not found such. Perhaps you have?

Now to add even more to the question of Fraud or no Fraud is the video that I am posting below. Perhaps you, being one of our strongest allies, would like to take a look at the video below and comment? This is only one of many experts in many capacities which have testified in their field of expertise, only to have their testimony ignored, as Mr Binalls testimony, Ignored. Is this man lying? Reminding you that Jesse Binall claims his statement has not be refuted, only ignored. Hopefully this man will not receive the same treatment by officials, or by my fellow Americans as Mr Binall; "Ignored".

Expert: Tech can detect counterfeit ballots in hours, calls to examine all Georgia absentee ballots
91,180 views?Jan 3, 2021
Digital ID systems inventor Jovan Pulitzer testified at a Georgia State Senate subcommittee hearing on Dec. 30, 2020.

https://youtu.be/sHu1gBF0gmI
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: Acebird on January 05, 2021, 08:45:34 am
Phil this man is just blabbing about his resume looking for his next job in the next administration.  I didn't watch the whole thing.  I am not interested in an "inventor" coming up with scenarios that might of happened no matter how good an "expert" he thinks he is.  We have a democracy that is over 200 years old.  There have been issues in every election.  For the most part lessons are leaned in each election.  Certainly the difference between 2016 and 2020 is a prime example.  Trump should have never been elected.  It was a failure of the American people when they become complacent and did not vote.  Just by shear numbers the more people that vote the more the election is representative of the American people.  You should be happy and stop drinking the cool aid.  I feel sorry for true republicans who love this country and hold dear their beliefs even if it may conflict with my views.  I have no respect for those that hitched their wagon to the Trump train wreck especially when the resent behavior is damning our democracy and will net no positive gains.
The answer is NO this man has no proof what so ever.  He just has a theory.  Might be good for writing a book.
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: Ben Framed on January 05, 2021, 09:33:06 am
> This man is just blabbing about his resume looking for his next job in the next administration.
I didn't watch the whole thing.

You certainly are entertaining Bryan. By reading your opening sentences above and your closing sentence below, it is obvious you didn?t watch the whole thing. If you had you would see the ignorance of all your babbling in between.
 :cheesy:

> The answer is NO this man has no proof what so ever.  He just has a theory.  Might be good for writing a book.
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: gww on January 05, 2021, 10:44:48 am
ben
Your problem is that you are searching the internet looking for one person to hang the whole election on.  You go from one conspiracy hero to the next hoping the whole ball game can rely on just just one person who tells the best fib.  You can not see the forest for the trees.  Back in the 70's, parents used to hire people to kidnap their kids from cults and have them deprogramed cause they loved their kids.  We have a system of voting and a constitution and biden will be president in a couple of weeks and then you will be just barking at the moon every time you post one of your conspiracy hero's just as you are now.  If it makes you feel good to feel bad, Go for it but quit thinking every one else has to disprove your stuff.  The nation is going to move on with out the responsibility to disprove conspiracy claims.  The burden of proof to prove is on the ones contesting.  You have shown nothing that proves any thing and that is why the 80 judges that have heard part of it have all sided against your stuff so consistently.   The American people will not be too dumb to come out of the rain.
Cheers
gww
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: Ben Framed on January 05, 2021, 12:58:23 pm
ben
Your problem is that you are searching the internet looking for one person to hang the whole election on.  You go from one conspiracy hero to the next hoping the whole ball game can rely on just just one person who tells the best fib.  You can not see the forest for the trees.  Back in the 70's, parents used to hire people to kidnap their kids from cults and have them deprogramed cause they loved their kids.  We have a system of voting and a constitution and biden will be president in a couple of weeks and then you will be just barking at the moon every time you post one of your conspiracy hero's just as you are now.  If it makes you feel good to feel bad, Go for it but quit thinking every one else has to disprove your stuff.  The nation is going to move on with out the responsibility to disprove conspiracy claims.  The burden of proof to prove is on the ones contesting.  You have shown nothing that proves any thing and that is why the 80 judges that have heard part of it have all sided against your stuff so consistently.   The American people will not be too dumb to come out of the rain.
Cheers
gww



>The burden of proof to prove is on the ones contesting.


Exactly, And the burden is really a burden when officials ignore. In the two situations that I have posted, proof has been ignored. I have only posted of two examples lately this and Mr Binalls statement. This man claims he can prove fraudulent ballots (under oath) in the state of Georgia. Claiming to be able to do so in only hours. Not with words but with action. Mr Pulitzer is no Johnny come lately. And claims to be the very man which can reveal the the extent of voter fraud to the last ballot. You are not disputing me but one of the granddaddies' of the barcode and the entire barcode system. If not the grandaddy. You are disputing and ignoring the foremost expert in the world.  "You can not see the forest for the trees. Back in the 70's, parents used to hire people to kidnap their kids from cults and have them deprogrammed cause they loved their kids.  We have a system of voting and a constitution" which gives us a basic right to a free and fair election. There are far to many eyewitness being ignored along with this example of this Expert in barcoding, which affects everything you touch in your day to day life including you bank card, your groceries, all mobile machinery which can talk to the internet by code is "my technology" he stated. His patents are so prolific that every manufacturer in the world uses HIS licenses for any mobile device except Huawe out of China, they just use it. Yet you want to drown out even his voice and every other voice of reason. Ignoring the obvious science of his method which he claims he can prove 100 percent the extent of fraud. Don't tell me you listened to every word he said and yet still posted such a ridiculous post as above? How ridiculous! Just because you can not see the forest for the trees, or the Pacific Ocean for all the water does not mean " The American people will not be too dumb to come out of the rain." I still have faith in the American People and I still have faith in our Constitution. Regardless of those who wish to ignore both.
Cheers
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: gww on January 05, 2021, 01:11:40 pm
ben
Who cares about bar codes.  They have the actual paper ballots and did a hand recount.  Again, you can not see the forest for the trees.  Let them file a case and see how it goes.  That is how things are done.
Cheers
gww
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: Ben Framed on January 05, 2021, 01:17:10 pm
ben
Who cares about bar codes.  They have the actual paper ballots and did a hand recount.  Again, you can not see the forest for the trees.  Let them file a case and see how it goes.  That is how things are done.
Cheers
gww

I for one care. I would hope every American Citizen would care. Legitimate ballots are identified and detected by their specific barcodes and by the paper texture including where they were made. Which the above expert explained and explained well. By the same standard illegitimate ballots are identified and detected. Just as counterfeit money is detected.  If you chose to stick your head in the sand, feel free.  :cheesy:   
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: Milo on January 06, 2021, 01:35:48 am
A simple yes or no will be a good start. If you do not know say you do not know. There is no disgrace there.  I am asking you as the man in the following video suggested in his statement.  "Don't look at the mechanics look at the ballots." 

Ok if we go back to response #27 and your post of the statement from Jesse Binnall ? Our evidence has never been refuted; only Ignored.?

If we look at this and review the court proceedings from Nevada and consider that the Nevada case occurred before the Senate hearing then yes I can say I know the answer as legal council refuted Binnalls evidence and so therefore Binnalls statement to the Senate is in point of fact, a lie.
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: Ben Framed on January 06, 2021, 01:39:40 am
A simple yes or no will be a good start. If you do not know say you do not know. There is no disgrace there.  I am asking you as the man in the following video suggested in his statement.  "Don't look at the mechanics look at the ballots." 

Ok if we go back to response #27 and your post of the statement from Jesse Binnall ? Our evidence has never been refuted; only Ignored.?

If we look at this and review the court proceedings from Nevada and consider that the Nevada case occurred before the Senate hearing then yes I can say I know the answer as legal council refuted Binnalls evidence and so therefore Binnalls statement to the Senate is in point of fact, a lie.

Which part is a lie?
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: gww on January 06, 2021, 03:13:47 am
ben   
Are you excited also about the senate races in Georgia?   What you like or what your expert likes or what I like was though legislation, judication and implementation.   It was done though court cases even before the election and than again after the election.  Your only opportunity to change this is through elections and getting enough votes for enough legislators to make the necessary changes.  It is too late for trump cause when he was in power and the machines were in court and he could have addressed though legislation, he did not find enough support or make effort enough to change it and so this is what he ran under, the same as every one else.  The vote has been certified by the state and even if he got it changed wrongly, it would not give enough for him to win.  It is a bit of a mute point except for something maybe to keep working on.  Under the constitution, biden will be president.
Cheers
gww
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: Acebird on January 06, 2021, 08:45:33 am
Under the constitution, biden will be president.

The radical conservatives are only interested in the second amendment.  The rest of it they want to make up as we go along.
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: iddee on January 06, 2021, 09:09:30 am
No, they also want to kill serial killers and save the unborn, rather than killing the unborn and saving the serial killers, as the liberals want. And you can actually condone that?? What kind of person are you?
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: Ben Framed on January 06, 2021, 10:34:50 am
No gww, I am not excited about the Georgia Senate race as I pretty much know how that will turn out. The same machines are being used. The same machines that insured Hugo Chavez would never lose another election. As you know the American people have been screaming to the top of their voices about the use of such machines, yet it has continued to fall on deaf ears, does not matter to the left the courts or the media. The only thing that matters to the left is winning. With those machines you can not lose.  Fraud Exposed by Mr Pulitzer. (yet ignored) Welcome to the banana republic. The only hope left for America beside the intervention of God himself, is the hope congress uses the powers of the constitution as we are discussing in our conversation in the Constitution heading: Topic;  Mr Levin discusses The Constitution and its protection for times as these. I will confess, I put about as much hope in our politicians as I would a screen door on a submarine. Again welcome to the banana republic.


ben
Who cares about bar codes.  They have the actual paper ballots and did a hand recount.  Again, you can not see the forest for the trees.  Let them file a case and see how it goes.  That is how things are done.
Cheers
gww

I for one care. I would hope every American Citizen would care. Legitimate ballots are identified and detected by their specific barcodes and by the paper texture including where they were made. Which the above expert explained and explained well. By the same standard illegitimate ballots are identified and detected. Just as counterfeit money is detected.  If you chose to stick your head in the sand, feel free.     

