Beemaster's International Beekeeping Forum

BEEKEEPING LEARNING CENTER => GENERAL BEEKEEPING - MAIN POSTING FORUM. => Topic started by: 2Sox on July 16, 2019, 08:44:20 pm

Title: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
Post by: 2Sox on July 16, 2019, 08:44:20 pm
Don't.  Pissy, nasty bees.  I'll never get these again. They are on me before I even approach the hive. I'm literally giving away three hives to a beekeeper friend who keeps some of his hives in an isolated spot in a cemetery. That's how much I dislike these bees.  My cousin upstairs got stung just sitting on her terrace on the second floor on the other side of the yard!  Houses in my area are very close together and I can't take the chance on anyone else getting hurt. I'm done.
Title: Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
Post by: Ben Framed on July 16, 2019, 09:26:46 pm
Don't.  Pissy, nasty bees.  I'll never get these again. They are on me before I even approach the hive. I'm literally giving away three hives to a beekeeper friend who keeps some of his hives in an isolated spot in a cemetery. That's how much I dislike these bees.  My cousin upstairs got stung just sitting on her terrace on the second floor on the other side of the yard!  Houses in my area are very close together and I can't take the chance on anyone else getting hurt. I'm done.

2Sox It is to late now as you have gave them to a friend. You might have already thought of it, but didn't give a hoot after all the meanness form your bees, but you could have re-queened the hives and after the older bees died out in a few weeks, your hives should have mellowed out. I hope you have better experiences with you next bees. I do hope you will still be keeping bees?
Phillip
Title: Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
Post by: 2Sox on July 16, 2019, 10:08:51 pm
Don't.  Pissy, nasty bees.  I'll never get these again. They are on me before I even approach the hive. I'm literally giving away three hives to a beekeeper friend who keeps some of his hives in an isolated spot in a cemetery. That's how much I dislike these bees.  My cousin upstairs got stung just sitting on her terrace on the second floor on the other side of the yard!  Houses in my area are very close together and I can't take the chance on anyone else getting hurt. I'm done.

2Sox It is to late now as you have gave them to a friend. You might have already thought of it, but didn't give a hoot after all the meanness form your bees, but you could have re-queened the hives and after the older bees died out in a few weeks, your hives should have mellowed out. I hope you have better experiences with you next bees. I do hope you will still be keeping bees?
Phillip

I can see how you might have inferred that I was giving up bees. No way. But I'm done with THESE bees. Requeening is exactly what I had been planning. In fact I had already ordered Italian queens from Olivarez but I'm cancelling my order in the morning and I will clarify.  In another thread I asked about the best way to move hives because I have workers coming to install ductless AC and they will be working in the backyard with the bees. I had to move the bees on the other side of the yard - 15-20 feet. 

Now, if these bees are in MY face as soon as I merely walk into the yard, you can imagine what will happen to these workers with NO protection and NO comfort around bees to begin with. A disaster waiting to happen.
These guys are coming next week and I don't have the luxury of time.

The most important factor are the wishes and safety of my wife. She keeps a beautiful garden and gets great pleasure from it.  Now she can't even set foot in the yard and if I requeened and kept these bees, it would be weeks until she'd be able to come into the yard again.  Just as important, I promised her I'd only keep 4 hives in the yard (I could get away with 6). But now I have nine after a cutout next week. The fates are against me. That's why I'm giving my bees to my pal Nick.  No worries. What comes around goes around.
Title: Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
Post by: Bushpilot on July 16, 2019, 11:49:38 pm
I hadn't noted that trait from my Saskatraz. I did note that they really like to build burr comb and queen cups. My sample is small (3), but they all do it, and the Carnis and Mutts in the same yard don't. No big deal, but different.
Title: Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
Post by: CoolBees on July 17, 2019, 12:01:01 am
Well 2sox ... I appreciate your input on this. I've been looking at "other strains" of bees, and I always come back to "finding the fix in what I've got". ... guess I'll stick with it.  :grin:
Title: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
Post by: TheHoneyPump on July 17, 2019, 01:45:23 am
FYI. The description(s) given above is definitely NOT my experience with SaskaTraz. In experience sample size of hundreds; I find them to be calm, productive, frugal, slow to start in spring but once they do they are prolific and go hard at it. Please disregard the negative comments made above and in the thread title wrt Saskatraz, they are categorically FALSE. 

