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MEMBER & GUEST INTERACTION SECTION => THE COFFEE HOUSE ((( SOCIAL - ROOM ))) => Topic started by: Ben Framed on January 18, 2020, 09:55:44 am

Title: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: Ben Framed on January 18, 2020, 09:55:44 am
https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/health-51148303
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: sawdstmakr on January 19, 2020, 09:03:16 am
Good information. Thanks for the heads up.
Jim Altmiller
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: Kathyp on January 21, 2020, 08:10:48 pm
It's been found in the US now in WA state.

Most of the time these things are not as bad as the press would like us to believe, but you never know how a virus will mutate once it hits population so it's worth keeping an eye on. 
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: beesNme on January 22, 2020, 06:52:13 pm
It's scary to think how something so small can do so much damage. And seems every year there is a new strain. Zika virus is bad one as well
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: Acebird on January 23, 2020, 09:08:33 am
The scare is when viruses can effectively transmit from person to person.  Viruses that transmit from animal to human don't pose a big problem (normally) because most animals don't fly.  The exception is this nonsense therapy pets that are allowed on planes.
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: Kathyp on January 23, 2020, 11:56:15 am
Been romping around in news reports on this.  There are a few things that jumped out at me.

This thing has spread much farther and has impacted more people in China than they are reporting.  They have expanded quarantine areas, and clinics and hospitals are already overwhelmed.  It is well out of the country.  By now, there are probably exposed people all over the world so we'll get a good idea of how easily it is spread.

It is true that people panic and want to be seen for any kind of sniffle if there is an outbreak of something, but flooding health care is not the reaction if what is going around is the standard flu or even something like measles. 
This is an information controlled society, yet the people appear to believe that whatever is happening is serious enough to require care. 

I found one report that claims the incubation period is/appears to be, around 14 days.  Making the reasonable assumption that a person would be contagious for a period of time before symptoms, this horse is way out of the barn already.  Checking for fever at airports is not going to help.

Keep track of this. It will be interesting to see how it develops and how our western countries react.
 And I know I have said this before, but no matter what is going on, every one of us should have enough stuff stored to hunker down for at least a couple of weeks.  By the time you know you need to get ready, it is too late. 

Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: CoolBees on January 23, 2020, 02:13:45 pm
... every one of us should have enough stuff stored to hunker down for at least a couple of weeks.  By the time you know you need to get ready, it is too late.

This is always good advice - often forgotten good advice.
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: jvalentour on January 23, 2020, 05:30:06 pm
In 2017 the Journal Nature reported that a high level research lab testing SARS is located in Wuhan.
The Journal reports China has a spotty record of containing virus.

See link:  https://www.nature.com/news/inside-the-chinese-lab-poised-to-study-world-s-most-dangerous-pathogens-1.21487

With the lock down of entire cities, it gives cause to pay attention at least.
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: Kathyp on January 23, 2020, 06:46:54 pm
Quote
With the lock down of entire cities, it gives cause to pay attention at least.

I am not fond of that source, but China has a bad history of not being honest until things are so bad they can't hide it. 

As with other places, like Africa, the living conditions and the dietary choices lend themselves to the development and spread of these kinds of diseases.  It can happen anywhere, but they have pretty much the perfect conditions.

Not much to do about it except to realize that they are not honest and read reports with that in mind.
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: Kathyp on January 30, 2020, 11:34:44 am
Thought I'd drop this as an update.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/VBxZ1XIYmGc" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: Acebird on January 31, 2020, 10:01:13 am
If you don't travel it is not much of a problem.  It spread so fast in China because of their new year celebrations.  China has a militant mind set.  They are good in wars but not good as saving people.  What bothers me is we have become more militant.
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: Kathyp on January 31, 2020, 12:03:48 pm
Quote
What bothers me is we have become more militant.
  IDK, we were born in war   :wink:

A bigger problem for China and one touched on in this video, is that they have a rigid top-down government.  It doesn't allow for much thinking out of the box, or quick action...and God forbid a local governor try to get the word out that something really bad is happening.

We are becoming more top-down and that bothers me.  I don't think we are quite to the China model yet though. 

Everything with this will depend on mutations and easy of person to person spread. We do have protocols to deal with this kind of thing, but pandemic protocols will make everyone very unhappy so I hope we don't get there.

Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: jvalentour on February 01, 2020, 10:46:10 am
In an interesting twist, Indian researchers find artifacts of HIV in the Wuhan virus.
Link attached:  https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.01.30.927871v1.full.pdf
The paper is not peer reviewed but I suppose it will be quickly.
Long read.
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: Ben Framed on February 01, 2020, 04:10:31 pm
Even another twist, I heard a news report that the Gates family are co-patent holders on this disease. Wish I had copied and pasted here. Has anyone else heard of this?



.
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: Milo on February 01, 2020, 07:01:08 pm
In an interesting twist

RNA viruses mutate rapidly which allows especially fast evolution. When two viruses occupy the same cell they can swap genetic material and form new (or evolved) viruses.

The question I would have for this paper is are they implying that it was human intervention (cooked up in a lab - Wuhan Institute of Virology? Currently no basis whatsoever for this, just guff) or are they saying that it was a Group V & Group VI RNA virus merger?

By the way coronavirus are enveloped and are more susceptible to microbicides than non-enveloped viruses, but it doesn?t mean we should drink bleach like some of the crazies are promoting. It just means wipe down surfaces with sodium hypochlorite or quaternary ammonium products.

Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: Kathyp on February 06, 2020, 12:16:41 pm
This is the kind of stuff I look for. 

Watching for the activation of pandemic protocols will tell us more than watching the news.

https://www.businessinsider.com/pentagon-approves-more-military-bases-for-wuhan-coronavirus-quarantine-efforts-2020-2
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: Ben Framed on February 06, 2020, 12:33:30 pm
As Jim said in post 1 good information, thanks for the heads up

And update Kathy 
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: jvalentour on February 06, 2020, 12:42:02 pm
Kathyp, I don't remember quarantine centers for travelers during the SARS and bird flu scares.  I don't remember countries closing their borders with China either, but I'm much older now.   Still, there doesn't seem to be much alarm in my area.  Type A flu is causing schools to close here.

The material resembling HIV in the coronavirus was said to be very common and not unique to HIV.  So until the paper is reviewed or someone else comes up with the same results, there is no proof it's manufactured by the Chinese (or Canadians).

As best as I can tell, mutations of the virus are the biggest concern, in it's current form it is nothing unusual.  But state actors are behaving unusually cautious.
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: Kathyp on February 06, 2020, 02:22:18 pm
Quote
As best as I can tell, mutations of the virus are the biggest concern, in it's current form it is nothing unusual.  But state actors are behaving unusually cautious.

It is hard to get accurate info out of China.  It's hard to apply what we do know to other places because the living conditions are so different. 
China is in better shape now than it was with the SARS outbreak, so the fact that they are having the infection and mortality rate they appear to be experiencing is concerning.  This also appears to spread more easily and than SARS or MERS.

I suspect that one of the reasons governments are jumping on this is that they learned a lot from the SARS outbreak.  Better to be overly cautious than miss the window to contain a thing.  Watching what governments do is helpful in predicting where this is going, but not worth a panic yet.

The other thing to watch is the infection rate on things like the cruise ship being held in Japan.  You can make some socio-economic assumptions about cruise ship passengers that we can't make about people in Wohan. 

 
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: Ben Framed on February 06, 2020, 10:28:35 pm
Kathy, I have seen videos there of people simply falling out shaking violently, in the streets, in offices, and hospitals etc. I do not know if these are real or even accurate. Have you seen similar?
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: Ben Framed on February 10, 2020, 11:23:04 pm
Cancelled Statement 😊
.
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: jvalentour on February 11, 2020, 09:55:03 am
Yes, there will be a world wide ripple effect from the virus.  China is shutting down manufacturing in several areas due to the quarantine.  South Korea has already stopped production of some autos due to a shortage of Chinese parts.  Supply of rare earth materials may be an issue very soon.
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: Kathyp on February 11, 2020, 11:39:01 am
Quote
Kathy, I have seen videos there of people simply falling out shaking violently, in the streets, in offices, and hospitals etc. I do not know if these are real or even accurate. Have you seen similar?

I have, but nothing like that from outside China.  We can't verify what's coming from inside.

Quote
Yes, there will be a world wide ripple effect from the virus.  China is shutting down manufacturing in several areas due to the quarantine.  South Korea has already stopped production of some autos due to a shortage of Chinese parts.  Supply of rare earth materials may be an issue very soon.

At this moment I think any trade issues will be a blip.  If this gets into other populations that are important to trade, and does as it has done in China, it could be a problem.  India, Vietnam, etc. These are countries with dense populations and a questionable ability to deal with a massive outbreak. 
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: jvalentour on February 11, 2020, 04:23:48 pm
I was implying that manufacturing dependent on Chinese parts will be affected. 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/04/business/hyundai-south-korea-coronavirus.html

https://moneymaven.io/mishtalk/economics/massive-manufacturing-disruptions-due-to-coronavirus-include-iphone-iEpfQqltKEGv1ZFvL5YtFA

https://finance.townhall.com/columnists/mikeshedlock/2020/02/10/massive-manufacturing-disruptions-due-to-coronavirus-include-iphone-n2561070

Time to short Hyundai if you're an investor, maybe Apple.
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: iddee on February 11, 2020, 06:11:46 pm
I just ordered Apple rechargeable batteries.Most sites are sold out and have no expected date to restock.
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: Kathyp on February 11, 2020, 07:38:34 pm
I hear Apple is moving a bunch of its stuff to Vietnam. 
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: Milo on February 15, 2020, 12:44:57 pm
The move by apple to Vietnam was reported in June last year and was reported as a work around to the tariffs

More importantly the paper that was pre-released has been withdrawn by the authors because the scientific community called it out as junk.

Indian researchers find artifacts of HIV in the Wuhan virus
The paper is not peer reviewed but I suppose it will be quickly.


https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.01.30.927871v2



Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: salvo on February 15, 2020, 06:57:41 pm
Hi Folks,

I suppose it's time to call in the Marines!

https://www.dailywire.com/news/read-it-u-s-military-issues-coronavirus-containment-plan-orders


Sal
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: Kathyp on February 16, 2020, 12:10:38 am
Quote
I suppose it's time to call in the Marines!

Pandemic plans exist along with plans for other disasters.  The military has its own issues because of deployments.  I don't think we are going to get that far in the US, but it is possible that the military will have to implement some of its plans, especially in other countries. 

Everything depends on how this virus behaves going forward.  Right now it appears to be fairly highly contagious, but not particularly deadly.  A high contagion rate with a lot of quarantines and hospitalizations is disruptive, but if the recovery rate continues to be high, that's a short term problem.  If it mutates and becomes more serious, or if people panic and overwhelm and/or abandon the system, that's when things get fun. 

Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: Ben Framed on February 17, 2020, 01:33:26 pm
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/02/17/health/evacuated-passengers-test-positive-coronavirus/index.html
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: Kathyp on February 17, 2020, 03:24:35 pm
Quote
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/02/17/health/evacuated-passengers-test-positive-coronavirus/index.html

This might be an issue.  There seem to be a lot of positives with the new test and the patients are asymptomatic.  They have not nailed down the point at which a positive person is able to spread the virus.  Even more of a problem comes if patients never become symptomatic and are still able to spread the disease. In that case, there is no contact tracing until it is way too late to corral all the contacts. 
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: Kathyp on February 17, 2020, 03:27:36 pm
If any of you guys follow Michael Yon on FB or his site he's doing good updates from Thailand and other places in that area.  Those countries are worth watching because a lot of people from China escaped and went to Thailand, Singapore, etc. before the gates in China slammed shut. 

We can get a good indicator of spread from what's happening in those other countries. 
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: jvalentour on March 12, 2020, 06:27:17 pm
Ohio has closed all K-12 schools, universities and colleges until 4/1/2020.
Guess there might be something to it.
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: Kathyp on March 12, 2020, 06:39:24 pm
Quote
Ohio has closed all K-12 schools, universities and colleges until 4/1/2020.
Guess there might be something to it.

I get it, you have to do something or be accused of not doing something.  My fear is that this is like hyping a hurricane that comes to nothing.  When we DO have a really serious pandemic people will not pay attention if this one has caused over-reaction. 

I know this can get serious.  I know it can overwhelm the system.  Even so, I am kind of at a loss as to why this is causing the panic it is when we have millions sick and in the hospital, not to mention dying, every year from the flu. 

Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: van from Arkansas on March 12, 2020, 07:31:20 pm
Ms. Kathy, hello and greetings.  Lady, you make a good point as to confusion of corona  as applied to conventional flu virus.  What is the big deal, one may ask?

Corona is a small RNA virus, very different from the typical flu virus.  What so different one may ask?

1.  Extremely fast rate for Mutations
2.  Corona jumped species barrier.
3.  Carrier virion.  Virion is singular for plural virus.

1.  On the first issue, mutating virus leaves a big UNKNOWN.  The mutations are my biggest concern as the possibilities seam endless:  drug resistance conferred to bacteria, cancer, tumors, nerve  damage, organ damage, on and on and on.

2.  Most of the time, when a pathogen jumps the species barrier the results are very serious.  Take herpes simplex virus of monkeys for example: basically harmless to monkeys, but deadly, like 100% fatality upon transfer to humans.  A main concern for biological warfare.  The monkey herpes virus leaves no human survivors.  This is an extreme example of a disease organism that makes a species jump.  Mad Cow Disease,  HIV other examples: HIV harmless to most apes yet killed millions of humans after the species jump to humans was made.  So microbiologist such as I get very nervous when an organism makes a species jump.

3.  Some of my research in the past was to determine how disease causing organisms acquired antibiotic resistance: staph, strep and such.  The end result of my research was always the same: virus transferred the genes needed for antibiotic resistance to bacteria.  In every single case I studied, a virus was the carrier.  M2096, a strain of the bacteria that causes strep throat that acquired the ability to bind to kidney cells causing kidney failure and subsequent death.  Yea, a sore throat, a simple sore throat with the aid of a virus acquired the ability to destroy kidney cells.  M2096 was kind of a personal issue with me, as I was the guy to crack the code on this one.  To much boring detail to go into the specifics, just wanted to make a point.

Ms. Kathy, I understand your question:  WHAT IS ALL THE FUSS ABOUT?  The fuss is about the unknown possibilities that can spiral out of control very quickly.  What are the possibilities; I know of no way to justify a number in percentage.  I am not losing any sleep.  To the contrary: The media and politicians never miss a good opportunity for creating chaos.  Chaos means money to those on TV.

Van
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: Kathyp on March 12, 2020, 07:58:30 pm
Quote
Ms. Kathy, I understand your question:  WHAT IS ALL THE FUSS ABOUT?  The fuss is about the unknown possibilities that can spiral out of control very quickly

Yes, and I understand that.  I understand that the more people infected the more chance for mutation and there is some evidence that this one has already mutated at least once.  I understand the fear when there is no treatment and no preventative.  I understand that the system can be overwhelmed by a lot of sick people.

I also understand that people expect the government to DO SOMETHING. 

Not much to be done about it now.  The horse is out of the barn.

  My concern is that if this remains as it is, people are going to look back on this and be angry by a real or perceived over-reaction.  The result will be the same as the overblown storm predictions.  When the next big thing comes around, people will ignore recommendations. 

My amazement is that we had H1N1 infect millions, hospitalize many thousands and 12 thousand + died in this country. People don't even remember it.  They don't remember it because even though it was a deadly pandemic, there was not this kind of hyp by the press and panic by the public and government. 

I know there is not a happy middle ground at this point, but I fear the long term fallout is going to be far worse than the virus. 
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: Ralphee on March 12, 2020, 08:02:01 pm
As an Australian i just want to apologize
I know we didn't start the panic buying (pretty sure it started from a joke on an American show??? But dont quote me on that), but the panic buying of toilet paper is absolutely ridiculous
You may laugh and say "its only toilet paper people - calm down" but think of the elderly who can only go shopping once a week or the disabled who cant get to go to every supermarket in town at the time they open to try and get some - buy it on eBay you say? Not all the elderly are that tech savvy!
Yes, whole towns are selling out of toilet paper and when they do stock the shelves, its all gone in minutes (no seriously - there is video of a supermarket selling out full shelves in under 90 seconds)
We have even had people fighting over it! The best (worst??) was the case that required the police to get involved, the guy then attacks the police and gets tasered!
Hopefully level heads will prevail soon, supermarkets are limiting customers to one pack of toilet paper at a time to try and slow it down
Oh yeah, hand sanitizer is sold out, as is pasta, long life milk, and some tinned foods - again, no need for this
Hopefully this craze hasn't carried over to where you are as well
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: Kathyp on March 12, 2020, 08:40:24 pm
Oh, it's here.  Costco sells huge packs of TP and people are buying tons of it.  My son is a manager in a grocery store and they are sold out as soon as they stock the shelves with hand sanitizer and TP.

I don't get it.  There are things you can use other than TP, but you can't substitute TP for food.  You'd think the dried good would sell out.  Beans, rice, soup mix, etc. along with water storage containers.  But no...Gotta have enough TP to last to the second coming.   :cheesy:

Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: iddee on March 12, 2020, 09:21:14 pm
It's simple.The ones buying it know how full of Crap they are, and know they are going to need it.   :wink: :cheesy:
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: van from Arkansas on March 12, 2020, 10:35:25 pm
I like the humor.

Seriously, wait until a person walks into a public restroom, one item will be missing, TP.
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: Ralphee on March 13, 2020, 12:10:45 am
There are rumors is Aus that stores are refusing to let people return toilet paper that they have hoarded. If you wasted all your money buying toilet paper - and stopping others from getting any by doing this - then you can keep it! They are restocking shelves pretty quickly (some stores are keeping stock on the shelves) but many are still selling out
Hopefully they concentrate on getting the hand sanitizer stocks up, and keeping them high - this will help prevent the spread better than most anything else
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: jvalentour on March 13, 2020, 01:35:25 am
Went to Sams tonight to stock up, just in case.....
There was no fresh meat, no frozen meat, no canned food except 1 gallon size.  Fresh vege's were low.
Understand, the huge meat coolers for fresh beef, chicken, pork, fish were empty....
No paper supplies whatsoever...
I live in a relatively middle class neighborhood.  People are planning for the worst. 
You can say what you want, this is what is happening. 
KP, I usually agree with you.  Not so much today.
We have three days of fresh food to prepare in our frig.  If the stores don't restock, we start eating frozen meat and canned food (which is ok). 
I own a daycare. 
We can't get nitrile gloves, purile hand cleaner, anti-bac soap, snack food, and toilet paper.  This is real.  It might be only temporary but it's happening.

As of this writing, there are FIVE WuhanVirus confirmed in Ohio.  All in the Yankee part, (North).
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: Milo on March 13, 2020, 09:40:21 am
Seriously, wait until a person walks into a public restroom, one item will be missing, TP.

Water utilities in Oz are putting reminders out to the public not to flush Wet wipes (even the ?flushable? ones are not flushable!) and other items like newsprint

There is going to be so much raw sewage flowing across the ground with pump station and line blockages if people flush that rubbish because of a lack of toilet paper

Flat ground is fine, the lines surcharge and pans gurgle before things overflow. Hills are different, sewers are shallow and as soon as a line blockage occurs the next maintenance shaft upstream overflows with raw sewage.
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: Kathyp on March 13, 2020, 12:27:11 pm
Quote
KP, I usually agree with you.  Not so much today.

I am not sure which bit you disagree with, but that's OK   :grin:

I keep at least 30 days of dried goods and supplies in my house.  I started doing that when I started doing disaster relief and saw how unprepared most people are.  Everyone expected that someone would be there with stuff for them.  When they didn't have immediate relief, they got angry and blamed everyone for their own lack of preparation. 

I guess I separate in my mind fact vs reaction. 

China let this thing spread around for a couple of months and those infected people traveled and spread it all over the world.  By the time it was out, it was to late go stop it.  I don't have a problem with a lot of what is being done by states, but it is fair to remember that when federal money flows, states do things to take advantage of that.  Some of the reactions are calculated.

We most definitely will have interruptions of the supply chain.  I hope we learn from this.  We can't count on having what we can't produce in our own country.  Disruption of services would be more catastrophic, but I don't see that happening. 

We have a national stockpile of stuff.  We have military mobile hospitals and they are full function, full service, and can be put up in less than a day anywhere they are needed.

The panic is more a function of our not being used to someone telling us we can't have or do stuff.  We are spoiled that way. 

Our state just canceled school for at least a couple of weeks.  I expect the internet to crash   :cheesy:

Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: The15thMember on March 13, 2020, 12:42:17 pm
My mom and sister ran to the store this morning and the only shortage we're having around here at the moment is toilet paper.  My sister was joking that for some reason people think the only thing they need to survive snow around here is bread, and the only thing they need to survive a pandemic is toilet paper!  :cheesy: 
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: CoolBees on March 13, 2020, 02:06:19 pm
I found where some of the TP is going. I was in a hotel in San Diego for the last few days. I happened to walk by the room where they keep the Maid supplies, when the door was open. They had MOUNTAINS of cases of TP. I hadn't really thought about it, but if a hotel, or a stadium, of a convention center ran out of TP - that wouldn't be good for them.

Just the same - I still don't see why they'd run out - unless all TP is made in China now  :grin: - or the trucks stopped running our freeways to restock the stores ...
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: Kathyp on March 13, 2020, 02:19:24 pm
Quote
unless all TP is made in China now

It's one of the few things we still make in the US.
Apparently TP hoarding is an international thing over the years.

http://theconversation.com/theres-plenty-of-toilet-paper-in-the-us-so-why-are-people-hoarding-it-133300
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: CoolBees on March 13, 2020, 02:52:15 pm
... I expect the internet to crash   :cheesy:

Now, that would cause a panic! ... (for most people).
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: Nock on March 15, 2020, 10:03:51 pm
No school here till the 13th. Way things are going I don?t expect them back this school year. 
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: FloridaGardener on March 16, 2020, 10:19:15 pm
[ You are not allowed to view attachments ]

And so it has come to this....
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: FloridaGardener on March 16, 2020, 10:30:21 pm
@KathyP
Oh and as far as stockpiling ...

https://www.history.com/news/government-cheese-dairy-farmers-reagan

This is the punch line:
"In 2018, the national cheese stockpile hit an all-time high, with 1.39 billion pounds of surplus cheese sitting in American warehouses."

Oh. No.
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: Kathyp on March 17, 2020, 11:23:04 am
Quote
Oh and as far as stockpiling ...

I don't qualify for the free cheese line anymore, but that Velveta stuff they used to pass out was not bad!  I figured they'd already spent my little bit of tax money on it, so I might as well get some back.   :grin:  My one foray into "free stuff".

I don't think we will have an issue with a lack of food in this country.  We produce more than we can eat.  Where we might have a problem is in distribution.  We can use things like the National Guard for transportation if we need to and if states cooperate  AND if the NG is not being used to enforce quarantine.  Hope it doesn't get to that.

On the economic + side, any kind of home food delivery business is booming.  I get the fruit and veggie box from Imperfect Foods and they are slammed with orders right now.  There are always bright spots no matter how bad things get!



Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: Ben Framed on March 17, 2020, 01:31:54 pm
[ You are not allowed to view attachments ]

And so it has come to this....

Now that is funny! 
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: Ben Framed on March 18, 2020, 11:21:55 am
Common sense, food for thought.

https://youtu.be/5W9vjsFQUUU
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: sawdstmakr on March 18, 2020, 03:10:15 pm
Good post Phillip. Thanks for posting it. It shows how much our media is against the US.
Jim Altmiller
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: Ben Framed on March 19, 2020, 07:07:23 pm
Todays statistics update and facts. 

https://youtu.be/dT6mHi_8V5E
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: Kathyp on March 19, 2020, 07:57:11 pm
That was good.  I can't believe how much nutty info is out there. 
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: Ben Framed on March 19, 2020, 11:44:07 pm

>That was good. I can't believe how much nutty info is out there.


Good point Kathy. From the first reports I was hearing when this first started, millions would be dead in China alone by now. Look closely at the numbers on the chart.  (If the chart is accurate), and I tend to think it is.

Hum...........  Makes me wonder, "are we being deceived"? And if so by whom?  Hum........
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: Ben Framed on March 19, 2020, 11:53:47 pm
>"Last month, the national cheese stockpile hit an all-time high, with 1.39 billion pounds of surplus cheese sitting in American warehouses".

Interesting article Kathy, Thank you for posting.
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: iddee on March 20, 2020, 06:44:33 am
""Hum...........  Makes me wonder, "are we being deceived"? And if so by whom?  Hum........""

By every politician in Washington and the 50 capital cities, that's who.
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: Ben Framed on March 20, 2020, 08:29:45 am
>Hum...........  Makes me wonder, "are we being deceived"? And if so by whom?  Hum........