Adding. Quoting Ronald Reagan.
"Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it on to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same, or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children and our children's children what it was once like in the United States where men were free."

We have fought a good fight. We exposed the truth to have it fall of deaf ears, blinded eyes and hardened hearts. We Americans did our best as individual citizens to educate and show our fellow Americans and our fellow man of the fraud which has been orcharstralited here on America and the way in which it was done. The corruption was to deep and widespread. To many ignoring the truth. Sad   




                                                                                                                                                                                .
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: gww on January 06, 2021, 01:01:12 pm
Ben
Quote
We have fought a good fight. We exposed the truth to have it fall of deaf ears, blinded eyes and hardened hearts. We Americans did our best as individual citizens to educate and show our fellow Americans and our fellow man of the fraud which has been orcharstralited here on America and the way in which it was done. The corruption was to deep and widespread. To many ignoring the truth. Sad   
From my point of view on fighting the good fight is the fight against those who would really cheat and spread lies to thwart the will of the people and violate the constitution they say they believe in.  The ones that are not duped into this should end up in hell and the ones who are duped should also be guarded against as the outcome is the same.  The duped may believe they are correct in their hearts but as the old saying says, "The road to hell can be paved with good intentions".

Even with problems we have (many of which are caused by solving other problems), there is a correct way and then the way that uses lies, fraud and bad intent.  There will always be problems to solve but we have a guiding frame work in the constitution and those who would throw that away are traitors.
Cheers
gww
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: Ben Framed on January 06, 2021, 01:42:21 pm
> From my point of view on fighting the good fight is the fight against those who would really cheat and spread lies to thwart the will of the people and violate the constitution they say they believe in.  The ones that are not duped into this should end up in hell and the ones who are duped should also be guarded against as the outcome is the same.  The duped may believe they are correct in their hearts but as the old saying says, "The road to hell can be paved with good intentions".
>Even with problems we have (many of which are caused by solving other problems), there is a correct way and then the way that uses lies, fraud and bad intent.  There will always be problems to solve but we have a guiding frame work in the constitution and those who would throw that away are traitors.

Exactly, we agree. Your words not mine.
Except I do not wish anyone of the obvious cheaters or truth oppressors, be it News, Courts, or anyone else who has suppressed truth ending up in hell. That is for God to decide. Not you or me. For there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; neither hid, that shall not be known.
Be it now or later.
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: iddee on January 06, 2021, 03:10:53 pm
Repeating the same steps and expecting different outcome. Sure sign of a fool. Same machines, same people operating them, same lost rep. ballots, same manufactured dem. ballots. No person in his or her right mind could possibly believe a race between a white man and a white man, and a race between a black man and a white woman could come out that close favoring the same party.  It's a mockery of human intelligence to put such a sham out as the truth.
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: gww on January 06, 2021, 03:33:40 pm
The real truth of intent is very easy to see.  The very same republicans elected by the very machines took their seats and are not contesting their election but are only willing to contest trumps election.  This is the height of hypocrisy and being willing to use miss aligned  facts to try and do this is crooked.  The election in Georgia happened  as a revulsion to the republicans hypocrisy in their trying to disenfranchise American voters who followed the rules of the government at the time and cast their votes.  They can say that the states did not follow their own rules but the people know they voted under the rules that they had no control of and know how that vote came out.  Nobody was disenfranchised and all voted and biden got the most votes.  To bring up bull crap at this late date of things that have been already addressed though the courts and shot down means that those protesting have decided that they know more (and don't care about) the peoples will and the judicial process.  That makes all those protesters that are in power a king.   There is no place for a king in america.  That is not our system of government nor one we want.

Cheers
gww
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: iddee on January 06, 2021, 04:52:06 pm
And I have a very nice bridge to sell you or anyone else that believes that crap.
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: Michael Bush on January 07, 2021, 09:10:29 am
> Which was the case that the united states supreme court denied.

Yes.  They refused to hear it.  They did not look at the evidence

I see on the news that some people broke into the Capitol and an unarmed white women was shot and killed.  I?m sure the media won?t point that out.  I don?t know who they were. Here the rumor is that it was some Antifa people who tried to turn the peaceful protest into a riot.  They failed at actually starting a riot but they succeeded at giving the media what they wanted to paint the protest as violent. It was not.  I?ve never seen that many people.  It was a sea of people as far as I could see in every direction.  There was a clear view looking back past the Washington monument. I don?t know how many people were here but I a million would not surprise me.

Now Joe Biden can honestly say for the first time that he is the President Elect.
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: Milo on January 07, 2021, 09:52:46 am
No person in his or her right mind could possibly believe a race between a white man and a white man, and a race between a black man and a white woman could come out that close favoring the same party.  It's a mockery of human intelligence to put such a sham out as the truth.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/racism
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: iddee on January 07, 2021, 10:17:21 am
Milo, you actually believe that fits here? You've got to be kidding. I was not judging anything but the populace's reaction to two political races. It had nothing upgrading nor degrading about any race, gender, or anything else.  Any other reference is nothing more than ""playing the race card"" and has no place here.
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: gww on January 07, 2021, 12:35:43 pm
A lady lost her life and biden is still president.  Sounds like a wasted effort. I guess a good enough vacation but more might be learned by just watching the debate on the senate floor.  You had 93 senators that did the right thing and 6 that did not.
Cheers
gww

Ps  I also find it interesting that the poor girl that was killed has a back ground as a trump supporter but instead of recognizing she at least believed enough (wrongly) to put herself in harm,  the other supporters start claiming antifa.  She is not even getting the credit from her own for at least being on their side.
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: Ben Framed on January 07, 2021, 04:04:44 pm
A lady lost her life and biden is still president.  Sounds like a wasted effort. I guess a good enough vacation but more might be learned by just watching the debate on the senate floor.  You had 93 senators that did the right thing and 6 that did not.
Cheers
gww

Ps  I also find it interesting that the poor girl that was killed has a back ground as a trump supporter but instead of recognizing she at least believed enough (wrongly) to put herself in harm,  the other supporters start claiming antifa.  She is not even getting the credit from her own for at least being on their side.


Our nation's capital building is a sacred place in my opinion. A person cannot walk more sacred Halls in any other building; (in my opinion) unless it was in a Church. I am saddened that anyone would even consider entering without authorization, its security boundaries. I am shocked that any person who did so is alive today, that includes members of both sides which were photographed inside. It is sad that the 14 year Air Force veteran lost her life. Our Capital should be secure no matter the protester or the protesters views. In my opinion. Not one person or group of people should ever storm our Nations' Capital Building, breaching its boundaries and intruding period. I am astonished that the whole group was not riddled with a spray of gunfire, killing many of both sides. Thankfully that did not happen. Had it been China or Russia, the results might have been much different.

> You had 93 senators that did the right thing and 6 that did not.

I disagree. Is this your (view), that the six did the wrong thing, or instead, because the Constitution does not allow? Are you claiming they broke some sort of rule of the meeting of session? If so which? Please explain you claim and be clear.
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: gww on January 07, 2021, 04:54:01 pm
ben
Quote
I disagree. Is this your (view), that the six did the wrong thing, or instead, because the Constitution does not allow? Are you claiming they broke some sort of rule of the meeting of session? If so which? Please explain you claim and be clear.

I am claiming that they did the wrong thing by the constitution and also by their method.  Even you who claim to have pure belief and think something might be right, I would have more respect for cause different views (even though you are wrong) are a god given right.  That does not mean I would not fight your views if you believed a government deserves to have a king over it.  The representatives are part governing system that get their position by getting elected.  They know the rules when they run.  To try and use such a position to spread things they know are wrong and out side of the system is wrong and against the very system and people they took an oath to defend.

When it seems their total position on one of the states was mail in ballots that in the end were not even part of the count as being a tool to throw out tons of legitimate votes.  This is for sure not out of dumbness as they are most of them highly educated.  This could only be cause they think every else is that dumb.  Their motives do not seem to be pure but they will keep it going and make a bunch of money and keep one part of society hopped up on lies which is what caused yesterday.  They could fix legitimate problems in elections and could have did it before the election and still could.  It can be done and was done in Florida after the hanging chad.  They do not have to tie the election results to it when the election would not have been affected.

Their motives are not seeming to be pure and they seem to be working for something personal and not for the American people.  I think mitch mcconnal said it good and I think mitt romney said it best.  They are being destructive.
Cheers
gww
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: Milo on January 07, 2021, 04:58:34 pm
It had nothing upgrading nor degrading about any race, gender, or anything else.  Any other reference is nothing more than ""playing the race card"" and has no place here.

If you do not understand how the formation of your statement is racist then I will call it out.