There may be problem bees in the area, not denying that. And whatever they are they had to go, for sure, given the situation.  However attributing to the Saskatraz line is folly. Something else is in those problem hive(s). Perhaps they have unknowingly to you requeened themself and mated with feral africanized drones in your area. Only the original queen is SkTz. Soon as there is a daughter open mated in an unkown area the lineage ends and it is no longer an SkTz. The hybrids, the mutts, can be unpredictable.  Or the situation may simply be perhaps wherever the SkTz supposedly came from are the same guy(s) who made the emperors clothes.

This is a good representation of what I see and what you can expect with true SkTz:

https://youtu.be/7dvJvIi5UHA
Title: Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
Post by: Ben Framed on July 17, 2019, 04:11:38 am
Thanks for the clarification 2Sox. Yes you are in a tight spot. Those girls are mad! Glad to hear you are sticking with bees.
Phillip
Title: Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
Post by: 2Sox on July 17, 2019, 12:11:26 pm
I hadn't noted that trait from my Saskatraz. I did note that they really like to build burr comb and queen cups. My sample is small (3), but they all do it, and the Carnis and Mutts in the same yard don't. No big deal, but different.

This is very interesting.  I installed just two Saskatraz queens. And from my observations thus far (remember in a yard with several hives it's difficult to be conclusive about this) these demons seem only to come from one of those queens.  I'm going out this morning to test my hypothesis but whatever I find, I can't risk even MARGINALLY aggressive bees in my neighborhood, with kids playing in the yard on one side of my fence, and people barbecuing on the other.  These hives are history.
Title: Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
Post by: Fishing-Nut on July 17, 2019, 12:23:05 pm
I haven't had that experience either. I've worked a few large saskatraz hives and didn't have any problems. I did find them to be a little more "testy" than some of the other bees but nothing unmanageable. They weren't bouncing off of my veil or anything.  Just a little louder and a lot more jittery and reactive to fast movements or frame bumping while going through them. The only time I've had bees get real nasty with me was actually with my calmest hive. They went queenless (dont know what happened) and whew wee they got VERY NASTY! to the point that I didnt go into that hive for a good while.
Title: Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
Post by: Ben Framed on July 17, 2019, 01:39:20 pm
I hadn't noted that trait from my Saskatraz. I did note that they really like to build burr comb and queen cups. My sample is small (3), but they all do it, and the Carnis and Mutts in the same yard don't. No big deal, but different.

This is very interesting.  I installed just two Saskatraz queens. And from my observations thus far (remember in a yard with several hives it's difficult to be conclusive about this) these demons seem only to come from one of those queens.  I'm going out this morning to test my hypothesis but whatever I find, I can't risk even MARGINALLY aggressive bees in my neighborhood, with kids playing in the yard on one side of my fence, and people barbecuing on the other.  These hives are history.

You did what you had to do, I don?t blame you for ditching them under the circumstances. They were not to be enjoyed or worked around and time was running out. No matter their breeding, even if they were half butterfly, they had to go... 😀
Title: Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
Post by: Hethen57 on July 17, 2019, 01:54:32 pm
2Sox, I think your experience is in the minority with those types of bees, but I have heard a few others with similar complaints; however, I totally get it.. in an urban setting or with houses nearby, you can't tolerate nasty bees or you will damage neighbor relations and make going into your own backyard miserable.  Generally speaking, on the Varroa resistance spectrum, gentleness is often sacrificed in favor of greater hygienic behavior.  Saskatraz bees are supposed to be more hygienic which moves them further towards Russians on the gentleness spectrum.  Carnis would probably be a decent compromise for your region of the country with the need to overwinter bees in smaller clusters. I raised them near the Canadian border and they overwintered well and were relatively gentle except at honey harvest time.  Now I live further South and have Italians and all of my hives are like the Labrador Retrievers of the bee world... they don't even pay me any attention while doing a full inspection, and I'm not talking about 5 frame nucs (which are generally not big enough to be testy anyway), these are big hives.  Sorry those ones didn't work out, but it can be a "crap shoot" where you have queen genetics mixed with often more than 20 drones of varying lineage...all it takes is that one genetically nasty drone to mix in some bad behavior into the colony.
Title: Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
Post by: 2Sox on July 17, 2019, 02:19:56 pm
FYI. The description(s) given above is definitely NOT my experience with SaskaTraz. In experience sample size of hundreds; I find them to be calm, productive, frugal, slow to start in spring but once they do they are prolific and go hard at it. Please disregard the negative comments made above and in the thread title wrt Saskatraz, they are categorically FALSE. 