>By every politician in Washington and the 50 capital cities, that's who.

Yes, from what I have seen and heard this morning, I believe you may be close to bring correct. I am not liking what I am seeing and hearing, especially form Lindsey Graham this morning.   
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: iddee on March 20, 2020, 08:33:41 am
Link, please. I haven't found anything from him.
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: Ben Framed on March 20, 2020, 08:35:28 am
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uioPHTwaHhk
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: iddee on March 20, 2020, 08:44:13 am
Doesn't help. You know I only read, not hear.
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: Ben Framed on March 20, 2020, 08:47:18 am
Doesn't help. You know I only read, not hear.

Click on cc for the hearing impaired. You can read alongside the bottom of your computer screen as the short video goes along
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: CoolBees on March 20, 2020, 11:54:33 am
Phillip - the video doesn't load for me.
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: sawdstmakr on March 21, 2020, 12:54:01 am
Same here.
It looks like it is being blocked.
Jim Altmiller
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: salvo on March 22, 2020, 10:05:32 am
Hi Folks,

How about some good news? Copied from: Amani Friend

-China has closed down its last coronavirus hospital. Not enough new cases to support them.

- Doctors in India have been successful in treating Coronavirus. Combination of drugs used: Lopinavir, Retonovir, Oseltamivir along with Chlorphenamine. They are going to suggest same medicine, globally.

- Researchers of the Erasmus Medical Center claim to have found an antibody against coronavirus.

- A 103-year-old Chinese grandmother has made a full recovery from COVID-19 after being treated for 6 days in Wuhan, China.

- Apple reopens all 42 china stores,

- Cleveland Clinic developed a COVID-19 test that gives results in hours, not days.

- Good news from South Korea, where the number of new cases is declining.

- Italy is hit hard, experts say, only because they have the oldest population in Europe.

- Scientists in Israel likely to announce the development of a coronavirus vaccine.

- 3 Maryland coronavirus patients fully recovered; able to return to everyday life.

- A network of Canadian scientists are making excellent progress in Covid-19 research.

- A San Diego biotech company is developing a Covid-19 vaccine in collaboration with Duke University and National University of Singapore.

- Tulsa County's first positive COVID-19 case has recovered. This individual has had two negative tests, which is the indicator of recovery.

- All 7 patients who were getting treated for at Safdarjung hospital in New Delhi have recovered.

- Plasma from newly recovered patients from Covid -19 can treat others infected by Covid-19.

So it's not ALL bad news. Let's care for each other and stay focused on safety of those most vunerable.

Sal
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: Ben Framed on March 27, 2020, 09:57:24 am
Hum

https://youtu.be/DhUL3HkcaQ0
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: Ben Framed on April 09, 2020, 10:21:45 am
Hum, Is Dr Oz telling the truth? I hope this one is not taken down also lol.

https://youtu.be/cuuFfk0HkR4
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: van from Arkansas on April 09, 2020, 08:59:37 pm
That is insane.  ID, translate for you: A state governor outlawing a medication, chloroquine, FDA approved, that has been in use for decades in US, furthermore shutting down ongoing studies by Dr. Oz. MD.  I did not know a state governor could outlaw FED approve medication???  Is this even legal??

This has big pharma written all over it, just my 2 cents.  Again, good catch Mr. BenFramed, Phil.

Blessings
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: iddee on April 09, 2020, 09:20:15 pm
Full explanation in one word............................................DUMBOCRAT, AKA Democrat.
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: van from Arkansas on April 11, 2020, 05:51:15 pm
After review from epoch times regarding corvid19, there is a certainty that this virus was laboratory created as determined by dna sequencing and scientific reports from the Wuhan Institute of Virology, WIV, dating back to 2010.

Scientist at WIF published papers, available online, from 2010 to 2018 inwhich they reported insertion of ACE2 in Corvid19, recombination event lad driven.  ACE2 is the key that affords the ability of the Coronavirus to enter a human cell.  This paper by WIV was highly condemned by world scientists as most dangerous creation and the virus should be destroyed.

Speculation is: number one patient of cirvid19 was a young microbiologist that worked at WIV.  All information pertaining to this microbiologist has been removed from public documents by Chinese authorities.

Two subjects for certain facts:
1.  Corvid19 is an engineered virus.  Impossible natural spontaneous creation, just to perfect: perfect sequence of ACE2 and perfect sequence of glycoprotein 40 from HIV, yes AIDS; combined into Corvid19.
2.  Corvid19 is here to stay.

Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: iddee on April 11, 2020, 06:03:32 pm
""Two subjects for certain facts:""

And one uneducated opinion from me.

It traveled too far and too fast to not have been planned and carried purposely by many people and released into many countries as an act of war.
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: Ben Framed on April 12, 2020, 12:59:55 am
""Two subjects for certain facts:""

And one uneducated opinion from me.

It traveled too far and too fast to not have been planned and carried purposely by many people and released into many countries as an act of war.

It seems far fetched but, in actual reality you and van could both be right. I realize you can't hear this Iddee, but hopefully you can CC and read it. Are the circumstances explained in the video really possible? Are there really humans in this world which are really this sinister? As you iddee, I am no expert either.

https://youtu.be/RQ3Bdi0FZeM
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: cidersabuzzin on April 12, 2020, 05:50:01 pm
""Two subjects for certain facts:""

And one uneducated opinion from me.

It traveled too far and too fast to not have been planned and carried purposely by many people and released into many countries as an act of war.

It seems far fetched but, in actual reality you and van could both be right. I realize you can't hear this Iddee, but hopefully you can CC and read it. Are the circumstances explained in the video really possible? Are there really humans in this world which are really this sinister? As you iddee, I am no expert either.

https://youtu.be/RQ3Bdi0FZeM
Is it always someone else's fault? I could start a rumour that the last flu epidemic was originated in Switzerland, I think not!
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: iddee on April 12, 2020, 06:09:41 pm
Maybe the Spanish flu started in England, but didn't get a foothold until it got to Spain. I don't know. I wasn't there. :rolleyes: :cheesy:
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: Kathyp on April 12, 2020, 07:05:27 pm
I don't have time to go back through all of this but I really can't take another conspiracy theory from either side.  We travel.  We take bugs wtih it.  We spread them. 

Cuomo did not outlaw chloroquine.  In fact, the state order far more of it than they'll ever use.  He did restrict it to prescription only and left it to doctors.  I heard, but have not verified that he said not to use it for suspected cases and save it for the sick. 
Not a fan of the guy, but not going to blame him for what he did not do. 

I also get that Gates is a great target, but the stuff going around about him and things he's supposedly up to are easy to research and get accurate info.  Most of it is crap.

We do ourselves no favors when we start sounding as nuts and the leftists. 

There are a number of new studies of the virus out.  They specifically say that it does not appear to be engineered, but it has mutated, probably a number of times.  Also that it has been circulating much earlier than we thought.  Probably at least since November.   
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: cidersabuzzin on April 12, 2020, 08:02:53 pm
I don't have time to go back through all of this but I really can't take another conspiracy theory from either side.  We travel.  We take bugs wtih it.  We spread them. 

Cuomo did not outlaw chloroquine.  In fact, the state order far more of it than they'll ever use.  He did restrict it to prescription only and left it to doctors.  I heard, but have not verified that he said not to use it for suspected cases and save it for the sick. 
Not a fan of the guy, but not going to blame him for what he did not do. 

I also get that Gates is a great target, but the stuff going around about him and things he's supposedly up to are easy to research and get accurate info.  Most of it is crap.

We do ourselves no favors when we start sounding as nuts and the leftists. 

There are a number of new studies of the virus out.  They specifically say that it does not appear to be engineered, but it has mutated, probably a number of times.  Also that it has been circulating much earlier than we thought.  Probably at least since November.   
At last, a sensible explanation! Something we could do with more on here! :tongue:
Thanks Kathy :smile: 
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: Kathyp on April 12, 2020, 11:06:20 pm
Quote
I suppose you are meaning Iddee and myself

Lol.  I don't think you guys are idiots.  I confess to some crankiness right now.  I have been bombarded with Q crap from a FB "friend" and have had enough of conspiracy theories for the moment.

The problem with most of them is that there is a small amount of truth, and it's just enough to hook folks and send them down the rabbit hole...no research required.

Sorry.  I'll try to get into a better mood before going off again!
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: Ben Framed on April 12, 2020, 11:24:24 pm
My last post was taken down. I really thought it was a good response to our friend Ciders post which was directed toward Iddee and Myself calling us a name.  Nothing bad, or ugly from me. I see Ciders post is now edited by the moderator and my response is gone, which I had responded with a (:tongue:) as he had gave us, while saying back at you. Must be tough being a moderator. lol. Good job anyway Jim.

Phillip
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: Ben Framed on April 13, 2020, 12:12:23 am
 > Cuomo did not outlaw chloroquine.  In fact, the state order far more of it than they'll ever use.  He did restrict it to prescription only and left it to doctors.  I heard, but have not verified that he said not to use it for suspected cases and save it for the sick.
Not a fan of the guy, but not going to blame him for what he did not do.


What Dr Oz said is "The trial that I was helping with at my institution was shut down when the governor banned the use of hydroxychloroquine for prescription for out patients. I was trying to see if it could prevent early disease and replicate what has been done in China and in France. Unfortunately those trials have been held back."

No conspiracy theory here,  these are words right from the horses mouth. (Dr Oz).  See post 69. 
So what does this mean, does the governor want to wait until a person is almost dead before administering the drug?

Now the commentary done after the Lou Dobbs / Dr Oz interview could be zipped as far as I am concerned. I see no good in the raving. 

Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: iddee on April 13, 2020, 06:41:49 am
Don't worry, Kathy. My tough old skin would make an alligator's skin look as thin as cellophane in comparison. Go ahead and rant. You will get Jim and John on you long before you will bother me.

Phillip, Kenny Rogers said, You gotta know when to hold'em and know when to fold'em.   :cool: :cheesy:
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: Ben Framed on April 13, 2020, 11:10:55 am
>Phillip, Kenny Rogers said, You gotta know when to hold'em and know when to fold'em.   :cool: :cheesy:


That's true Iddee, and words to heed. Kathy is an excellent debater for sure! lol  Most of the time I agree with most of what she says. However, sometimes there are things that look and smell fishy that need a closer look.
 :shocked: :happy:
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: iddee on April 13, 2020, 01:57:47 pm
 
 
CDC Tweets ! ! !
From:
Sandy Sweikar
 
I was tired of hearing how Trump called the virus a hoax and ?did nothing? until March.... So I did research. Here?s the real timeline of what happened (all of this BEFORE we had even one death in the US) :
1/6 CDC issues travel advisory for Wuhan.
1/11 CDC tweets about corona related ?pneumonia outbreak in China?
1/14 WHO tweets that there is no evidence of human to human transmission.
1/17 CDC started doing health screenings at 3 airports of travelers from China.
1/21 first case in US for someone who traveled directly from Wuhan.
1/23 WHO again says no human to human transmission outside of China.
1/27 WHO raises alert level but is still saying China has it contained.
1/28 CDC states ? While CDC considers covid a serious situation and is taking preparedness measures, the immediate risk in the US is considered low.?
1/29 White House announces Coronavirus Task Force created Note - this is despite the WHO downplaying the threat!
1/31 Trump bans travel from China.
Media and multiple Democrats slam his decision calling it racist/xenophobic.
2/5 Trump acquitted (impeachment).

Chuck Schumer in a tweet continues to call Trumps? travel ban from China ?premature and racist"

2/7 White House?s Coronavirus Task Force gives press briefing.
2/9 White House Coronavirus Task Force meets with all governors regarding virus.
2/12 CDC waiting for approval from Chinese for CDC team to travel to China.
2/18 HHS announces partnership to develop vaccine.
2/21 Italy identifies its very first case in their country.
2/21 CDC tweets that it is working with States for preparedness.
2/24 Trump sent letter to Congress asking for $25B for virus effort.

Nancy Pelosi made a stop in Chinatown and encouraged people to ?please come and visit and enjoy Chinatown.?

2/25 there is still no reported community spread in the US!!! (Per CDC tweet.)
2/27 first community transmission in US.
2/27 Trump appoints Pence to coordinate efforts.
2/29 FIRST reported Covid19 death in US.
3/4 democrats slam the president for "not doing enough fast enough

It is helpful to look at the actual timeline. All of this happened BEFORE the 1st death in US.
I got most of this info from CDC tweets so anyone can look it up to check for accuracy. There were many more actions in between, I just took some highlights.