You stated that it was a mockery of human intelligence that a black man could be voted in in preference to a white woman, and that the vote was similar or the same to the vote between two white men.

That Sir, is racist

It is not playing the race card, it is actually off topic, it was reported to moderators, I waited, I then called out the behaviour.

I am being polite but if you think that I misconstrued your comment, then I apologise.

I should have PMd you, however it is done.
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: gww on January 07, 2021, 05:06:29 pm
ben
One other thing about me.  I hurt my kids feeling and they said that maybe we should just not talk about about it.
I responded with that me being a daddy, If I saw you about to run out in the road in front of a car, I might be rough in my manner of trying to save you but I would not be much of a parent if I did not try.  I am smart enough with my kids to know that that is a two way street.

The motive does matter.

I would also like to address your protection of the capitol ideology.  I think it harsh action could be justified on how to protect the building.  The capitol police seem to be getting a lot of scrutiny today.  I even go so far to believe some people deserve to die.  I do think in hind sight though that maybe even if the people got by the capitol police, it is a godly miracle that only one got killed (and would have been better if none got killed).  Of course three more died and there were about 50 injuries.  I think it was a horrible risk that gained nothing but pain for those involved but am very thankful that even the guilty did not get hurt up to what was possible to have happened.   

Cheers
gww
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: Ben Framed on January 07, 2021, 06:07:26 pm
ben
One other thing about me.  I hurt my kids feeling and they said that maybe we should just not talk about about it.
I responded with that me being a daddy, If I saw you about to run out in the road in front of a car, I might be rough in my manner of trying to save you but I would not be much of a parent if I did not try.  I am smart enough with my kids to know that that is a two way street.

The motive does matter.
Cheers
gww

We must correct our children when we see they error. Correction is never a fun part of being a good parent, but we must as we love for them. When it becomes necessary from time to time of needing to correct them, as good parents with the great responsibility of such, we must make sure we have our facts correct with no stone left unturned before correction if we hope to keep and maintain that childs' respect after correction. We must show them that they are clearly wrong before correction. Sometimes that clear insight and explanation of the wrong may be correction enough if the child sees clearly and understands having a change of heart and in agreement with the adult. This is a critical part of being a good parent.
Even still when a parent does everything right, that does not insure the child will grow up making the right choices and decisions. If so at least a parent knows he or her did their best. I am happy that this is your intention of being that good parent. 

Senator Ted Cruze, is one of the six senators that you say violated the constitution and did the wrong thing. Senator Cruz is a Constitutional Lawyer, not only a parent.  Not only does he have his family responsibilities of a parent, but the heavy responsibilities of protecting our Nation and our Nation's' Constitutional Rights and laws under that Constitution.
He claims different than you claim. He claims he and the other 6 not only have those rights to question under the Constitution at the time they did, but a duty to American and the Constitution to do such via those granted, for times as these under that same Constitution. Now; was he lying? If you watched his statement you would know what he had to say word to word when he questioned the legitimacy of Arizona and it electoral votes. Again was he lying? I ask you to be clear. Where and what part of the constitution did he and the six Senators violate? You should have already had the answer the first time I ask you. Where Senator Cruze lied or out of order.

I would also like to address your protection of the capitol ideology.  I think it harsh action could be justified on how to protect the building.  The capitol police seem to be getting a lot of scrutiny today.  I even go so far to believe some people deserve to die.  I do think in hind sight though that maybe even if the people got by the capitol police, it is a godly miracle that only one got killed (and would have been better if none got killed).  Of course three more died and there were about 50 injuries.  I think it was a horrible risk that gained nothing but pain for those involved but am very thankful that even the guilty did not get hurt up to what was possible to have happened.   

Cheers
gww
I addressed your last paragraph in my statement in my last reply. Very sad to see the kaos, when Mr Pulitzer could have easily put all questions to rest. As Mr Binnall, Senator Cruze, as well as countless others including the millions of Americans that Mr Cruze mentioned in his statement. People with questions of fraud go jump in the lake as Senator Cruze put it.
Sad
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: gww on January 07, 2021, 06:28:49 pm
Because senator cruz is a constitutional laywer, he knows the courts is where stuff has been addressed.  He knows the states send the certified delegates counts.  He knows what is supposed to happen with those by the constitution.  He is not the only constitutional laywer that has weighed in on this part of the constitution.  He is not consistent on his stand of state rights based on situational gain or loss meaning even knowing he does not care.

The question back to you is, if you heard cruz, than you surely herd the other testimony from those countering his points.  A dumb guy like me can not be considered a better communicator that those other testimonies.
Yes, he is one of the worst cause though he is smart, he is trying to use that smartness for evil.  He is so smart that he knows what he is doing which makes him more guilty than somebody who is being manipulated by what he does.
Cheers
gww

Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: Ben Framed on January 07, 2021, 06:55:06 pm
Because senator cruz is a constitutional laywer, he knows the courts is where stuff has been addressed.  He knows the states send the certified delegates counts.  He knows what is supposed to happen with those by the constitution.  He is not the only constitutional laywer that has weighed in on this part of the constitution.  He is not consistent on his stand of state rights based on situational gain or loss meaning even knowing he does not care.

The question back to you is, if you heard cruz, than you surely herd the other testimony from those countering his points.  A dumb guy like me can not be considered a better communicator that those other testimonies.
Yes, he is one of the worst cause though he is smart, he is trying to use that smartness for evil.  He is so smart that he knows what he is doing which makes him more guilty than somebody who is being manipulated by what he does.
Cheers
gww

No, You have yet to answer my question. Which will now be the third time. What part of Senator Cruz statement was unconstitutional during the hearing of the vote? Reminding you to please be clear. I would hope you would support your claim stating his questions and suggestions are unconstitutional. That's all gww, I am not asking you to build a space rocket. Simply support of your claim.




                                                                                                                                                                                .




 

Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: gww on January 07, 2021, 07:12:49 pm
Ben
I don't have to jump at your beck and call when you have not believed even the things pointed out and always go back to which part is untrue. 

You know, michael bush says, it was peaceful where he was and than throws in that right wing media was reporting that maybe antifa was there.  From that point forward, the lie is out there for those who are dying to believe.  Michael did not tell a technical lie but now the belief is going to be that antifa did it.  It will not matter at that point of belief that the girl that got killed was a trump supporter of that there are several photos of right wing internet heros sitting in pelosi's chair and walking around in the capitol.  The only thing going to be latched onto is the lie by those who apparently need the lie.

Micheal bolton just called cruze a liar on national news and you want me to make you believe it.  I probaly can't and have not been able to on any other point.  In the end.  I don't mind discussing this with you but am smart enough to know the real audience might be others that read this stuff.   

I am not smart enough and am too lazy to retain or search for direct answers on call.  My mind does not work in that fashion but I listen to it all and give value to all that is said, kick in my bull crap meter and can come to the whole truth and do not have to rely on is this very little one thing true or not.  I see you are not built that way.

Cheers
gww
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: Ben Framed on January 07, 2021, 07:15:58 pm
Ben
I don't have to jump at your beck and call when you have not believed even the things pointed out and always go back to which part is untrue. 

You know, michael bush says, it was peaceful where he was and than throws in that right wing media was reporting that maybe antifa was there.  From that point forward, the lie is out there for those who are dying to believe.  Michael did not tell a technical lie but now the belief is going to be that antifa did it.  It will not matter at that point of belief that the girl that got killed was a trump supporter of that there are several photos of right wing internet heros sitting in pelosi's chair and walking around in the capitol.  The only thing going to be latched onto is the lie by those who apparently need the lie.

Micheal bolton just called cruze a liar on national news and you want me to make you believe it.  I probaly can't and have not been able to on any other point.  In the end.  I don't mind discussing this with you but am smart enough to know the real audience might be others that read this stuff.   

I am not smart enough and am too lazy to retain or search for direct answers on call.  My mind does not work if that fashion but I listen to it all ang give value to all that is said, kick in my bull crap meter and can come to the whole truth and do not have to rely on is this very little one thing true or not.  I see you are not built that way.

Cheers
gww

I had company come in and didn't have time to edit which I have now done. Re read
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: gww on January 07, 2021, 07:25:25 pm
Ben
I will just say that the protest part of the constitution was taken out of context by cruze as his claims being proper under it explained by multiple sources that have just as much as a constitutional lawyer pedigree as cruze does.
Plus my first statement above on position switching which points to nothing meaning nothing.  Plus more if I ever decide it is worth working my fingers so hard.
Cheers
gww
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: iddee on January 07, 2021, 08:17:10 pm
"You stated that it was a mockery of human intelligence that a black man could be voted in in preference to a white woman, and that the vote was similar or the same to the vote between two white men.""

That is totally false. I said there was no way that two races that diverse could possibly come out that close in both, with the same party winning, unless it was planned that way in advance, and it would be a mockery to human intelligence to think anyone would believe. I only named the members of the diversity, with no reference to any attributes of any of them.

No, you shouldn't have PM'ed me. If you misconstrued my post that badly, others may have, too. It needs to be out in the open to get the truth out.
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: Ben Framed on January 07, 2021, 09:19:43 pm
 In case anyone might have missed Senator Cruz Statement during the vote.
 