There may be problem bees in the area, not denying that. And whatever they are they had to go, for sure, given the situation.  However attributing to the Saskatraz line is folly. Something else is in those problem hive(s). Perhaps they have unknowingly to you requeened themself and mated with feral africanized drones in your area. Only the original queen is SkTz. Soon as there is a daughter open mated in an unkown area the lineage ends and it is no longer an SkTz. The hybrids, the mutts, can be unpredictable.  Or the situation may simply be perhaps wherever the SkTz supposedly came from are the same guy(s) who made the emperors clothes.

This is a good representation of what I see and what you can expect with true SkTz:

https://youtu.be/7dvJvIi5UHA

HP,
I'm am very pleased that you are pleased with your Saskatraz bees. Thank you for the video and I wish you continued success. However, I take umbrage with your comment to disregard my comments; comments only based upon my experience.  What was you purpose in saying this?  Was it to encourage me and others to express ourselves here? Or to intimidate and insinuate with a not so veiled insult? Did you want to be mean? You know, it IS possible to be critical AND kind at the same time.

However, I am critical of myself. I could have simply said, "In my opinion" and told my story. It was good that you began with your own experience, which had me see where I could have been more thoughtful about what I wrote. 

Some of your above post is useful and I've learned from it. But I think, you could think more about your purpose before you post. People sometimes mistakenly feel that the way they will shine is to put someone else in the shadows - a mistake I too have made. Humility is something I'm learning about too.
Title: Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
Post by: 2Sox on July 17, 2019, 02:28:57 pm
2Sox, I think your experience is in the minority with those types of bees, but I have heard a few others with similar complaints; however, I totally get it.. in an urban setting or with houses nearby, you can't tolerate nasty bees or you will damage neighbor relations and make going into your own backyard miserable.  Generally speaking, on the Varroa resistance spectrum, gentleness is often sacrificed in favor of greater hygienic behavior.  Saskatraz bees are supposed to be more hygienic which moves them further towards Russians on the gentleness spectrum.  Carnis would probably be a decent compromise for your region of the country with the need to overwinter bees in smaller clusters. I raised them near the Canadian border and they overwintered well and were relatively gentle except at honey harvest time.  Now I live further South and have Italians and all of my hives are like the Labrador Retrievers of the bee world... they don't even pay me any attention while doing a full inspection, and I'm not talking about 5 frame nucs (which are generally not big enough to be testy anyway), these are big hives.  Sorry those ones didn't work out, but it can be a "crap shoot" where you have queen genetics mixed with often more than 20 drones of varying lineage...all it takes is that one genetically nasty drone to mix in some bad behavior into the colony.

Thanks for this.  It's nice to know that there are people who can understand and sympathize with my situation.  And thanks to you too, Ben Framed for your understanding.  One of the things I like most about Beemaster is that most people here genuinely want to help and have a good effect on others. We never should underestimate how important this is, and how much this contributes to the encouragement of those who come here to express themselves.