Trump announces there are 2 medicines that could really help battle this virus. Democrats and the media immediately attack him calling him irresponsible. Accusing him of giving people false hope and started to claim nothing has been approved to treat the virus.

Fast forward 6 days and NY governor Cuomo says exactly the same thing the president said. "Says there's two drugs they will start trying to treat this virus with". Suddenly the democrats and media all start saying this is what great leadership looks like because it was said by Cuomo. They have no shame, no credibility or any resemblance of integrity within them. All that matters to them it seems is to attack Trump and the conservatives.

The democrats fought to include millions of spending in the relief bill that had nothing to do with helping those who needed help immediately. Now in parts 2 and 3 of the relief bill they are trying to do more of the same all while pointing fingers at the president when he and the senate refuse to sign due to the strain on the economy with all the wasteful spending the democrats insist on adding.

Lets not forget, our economy was booming, the formerly jobless were employed and a huge trade deal with China had all happened in just a short period of time, then all at once, Saudi undercut the cost of oil per barrel, Russia began over producing oil, then the virus spread from China with the WHO covering for them all causing our economy to tank... sorry, I just do not believe in coincidence.
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: CoolBees on April 13, 2020, 02:47:25 pm
I have to agree with Kathy's "rant". Data coming out now, shows this virus was most likely in California (and causing some deaths), as early as august last year.

Several areas tested are showing "herd immunity" - (means that 60% percent of non-symptomatic people tested already have antibodies to the virus - which means they've already had it, and recovered).

The actual test data isn't showing a pandemic, nor is it matching the "projections" ... the data is showing that it's more of a normal strain of virus, blown completely out of control by media, industry, politicians, etc.

And on, and on. ...

At this point, all of it has the "smell" of a massive hoax - to my nose ...
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: Kathyp on April 13, 2020, 03:10:00 pm
Quote
I was trying to see if it could prevent early disease and replicate what has been done in China and in France.

He did do that.  He restricted the use.  I understand why doc OZ would be upset, but studies are being done and it is being used.  Now, IDK why he restricted the use, but other govs have also.  Supply?  Control?  something to look at later.
Quote
At this point, all of it has the "smell" of a massive hoax - to my nose ...

I don't think it is a hoax and it does fit the definition of a pandemic.  I also recognize that what we thought at the beginning has changed and what we thought a couple of weeks ago has changed.  It went from nothing to worry about, to full-on panic, to probably not as bad as the panic led us to believe.  I don't fault anyone for that.  We learn as we go.

Flattening the curve, social distancing, mitigation by closing things, was never about keeping people from getting sick and dying.  It was to keep people from getting sick and dying all at the same time and crashing the system. 
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: Ben Framed on April 13, 2020, 05:07:49 pm
> Flattening the curve, social distancing, mitigation by closing things, was never about keeping people from getting sick and dying.  It was to keep people from getting sick and dying all at the same time and crashing the system.

At least one country did not bite the hook and take the bait. lol At least when this news clip uas published. I do not know what has happened there since.

https://youtu.be/DhUL3HkcaQ0
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: Ben Framed on April 13, 2020, 05:10:48 pm
Reply #84
I appreciate the detail and very good information. Good post Iddee.
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: Ben Framed on April 13, 2020, 05:25:07 pm
The numbers were never there, even in China. I am not counting Cool out as being wrong. A Hoax? Maybe so Cool. The numbers were never there, even from the beginning.  I posted a video titled Especially for Van, Member, and Baabees showoing the actual numbers, weeks ago, a detailed chart from all over the world. Again, the numbers were never there. If you recall the fake news medias were claiming there would be millions dead in China in a matter of weeks. I am happy that this was not the true. I am happy the experts were wrong for the good of all. It is always good to be cautious, but even again, the numbers were never there.  A hoax, you decide. 
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: sawdstmakr on April 13, 2020, 07:27:40 pm
President Trump was just on TV going through most of the tweets Iddee listed and news reports put out by the fake news media. It was great.
Jim Altmiller
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: van from Arkansas on April 13, 2020, 07:42:28 pm
Kathy:  There are a number of new studies of the virus out.  They specifically say that it does not appear to be engineered, but it has mutated, probably a number of times.  Also that it has been circulating much earlier than we thought.  Probably at least since November.

Ms. Kathy, Bless you Lady.  I have studied the original corona virus, compared to the Corvid19 sequence.  Corvid19 has a perfect insertion of ACE2 and perfect insertion of glycoprotein from HIV: exact match.  Just not possible in nature.  But no need to take my word for it, Wuhan  Institute of Virology published scientific article they inserted ACE2.  They, Wuhan, were criticized  by world scientists.  The papers are online, no need to take my word for it.  Research ACE2 Wuhan virologist and read the paper for yourself 2018.  The Chinese published they inserted ACE2.  ACE2 is the molecular key to unlock the door to a human cell.  Without ACE2, Corvid19 would be harmless to humans.
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: Kathyp on April 13, 2020, 08:03:11 pm
Quote
I have studied the original corona virus, compared to the Corvid19 sequence.  Corvid19 has a perfect insertion of ACE2 and perfect insertion of glycoprotein from HIV: exact match.  Just not possible in nature.  But no need to take my word for it, Wuhan  Institute of Virology published scientific article they inserted ACE2.  They, Wuhan, were criticized  by world scientists.  The papers are online, no need to take my word for it.  Research ACE2 Wuhan virologist and read the paper for yourself 2018.  The Chinese published they inserted ACE2.  ACE2 is the molecular key to unlock the door to a human cell.  Without ACE2, Corvid19 would be harmless to humans.


I know the assertions are online along with HIV being a Russian weapon, and Vaccines being used to sterilize people.  If you have links to the actual research, I'd be happy to look at it.  You may be right, but I have read two reports from European research that do not agree with it being a manufactured virus.  Now, that's not the same as saying it did not come out of a lab.  It may well have escaped a lab.  They just did not find DNA evidence in their sequencing to show it was a manipulated virus. 

Quote
Ms. Kathy, Bless you Lady

Is that like "Bless your heart"?   :grin:

This is one that I read
https://jvi.asm.org/content/jvi/94/7/e00127-20.full.pdf

this is less relevant to our conversation
https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/JAHA.120.016219

I'll try to find the European paper that was tracking mutations.  Have it somewhere in my saved file.

Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: Skeggley on April 13, 2020, 08:07:39 pm

We do ourselves no favors when we start sounding as nuts and the leftists. 

No you don?t, nice to hear some reason.
Fact is it?s killing people and this is what we should be concentrating on, not pointing the finger.
Here in Aus we have closed all state and regional borders allowing only essential services. In the West, where I am, it never got out of control and we pretty much have it contained but the borders still remain shut. All cases were of course linked to international travel and the majority came from the US.
Our measures have been strict for sure, not something I?d imagine you would stand for over there, but they are working here but unfortunately it?s a pandemic so like it or not we?re all linked and until a cure for this is found, tested and administered your actions govern our actions. This is not a time for high horses, it?s a time for unity.

Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: Ben Framed on April 13, 2020, 08:46:26 pm
High horses have nothing to do with is Skeggley. No high horses here, we are all friends. Facts and numbers do have something to do with the opinions. The numbers do not match the hype or claims, and I hope they never do. I realize this is a peculiar subject with emotions running high on all equations. I am certainly not your enemy, nor are others here which question the situation. I hope we do not come across as arrogant, as this is not my intention nor do I believe it is of the others which have posted here. Critical thinking is my intention. I have great respect for each poster here.
Yes Sir I agree that there are folks dying from this awfulness. As you said, most of your cases came from America and that may be so? And our cases may have came from China? No matter where they came form they are here, and there in your country. Most folks these days traveling a great distance, do so by Airplane.Let me ask you, are your Airlines still carrying passengers in your country? I do not know if we are here? I confess, I have not checked to see. If this was as deadly as the officials say, NO ONE should be allowed to travel by plane. Folks all trapped together inside the small portals of a plane, breathing the same air. Just food for thought. Stay safe my friend.

Phillip
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: CoolBees on April 13, 2020, 09:21:07 pm
Well said by all parties: kathyp, phillip, Skeggley, van, etc.

I certainly hope the virus/pandemic doesn't turn out to be as bad as anyone sold it to be.

Preliminary data is showing that we may all have been "hoaxed" (my words). We need more data.

In the mean time: every source on planet earth has been trying to convince us that their "findings" are the right ones. Is it a weaponized virus? Some say yes. Are we being fed "false data" to calm people down? ... or to excite us? Maybe. Maybe both ... I dunno. ... I figure we'll have a pretty good idea of the truth in 3-4 years.

For me - I'll wait for the data ... since I can find a source [that swears it's the gospel] for every other possibility.
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: Skeggley on April 13, 2020, 09:45:44 pm
No mate as I said only essential travel is permitted. Yes planes still fly and trucks are still rolling cargo. Anyone moving between states, and regions within states are subjected to compulsory 2 week isolation.
For the record, here in Australia we have a population of 25 mil, confirmed cases at 6.4k with a death toll of just 61 (Still 61 too many.) well under the earlier projected total, all because of the early measures implemented by the government.
Social distancing, self isolation, crowd restrictions, non essential travel and other measures are working to contain the virus here to the detriment of many businesses but I think we all accept it as necessary. Sure conspiracy theories abound on social media which is of concern as some take theories as fact and this is causing small outbreaks here and there.
No dining in at restaurants, pubs and clubs all closed. Public parks and playgrounds closed. Gatherings of more than 2 banned. (Excluding family members)
Would you guys accept these measures?
Cruise ships have been our biggest virus importers.
At the moment we have just one enemy and until it is defeated, and it will be, we ALL need to work together.

Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: Ben Framed on April 13, 2020, 10:28:45 pm
Thanks for your countrys report Skaggley.

Phillip
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: Kathyp on April 13, 2020, 10:53:14 pm
Quote
Would you guys accept these measures?

We are although there are variations state to state.  We are a republic.

all but essential services are closed.  In my state that includes parks, state parks, hiking trails..

We will accept it up to a point, but as I said above, the goal never was to keep everyone well.  It was to keep the system from collapsing.  In particular, the medical system.

At some point, the balance between the economic damage being done and the potential for the virus to sicken or kill more people has to be weighed.
Using my left and right RB friends as a non-scientific barometer, I do not think people will tolerate this shutdown past the end of April.  I will say that my leftist friends are happier to comply as long as the government shovels out money.   :wink:  They don't seem to care where that money comes from.


Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: van from Arkansas on April 14, 2020, 09:53:03 am
[ You are not allowed to view attachments ]
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: van from Arkansas on April 14, 2020, 09:54:45 am
[ You are not allowed to view attachments ]
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: Milo on April 14, 2020, 10:08:05 am
  Corvid19 has a perfect insertion of ACE2 and perfect insertion of glycoprotein from HIV: exact match.

Sorry I don?t understand this,

Corvid19 [sic] is the disease, SARS-CoV-2 is the virus, which has the insertions?

And of relevance to the reference to ACE2 (from 2005)

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1287568/

Also the last paper doesn?t appear to support your statement
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: van from Arkansas on April 14, 2020, 10:11:16 am
Proof is in the pudding as the saying goes.  So I posted the articles from Wuhan.  Research google terms: Wuhan ACE2 insertions

Many articles by Wuhan Institute of Virology admitting they inserted ace2.
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: Milo on April 14, 2020, 10:17:04 am
Sorry I did and I?m not seeing your source? Can you post a link?

This is what I get for that exact search
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0820-9
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: Milo on April 14, 2020, 10:27:14 am
Proof is in the pudding as the saying goes.  So I posted the articles from Wuhan.  Research google terms: Wuhan ACE2 insertions

Many articles by Wuhan Institute of Virology admitting they inserted ace2.

Here is the paper https://jvi.asm.org/content/94/7/e00127-20 that you took a screen shot of.

On reading it I have a difference of option to you.



Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: van from Arkansas on April 14, 2020, 10:38:22 am
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3bXWGxhd7ic

The origin of Corvid19.
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: Milo on April 14, 2020, 10:41:32 am
Fluff and nonsense.

You cite articles, where are they?
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: Ben Framed on April 14, 2020, 10:59:26 am
Fluff and nonsense.

You cite articles, where are they?

Milo the video is 55 minutes long. You say Fluff and nonsense, three minutes after van posted it. Timely impossible. Unless you have already watched this report.
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: Kathyp on April 14, 2020, 11:08:04 am
Isn't that the same source I posted?  It does not support the idea of a lab modified virus.  In fact, the synopsis supports a bat origin for the virus.  It would not be the first from a bat.