"We gather together at a moment of great division, of a moment of great passion, we have seen and no doubt will continue to see a great deal of moralizing from both sides of the isle. But I would urge to both sides perhaps a bit less certitude and a bit more recognition that we are gathered at a time when democracy is in crisis. Recent polling shows that 39% of Americans believe the election that just occurred quote "was rigged". You may not agree with that assessment but it is nonetheless a reality for nearly half the country. I would note it is not just Republicans who believe that; 31% of independence agree with that statement 17% of Democrats believe the election was rigged. Even if you do not share that conviction, it is the responsibility I believe of this office to acknowledge that is a profound threat to this country, and to the legitimacy of any administration that will come in the future. I want to take a moment to speak to my Democratic colleagues. I understand, your guy is winning right now. If Democrats vote as a block, Joe Biden will almost certainly be certified as the next president of the United States. I want to speak to the Republicans who are considering voting against these objections. I understand your concerns but I urge you to pause and think what does it say to the nearly half the country that believe this election was rigged if we vote not even to consider the claims of illegality and fraud in this election. And I believe there's a better way. The leaders just spoke about setting aside the election let me be clear I am not arguing for setting aside the results of this election. All of us are faced with two choices both of which are lousy one choice is vote against the objection and tens of millions of Americans will see a vote against the objection as a Statement that voter fraud doesn't matter isn't real and shouldn't be taken seriously. And a great many of us don't believe that. On the other hand most if not all of us believe we should not set aside the results of an election just because our candidate may not have prevailed. And so I endeavor to look for door number 3; a third option and for that I look to history. To the presentment of 1876 election The Hayes/Tilden election where THIS Congress appointed an electoral commission to examine claims of voter fraud 5 house members 5 Senators 5 Supreme Court justices examined the evidence and rendered a judgement. And what I would urge of this body is that we do the same, that we appointed an electoral commission to conduct a ten-day emergency audit consider the evidence and resolve the claims.  For those on the Democratic isle who says, say there is no evidence they've been rejected; Then you should rest in comfort if that's the case that an electoral commission would reject those claims. But for those who respect the voters, simply telling the voters go jump in a lake the fact that you have deep concerns of no moment to us that jeopardizes I believe, the legitimacy of this and subsequent elections the Constitution gives the Congress the responsibility this day to count the votes the framers knew what they were doing when they gave responsibilities to Congress we have a responsibility; And I would urge that we follow the pretense of 1877 the Electoral Account Act explicitly allows objections such as this one for votes that we're not regularly given. And let me be clear this objection is for the State of Arizona but is is broader than that. It is an objection for all six of the contested states to have a credible objective impartial body hear the evidence and make a conclusive determination. That would benefit both sides that would improve legitimacy of this election. And so let me urge my colleagues All of us take our responsibility seriously. I would urge my colleagues don't take perhaps the easy path; But instead act together, astonish the viewers, and act in a bipartisan sense to say we will have a credible and fair tribunal consider the claim to consider the fact consider the evidence and make a conclusive determination whether and to what extent this election complied with the Construction  and with Federal Law."   Senator Ted Cruz
 
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: gww on January 07, 2021, 10:08:01 pm
Ben
What is the normal percentage in every election that people think it was rigged?  How much has that changed with people like cruez and the pres. using their high profile platform to spread misstruth?  Spreading it even before the election happened.  What is the percentage of the population believe the moon landing was faked or the earth is flat?  How many believe 911 was known before it happened?

Spreading false hoods could have increased this belief.  Its like a big circle, you spread it and use the fact that people become interested as a reason to spread it.  Why is cruez not picking the moon landing to investigate?  A percentage of people believe that.

There are always mistakes in elections cause elections are so big but fraud is different.  Grahm said they told him they had thousands of dead voters and he ask them to show him ten and they showed him one.

It was a lie that he said he was not trying to change the election but his answer to the investigation was to hold up the count.  He was lying cause both can not be true.

It was the wrong format for his protest under the constitution.


In 1877 they had two gov in some states and recieved two sets of delegates from the states and that was why the protest part was in the constitution.  The result was a jim crow south.  Not the same as what happened now.

The electoral collage picks president based on a vote of the people, not congress.  The times for protest is in the constitution.

Believe what you will but posting his statement will not make facts not facts.
Cheers
gww

If he was telling the truth and it was not attached to changing the election results than it will only be a some time for hearings and such for all those doubters.  Not Violating the time lines of the constitution will have no impact on the truth. and so his claim of his intent does not ring true at all.  Changing the election requires proof by a certain time and for good reason, we would never get a president if they could just keep filing frivolous law suits.
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: Ben Framed on January 07, 2021, 11:26:37 pm
Ben
>What is the normal percentage in every election that people think it was rigged?

I do not know. I am sure there are always questions of irregularities in any election. This election is quite different. Never has alleged fraud been reported on such a large scale as this election with such a magnitude according to many who keep up with such things. As Mr Binall put it, "our phones never stopped ringing" The reports are overwhelming in numbers as well as sworn statements. Reports of Republicans viewers locked out of talling rooms not allowed inside until filing suit in some situations. Then when finally allowed inside corralled behind gates as animals in some cases. Reports of Cardboard placed on windows. Insubordination of chain of command, ballots being pulled from beneath tables and ran through the machines after republican watchers and news officials were told to go home for false reasons yet when the remainder of democrat counters right back to it for hours as been reported. Also reported to being captured and recorded by video of the cameras of the counting room. Why wouldn't  so many Americans of each party have so many questions of this election? As Mr Bush so graciously pointed out the above reasons. Not to mention the alleged shredding of votes. Questions which deserved to be looked into, not ignored as Senator Cruz plead to American Senators and Representatives in the voting meeting for the good of America. Allowed by the Constitution may I add. 
Here at beemaster alone several points of questions, Starting back a few a topics here in the coffee house. Questions concerning the mysterious doings and goings on of this election on election night. Sawdstmkrs' topic for example: (Michigan voter exposed). A good place to start for those which may be interested in trying to learn of concerns. The place where I first remember hearing of voting machines being in question. After the mysterious halting of vote counts on election night, about the same time. And remember the machines were not legally allowed to be connected to the internet. So was it an accident that this happened at six key swing states and almost the same time? Not in just one key state but several.  NEVER have I heard of such until the reporter from Brazil chimed in to America with a heads up. Reply 3 same topic: Michigan voter fraud exposed. An actual eyewitness-reporter form Brazile who witnessed the same strange happenings throughout several South American countries and also reported more questions there in Michigan where he was also an eyewitness. Reply 3 of the same topic. When this came up. I checked for accuracy it was already public information. Everywhere; Big News; except ignored by the leftist news stations. Independent news along with some majors. The whole time main stream was telling their viewers it was bunkum; imagination of the republicans. You on the right do not question keep your questions to yourself; (or in Ted Cruz words, "go jump in the lake").
In reality, I concentrated of just two questions here on this topic. Questing Mr Binalls statement as wanting to know if it is true; and Mr Pulitzers' statement to Fulton Co Georgia seeking to know if his statements are true as well. Both witnesses made very good points in my opinion. I could easily go on and on. With other major questions. At the present time I have no desire.
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: gww on January 08, 2021, 12:02:10 am
The questions are being promoted by people with a big platform and an intent to manipulate as many as possible.  Of course you all are going to hear a lot.  I hear a lot and then put it in context to how the world really works knowing everybody on all sides had an agenda.  Then comes the smell test put in context to our form of government.  Over all, once past my natural distrust of every one, the left has it more correct if a person gives a crap about facts compared to fantasy.  The biggest problem with you guys being so strong on your beliefs and out side of the facts are going to be the back lash causing laws to be passed for more control.  If you can not recognize the facts than the over kill response coming becomes easier to justify and then all suffer.  Just like 911 and now I have to use my birth certificate and proof of mailing address just to get a drivers license so I could even take just a domestic flight.  Get on a list and I could be banned with out even knowing is until I try and fly (which I don't intend to do).  It did not used to be that way and we did ok.
I could go on but that is the cause and effect of things.  Then the new stuff never goes away.  At least if you were going to make a fight of it. Pick something you are right on so the backlash is at least worth it.  My view is that those not recognizing the facts are going to make things over all worse and I hate those twisting the facts worse just to manipulate perceived personal gain.
Cheers
gww
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: Ben Framed on January 08, 2021, 01:40:03 am
>The questions are being promoted by people with a big platform and an intent to manipulate as many as possible.

From all we have discussed you still stand of such a statement? I can not speak for people "with a big platform and an intent to manipulate as many people as possible". By their continued "go jump in the lake attitude" you could easily be describing the left. What news station did you hear that from or get that idea? Or is this the way you "put it in context" in your own thinking, which equals you personal opinion? The fact that Mr Pulitzer has sworn he could have settled these important questions, of ballots and the paper in which they originated barcodes voter signature and so forth and so on in only hours and down to the very last ballot disproves your theory. You and America had everything to gain. Both sides would have won either way. A giant first step in bringing Americans back together again and healing. In a way a politician could have not have done. I say it is those which will ignore just this one fact, this one piece of evidence being Mr Pulitzer himself being that evidence is he who is living in fantasy, either that or totally scared the actual facts may come out showing the left they may been lied to by their media.. To clarify; meaning any news outlets that did not go along with their claims. Or could it simply be many despise truth, choosing to dispose of truth or snuff truth out if it does not suit their own purpose. I will once again just for fun remind you what Fletcher told the Senator in the movie The Outlaw Josey Wales, something about his back and telling him its raining.

> Over all, once past my natural distrust of every one.

I am sorry to hear that. There is one you can trust.