Title: Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
Post by: Bob Wilson on July 17, 2019, 05:43:09 pm
HoneyPump. I read one of your posts earlier in the season, where you said (if I recall right), that the main reason you were on this forum was to share all the beekeeping experience you have. I am very glad you give it, and I read it with expectation. However, I will agree with 2Sox some.
Being a great beekeeping teacher requires more than superior knowledge and experience, which we know you have. (I know little about bees, but I know a lot about teaching.) It takes patience and compassion at the follies of students. Of course we newbees are more ignorant, less experienced, and quick to give up, but sometimes your posts come across with impatience and a hard attitude. I think that's why 2Sox asked you about your purpose. Do you really want to help us? I wonder if you have forgotten the first years of beekeeping. So, keep working with us. Your replies often cause me to think in whole new directions, which I really like (and need) a lot. We newbees need people like you.
Title: Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
Post by: Ben Framed on July 17, 2019, 06:11:53 pm
This is another good thing about beemaster, we have experienced beekeepers here as well as inexperienced beekeepers of all stages from all around the world. Sometimes each of us can misunderstand one another, as well as being misunderstood by one another. But the good news is, we always seem to come to together for the good of one another and the good of the bees. Mr Claude told me a good while ago he was here for the good of the bees as well as the beekeeper.  I am secure in my mind that Mr Claude has nothing but good intentions for the beekeeper as well as the bees. Different teachers have different methods, of teaching and I think we all have, here, the same purposes and goals in mind. To help each other, learn all we can, and make friends along the way. Sometime we each can error from time to time. Especially Ben Framed. I also feel as we get to know one another better we will become more tolerant of one another?s different methods. As long as we keep on as we are going,,  communicating, we should all be fine; helping to make beemaster even better than ever.
Phillip
Title: Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
Post by: CoolBees on July 17, 2019, 06:31:51 pm
HoneyPump ... We newbees need people like you.

X2
Title: Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
Post by: beesnweeds on July 17, 2019, 06:56:42 pm
What are Saskatraz bees ?  Are they crossbred New Zealand / Australian bees?  What's the original source of bees for these queens?
Title: Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
Post by: beesnweeds on July 17, 2019, 07:28:52 pm
Maybe the OP did get some hot Saskatraz bees.

This off the Saskatraz site.

Introduction An important part of any breeding program is the commercialization and distribution of the breeding stock to the end users. A long term objective of the Saskatraz project (www.saskatraz.com) is to produce Saskatraz production queens in adequate numbers, at reasonable prices, for commercial beekeepers, in the spring of the year. Since the Saskatchewan climate is not suitable for production of large numbers of queens in a timely fashion attempts were made to have queens from Saskatraz breeders produced in Chile, Australia and Northern California. We succeeded in establishing commercial queen production capabilities in Orland, California in 2012-2013 with David Powell and Ray Olivarez, two large-scale queen producers who both ship to Canada. 

If some of these queens are coming from Chile and California I can see how he could have gotten some unsavory queens.
Title: Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
Post by: 2Sox on July 17, 2019, 08:10:49 pm
Maybe the OP did get some hot Saskatraz bees.

If some of these queens are coming from Chile and California I can see how he could have gotten some unsavory queens.

True that.  I posted earlier that this morning, I was going to check that third Saskatraz colony on the oppsosite side of the yard away from the demon splits.  Well, they were as gentle as sweet Italians.  That demon split is apparently *hot*. Glad to be rid of them.
Title: Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
Post by: TheHoneyPump on July 17, 2019, 08:19:23 pm
I do not ever post without specific purpose. In this case I wasn't going to contribute to the discussion at all other than seeing a need to change the direction of first impression that a first reader would get from:
 -Don't.  Pissy, nasty bees.- 
The statement is not supported by the vast majority of experience with the actual SkTz bee.

The OP's experience and concerns were certainly not discounted or discharged either. I specifically acknowledged that uncontrolled outcrossed hybrids can be unpredictable. The -demon split- may be part of the answer.

It is only the rebutting of the all-in-one-bucket stereotyping of the SkTz in the opening statement of the thread which was my focus. My post was well intentioned for the broader audience, respectful, concise, and I make no apologies for it. If it is taken some other way, the suggestion is try re-reading it from the positive perspective intentioned. I never mean offence, nor take any offence. I am a pretty clear straight forward objective type of guy. Feelings do not convey through text on such a forum.

For Information about the SaskaTraz bee goto:   http://www.saskatraz.com/index.htm

...THP
Title: Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
Post by: 2Sox on July 17, 2019, 10:34:53 pm
This is another good thing about beemaster, we have experienced beekeepers here as well as inexperienced beekeepers of all stages from all around the world. Sometimes each of us can misunderstand one another, as well as being misunderstood by one another. But the good news is, we always seem to come to together for the good of one another and the good of the bees. Mr Claude told me a good while ago he was here for the good of the bees as well as the beekeeper.  I am secure in my mind that Mr Claude has nothing but good intentions for the beekeeper as well as the bees. Different teachers have different methods, of teaching and I think we all have, here, the same purposes and goals in mind. To help each other, learn all we can, and make friends along the way. Sometime we each can error from time to time. Especially Ben Framed. I also feel as we get to know one another better we will become more tolerant of one another?s different methods. As long as we keep on as we are going,,  communicating, we should all be fine; helping to make beemaster even better than ever.
Phillip