And none of this is worth fighting over because it will all come out in the wash.  I was just pointing out that conspiracy theories and counterproductive. 
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: van from Arkansas on April 14, 2020, 11:23:29 am
""Two subjects for certain facts:""

And one uneducated opinion from me.

It traveled too far and too fast to not have been planned and carried purposely by many people and released into many countries as an act of war.

ID words are echoed in the video, same bottom line, same conclusion as ID.
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: Ben Framed on April 14, 2020, 11:29:40 am
I do not see any fighting on this side, we are are on the same team, ourselves and our cousins across the water, as far as I am concerned. we are all looking for true answers. I am still in the process of watching the Epoch Times News Report posted here by Van. It is very interesting.  I stopped at 12 minutes in to check back with my friends here. Now back to the News article. Let me add, I have total confidence in Mr Van with his expertise experience and a lifetime of knowledge gained of research, studying this sort of thing and background of hands on research. I do not know where or who we could ask for better advice or inside information, so to speak. It is my opinion that we are blessed to have such a friend here. Thank you Mr Van for being so bold as to try to enlighten your friends here.

Phillip
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: van from Arkansas on April 14, 2020, 11:36:07 am
Isn't that the same source I posted?  It does not support the idea of a lab modified virus.  In fact, the synopsis supports a bat origin for the virus.  It would not be the first from a bat.


And none of this is worth fighting over because it will all come out in the wash.  I was just pointing out that conspiracy theories and counterproductive.

Understand:  CHIMERA is the exact wording, synthesized virus, synthetic, novel virus, combined SAR-Covid paper published by Wuhan institute WITH INSERTION OF ACE2.  They created, Corvid19 as an experiment: they published, then warning by Pasteur Institute noting criticism of such paper, creation of synthetic virus, a chimera, with the strong warning: current world pandemic noted as possible outcome which is now happening.  The research papers are published by Wuhan institute of virology they combined the dna from bat SARS virus WITH bat CORONA virus and achieved a chimera with insertion of ACE2 creating corvid19. 
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: Kathyp on April 14, 2020, 01:14:54 pm
I watched the video.  It has compelling info.  I await more info.  IF it is lab created, the next question would be accident or intentional.
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: salvo on April 14, 2020, 02:13:23 pm
Hi Folks,

My opinion (however obtuse) is that it matters little whether this virus was natural or lab created.

Smallpox was natural, yet used as a weapon. Given to indigenous people.

Selective breeding (natural) produces Chihuahuas and Saint Bernards. Take a little bit of this,... add a little bit of that...

My opinion (gut feeling) is,... IT WAS INTENTIONALLY PRODUCED. It MAY HAVE BEEN unintentionally let loose.

Can anyone say that no country has well funded biological laboratories working on weaponizing just such a thing?

Easy-peasy.

Praise the Lord and pass the ammo!

Sal
Speak Australian: ?ǝʇᴉɯ ǝʎǝ pooפ





 
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: van from Arkansas on April 14, 2020, 04:04:50 pm
Fluff and nonsense.

You cite articles, where are they?

Milo, thank you for your opinion.  Salvo, you make a goof point, no argument from me.
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: Skeggley on April 14, 2020, 05:37:30 pm
Quote
Would you guys accept these measures?

We are although there are variations state to state.  We are a republic.

all but essential services are closed.  In my state that includes parks, state parks, hiking trails..

We will accept it up to a point, but as I said above, the goal never was to keep everyone well.  It was to keep the system from collapsing.  In particular, the medical system.

At some point, the balance between the economic damage being done and the potential for the virus to sicken or kill more people has to be weighed.
Using my left and right RB friends as a non-scientific barometer, I do not think people will tolerate this shutdown past the end of April.  I will say that my leftist friends are happier to comply as long as the government shovels out money.   :wink:  They don't seem to care where that money comes from.
Thank you Kathy, over here we are hearing a lot about NY but not about other states. The only way to keep systems from collapsing is to contain it. Of course people will get sick and die but we don?t want them spreading it around which is the issue.
There are control variations in each state here too but they are related to the number of cases. My state looks to be thinking about relaxing some of these measures like increasing gathering sizes so restaurants and parks can reopen. This is only possible because the virus is contained. The borders will remain shut until the other states and territories secure containment also. Impossible to put a time frame on it.
Fortunately our strong mineral resources sector is keeping our economy going and like you guys money is being thrown around by the government.
We?re just begun trialling TB drugs on nurses here too.
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: Ben Framed on April 14, 2020, 11:24:15 pm
Food For Thought

According to Daniel McAdams of the Liberty Report. (Fauci On The Ropes...Lashes Out At Trump)

"Alex  Berenson of the  NYT Points out Sweden did very little . No big gatherings. Restaurants are open. Businesses are open. Alex Berenson points out the deaths in Sweden should be massively swamped right now because they didn't do much, if, people like Anthony Fauci were right. But guess what, deaths per capita in Sweden have been FAR LOWER  than those in the UK, Italy, France, or  Spain.  Actually lower deaths while letting people go out and letting the economy continue."

HUM
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: Ben Framed on April 15, 2020, 12:32:40 am
A bit of good news.  I was a bit late getting it.


Army field hospital for Covid-19 surge leaves Seattle after 9 days. It never saw a patient
APR 08, 2020 at 1:05 PM
BY
Liz 2018 Headshot  Copy Liz Brazile


Gov. Jay Inslee's office on Wednesday announced that the state will be returning a field hospital deployed to CenturyLink Field Event Center to the U.S. Department of Defense.

The 250-bed facility, for which setup began on March 30, was intended to help Washington state's health care system tend to non Covid-19 patients in the event of a hospital surge.

But just three days after announcing the facility was ready to receive patients, officials say they're returning the hospital to the federal government.

The action is aimed at helping another state with a more significant need for hospital capacity at this time, according to the Governor's Office. The facility did not see any patients during the time it was slated to operate in Seattle.

"We requested this resource before our physical distancing strategies were fully implemented and we had considerable concerns that our hospitals would be overloaded with Covid-19 cases," Inslee said in a press release.

"But we haven?t beat this virus yet, and until we do, it has the potential to spread rapidly if we don?t continue the measures we?ve put in place."


Photos: The military field hospital at CenturyLink is ready to receive patients

State officials also say they've recently procured 1,000 hospital beds and over 900 ventilators to assist hospitals responding to the Covid-19 emergency.

Additionally, the state is leasing the former Astria Regional Medical Center in Yakima to serve as a 250-bed field hospital if a need arises in Central Washington.

KUOW - Army field hospital for Covid-19 surge leaves Seattle ...
www.kuow.org/stories/washington-state-to-return...
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: Milo on April 15, 2020, 07:23:11 am
Rebuttal of the accusations in the video

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/22221751.2020.1733440

The video is (IMHO) a shock horror raised eyebrows daunting music selective mix of fluff and the accusations have been debunked by several scientific peer reviews (links already posted).

And just a side: i note that some of the founders of Epoch Times are of the spiritual group Falun Gong which were notably persecuted by the Chinese government (and probably ongoing). The video is a propaganda tool aimed at a selective audience, or to put it another way, they are preaching to the converted.

Don?t get me wrong, China made a terrible state sanctioned mistake in trying to hide the virus, I just don?t believe the virus was manufactured in a lab.
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: Ben Framed on April 15, 2020, 10:20:23 am
>. Fluff and nonsense.

You had you mind made up before even watching the News Report As you posted the above three minutes after Van posted the report in which you are now now attacking. It was impossible to watch a 55 minute report in 3 minutes. I had ask you if you had already watched the report in which you was mute with an answer.

> And just a side: i note that some of the founders of Epoch Times are of the spiritual group Falun Gong which were notably persecuted by the Chinese government (and probably ongoing).

Yes the News Organization is dedicated to reveling the truths of the evil that is administered by the  communist Government there.  I do not know of their founders but do know most religions are mistreated and persecuted there. It is there country to govern as they please.Same as yours and mine.  Still it is  good to know what happens.

>. https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/22221751.2020.1733440

Look at the two main authors which have email availability next to their name. Did you happen to research their country of origin? Did you check to see their political parties leanings from that country?  Hum


Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: Kathyp on April 15, 2020, 11:10:29 am
Quote
Rebuttal of the accusations in the video

The reason the video had an impact on my thinking and sent me out to do more research is that I have followed some of the people who were in it and never found them to be alarmist or to lie in the service of an agenda.

As I spent some time searching the web yesterday, I found that not only do many who are "in the know" believe the virus came out of the lab, but there were some in China trying to warn the world about it too.  They seem to have been disapeared.

Not everyone agrees that it is necessarily a manufactured virus...or they express no opinion,  but they do believe it came out of the lab and much of what China did in the early days was meant to cover-up that info. 

I have a more open mind about this now.  I confess that my initial reaction was driven by my frustration with all things conspiracy, including the Q crap that is constantly spammed across all SN platforms. 
I knee-jerked.  I will try to do better.  :wink:

Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: Ben Framed on April 15, 2020, 12:26:07 pm
> In the mean time: every source on planet earth has been trying to convince us that their "findings" are the right ones. Is
   it a weaponized virus? Some say yes. Are we being fed "false data" to calm people down? ... or to excite us? Maybe.
   Maybe both ... I dunno. ... I figure we'll have a pretty good idea of the truth in 3-4 years.

> "Is it a weaponized virus? Some say yes. Are we being fed "false data" to calm people down? ... or to excite us?"

Very good point and questions Alan. I for one hope this was not an intentional weaponized virus which was purposely released. But, "if" it was then what is the goal and desired results of such an evil skeem? At the most, I would rather think it escaped the lab by pure accident. I do not wish to think the Chinese Government or any government would do such an intentional thing. The data of cases, charts and information, is coming in from all over the world and is updated continuously.  It might not be easy to fudge the numbers, in a significant way from each country as there are so many independent countries reporting the numbers. But as you said "Maybe".  I, as you, hope not. Yes Sir time will tell. In the meantime.............
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: herbhome on April 15, 2020, 01:20:58 pm
I just read this entire thread from the beginning. It gives an interesting perspective on this mess from the beginning.


Thanks for starting it, Ben.
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: CoolBees on April 15, 2020, 02:15:56 pm
Interesting. ...

Dr. SHIVA Ayyadurai, MIT PhD Crushes Dr. Fauci Exposes Birx, Clintons, etc

/youtu.be/NjjybyJ59Lw
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: Ben Framed on April 15, 2020, 02:40:52 pm
Interesting. ...

Dr. SHIVA Ayyadurai, MIT PhD Crushes Dr. Fauci Exposes Birx, Clintons, etc

https://youtu.be/NjjybyJ59Lw


Interesting to say the least. I just watched. This man is brilliant in more ways than one.  I also noticed the questioner was not afraid to ask bold, hard questions. The good Doc was straightforward with his answers. Thank you very much for sharing this Alan.
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: Kathyp on April 17, 2020, 10:32:03 pm
Anybody care to reconcile the multiple reports from researchers sequencing the genome of COVID-19 saying it was not manufactured?  I'll buy that it came out of a lab.  That bit makes a lot of sense along with the way China behaved.

Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: salvo on April 18, 2020, 07:57:05 am
Hi Folks,

Knowledge is power.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySAKR1CRFPA

It's complicated, isn't it?

Sal
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: Ben Framed on April 19, 2020, 10:10:46 am
Can this be true?
From what I understand, This seems to be saying this type of  study of Coronavirus  was outlawed in America in 2014 for the fear of an outbreak of a global pandemic as the results. Fauci was alleged, sidestepped our Government study by outsourcing  this study to Wuhan China, provided funding for further studies there with our taxpayer grant of $3.7 million which is criminal according to Dr Butare, and in his opinion is illegal by Fauci Colluding with a foreign government, breaking the laws of the United States of America as a treasonous act. Then in 2017 predicted that the Trump Administration WOULD  face a pandemic situation. Try cc if you can?t hear it. Did I understand this right? Can this be true?

https://youtu.be/BpwndRgw-kI
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: Kathyp on April 19, 2020, 06:37:38 pm
I don't know about your video, but it is true that we have granted money to that lab through NIH.  We are not alone in doing that.  Other countries have given them money as well.  We and others also exchanged research people with labs in China.
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: Ben Framed on April 19, 2020, 08:14:36 pm
I don't know about your video, but it is true that we have granted money to that lab through NIH.  We are not alone in doing that.  Other countries have given them money as well.  We and others also exchanged research people with labs in China.