>The biggest problem with you guys being so strong on your beliefs and out side of the facts are going to be the back lash causing laws to be passed for more control.

I can't speak for "you guys" I can speak only for myself. My two main questions were legitimate though they may be inconvenient to you. That is why we have a first amendment. My questions are just as important as you desire to shut me up. Actually my questions are more important, Under our present Constitution and protected by such.

> At least if you were going to make a fight of it. Pick something you are right on so the backlash is at least worth it.

I have had two main questions, that seem to scare the dickens out of you as you have fought these basic two questions tooth and nail. Now you have forced me to ask yet another with your Ted Cruze and 5 other Senators claim.

> My view is that those not recognizing the facts are going to make things over all worse and I hate those twisting the facts worse just to manipulate perceived personal gain.

In my opinion this debate plainly exposes those who wish to ignore the obvious questions, twisting the facts. Including my three questions to you in this debate. To be clear, Two; plus the Ted Cruz question.
Notice I kept using the past tense, as your man has won legitimately or not. We may not know the real truth until the Day of The Lord. It would have been good for our nation if the stubbornness and rejection of Mr Pulitzer would have been laid aside and truth made manifest.

https://youtu.be/sHu1gBF0gmI
 

Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: gww on January 08, 2021, 02:24:22 am
Ben
Your questions and the fact that your questions are the only thing you look at end up being good for continually keeping the lie going.  I got a question for you.  Was it antifa that stormed the capitol?  Was the reporter that reported that to the whole world telling a lie?  Well, was he?  You like posting the exact thing over and over in the same thread.  Maybe every time you do. I will post this.
Quote
Joseph Goebbels: On the ?Big Lie?
|
Biography
|
On the Jewish Question
?If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.?


From you
Quote
By their continued "go jump in the lake attitude" you could easily be describing the left. What news station did you hear that from or get that idea?
Your attitude is the same by only caring about one thing however as I said earlier, there is the fact and there is misleading and on this subject looking at both, the left is winning the fact battle.

The election is run by the state, the supreme court addressed the issue of the machines before and after the election. Trump was in a position of power to change the rules on the machines and can not claim ignorance on knowing about them.  The constitution has rules and time lines.  Trump had plenty of resources to address this if he could come up with legitimate Proof. 

The election is over and biden is president.  Your guy has forever to prove this wrong and in four years, perhaps you will not be so easily impressed by these multiple posted videos' of your.  As I said before, nobody can make you see past what you want to see.  You are welcome to be blind by choice.  No, I don't know everything and yes I could be surprised but not by any video or others statements in this thread posted by you.  The same ones in multiple places.  You talk about the left, Only about 39 percent of the right believe what you are showing means what you are implying. That is unless you are saying cruez is lying in his statement.  That is less than half of the people who voted for trump.
It might take a little longer for the rest with those that keep spreading junk that won't meet the slightest burden of proof in a real court of law.
Cheers
gww



Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: Ben Framed on January 08, 2021, 03:06:38 am
Ben
Your questions and the fact that your questions are the only thing you look at end up being good for continually keeping the lie going.  I got a question for you.  Was it antifa that stormed the capitol?  Was the reporter that reported that to the whole world telling a lie?  Well, was he?  You like posting the exact thing over and over in the same thread.  Maybe every time you do. I will post this.
Quote
Joseph Goebbels: On the ?Big Lie?
|
Biography
|
On the Jewish Question
?If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.?


From you
Quote
By their continued "go jump in the lake attitude" you could easily be describing the left. What news station did you hear that from or get that idea?
Your attitude is the same by only caring about one thing however as I said earlier, there is the fact and there is misleading and on this subject looking at both, the left is winning the fact battle.

The election is run by the state, the supreme court addressed the issue of the machines before and after the election. Trump was in a position of power to change the rules on the machines and can not claim ignorance on knowing about them.  The constitution has rules and time lines.  Trump had plenty of resources to address this if he could come up with legitimate Proof. 

The election is over and biden is president.  Your guy has forever to prove this wrong and in four years, perhaps you will not be so easily impressed by these multiple posted videos' of your.  As I said before, nobody can make you see past what you want to see.  You are welcome to be blind by choice.  No, I don't know everything and yes I could be surprised but not by any video or others statements in this thread posted by you.  The same ones in multiple places.  You talk about the left, Only about 39 percent of the right believe what you are showing means what you are implying. That is unless you are saying cruez is lying in his statement.  That is less than half of the people who voted for trump.
It might take a little longer for the rest with those that keep spreading junk that won't meet the slightest burden of proof in a real court of law.
Cheers
gww

I am happy to see that you read my post of Mr Cruz Statement. I am pleased that Mr Cruz was so clear that you could understand. As you know, I have posted nothing I have not been able to support with back up and references as I have constantly done. Be it a video in Mr Pulitzers case or a statement in Mr Binall case or Mr Cruz case. You have yet to specifically reference any thing you have posted and claimed as disproof of my claims, except a 40 page report with no specific reference, only making hollow claims and accusations. I find it useless to go past two or three questions with someone who constantly filibusters, with unsubstantiated in attempt to disallow my claims. I will give you credit though, you are good at is accusing


PS Good night gww. I am sleepy. lol




                                                                                                                                                                               .         
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: gww on January 08, 2021, 03:52:35 am
Ben
The 40 page thing you mention was a state supreme court ruling but I had already figured out that you did not care about any legitimate source when you can go to internet heroes.  I only posted mine in one place cause it was from a reputable source that did not have to be repeated bunches of times to give it merit with most readers.  I mentioned where you could go a few times for better info but perhaps as I have been implying since about my fifth or sixth post, you seem not to really be searching for truth but more enjoying trying to work people to death to disprove conspiracy theories rather than understand the person with the theory is the one that needs to provide proof.  You are the one that stated you believe them, not me, but you like trump, are not willing to prove them. 

Your back up statements have all been thrown out of court and you can not make your self even admit one point could be wrong.  Like does binnals statement say that none of the illegal immigrants became americans since they got their license?  You gloss over and ask "is binnall lying" but do not look at what could make his statement not mean the fraud he is claiming.  He couldn't either and that is why he lost in court. 

This is how I know you are not sincere in your pleading that I just want the truth.  You want to convince me or tear me down.  I am doing the same since a few threads in and my getting the previous mentioned feeling about you.   So now we are having a stimulating conversation for others to read and take what they can from it.  I feel good about most of what I have typed and am fine with that.  I believe enough facts are is on my side and many reading it will understand.

Since your post is mostly that somebody made a statement or video, You probably could of posted it just once or they may have seen your point from the original source with out you.   Hum, lets see, video or court ruling based on stuff from video, What should an american give credence too?

I did not think I had to post the constitution cause that is open source every where and easy to get.

Cheers
gww

Ps Your "LOL" in you Ps at the end of the post is pretty close to one of the few times I have seen you use it in a laughing with you manner.  Good for you and good for me.
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: Acebird on January 08, 2021, 08:43:16 am
I am sure gww that you know for Trump and his cult facts don't really matter.  The rule of law doesn't really matter.  And the constitution is only relevant for cherry picking.
At this point Trump being reelected is a moot point he should be removed and locked up.  Let Pence have 12 days at the presidency.  Probably all he will be able to attain.
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: gww on January 08, 2021, 12:28:00 pm
Ace
I am not the best at following rules.  I base my decisions on how am I hurting or helping and if not hurting, even if not helping that much, I do what I want.  Picking a president by the rules of the land is one of those things that helps and not doing it that way is one of the things that would really hurt all.  It is a rule we should follow.

What is really sad is that a lot of trump supporters are going to be punished yet trump goes out yesterday and throws them under the buss in a speech (like he does every one if it comes down to him or them).  Trump, hawley, rudy and cruez and more will keep trucking like nothing happened.  It reminds me of the meat packing plant owners that go down to mexico with busses to get their work force and then it is the worker who get raided after being used and abused. 

Trump does not live by the same standard or have the same values as those that support him.

I guess if you kick a dog long enough, that dog might look forward to the kick and the kick might make him feel important..

That still does not mean that people believing they are doing the right thing with sedition are not still committing some kind of treason.

Protesting against the constitutional government is a bit different then protesting for more rights or fixes to the constitutional government.  Who would have a king?  Not me.
Cheers
gww
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: minz on January 08, 2021, 02:46:12 pm
There is a lot of pictures of the people that did bad things out there. Now with the cop dead they are going to parade them around in handcuffs as a public example. After loosing in GA and the Senate does anybody think he would not be impeached by the end of the month if he did get 5 states to overturn their elections?
I don?t follow politics and have been losing sleep over the events of this week. I imagine that those that really follow it must be physically sick. Just the discussion of the President being removed as being unstable or the legacy that he will have is terrible.
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: cidersabuzzin on January 09, 2021, 05:28:43 am
There is a lot of pictures of the people that did bad things out there. Now with the cop dead they are going to parade them around in handcuffs as a public example. After loosing in GA and the Senate does anybody think he would not be impeached by the end of the month if he did get 5 states to overturn their elections?
I don?t follow politics and have been losing sleep over the events of this week. I imagine that those that really follow it must be physically sick. Just the discussion of the President being removed as being unstable or the legacy that he will have is terrible.
Minz, Nip down the road and see kathyp, she will probably be able to give you chapter and verse. Although she's been strangly quiet lately. :wink:
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: Acebird on January 09, 2021, 09:42:10 am

Protesting against the constitutional government is a bit different then protesting for more rights or fixes to the constitutional government.  Who would have a king?  Not me.