It's good what you write here.  Every forum is a relation of teaching and learning and each of us switches parts, back and forth. And to that point: As a retired high school teacher of science of 30 years, in the NYC public school system, I've seen many teachers come and go.  One thing always was a constant: Every successful teacher I have ever met always had that special combination of encouragement and kind criticism; a willingness to listen and to want to know; to really want to see how a student sees the world, and to try to understand every angle of a question.  A classroom becomes a dead place as soon as a teacher shows any trace of disdain or superiority - gives even a HINT of contempt for them - students can smell it out better than a scent hound. And they stop listening. And if it goes on too long, the methods of revenge students can take as a result are limitless. No matter how many Phd's or how much experience, this is abject failure for a teacher; AND for a self. And then that teacher is history. If he or she stays and doesn't change their ways, they become miserable, resigned and bitter. I'm very fortunate I learned this lesson early on - and I'd be happy to speak to anyone who is interested how I was able to change through an education based in ethics.  Meanwhile, I loved every minute of my job and when I retired I missed teaching terribly.

So some have already gotten the point of my comments above and to whom I am directing them.

All this to make a point. The bottom line: no matter what a student may ask or say - short of being disrespectful, of course - a teacher always, ALWAYS has to have a HOPE to respect them; their views, experiences, opinions. And students are absolutely desperate to hear kind criticism. Nobody needs to feel foolish, or disparaged, or dismissed for expressing an opinion or stating an observation. What they need is kind criticism - based on the quote below in my signature line - good will. I learned through my own experience that this is not only what makes a good teacher. It makes for a good human being. The desire to have good will makes for self respect and pride.

So HP, nobody expects an apology from you - something you mentioned in your post above. Especially if you don't see anything. But people insist that you have a hope to respect them. I learned it takes a great deal of humility to be self critical.  But it feels so good.

To quote the great American educator, Eli Siegel, "The biggest mistake a person can make, is not to learn from their mistakes."

Title: Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
Post by: van from Arkansas on July 17, 2019, 11:22:42 pm
Please disregard the negative comments made above and in the thread title wrt Saskatraz, they are categorically FALSE.

A commenter is asking the audience to disregard previous post by another beek.  The word FALSE is capitalized.
Two issues here:
1.  Assertive and belittling to ask an audience to disregard another?s post.
2.  False is another way, a single word of implying; YOU LIED.?   False is opposite of truth.  The capitalize places more emphasis.

I believe 2Sox has bees that are darn right mean, even to the point the bees pose a threat.  Further 2Sox is concerned with neighbors, wife, workers.  This individual demonstrates the caring kind of fella I would like to have as a neighbor.  I most certainly would not disregard such a respect post full of empathy for surrounding folks.

Also, I would enjoy having a knowledgeable fella as HP as a neighbor too.

So, now I am probably going to be attacked.  Whatever.  I am stating what I see on paper.  Don?t turn this into a situation in which we take sides.  We are all on the same side.  The way we express our ideas or understanding can cause friction or friendship.
Blessings

Blessings
Title: Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
Post by: Ben Framed on July 18, 2019, 12:48:09 am
Mr Van, The last thing that I want to do is have you think I am at odds with you because I am not. I am going to add some food for thought which might add some understanding to this unfortunate set of circumstances which might shed a little light of hope for all concerned. Hopefully with you permission I am going to quote a couple lines form your last post.

'Two issues here:
1.  Assertive and belittling to ask an audience to disregard another?s post.
2.  False is another way, a single word of implying; YOU LIED.?   False is opposite of truth.  The capitalize places more emphasis.