I do not know about that video either. I was asking however if it is true. I hope it is not! Time will tell. Thanks Kathty,

Phillip
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: salvo on April 25, 2020, 10:20:41 pm
Hi Folks,

Bad language here.

Sal

Removed by moderator.
PM sent.
Jim Altmiller
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: CoolBees on April 26, 2020, 12:07:59 pm
Absolutely Hysterically Funny Salvo!! ... (and yes, REALLY BAD LANGUAGE)  :cheesy:
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: CoolBees on April 26, 2020, 07:57:22 pm
So - I said here before, that this "Virus" smelled like a hoax. ...

Someone (who has never heard my opinion on this topic) just sent me this video ...

https://youtu.be/cUmkVH1Gcls

Apparently, I'm not the only one who smelled a rat in this entire deal. ... time will tell ...

Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: Kathyp on April 27, 2020, 11:17:37 am
Quote
So - I said here before, that this "Virus" smelled like a hoax. ...

I would not say that.  We are learning new things as we go and as we find out more about how many have been infected the % of deaths vs infection goes down.

The number of deaths is much higher with this virus than with the flu because it is far more contagious and far more people are exposed/infected. There's no natural immunity in the population.
 While the % goes down, the death rate, and hospitalization rate is still far higher in many places than you would get with the seasonal flu. 

When we gamed things like pandemics (ours caused by terrorism), the goal was always to keep the system from collapsing.  Secondarily, to keep the disease contained to the fewest people possible.  The second assumed a treatment or vaccine available in short order.  Coronavirus is perfect for either natural pandemic or bio-warfare because human vaccinations for coronavirus are next to impossible to manufacture, and treatments are symptomatic.

We have enough data now to be pretty certain this was not manufactured.  Everything else is up for more investigation.  To your point, as we find out more, we can make better decisions.  Given what we knew and thought we knew in the beginning, what we did was reasonable.
Now it is time to rethink it, use what we know to open up smartly, and try not to have an NYC repeat!
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: CoolBees on April 27, 2020, 01:42:05 pm
All good points Kathy. You are spot on.

Now that we have killed [a yet to be determined number of] small businesses & jobs, it's time to open up - "smartly" as you say - to stop further losses to careers, businesses, etc. All the rest will be sorted out as we go forward.
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: Ben Framed on April 27, 2020, 02:16:30 pm
The Country that refused to kill its own economy. Are their numbers any better or worse than the rest of the world that did?

Sweden Coronavirus: 18,177 Cases and 2,192 Deaths - Worldometer
www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/sweden
Sweden Coronavirus update with statistics and graphs: total and new cases, deaths per day, mortality and recovery rates, current active cases, recoveries, trends and timeline.
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: CoolBees on April 27, 2020, 03:02:19 pm
The Country that refused to kill its own economy. Are their numbers any better or worse than the rest of the world that did?

Sweden Coronavirus: 18,177 Cases and 2,192 Deaths - Worldometer
www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/sweden
Sweden Coronavirus update with statistics and graphs: total and new cases, deaths per day, mortality and recovery rates, current active cases, recoveries, trends and timeline.

Some questions I would have regarding Sweden's data:

1 - what is the demographic of their population? - this virus is far harder on the Elderly & the Vulnerable, than the common Flu. And less dangerous than the common Flu in the younger age groups. So demographics matter, in understanding data.

2 - are Sweden's deaths being reported accurately? ... or, like NY, is every death involving sickness being reported as Covid, for lack of proper testing kits - and/or to support an agenda.

Italy had a heavily aging (and therefore vulnerable) population, which helps explain their death rate  (assuming accurate reporting).

These would be questions I'd want answers to - along with any data, in order to get a more complete picture of what we're dealing with. Proper supporting data has often been missing in the reporting of this Pandemic - I don't like it when reports are handed out that way. For sure the supporting data exists - so why can't we have access to it? ... missing details cause my eyebrows to raise, and my BS meter to start climbing ... in either case, we shall see ...
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: Ben Framed on April 27, 2020, 04:17:55 pm
> The Country that refused to kill its own economy. Are their numbers any better or worse than the rest of the world that
    did?

> or, like NY, is every death involving sickness being reported as Covid, for lack of proper testing kits - and/or to support
   an agenda.

   I do not know that there is an agenda there, except common sense and what is best for their country without destroying
   their economy? What they do there,  from the last I heard, is open necessary places a couple hours early, for the elderly
   and sickly people to shop, purchasing what is needed for themselves and their household. The general population is not
   allowed until a certain time. Therefore protection guidelines are especially made the elderly population. Even so, the
   elderly have the freedom of choice to mingle with the general population if they desire to frequent restaurants etc if they
   so choose making their own minds to the risk and living accordingly. The reported video was posted here for all to see.

   I do not have their Nations Population, or demographic of their population.  I just gazed at their specific reported
   numbers and this is what was reported as accurate as of 4/24.  If the numbers are fudged as NY, so much the better for
   their country, meaning there is even less number of percentage deaths there caused by the virus. Adding to their good
   fortune with a flowing economy. Especially since, (the last I heard), they did not fall in line with the (WHO), shutting
   down their Nations' economy and locking down their citizens.  I have not researched this since I posted the earlier video
   of their practices. Maybe that has changed? 
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: Kathyp on April 27, 2020, 05:15:08 pm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Sweden
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: Ben Framed on April 28, 2020, 01:39:03 am
Just watched the Ingram Angle Cool. Yes on Fox News. Your state of 45 Million has lost 1,776 lives. (If reported correctly). This is tragic and sad for each life lost, for each family that has suffered. So sad, if we picture each family standing beside the grave side of a so loved one.
But losing millions and millions as first reported? Similar to the bird flu of 1917? Maybe the Bat flu?  You was right the first time THIS MAY BE A HOAX! Stand your ground West Coast friend. lol




Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: CoolBees on April 29, 2020, 05:55:54 pm
Just watched the Ingram Angle Cool. Yes on Fox News. Your state of 45 Million has lost 1,776 lives. (If reported correctly). This is tragic and sad for each life lost, for each family that has suffered. So sad, if we picture each family standing beside the grave side of a so loved one.
But losing millions and millions as first reported? Similar to the bird flu of 1917? Maybe the Bat flu?  You was right the first time THIS MAY BE A HOAX! Stand your ground West Coast friend. lol

Yes Phillip, 1776 lives lost is sad. (Interesting number).

However - based data released yesterday of testing here in California - the ratio of the number of people who have had this virus*** to the number of people who have died - now puts this virus as "Less Lethal" than the annual flu. At least in this state.

*** total % of the state's population that test positive for antibodies to Covid 19. Means they had it already, amd recovered. Most never knew they had it.

Oh - and where I live, the "Shelter-in-place" order has been extended till the end of May. Our good friend just lost her job at a large company yesterday. She'd been there for many years. Lots of layoffs starting now. ... all for a virus was hyped to kill, but now we're finding it doesn't. As you point out, the Projections have [now] been proven to be false.

... this is why I smell a Rat! I could be very wrong - but I'm very often right on these things. ...
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: Milo on April 29, 2020, 07:15:28 pm
The comparison of actual figures of deaths from COVID-19 (those tested for and recorded as positive) to estimates of deaths from annual influenza has a fundamental problem.

One is factual, one is an educated guess

The UK is now starting to also count deaths in the tally from facilities where there has been positive detections of the SARS-Cov-2 and no other cause of death. This will potentially catch some some deaths caused by other factors, but common things happen commonly. Influenza is a common disease and its presenting symptoms are non-specific, but the simplest reason is often the correct one.

It will be difficult to compare the two causes of death but as an example for Australia in 2019 there were 298,120 laboratory confirmed cases of influenza, of these 812 died (0.27%). To date for SARS-Cov-2 there have been 6746 confirmed cases, of these 89 died (1.32%).

These figures are actuals not estimates.

Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: Kathyp on April 29, 2020, 08:04:38 pm
Quote
The comparison of actual figures of deaths from COVID-19 (those tested for and recorded as positive) to estimates of deaths from annual influenza has a fundamental problem.

We are doing antibody testing.  The extrapolation of those infected is coming from that testing.  It has been done by a number of groups in a number of places and is coming out about the same.  The extrapolation is putting the death rate on par with the seasonal flu, or close to it.  It is also telling us that in places like California, the virus has been around longer than we knew.  If you go back and look at newspaper articles from before we knew we had this virus here, California was recording a more severe flu season than usual.  In hindsight, they were probably experiencing both the flu and COVID-19.  While they recorded a good number of deaths, the deaths were not so many as to panic the powers that be. 

Unfortunately, it looks like we made decisions based on incomplete info. We treated the entire country as if it was Italy or New York.  That's no ones fault, but as we get better data, we need to adjust our thinking and actions.   
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: Ben Framed on April 30, 2020, 12:36:25 am
The last three posters have made some very good points. Things to consider in my opinion.
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: Skeggley on April 30, 2020, 09:25:48 pm
Just a quick update from here in the West of Australia. Due to the early imposed lockdowns, border closures and community support restrictions are easing within the state with multiple days of no new cases. It never got near the predicates outcomes and this is put down to the measures enforced. Traffic has picked up as it seems people are starting to filter back to work, myself included. Social gatherings are now restricted to 10 persons, up from 2.
As the days get cooler, coming into winter, bee work reducing ;), our regular flu season will start to kick in and perhaps thanks to our new life style with social distancing and hygienic improvements, this will also be impacted and more lives will be saved.
Now we have to sit back and wait to see how the rest of the world handles the situation before our borders can reopen. Looks like my next holiday won?t be overseas though. :(
Good luck.
 
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: Kathyp on May 01, 2020, 10:33:32 am
Quote
It never got near the predicates outcomes and this is put down to the measures enforced.

I am glad that things seem to be better there.  You may be lucky, but my fear for most of us is that all we have done is slow down the rate of infection.  People will not understand this and will be angry when folks start getting sick and dying again.

They should have been pounding this to people every day, that is was not about killing off the virus, but about not overwhelming the system.  Because they did not do this, they have left themselves open to blame by people who do not know any better.

One country seems to have done this right and that is Sweden.  Even WHO has come to that conclusion it seems.  Not that I put any faith in WHO!  They have gone from "China did it right" to "Sweden might be the model".   :cheesy:

Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: Milo on May 01, 2020, 06:12:38 pm
Sweden has universal healthcare

I wouldn?t try to compare it to the US model.
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: Kathyp on May 01, 2020, 06:50:52 pm
Quote
Sweden has universal healthcare

I don't think that has much to do with the decisions they made other than to make them more cautious about overwhelming the healthcare system.  Same with you guys and the NHS.
 We only had a few places like NYC  and NJ that were really worried about hospitals being overwhelmed and as it turned out, they were not.  Most hospitals are sitting pretty empty because everything other than emergencies is/was shut down. 

That is what flattening the curve was about though.  It was not about defeating the virus.

What is more to the point with Sweden is that they didn't mandate stuff.  They made accommodations for those most at risk, gave guidelines and suggestions, and let people go about their business.  They will get through this much faster and with much less damage than the rest of us hiding in our homes killing our economies. 
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: CoolBees on May 01, 2020, 08:16:36 pm
... What is more to the point with Sweden is that they didn't mandate stuff.  They made accommodations for those most at risk, gave guidelines and suggestions, and let people go about their business.  They will get through this much faster and with much less damage than the rest of us hiding in our homes killing our economies.

Agreed.
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: Milo on May 01, 2020, 08:40:18 pm

I don't think that has much to do with the decisions they made...

What is more to the point with Sweden is that they didn't mandate stuff.  They made accommodations for those most at risk, gave guidelines and suggestions, and let people go about their business.  They will get through this much faster and with much less damage than the rest of us hiding in our homes killing our economies.

I disagree, the capacity of their healthcare system would absolutely have factored into their decision making regarding lockdowns or not and they did in fact mandate that public gatherings of greater than 500 people were prohibited. This occurred on or about the 11th March.

You can not compare the models, it?s comparing apples with oranges
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: Skeggley on May 02, 2020, 04:13:36 pm

One country seems to have done this right and that is Sweden.  Even WHO has come to that conclusion it seems.  Not that I put any faith in WHO!  They have gone from "China did it right" to "Sweden might be the model".   :cheesy:

I cannot see how Sweden can be a positive model when Sweden has reported more than 21,000 confirmed cases, including nearly 2,500 fatalities (12 percent). Its death rate is nearly six times as high as that of Norway (nearly 2.6 percent) and nearly triple that of its other Scandinavian neighbors Finland (nearly 4.2 percent) and Denmark (nearly 4.9 percent).
Overwhelming the healthcare system or not, I?m not sure I?d like to live in a place where there?s a greater than 1 in 10 chance of dying if contracting the virus.... And this is providing there is an immunity once contracted....
So, like I said earlier, now we have to wait and see how other countries deal with the situation before we open up the borders.


Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: Ben Framed on May 02, 2020, 04:16:47 pm
Confirmed cases are of those tested, the real bottom line is deaths per-capita of that country. What does your numbers and percentages show on that?
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: Milo on May 02, 2020, 05:16:15 pm
Here it is

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-per-million-inhabitants/

Rounding, Sweden 260 deaths per million, USA 198 deaths per million, Finland & Norway both 39 deaths per million.

But these are based on local figures and the differences in reporting & testing make it very hard to compare. Most first world countries could potentially be viewed side by side but it comes down to how many tests have actually been undertaken to determine the true infection and death rates. There are many countries in the list that would not have the capacity to test for it and who?s records of deaths associated with COVID-19 would be dubious at best. Or they could be outright lies or obfuscation.
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: Kathyp on May 02, 2020, 05:28:25 pm
Here is why I think they did it right.

1. they didn't dictate to their people as if the people where stupid children
2. they did what was needed to protect those most at risk, while leaving the behavior decision of those at risk to them.
3. they did not trash their economy
4.  All of our sheltering will extend the time the virus is around infecting people, Sweden will have achieved herd immunity and they can go on with their lives.


You can't stop a virus unless you can catch it very early, it is not very contagious, and all the stars align.  None of those things are factors with this virus. 
In the end, we will have put far more people at risk with the things we have done than if we had taken some sensible measures to protect the vulnerable (if they wanted to be protected) and the end result in illness and death will be the same. 

Meanwhile, people lose all they have worked for, suicides are up and will go up, drug and alcohol use is up, and we accomplished nothing other than to ruin lives and our economy.

Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: Ben Framed on May 02, 2020, 05:57:38 pm
Good job Milo, Being Sweden never shut down its nations economy. Never stopped restaurants, barbers and hair salons, small business, large business, parks, by-way, highways, sidewalks, sidestreets, street-cars, churches etc. and on and on we could go, proves what? Proves Sweden should be a graveyard country that's what. It should be wallering in dead bodies. But instead and thankfully so, It's numbers are closely in line with the nations all over the world, that did shut down everything, that did social distancing, that did devastate their nations economies at the recommendation and direction of leadership of Who, No wonder Mr Trump dropped them off the free money list! Let's not forget, in our own country, opinions are divided.
Proves that the millions and millions of deaths per other countries, as first predicted by the WHO, was a little inaccurate. (And thank goodness). What does this tell us as individuals? I am sure there will be many opinions of this for quite some time. Question: Who is the brains behind WHO, who call the shots at the WHO? Sweden may also prove that China did not lie about their number of deaths? I do not know. But from the very first, I said the numbers, world wide, did not add up. They still do not add up. IMY.
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: Ben Framed on May 02, 2020, 05:58:37 pm
Good job Kathy.
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: Skeggley on May 02, 2020, 09:24:56 pm
Fair enough Kathy, I see your reasoning and if all humans were competent and trustworthy I?d agree, unfortunately there are many that aren?t and as much as you do the safe thing for yourself and family the fella standing next to you at the shops may not. I must confess I did not like being told how to live my life by the government though.
Unsure of Sweden?s economy situation however our problem here were imports of which we had no control over.
And, it all hinges on whether immunity is even possible and perhaps we should wait until Sweden?s stats begin to level out before making a call. ;)
As for conspiracy theory?s, I cannot see them being constructive at the moment, now is a time to pull together not splinter apart, there?s time later. The longer it takes to control this virus the longer it will take for us to get back to normal. Worldwide.
 
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: Milo on May 03, 2020, 03:48:21 am
I think the data shows the polar opposite, their neighbours in close proximity with similar if not identical culture (Nordic) have significantly fewer deaths. Or to look at it a different way Sweden has greater than a 500% increase in deaths.

Now the economic situation is not over and neither is the virus, if their neighbours get the situation under control will they allow border crossings from Sweden? The economic impact to Sweden may only be delayed and it is too early to evaluate.

I personally think that when we place an acceptable number of human deaths in order to earn dollars we lose our humanity. There will be a portion of the population in Sweden that will be thinking ?I wish we were over the border, maybe [insert significant other here] would be alive?. And it’s often a case of “it’s acceptable, as long as it’s not in my backyard”
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: Milo on May 03, 2020, 04:05:08 am
Also in terms of cost there is the Disability Adjusted Life Year?s (DALY) metric that should be used to calculate the cost to their economy from the disease burden. While I know of the DALY metric, it simply does my head in to read.
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: incognito on May 03, 2020, 09:56:53 am

Rounding, Sweden 260 deaths per million, USA 198 deaths per million, Finland & Norway both 39 deaths per million.

You are missing a critical component.
We need to know the portion of the population exposed / infected in order to project the total expected deaths. Sweden may be significantly closer to the end of the pandemic than other countries.

Over 20% of the population of the Bronx, New York have the antigens. Suggesting that that county could be 1/5 of the way through the pandemic. That assumes that having the antigens will prevent reinfection.


Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: Ben Framed on May 03, 2020, 11:02:29 am
>I personally think that when we place an acceptable number of human deaths in order to earn dollars we lose our humanity.

I appreciate what you are saying and have said similar myself.
Quote: post 139
Just watched the Ingram Angle Cool. Yes on Fox News. Your state of 45 Million has lost 1,776 lives. (If reported correctly). This is tragic and sad for each life lost, for each family that has suffered. So sad, if we picture each family standing beside the grave side of a so loved one.
But losing millions and millions as first reported? Similar to the bird flu of 1917? Maybe the Bat flu?  You was right the first time THIS MAY BE A HOAX! Stand your ground West Coast friend. lol

Milo we in America lose between 20,000 to 60,000 to flu each year. We have NEVER shut down our economy because of a YEARLY flu. What about your country, and your flu numbers? As I have said and keep saying, The numbers do not add up.
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: Kathyp on May 03, 2020, 01:29:34 pm
Quote
Fair enough Kathy, I see your reasoning and if all humans were competent and trustworthy I?d agree, unfortunately there are many that aren?t and as much as you do the safe thing for yourself and family the fella standing next to you at the shops may not. I must confess I did not like being told how to live my life by the government though.

The longer it takes to control this virus the longer it will take for us to get back to normal. Worldwide.

this is true, but we understand that in all that we do.  We get in our cars every day knowing that there may be a distracted or impaired driver, and we might be killed or injured because someone else is stupid.  Still, we drive.

You can't control a virus.  This, I think, is the great disconnect in thinking that people need to deal with.  We try to control the flu every year with vaccines.  Around the world, 100s of thousands die of the flu each year. 
Sometimes, if we are very lucky, we get something like SARS, which was less contagious and easier to spot, and we get a handle on it.  Try as they might though, they never developed a vaccine for SARS.  They just got lucky.  Pretty much the same with MERS.  If you have not read about MERS, do so.  It is one nasty, scary, disease with a very high death rate. 

This virus is very contagious.  By the time we had seen what was happening in China, many 1000s of Chinese had traveled around the world.  No matter the choices any country made, the virus was and is, out.  Staying locked up will not change that.

Quote
I personally think that when we place an acceptable number of human deaths in order to earn dollars we lose our humanity. There will be a portion of the population in Sweden that will be thinking ?I wish we were over the border, maybe [insert significant other here] would be alive?. And it?s often a case of ?it?s acceptable, as long as it?s not in my backyard?

I don't believe this is an either/or issue.  Either we stay shut up in our homes, or people die in mass numbers are not the only choices.

  There is a human cost to destroying the economy.  There is a personal loss for those who have spent a lifetime building a business.  There is personal economic loss as inflation sets in.  There is a financial loss for those who wish to save for the future or depend on dividends for part of their retirement.  There is an education loss as we keep kids out of school and universities are shut down. 

We are already seeing an uptick in suicides, domestic abuse, alcohol and drug use.  We are seeing our food supply chain breaking down, and long lines at food banks.

The solution from some of my "I don't think things all the way through" friends is that the government will step in and support people until this is over.  Where does the government get its money?  Taxes, borrowing, or printing.  Every choice has an economic price and that price ends up on the heads of the people.

There is another thing to remember:  As we speak, crops are being eaten by locust swarms in Africa and they will probably hit the Arabian Peninsula again.  What happens when you have a large number of people who are starving and feeling hopeless?  What happens when the countries who usually have an excess and can help, don't have that capacity because they decided to try to do something stupid like lock up and hid from a virus.


Quote
That assumes that having the antigens will prevent reinfection.

Just read a report that they believe once infected, you can't get it again.

The % of people who will get this will not change.  The only difference is how quickly you can get everyone through this.  What we have done will just make it all last longer.




 
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: Milo on May 03, 2020, 05:56:03 pm
You are missing a critical component.
We need to know the portion of the population exposed / infected in order to project the total expected deaths. Sweden may be significantly closer to the end of the pandemic than other countries.

No I?m not missing it, I keep saying you cannot compare the data from the different country?s.

Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: incognito on May 04, 2020, 09:14:52 am
You was right the first time THIS MAY BE A HOAX!
Long Island, New York (Nassau and Suffolk County) has 70,000 cases and 3,000 deaths so far.
My wife, a critical care health care worker assigned to rapid responses at a local hospital, has tested positive for the antigen (it detects some type of Corona virus). Several of her coworkers tested positive for the virus. My sister in law just tested positive for the virus.

This is not a hoax.
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: Kathyp on May 04, 2020, 11:12:39 am
Quote
This is not a hoax.

It is not.  I also don't blame the powers that be for the reactions to it.  Now that we are getting more info on infection rate vs death and hospitalization rate, those powers need to rethink the reaction.  Go back to the original goal of not overwhelming the system, use some smart precautions to protect those who need protection, and get the country opened up.

We need to remember also that people from different vocations have different ways of looking at things.  Medical people want everyone to be healthy and no one to die.  That's a good thing if you land in their care.  It is not a practical way of looking at all of life.

Last nite I got one of my FB friends to finally tell me how long he thought we should remain closed up.  "Until there are no new cases of the virus." was his answer.  I don't think that any thinking person would agree with that. 



Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: Hops Brewster on May 04, 2020, 01:59:41 pm
If we were to all wait for perfect conditions our species wouldn't even exist.  It is overcoming risk and danger that makes us stronger and drives evolution.  I, for one, am not going to hide in my hole and wait for a perfect return to the pre-CV19 world.

I survived the polio plague without illness, the bird flu and it's poisonous, often lethal vaccine (I'll avoid the first issue CV19 vaccine, thank you, lesson learned).  I got through my teenage years somehow, and lived to tell about it.  I even made it through this far in life to become a member of the "High Risk" category for CV19.  Yes, all the experts expect me to hide for months to come, to be "safe".  To hell with them.  I will take prudent precautions when I'm out and about, but I'm going in to work 5 days a week, shopping, camping and fishing.

Something, some day will kill me.  Maybe this crap will be it, or maybe I have another 30 years left until another plague gets me.  Unelected physician-bureaucrats have had far too much control over our lives in this matter.  I aim to live what life I have left with gusto and without hand-wringing.  And with a bit of prudence.
My new motto:  Ain't Skeered!
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: iddee on May 04, 2020, 02:53:18 pm
AMEN, Hops. ME, TOO.

At 75, what have I got to lose? I would rather live another happy month than 20 miserable years.
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: CoolBees on May 04, 2020, 04:01:28 pm
Hops - you nailed my attitude towards this whole thing. Something is gonna kill me for sure - but I ain't gonna quit livin' till then. ... I caught some trout this weekend ... gonna chase down some wild boar later this week  :grin: ... you gotta keep livin'

I can't understand the people who've locked themselves up in fear - we don't get out of life alive folks - GO LIVE! (1 man's opinion here)  :cool:
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: incognito on May 04, 2020, 04:16:55 pm
Medical people want everyone to be healthy and no one to die.
I aim to live what life I have left with gusto and without hand-wringing.  And with a bit of prudence.
At 75, what have I got to lose? I would rather live another happy month than 20 miserable years.
Kathy, Hops, Iddee,
Well said.
Last week I decided it was time to resume physical therapy after taking a month off due to covid 19. Actually, the physical therapists asked me not to come in when they learned that my wife was a health care professional and I showed up with a mask on.

You reminded me of a book.
I recommend reading Being Mortal - Medicine and What Matters in the End by Atul Gawande. Published by Metropolitan Books. It is written by a physician, the son of two physicians, and how medicine treats terminally ill patients.


Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: incognito on May 04, 2020, 04:32:39 pm
I can't understand the people who've locked themselves up in fear - we don't get out of life alive folks - GO LIVE!
I can say for myself that is was not due to fear itself.

I self-isolated: 1) because I could; 2) to give the health care professionals time to handle the surge; and 3) to buy time for the health care professionals to experiment with treatments. I fully expected my wife to bring the virus home with her and share it with me despite the self-isolation.
The hospitals in this part of the state were inundated. Things are just starting to get back to the new normal. My wife's unit is going to start up again soon. The staff (critical care trained) was reassigned to the Ambulatory Surgery Unit which was converted into a makeshift covid 19 ICU.
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: CoolBees on May 04, 2020, 07:00:41 pm
I can't understand the people who've locked themselves up in fear - we don't get out of life alive folks - GO LIVE!
I can say for myself that is was not due to fear itself.

I self-isolated: 1) because I could; 2) to give the health care professionals time to handle the surge; and 3) to buy time for the health care professionals to experiment with treatments. I fully expected my wife to bring the virus home with her and share it with me despite the self-isolation.
The hospitals in this part of the state were inundated. Things are just starting to get back to the new normal. My wife's unit is going to start up again soon. The staff (critical care trained) was reassigned to the Ambulatory Surgery Unit which was converted into a makeshift covid 19 ICU.

Incognito - to clarify my statement - I was only referring to the many cases that I've seen of perfectly healthy people cowering in fear, unwilling to even step out their front door - people I personally know.

The elderly should definitely take caution, as should the vulnerable, & people in your situation, etc. All of these I readily understand. ... and many thanks to the health care professionals who are putting their lives on the line to help others!

I could/should have clarified this better to start with. Thanks for pointing it out.
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: Kathyp on May 04, 2020, 07:32:40 pm
Quote
to give the health care professionals time to handle the surge

and that was the flattening the curve bit.  Perfectly reasonable call considering where you are

Quote
I fully expected my wife to bring the virus home with her and share it with me despite the self-isolation.

Yeah, I expected hubby to bring it home.  He may have.  I was sick twice in late winter and I never get sick.  Who knows?  One of us will get the antibody test when we can and assume the results apply to both of us   :grin:

Every person and every area has to make its own decisions.  Unfortunately, that didn't happen even within states.  My gov just issued an edict that she had emergency power to extend our shut down for another 60 days.  Of course, she doesn't know there is any more to the state than Portland and Salem.  A growing number are flipping her the bird and opening up. 

Laws are passed by legislatures.  Most of what these governors are doing is not law.  They may have limited emergency powers, but those powers must apply to the situation, not to their ideology.   I hope there are court cases so that this stuff can be cleared up before we ever have to face something like this again.
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: incognito on May 04, 2020, 11:00:56 pm
One of us will get the antibody test when we can and assume the results apply to both of us.
That did not work for us.
She tested positive for antigens- had a vial of blood drawn at work. Positive could be from other corona viruses, not the new one.
I was not reactive (negative) to the pin prick drop of blood on paper test.

Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: incognito on May 04, 2020, 11:10:34 pm
My wife's unit is going to start up again soon.
Well Governor Cuomo says not yet to reopening. No elective procedures until the end of the month. How absurd! The hospital can handle it now. They can always cancel the elective procedures if the virus spikes again. Her unit was kept clean of corona but they still did the deep clean last week.


There was a small open NY protest a few miles from my home this weekend. We are getting fed up with it too.
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: CoolBees on May 05, 2020, 03:42:54 pm
This guy sums up all of the various information about the virus that has been coming to light recently.

https://newswithviews.com/covid-19-is-quacking-like-the-flu/
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: Kathyp on May 05, 2020, 07:29:20 pm
Quote
No elective procedures until the end of the month. How absurd!

And there will be fallout from this.  Here, the clinics are closed and doctors are doing phone or video consults.  How many diseases are being missed, or biopsies not done because of this?  Their definition of elective is anything other than an emergency.  My mother in CA had an angiogram scheduled for last month and it was canceled.  That's kinda important, but it's not an emergency...until she dies I guess. 
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: Ben Framed on May 05, 2020, 11:38:29 pm
HUM


https://youtu.be/5iPihogbh3o

https://youtu.be/GFNvcw12d08
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: CoolBees on May 05, 2020, 11:43:59 pm
Quote
No elective procedures until the end of the month. How absurd!

....  How many diseases are being missed, or biopsies not done because of this?  Their definition of elective is anything other than an emergency.  My mother in CA had an angiogram scheduled for last month and it was canceled.  That's kinda important, but it's not an emergency...until she dies I guess.

Now that you bring this up Kathy - our friend just died last Friday from an undiagnosed gastrointestinal infection. They sent her home on the 1st visit without checking her out because of "Covid". She was back 2 days later, but it was too late. 36 years old and beautiful. Very sad!  :angry:
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: Milo on May 06, 2020, 07:07:53 am
Testing here is now open to all comers free of charge so the state government can see if there are any undiagnosed cases of community transmission.

Stood in line (social distancing - paint marks on the bitumen for those that can?t work it out) for my swab. Looooooong swab down the throat then right into the sinus up both nostrils. Made my eyes water. Results in five days.

I don?t expect anything but who knows and only testing will get them to open so...
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: sawdstmakr on May 06, 2020, 09:27:02 am
As a first responder, I have to get tested today. Not looking forward to this.
Jim Altmiller
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: Hops Brewster on May 06, 2020, 10:33:24 am
Good luck Jim.
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: Ben Framed on May 06, 2020, 11:11:13 am
I am hearing test, test, test. It seems every news station I watch or read is pushing testing very hard. What is to be accomplished by such a wide spread of testing? Either we have it or we don?t. Either we have had it or we haven?t. I suppose the testing will reveal that as well. What is this wide girth of testing for?
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: Kathyp on May 06, 2020, 01:24:56 pm

Quote
Testing here is now open to all comers free of charge so the state government can see if there are any undiagnosed cases of community transmission.

some places are doing that here.  I have mixed feelings about it.  For people going back to work it is nice to know if they are infected, but the test is a snapshot in time.  You may become infected tomorrow.

The antibody test seems more valuable overall to me. 

But hey, whatever it takes to unwind the mess that's been made.
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: Ben Framed on May 06, 2020, 02:08:12 pm
Is your DNA also being collected with this test?
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: Kathyp on May 06, 2020, 02:41:37 pm
Quote
Is your DNA also being collected with this test?

People worry about that but it's another horse out of the barn.  In the 90s the military started collecting DNA samples from service members.  Made some sense.  Sometimes you only have that to ID a person.  Since, DNA has been collected and shared without our knowledge by all kinds of places, most notably to research facilities by our medical facilities.

Most of that is supposed to be shared blind, but who knows.  Honestly, on my list of things that worry my, that's way low on the list.   :cheesy:
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: incognito on May 06, 2020, 10:09:34 pm
Quote
No elective procedures until the end of the month. How absurd!

....  How many diseases are being missed, or biopsies not done because of this?  Their definition of elective is anything other than an emergency.  My mother in CA had an angiogram scheduled for last month and it was canceled.  That's kinda important, but it's not an emergency...until she dies I guess.

Now that you bring this up Kathy - our friend just died last Friday from an undiagnosed gastrointestinal infection. They sent her home on the 1st visit without checking her out because of "Covid". She was back 2 days later, but it was too late. 36 years old and beautiful. Very sad!  :angry:
My condolences, may she rest in peace.
The cost of her life in the war against Covid will never be appropriately counted.

You have every right to be angry. Write your elected representatives and let them know. Mention her by name and describe the family she left behind for impact.


Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: incognito on May 06, 2020, 10:12:15 pm
Apparently we are not following the newly discovered science.


https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/06/ny-gov-cuomo-says-its-shocking-most-new-coronavirus-hospitalizations-are-people-staying-home.html

Cuomo says it?s ?shocking? most new coronavirus hospitalizations are people who had been staying home
Most new Covid-19 (https://www.cnbc.com/coronavirus/) hospitalizations in New York state are from people who were staying home and not venturing much outside, a ?shocking? finding, Gov. Andrew Cuomo said Wednesday.   
The preliminary data was from 100 New York hospitals involving about 1,000 patients, Cuomo said at his daily briefing.It shows that 66% of new admissions were from people who had largely been sheltering at home. The next highest source of admissions was from nursing homes, 18%.


?If you notice, 18% of the people came from nursing homes, less than 1% came from jail or prison, 2% came from the homeless population, 2% from other congregate facilities, but 66% of the people were at home, which is shocking to us,? Cuomo said.
?This is a surprise: Overwhelmingly, the people were at home,? he added. ?We thought maybe they were taking public transportation, and we?ve taken special precautions on public transportation, but actually no, because these people were literally at home.?
Cuomo said nearly 84% of the hospitalized cases were people who were not commuting to work through car services, personal cars, public transit or walking. He said a majority of those people were either retired or unemployed. Overall, some 73% of the admissions were people over age 51.
He said the information shows that those who are hospitalized are predominantly from the downstate area in or around New York City, are not working or traveling and are not essential employees. He also said a majority of the cases in New York City are minorities, with nearly half being African American or Hispanic. Cuomo said state health officials had thought a high percentage of people who were hospitalized would be essential employees, like health-care workers or city staff, who are still going to work.
?Much of this comes down to what you do to protect yourself. Everything is closed down, government has done everything it could, society has done everything it could. Now it?s up to you,? Cuomo said.
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: incognito on May 06, 2020, 10:14:59 pm


Go to 1:27

https://abc7ny.com/video/embed/?pid=6156859 (https://abc7ny.com/video/embed/?pid=6156859)
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: incognito on May 06, 2020, 10:24:52 pm
Either we have it or we don?t. Either we have had it or we haven?t. I suppose the testing will reveal that as well. What is this wide girth of testing for?
The antigen test is a useful measure of how far into the community the virus has spread.
There is no reason to remain closed once 100% (or less) of the community has been infected.
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: Milo on May 07, 2020, 04:32:37 am
Increase the number of tests undertaken and yes you will find more cases. If the tests were for antibodies then how many of these cases were due to communication before isolation.

There is nothing new in this situation, start looking for something that is common and you are going to find it. 1% from jail and 2% from the homeless, come on really.
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: Kathyp on May 07, 2020, 11:42:15 am
Quote
Increase the number of tests undertaken and yes you will find more cases. If the tests were for antibodies then how many of these cases were due to communication before isolation.

There is nothing new in this situation, start looking for something that is common and you are going to find it. 1% from jail and 2% from the homeless, come on really.

This is in line with an earlier study from somewhere that most infections came from someone within the home.  Higher rate of nursing home infections occurs under the same circumstances.  Lock people up and all they can do is breathe on each other and in NYC, they all live on top of one another so doubly not surprising.

Not sure how to square the jail population bit, but I don't really care.  This should not have been used as an excuse to turn 1000s of them loose on the rest of us.

Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: Ben Framed on May 07, 2020, 12:54:54 pm
> Lock people up and all they can do is breathe on each other

Exactly. As in air travel for hours at a time crammed together, breathing the same air. And not only that, when these travelers get off the plane they disperse in every direction. Yet these officials want to arrest a mother with her kids at the park or a hiker etc. Either a hoax or stupid people who have TAKEN charge?
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: Kathyp on May 07, 2020, 08:27:56 pm
I'll go with stupid people.  It most certainly is not a hoax, but as we learn more, it is not as deadly as first thought.

I don't blame people for making decisions based on the info in hand.  I blame them when they can't adjust when the info updates.
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: Ben Framed on July 25, 2020, 02:51:14 pm
This special comment on the last MedCram caught my special attention (in the comment section):

" Chris Moore
1 day ago
Please give us a report on the interaction between NAC and Dexamethasone on the platelet clots. And also create a prophylaxis program for household members of infected people, Perhaps D3, Zinc, Vitamin C, HydroChloroQuilzl and whatever else you guys are using, and suggest to NIH and CDC have it distributed at govt cost. It?s cheaper than treating the disease. Use the name Maj Gen William L Moore Jr and send it to Fauci and Redfield directly. He was both of their bosses in the past, and he?s my father. He approves of this message. He loves your work!!! "


https://youtu.be/tFXr14xmuGw
Title: Re: New Chinese virus 'will have infected hundreds'
Post by: Ben Framed on August 20, 2020, 06:30:22 pm
This came out two hours ago. A must see for you science minded folks.


https://youtu.be/pvmtT_XV4aw