A ceremonial king like England is one thing.  A dictator, never.
I would say pretty much everyone has broken rules.  Speeding is a given.  But few people say it is alright for me to break a rule but not you.
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: iddee on January 09, 2021, 11:29:11 am
"But few people say it is alright for me to break a rule but not you.""

Unless you are a Dem. in a political position.
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: Michael Bush on January 12, 2021, 01:10:32 pm
We went through this in 2000 and 2001 when Bush beat Gore.  Gore challenged the vote and it went all the way to the Supreme Court.  It was heard.  The votes were recounted with observers and challengers.  Each ballot was inspected carefully by both parties and a count was made.  There was some controversy over dimples and scratches and smudges that the Gore side wanted to count as votes but otherwise it was pretty peaceful and when it was done most people were satisfied that a fair count had occurred.  Still some in the media and some Gore fans insisted that the election was stolen and Bush wasn't really president, but most of America accepted the results.  That's all we want for this election.  Examine the ballots.  A legitimate ballot from a precinct has the initials or signature of the poll workers.  Those can be verified.  The paper should be the same.  The counts from the precinct should match.  The chain of custody should be intact.  Both sides should be able to challenge.  The envelopes from the mail in ballots should have their signatures matched. The ballots should be inspected to see they are the same paper and not copies.  They should be counted with challengers from both sides able to examine each ballot.  Then check the lists that have been made of dead, underage, criminal, out of state and ineligible voters that have been compiled.  Go through the list with challengers from each side and access to databases to look these people up and check.  When you are done you have a transparent election.  That's all anyone wants.
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: gww on January 12, 2021, 02:23:28 pm
Micheal
This election also went to the supreme court and 50 plus other courts.   The judges, some being trump appointments, made rulings with statements like "the presidents claims have no basis in fact or law.  That is how it is done under the constitution as it was in gore.  Gore supporters did not decide that they cared not for the constitution and knew enough more than the courts and officials that they justify an insurrection.  That is a bit different that just having sour grape sore loser thoughts.  Some states have counted three times.  They have run audits on some of the claims to just disprove some of the conspiracy theories.  Both sides had hundred of lawyers thought out and only one side can come up with nothing that will stand up in court  You ask people to think something is wrong with zero proof and to hold up who is president based just on faith.  . That is not a constitutional process. "You say that is all people want" but I say "they are willing to destroy our constitutional government if they don't get what they want whether we like it or not based on just their feeling".  Many of these feelings have been disproved.  The last one is ballot signature.  Before that is was voting machines. Before that is was undocumented voters based of drivers license.  The ball will always switch every time one thing is addressed and there will be a new faith based thing that might have happened.   It could never end and so that is why we have a process in the constitution.  Every body who did not vote like me wants to cheat?  The whole system is rigged and every body in any position of authority is in on it?  It is over, get over it.  Heck, trump claimed fraud when he won in 2016.  What a cry baby.  This feeling of faith with no proof is not a reason to go commit murder.
Cheers
gww
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: salvo on January 12, 2021, 07:49:49 pm
Hi Folks,

I like to think government is better because of my involvement.

However, there is an old saying: He who does the least amount of work, for the most money,... WINS!

OH! And never kill the job.

Appellate Boards will contort themselves shamelessly to claim No Jurisdiction for a particular case.

State lawyers, this year, refused to interact with me, telephone or e-mail, on some issues, because they perceived, not incorrectly, that I was asking them questions for which they had no competent answer. COVID, wrote they.

?Never write if you can speak; never speak if you can nod; never nod if you can wink?.

Sal

Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: Michael Bush on January 13, 2021, 05:24:04 pm
There was no insurrection.  A few BLM, Antifa, and radicals broke some windows and illegally entered the Capitol for which they should be punished.   If the people were there for an insurrection it would have been quite a different outcome.  I did the math.  There were people pretty much shoulder to shoulder for more than a mile behind us, and a half mile either side.  Not counting what I couldn?t see on the other side of the Capitol.  At one person per square yard that is more than 3 million people gr.  That is 1% of the population of the US.  That?s one person out of a hundred.  If they were trying to take over no one there could have stopped it.
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: gww on January 13, 2021, 06:26:33 pm
Michael
While some were beating the cop, there were others picking him up and asking if he was ok.  I give you that.  It is a lie to be blaming the great republican fall back crutch of blm and antifa for the actions at the rally.  It is also wrong for all the republicans using that same crutch to ok their bad actions as if that would make doing evil ok and it should be a race to see who can be worse.  I do not trust your math but also do not know the crowd size but do agree there were many people there.  None of this changes that the reason the president called every one there was the same reason he called the officials in Georgia to find votes.  He was open in this while telling every one that jan 6 would be wild.  Now you may have went just as a show of you liked
 the president and not as a way to put pressure on the representatives to not do their jobs under the constitution.  However, if you went to put pressure on the representative to keep them from following the constitution, it is still an unpatriotic act by you.

The lie that it was some one else who did all the really bad stuff would not justify or change an unpatriotic act.
There is no question that there are different levels of culpability in almost any crowd of people.  Still, If the goal was to change the election out side of the constitution, it is a an affront to america and those in america that believe in the constitution and do not want a dictator gotten by violating the constitution. 

There is nothing wrong with trying to change the constitution if you can get 2/3rd the votes of the representatives.  Because than you would be still following the constitution.  Trying to stop representatives from meeting their obligations under their oath to the constitution is wrong and that is their job to America and having less than even half of trump voters trying to do this is still a wrong act.
Just saying.
Cheers
gww
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: Acebird on January 14, 2021, 09:31:06 am
If they were trying to take over no one there could have stopped it.
They didn't.  The capital was taken over.  What they did not achieve is taking prisoners because there is a safety protocol in place to protect the congress in lieu of an attack.  Assumed to be from a foreign country.
The rioters are as guilty as the rioters in the BLM demonstrations.  There are Trump supporters that disagree with that.  Trump was impeached a second time because he encouraged the rioters.  It fits the definition of treason, could be punishable by death.
Had the senate done their job on the first impeachment this would have never happened.  The election would have been Biden against Pence and might have been a different outcome.  If you want to look for what went wrong look to the senate and their ring leader Mitch for reneging on their oath of office.
Many of the republican senators know what they have done was wrong and have admitted behind closed doors but they fear the mob.  They don't fear Trump anymore but they still fear the mob.
The Trump empire is crashing and Ivanka's hopes and dreams of being the first woman president are vaporizing.  She and her husband have already been snubbed by high society.
Those senators who knew what they were doing was wrong but did it anyway for fear of primary challenges are going to have a hard time justifying their record in next elections.
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: Michael Bush on January 15, 2021, 12:46:42 am
>The rioters are as guilty as the rioters in the BLM demonstrations.  There are Trump supporters that disagree with that.

Absolutely and I have heard NO ONE disagree with that.  They should all be charged with whatever crimes they committed and prosecuted.  If they broke windows or assaulted a police officer they should be charged with that.  A lot of them, however were just let in by the police.  I don't know if you've seen that video, since the mainstream won't show it, but they were.  Those people, I'm not sure committed any crime.

However the narrative that the President incited this is inconsistent with the timeline.  Several DAYS before the FBI was saying there was a plot to do this and there were several arrests before Jan 6.  Then the break-in occurred before Trump finished giving his speech.  Then the people at the rally walked peaceably down to the Capitol.  I left a few minutes early to try to miss some of the crowd and there were flashbangs going off.  I thought it sounded like a cannon and couldn't figure out what they were at first.  None of those people leaving the rally were rioting.  The rioters were already there.

>Trump was impeached a second time because he encouraged the rioters.

Except he didn't.  Both Don Jr and Trump asked for peaceful protest.  Specifically.  Don Jr. made it clear that being violent and destructive was not who we are.  Trump asked for everyone to peacefully and patriotically walk down to the Capitol.  And the riot had already taken place and the Trump people were still at the rally listening to the President.
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: gww on January 15, 2021, 01:57:11 am
I think this is pretty good reasoning. 
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-55640437
He did not do much to help the situation for the six hours he watched it on tv to stop it.  Instead after several hours he repeated his election unproven fraud claims and called them very special people. He defiantly shirked his responsibility here.
He stirred hard with subordinates and tweet invitations  before the date of the riot.
He knew rudy  and others were there stirring also. 

His pattern is clear in his communication style of trying to get his point across in a way that does not pin him down.  You know like, no I did not do it, but if I did it is not wrong.  His one peaceful remark was surrounded by tons of instigating war talk   I guess his call to Pennsylvania was also a perfect call because of this same speaking practice but of course it was not a perfect call. 

In his speech he told the people who to dislike and there are plenty of voices taped from the people breaking in showing they got the message.
There is more coming out daily and probably even more going to be known soon but why wait on impeachment when the above is enough.  It was an attack of the executive branch on the legislative branch where at the very least trump shirked his responsibility but the fact show more that he wanted it and caused it.