  Different folks see things different ways depending on where it is they are at particular time and events or communication which they may receive information on circumstances involved.
Example, 
  There may be a dog breeder here who breeds poodles, he or she may have a house full. These dogs may be the sweetest dogs, very best companions, and best producers and far as puppies are concerned, that the breeder has ever had the pleasure of dealing with.  This dog breeder may raise 100 or more of these puppies a year selling many and giving many to their beloved friends. But not only he but many of his, big breeder friends, have the same results as this breeder with the poodle  This dog owner-breeder is convinced that these are the sweetest, most loyal dogs that a person could ever have or want.
  Then comes a civilian dog owner, joins the dog forum, no breeder, just loves dogs. this same person buys a dog form a different breeder, hearing that the poodle is the dog to own!  So the new dog owner has went out and purchased himself a poodle, but not form the first mentioned breeder or his breeder friends. But perhaps another breeder form a different area or perhaps even a different country. So, The dog may or may not be what the second breeder, the seller claims it to be. It may look like a poodle but be as aggressive as a out of control doberman pincher once grown.  Bites his kids, bites his niece upstairs, bites the neighbors.  Wets on the other neighbors classic 67 mustang tires and growled at the owner of the classic car for good measure. So naturally the newer dog owner, goes on the dog forum, says to the whole world, DO NOT BUY A POODLE. THEY ARE KILLERS.
  Mr first breeder reads this and is astonished! He defends his loyal sweet breed, maybe a little harshly, but defends them just the same, shows videos of just how sweet, his friends who also breeds poodles, are. Tries to explain in detail just how there may have been a misunderstanding with the poodle breed.
  Is this not where we are except with bees instead. A total misunderstanding? As the old cartoon charter said trying to stop a feud, "Gentlemen let there be peace" and if I remember right the Hatfields and McCoys on that cartoon both open fired on the speaker who was asking for peace. SO please don't open fire on Mr HP and Mr 2Sox. Gentlemen let there be peace.
 :grin:
Title: Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
Post by: CoolBees on July 18, 2019, 06:53:37 am
Changed my mind. Apologies.
Title: Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
Post by: sawdstmakr on July 18, 2019, 10:07:38 am
Alan, Van and Phillip,
All good points to consider. We all need to be careful on how we write because written word does not convey information the same way as the information we receive in a face to face. Body language tells us a lot more about what the person wants to convey than the written language.
Enough said, let?s get back to the original thread.
Jim Altmiller
Title: Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
Post by: Ben Framed on July 18, 2019, 10:17:29 am
Alan, Van and Phillip,
All good points to consider. We all need to be careful on how we write because written word does not convey information the same way as the information we receive in a face to face. Body language tells us a lot more about what the person wants to convey than the written language.
Enough said, let?s get back to the original thread.
Jim Altmiller

Sounds good to me. Back on track.
Phillip
Title: Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
Post by: Fishing-Nut on July 18, 2019, 11:25:19 am
Opinions are like......well you know......everybody has one. If I had never worked saskatraz bees and was considering it. I would read this thread,  get me some of those jokers and then form my own opinions.  We grew a bunch of mustard greens this year. If I were to make a post about mustard greens it would say STAY AWAY FROM THEM!!! to me they are they are absolutely disgusting.....if my wife made a post about mustard greens she would tell you just how good they are, and that you need to get yourself a big helping of them. You might very well fix a bowl and then decide to go back for seconds.  Then again you might be like me and after a couple of bites they go in the trash can. If you've never had mustard greens, find out for yourself....you might like em.....they just ain't for me.
Title: Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
Post by: 2Sox on July 18, 2019, 11:51:19 am
repeated post in error
Title: Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
Post by: 2Sox on July 18, 2019, 12:01:10 pm
Cool Bees,

I appreciate your reply and view on this. And it's good to know something about your life.  I could talk some about my thirty five years of life before I was a teacher too; where I've been and what I've seen, working in the profit economy - but there is so much one can say covering the 72 years of my life. I sought to make a point using my career as a teacher because I believe it applies widely to life and to our experiences here on the forum.

A classroom becomes a dead place as soon as a teacher shows any trace of disdain or superiority - gives even a HINT of contempt for them - students can smell it out better than a scent hound.

The world is a classroom. This forum is a classroom.  And our *sense of smell* in this regard becomes even more acute as we age. I stand by what I said.

If a person posts here - no matter how much they know or where they've been - they better be darn sure they have a hope to respect the opinions of others and post with a desire that the person is better off through what they write. This is entirely possible - not matter what your "style" or "personality type" is.  It's either respect or contempt.  There's no in between. There is no compromise.