Either way you want to look at it, it shows he is too dangerous to hold such an office of responsibility whether being too dumb to know what his actions would cause and to dumb to help while going on or being smart and wanting it to happen.  Either way, people died. This is the kind of thing that happens when promoting a lie over and over.
Cheers
gww
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: sawdstmakr on January 15, 2021, 08:12:09 am
GWW,
Obama did far worse in inciting riots all over this country, cities burned for weeks, about the police shootings, that proved to bee self defense, and nobody in the media or congress did or say anything about it. Not one word. All of them are a bunch of Hippocrates.
Jim Altmiller
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: Acebird on January 15, 2021, 08:58:25 am
How can they claim self defense during a insurrection?
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: Acebird on January 15, 2021, 09:05:46 am
A lot of them, however were just let in by the police.  I don't know if you've seen that video, since the mainstream won't show it, but they were.  Those people, I'm not sure committed any crime.
If you drive the get away car you are part of the crime.  If you stand by and watch your partners in crime shoot or kill someone you are part of the murder.  So I am having a hard time understanding your logic.  The crime was committed when you unlawfully entered the building.  The only only difference is that is was white people.  White people have different standards for themselves.
Apparently you don't watch main stream media because you got that wrong.
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: gww on January 15, 2021, 11:46:35 am
Saw
Good to hear from you.
If it is your position that blacks are bad than it is even more hypocritical to say the capitol is not bad.  That always seems to be the defense in a race to the bottom.  Two wrongs make a right.  That is a whole different subject but not a good defense for wanting to change the will of the people by taking on the government and intimidating representatives to violate their oath.

It was not only all black people that voted for biden and so the trump supporters if successful, would be stealing white people votes also. 

Just saying.
Cheers
gww

Ps  I am pretty sure the cop they killed was white.
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: Ben Framed on January 15, 2021, 01:16:55 pm
> White people have different standards for themselves.
Apparently you don't watch main stream media because you got that wrong.

Ace if that is what main stream media is saying, perhaps they got it wrong? Why is it that you have brought race into this? ie Mr Bush did not mention any race, creed, or color. Unless he edited before I had a look and see above?  From the pictures and videos there were both black and white folks involved in this situation. Including a fellow named John Sullivan. As in the city burnings there were clearly multi-race folks. Are you trying divert the attention of what Mr Bush and sawdstmakr ask? If so why?

ie Mr Bush
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: gww on January 15, 2021, 01:43:19 pm
Ben
Don't be silly.  What were the riots over police shooting.  Jim was comparing the two riots as a round about justification using the issue that the people complained now did not complain before.  It is different but also hypocritical to dislike the earlier but not dislike now.  You will probably take this post and try and go only by the word as written and leave out the substance of the statement.   However in jims defense, he wrote it clear enough for most readers to understand.
Cheers
gww
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: Ben Framed on January 15, 2021, 02:39:23 pm
Ben
Don't be silly.  What were the riots over police shooting.  Jim was comparing the two riots as a round about justification using the issue that the people complained now did not complain before.  It is different but also hypocritical to dislike the earlier but not dislike now.  You will probably take this post and try and go only by the word as written and leave out the substance of the statement.   However in jims defense, he wrote it clear enough for most readers to understand.
Cheers
gww
> It is different but also hypocritical to dislike the earlier but not dislike now.

GWW,
Obama did far worse in inciting riots all over this country, cities burned for weeks, about the police shootings, that proved to bee self defense, and nobody in the media or congress did or say anything about it. Not one word. All of them are a bunch of Hippocrates.
Jim Altmiller

Saw
Good to hear from you.
If it is your position that blacks are bad than it is even more hypocritical to say the capitol is not bad.  That always seems to be the defense in a race to the bottom.  Two wrongs make a right.  That is a whole different subject but not a good defense for wanting to change the will of the people by taking on the government and intimidating representatives to violate their oath.

It was not only all black people that voted for biden and so the trump supporters if successful, would be stealing white people votes also. 

Just saying.
Cheers
gww

Ps  I am pretty sure the cop they killed was white.

I can not speak for Jim. Although his post 147 is clear. He said not one word about race nor did he bring race into it. He simply pointed out facts of what he considered hypocrisy when unlawful events and situations which have taken place, are compared by comparing the reactions of media and congress ? Is that right? Or did I miss something?  Adding I did not read where sawdstmakr "disliked the earlier but not dislike now."  To suggest my reply my be to silly, in this case, is not justifiable. I will ask you as I ask Ace. Are you also attempting to defer or deflect the points of Mr Bush and Jim by adding race into the situation?

> White people have different standards for themselves.
Apparently you don't watch main stream media because you got that wrong.

Ace if that is what main stream media is saying, perhaps they got it wrong? Why is it that you have brought race into this? ie Mr Bush did not mention any race, creed, or color. Unless he edited before I had a look and see above?  From the pictures and videos there were both black and white folks involved in this situation. Including a fellow named John Sullivan. As in the city burnings there were clearly multi-race folks. Are you trying divert the attention of what Mr Bush and sawdstmakr ask? If so why?

Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: gww on January 15, 2021, 03:07:48 pm
ben
You are silly in your word play.
I will make the point really simple for you.  There is no excuse to justify trying to intimidate or stop elected representatives from fulfilling their oath under the constitutions.
Bait and switch all you want but all post including micheal's' and jims is around the justifications of what happened at the capital.

You too are posting on defense of something there is no defense for.  You try and change the subject to my and ace's actions instead of the subject at hand.  You are silly in this and I just called it out.
Cheers
gww
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: Ben Framed on January 15, 2021, 03:20:04 pm
ben
You are silly in your word play.
I will make the point really simple for you.  There is no excuse to justify trying to intimidate or stop elected representatives from fulfilling their oath under the constitutions.
Bait and switch all you want but all post including micheal's' and jims is around the justifications of what happened at the capital.

You too are posting on defense of something there is no defense for.  You try and change the subject to my and ace's actions instead of the subject at hand.  You are silly in this and I just called it out.
Cheers
gww

Bunkum.........


Our nation's capital building is a sacred place in my opinion. A person cannot walk more sacred Halls in any other building; (in my opinion) unless it was in a Church. I am saddened that anyone would even consider entering without authorization, its security boundaries. I am shocked that any person who did so is alive today, that includes members of both sides which were photographed inside. It is sad that the 14 year Air Force veteran lost her life. Our Capital should be secure no matter the protester or the protesters views. In my opinion. Not one person or group of people should ever storm our Nations' Capital Building, breaching its boundaries and intruding period. I am astonished that the whole group was not riddled with a spray of gunfire, killing many of both sides. Thankfully that did not happen. Had it been China or Russia, the results might have been much different.


Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: gww on January 15, 2021, 03:44:53 pm
ben
That is a nice post of highlights however, your position is though out this thread, that the courts and the officials are crooked and that ted cruez and binnell are not lieing,  it is this very lie that is the justification for those to destroy our system of government.

This makes your statement that you highlighted of your disgust about as believable as trumps statement with one peaceful reference surrounded by 90 minutes of war talk.

You were also calling out hypocrisy of others in a discussion of justification or not of capitol protesters in these later responses today.  There has to be intent for that input from you.

Which are we to believe, the last highlighted statement or the whole thread put in context?
Just saying.
Cheers
gww

PS  To make the point even more, in your own highlighted statement, you posted this misleading thing.
Quote
that includes members of both sides which were photographed inside.
  Yea, right.
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: MikeyN.C. on January 15, 2021, 07:39:44 pm
Gww, where is Nancy's laptop, have a clue, I'll wait for your response. Ok , and I'm sure I'll be waiting rite.
M. Bush said their was people all ready their before , Trump's speech was done. Do we know this for sure or are we listen to what we're told ? If u have those answers please share.
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: gww on January 15, 2021, 07:53:15 pm
mickey
Can't answer your questions. Don't understand meaning of your questions either except for the bush part which he covered.  However, a 90 minute speech would give plenty of time for people to come and go and does not have much real meaning in the big picture.  Maybe the mob got turned on by different parts of that speech.  Maybe you can tell me?  If you can't then I guess we have to go on the things there are no questions about.  Of course they are finding more every day.  I am patient.
Cheers
gww
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: MikeyN.C. on January 15, 2021, 08:00:53 pm
My question to everyone on this thread, why on God's green earth was there not security measures not takin. Before this . FBI knew about it. Was it Pelosi and sergeant of arm, that declines support.?

Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: gww on January 15, 2021, 08:07:31 pm
Mickey
I do not understand the meaning of your last few words but believe the question you are asking is on most peoples mind and I do believe there is going to be a big look at the why and more answers will hopefully be coming.
Cheers
gww
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: Ben Framed on January 15, 2021, 09:04:04 pm
gww I enjoy a good debate. You know and knew good and well before you wrote "your position is though out this thread, that the courts and the officials are crooked".  You know that is not true. I have fluently, many times responded to this false-hood and false accusation from you by quoting Mr Binal as he has said;  "Our evidence has never been refuted only ignored." Has his words changed? Has his position changed? Has he admitted to perjury or been accused of such? I feel I am at a great disadvantage of your word twisting. As this is not my method or desire.

To debate with you is not a normal debate, but a steady defence from a steady flow false accusations and word twisting. I am disappointed that you would twist Jims words and meanings aiming toward the end result of race. As Jim clearly never mentioned race or insinuated as much. Go back and read.

>You were also calling out hypocrisy of others in a discussion of justification or not of capitol protesters in these later responses today.  There has to be intent for that input from you.