And I'm absolutely certain, there is not one person here that disagrees with this.
Title: Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
Post by: Ben Framed on July 18, 2019, 12:26:24 pm
2Sox has you buddy received the bees? I was wondering how experienced he is in beekeeping?  If they are to hot for him, perhaps you can suggest re-queening  to him if he prefers?
Phillip
Title: Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
Post by: 2Sox on July 18, 2019, 01:02:51 pm
My buddy, Nick, runs an urban beekeeping business all over the city - even gives classes. Right now, he's at EAS in South Carolina. He'll be picking up my Saskatraz hives on Sunday morning.

As a matter of fact, he's picking up some queens from Betterbee - getting one for me too for one of my other splits. I'm not sure if he'll be requeening this demon hive but I have every confidence that he'll know what to do. These bees are going into a cemetery - pretty isolated - but it's his call, of course.

Here's his website:

https://astorapiaries.com
Title: Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
Post by: van from Arkansas on July 18, 2019, 01:29:08 pm
Honeybees:

 Saskatraz, Italian, Carniolean, Caucasian, Buckfast, Russian, New World Carniolean: with various color traits such as black, grey, or more common yellow with black stripes..  The Cordovan is a color trait, recessive and may or may not be applicable to all above but generally attributed as Cordovan Italian.

All above bee types have unique traceable origins.  Each offers specific traits such as varroa resistant, honey production, cold tolerance, small winter colonies, slow build, fast build, continuous large populations, populations directed by flow, gentleness, aggression, comb building, lack of swarming, or combinations thereof.

After a single breeding of the first generation the specific traits can be enhanced, eliminated, or maintained or acquired new traits.  So, what?s my point?  As a queen breeder I consider most bees to be mutts, but mutts with desired traits that reflect a given breed from above.  Due to the fact that queens breed with so many drones maintaining a true breed is difficult.

So I take with a grain of salt when a beek mentions a breed.  To me, if the honey bee
is grey I call it Caucasian, black is Carniolean, yellow black striped is Italian.  Kind of over simplified I realize but there is no registry for honey bees as with mammals i.e. horses, cats, dogs etc.

Also, some honeybees can be maintained rather pure by geological or winter conditions.  These special breeds can be selected and preserved over time but eventually the bees are shipped into other regions and the first generation breeds with local drones and the mutt slowly developes.

The individual beekeepers, that is you and I, monitor their bees and selects for their desired characteristics.

Conclusion:
I use bee breed names with a caviler attitude, as a general means of describing known or given traits such as Russians are known to be hygienic but tend to be more on the defensive side, but yield to the fact a true Russian honeybee may not exist in the USA.
Blessings
Title: Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
Post by: FatherMichael on July 18, 2019, 02:21:24 pm
Changed my mind. Apologies.

Glad I saw it first: Team working on an Idea -- good stuff.

Glad to learn about Saskatraz bees, too.  Looks like a promising strain.
Title: Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
Post by: van from Arkansas on July 18, 2019, 03:12:13 pm
Changed my mind. Apologies.

I?m impressed Mr. Cool, I?m impressed.
Blessings

Question to Father Michael.  Do you mind if I refer to you as Brother Michael?  I see from your pic your a young fella compared to me.  I wish to convey all respects with the word Brother.  Is this acceptable?
Blessings
Title: Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
Post by: FatherMichael on July 18, 2019, 03:37:28 pm

Question to Father Michael.  Do you mind if I refer to you as Brother Michael?  I see from your pic your a young fella compared to me.  I wish to convey all respects with the word Brother.  Is this acceptable?
Blessings

Sure, or just Michael or anything but Bozo -- I don't like being called Bozo.   :wink:
Title: Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
Post by: incognito on July 18, 2019, 04:54:50 pm
For the record, I only started beekeeping 3 months ago with 2 Saskatraz packages so I have limited experience.


The bees initially were easy to work with. Then the apiary got defensive which I hypothesize was partially due to a queenless split. Now things seem to be settling down again. Yesterday I did an invasive inspection that lasted at least 15 minutes without any issue while I was fully suited up. I went back to the hives in my street clothes and feel like I got chased away again. However, that could be due to my loss of trust in them when not wearing a veil.