I have not called out the hypocrisy of others, but I did question why would you bring up race. Jims' reference was about the media and congress. Jim did not say anything about race; but the unlawful violence of burning cities. As I quoted his statement and the fact that the mainstream media, or congress "never said a word"

> PS  To make the point even more, in your own highlighted statement, you posted this misleading thing.
Quote
that includes members of both sides which were photographed inside.
  Yea, right.

"Yea, right.": No my friend wrong. Jesse Sullivan is just one on the left. Do you know who Jesse Sullivan is? Has the left stream media mentioned him?
 
I will remind you, This is a FRIENDLY community where you can talk about any topic OTHER than Beekeeping. Please respect the feelings and cultures of others."
I have striven for this goal, in good faith. It is not fun or friendly to have every response to you turned and twisted into what you would like for it to mean instead of taking it at face value. Do you consider that good faith on you part?

Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: gww on January 15, 2021, 09:41:17 pm
ben
To me jesse just seems to be a moth drawn to the brightest flame.  Just watch.  Interesting fact, his brother started a pro trump organization.  No biggie, he is like the rest of the internet kings putting their crimes on the internet and now setting in jail.
Cheers
gww
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: Acebird on January 16, 2021, 09:38:15 am
Why is it that you have brought race into this? Jim did not mention any race, creed, or color. Unless he edited before I had a look and see above?
Phil, I did not quote Jim.  Please reread the post.  I mentioned race because it answers the question "What is the main problem within every metropolitan police force?"  Racism is the reason why some officers let the white folk in and took part in the shenanigans.  The police should not be defunded but they should definitely be purged from racism.  There should be a psychological test given to every student in law enforcement that weeds out racism.  It is easy to test for and you can't hide your inner self if the right questions are asked.  But you need to want to remove it from police enforcement.
Phil, I wish you would study how a gangster family comes to power, how it retains power and how difficult it is to prosecute gangsters for all the crimes they commit.  It becomes public knowledge that the gangster is guilty but they become untouchable to hold them accountable.  Then I would like you to study the life of DJT.  How he grew up, what he has said, what he has done.  The actions of a person defines the individual not their words.
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: Ben Framed on January 16, 2021, 12:14:00 pm

>Phil, I did not quote Jim.  Please reread the post.

Per your request I did reread. My apologies Brian. Per race in 149 you were referring to Mr Bush, not Jim. I will edit my reply 151, removing Jim and adding Mr Bush. ie



Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: MikeyN.C. on January 16, 2021, 04:46:24 pm
Gww, I don't understand why u can't understand what I said ????? Who is responsible for capital security????
Goggle it for your self. Is it speaker of house??? And sergeant of arms ? 
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: gww on January 16, 2021, 05:06:09 pm
Mikey
It is overseen by the four members of the Capitol Police Board, with Congressional oversight.
But I still do not understand the point you are trying to get at.
Cheers
gww
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: iddee on January 16, 2021, 06:45:48 pm
gww, his point is pee-lousy is in charge of security of the capital and she refused additional security on the 6th, probably to ensure she had something to complain about. After all, word is leaking out that the raid was pre-planned, Maybe she was involved. I wouldn't put it past her.
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: gww on January 16, 2021, 06:58:55 pm
iddee
If that is the case.  It would be one more reason to impeach trump as incompetent if he can be outsmarted that easily. :wink:  I can see it now, trump invites all his people there on the 6th and incites them so he can look stupid.  He forgot to tell his supporters to protect the capital from nancy.
Cheers
gww
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: iddee on January 16, 2021, 07:16:09 pm
Wrong again. He was asking for a peaceful march, not knowing she had already planned a riot. He offered additional security and she turned it down. She knew what she had planned and didn't want security messing it up.
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: MikeyN.C. on January 16, 2021, 07:28:11 pm
Boss man are you serious
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: MikeyN.C. on January 16, 2021, 07:35:46 pm
I was referring to gww
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: gww on January 16, 2021, 08:02:35 pm
Iddee
If trump could not get enough people/supporters to show up to stop the riot and thwart Nancy's plan than he does not deserve to be president.
You thinking is flawed just like it is on the rest of it.  You get beliefs with no proof and I get video. and text with proof.  We know who's rally it was and we know who is getting arrested.

With a good imagination and a willingness to say anything a guy might sound good to those with hope that want to believe but the problem of facts get in the way when it is really looked at.  Of course there will always be a few who do not care about facts and a few who only go to one spot for info and don't hear the facts but it will never add up to a majority of people and that is why trump lost and will keep losing. 

The worst part about all of it is that the dreamers or Kool-Aid drinkers or what ever they are called are going to push so hard on something that is going to lose is that the backlash will be justified and it will cause the things they fear cause it will create so much fear on the other side.  They are making the case for gun control and more restrictions every time they act stupid and we will all suffer.  Instead of some of these things being a political foot ball that never goes anywhere it will become self defense and get done.  All those that believe in the election was stolen lie who are going to lose period are going to take everyone down with the ship.

Even worse is that trump is now damaged goods with a lot of support but never enough to ever win again and if he tries, he will just destroy the chance of somebody else who might give more protection to the right then getting nobody which is where this is going.

The cops who got beat with blue lives matter and American flags that are making statements now are sure not laying the problem at nancy's feet.  I am pretty sure the person who lowered the american flag and then raised a trump flag in its place was not a nancy supporter.
Cheers
gww

Mikey
I am not serious on my satire to iddee but am serious that it was trump supporters that stormed the capitol and killed the cop and that is what is important and all the conspiracy crap trying to make that ok is just bull.
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: iddee on January 16, 2021, 09:11:08 pm
No, gww, the truth is, they have done just what they predicted back in the 60's. They said they were going to conquer the USA without firing a shot. Well, they did it without firing an official shot, but they got the job done. NO, I'm not dreaming. I see clearly the USA is gone. It was quietly stolen in the night while too few were watching.
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: gww on January 17, 2021, 12:58:17 am
Iddee
I remember henry Kissinger also making a prediction around that time that sorta came true.
He took the position that we had to bring our wages down and the wages in the rest of the world up.  I do not see how that has really worked out that well.
Cheers
gww

Ps There is no doubt that for whatever the reason, it was a security failure.  However, it was still an attack on the capitol by trump supporters.  In the end, it may have worked out for the best cause it could have been so much worse if two big forces started getting the killing really going on.  This is not to say no dead would not have been even better.  I do not even really want a bunch of trump rioters shot down cause I believe with time some will come to their senses and be the great people they can be.  Crowds and strong feelings can get out of hand and make people do things they regret.
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: Acebird on January 17, 2021, 09:24:08 am
He was asking for a peaceful march, not knowing she had already planned a riot. He offered additional security and she turned it down.

Wally he was speaking english.  Do you need a dictionary?  Some republicans broke away from the Trump hold and voted to impeach him.  Are those republicans so illiterate that they don't understand english?  All the Trump followers have learned the Trump defense.  Take the truth and claim the opposite.  I wish you were not under that spell.  I wish you could observe evidence and arrive at a logical conclusion.  Unfortunately that is not the case for you and all of Trump's followers.
I warned you gww.  It doesn't matter what evidence you put forth or what proof you show.  It will be twisted to the opposite meaning of reality.
This is the reason I do not waste my time trying to provide proof to Trump supporters.  They do not accept reality no more than Trump does.  It is all about the fight.  Which even that is over but his followers cannot accept it.  I think Trump has not only blown his chances for 2024 I think he has tainted any chance of his kids being nominated for future elections.
In some respects it is good to be a fighter but it is better to be a winner.  Trump has always been a loser in the end.  He is not his father.
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: gww on January 17, 2021, 11:12:50 am
Ace
If I didn't post, others that read this crap might think stuff is true when it is not.
The old don't believe what you see but believe what trump tells you syndrome.
Cheers
gww
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: iddee on January 18, 2021, 07:14:33 am
And since you and Ace do post, along with your fellow libs, the truth is well hidden.

https://www.oann.com/antifa-supporter-arrested-for-storming-capitol/
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: Acebird on January 18, 2021, 08:40:44 am
Ace
If I didn't post, others that read this crap might think stuff is true when it is not.
The point is what they truly believe is an unknown.  Regardless of what you post they will parrot the crap as gospel.
I suspect that Kathy may be the only conservative on beemaster that has come to grips with the history of the Trump legacy.  The first real threat to American democracy did not come from Iran but from home grown white people.  I don't think she is going to try to spin it another way.
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: Acebird on January 18, 2021, 08:49:59 am
And since you and Ace do post, along with your fellow libs, the truth is well hidden.

https://www.oann.com/antifa-supporter-arrested-for-storming-capitol/
Wally you are missing the whole point.  I don't care who all the individuals are.  They will come to justice on an individual basis.  The point is Trump encouraged this attack, knew of it before hand and that suggest that he was part of the planning and gave his blessings for it.  This is treason not from a nobody but certainly from a wacko.
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: gww on January 18, 2021, 09:04:05 am
Iddee
I will say that trump finally made us as close to Venezuela as could be by getting a fight inside our capitol.  Now you no longer have to live in fear of where we heading cause we have video.  Our video is better than your video. :smile:
Cheers
gww
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: iddee on January 18, 2021, 09:16:03 am
Total lie. He encouraged a peaceful rally and the left blew it into a riotous siege just so you sheeple could blame Trump.
Title: Re: Why Trump should not be reelected
Post by: sawdstmakr on January 19, 2021, 02:54:38 pm
Too many direct attacks. I deleted the last two and I?m locking this post.
Jim Altmiller