When the packages were being established I had no problem going into the hives without a veil, smoke or gloves. One of the two hives had a population explosion and my son split his hive, putting the split between the two hives that were within 10 feet of each other. He stopped feeding the mother hive earlier but fed the split. The split did not produce its own queen and the temperament of the apiary seemed to change. Under the supervision of a master beekeeper, he then combined a full brood box from the mother hive with the queenless split. The newspaper between the boxes shifted and within a half hour there was carnage between the reunited bees (all from the same queen). There was hand to hand bee combat on the landing board and piles of dead and dying bees on the ground. We slipped another sheet of paper between the boxes and things calmed down a bit. The moved brood box had little top ventilation and no access to the entrance below. We did not clean up the pile of dead bees.


On subsequent visits to the yard I got stung on the foot when I just walked up to the back of a hive to replenish syrup. Then on another visit last Tuesday I got stung 3 times when I just started smoking under the inner cover of a hive. I can only speculate if that could be attributable to the still queenless hive or that I stopped feeding syrup to that hive the day before during a slowing nectar flow. I do not believe that robbing is going on. Any time I went near the hives without a veil during the past few weeks one or two bees would circle my head and follow me anywhere in the yard. It could be that I was overreacting after getting zapped at least two other times. The bees don't seem to chase other visitors like they chase me. Maybe I get closer than they do. Maybe I have a scent that they don't like. Obviously I do not know which of the three hives the defensive bees were coming from. The master beekeepers in my club warned us that the temperament of the hives would change as we entered the expected dearth in July. Maybe the change in temperament is a result of a combination of factors.

I delayed posting my experiences with the Saskatraz until I did yesterday's visit. We believe that a new queen should have emerged in the queenless hive by yesterday. We never marked the queen in the hive that was split and I did not see the marked queen in the hive I inspected yesterday. We finally got some rain yesterday evening and today after a dry spell. If a new queen is mated, it will be with local drones diluting the Saskatraz bloodline. I'll keep you posted on further observations.
Title: Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
Post by: Ben Framed on July 18, 2019, 05:22:38 pm
incognito
It?s been my experience that bees will be more defensive when the dearth is in play and less defensive when a flow is on. I do not like to wear a full suit either, or for that matter a ventilation jacket. I do however, most of the time wear a veil. I have come to the conclusion, that not suiting up one will receive a sting now and then, weight that against the heat and humidity of the South and grit my teeth and take the stings over the hot protection. There are exceptions to this also.
Phillip
Title: Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
Post by: van from Arkansas on July 18, 2019, 06:36:56 pm
Incognito: for your reference, mid July, my 16 hives full of honey and I can walk around freely without being chased nor stung.  I walk my bees almost everyday.  Hives that produce bees that become aggressive are not tolerated.

Just me, not my advice to you nor others.  I will not tolerate mean bees: bees that chase me, bees that sting me while wearing short sleeves and just watching the bees.

I have visitors all the time visit to look at my bees, I can?t afford stinging bees.  Folks travel 100 miles to see my Alpha hive, obtain queens from my very gentle bees created by my Alpha queen that is 3.5 years old.  She is an incredible incredible queen, Alpha.

I insist on gentle bees, even during a dearth, even full of honey, I don?t care for defensive bees.  During inspections I receive a sting about once a month with veil and jacket for protection.  No full body suit.  An occasional sting during inspections is ok.  Usually my fault as I inadvertently squish a bee.
Blessings

Changing subject: Blessings to you Brother Michael.  A Man of the cloth is my envy, has my trust and is looked up to for advice.  May we break bread and share one day.
Title: Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
Post by: incognito on July 18, 2019, 06:44:39 pm
Oh it was hot here yesterday. Mid 90's is hot for us. But after 3 stings last week and I needed to look carefully in all 4 boxes to see if the hive was honey bound after all that feeding, I wanted to make sure I was moving calmly and slowly to really test their temperament. I was happy with yesterday's interaction. I used a minimal amount of smoke. I may have been too jittery if I was not fully dressed.

The body stings are tolerable. The bees buzzing my ear without a veil gets me unraveled. One got me on the top of the head a few weeks ago, another got me by the ear. They got me 6 or 7 times so far.


Do you guys think a queenless hive is a factor affecting the apiary?
Does crushing them when moving boxes set them off?
Title: Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
Post by: FatherMichael on July 18, 2019, 07:46:35 pm
Changing subject: Blessings to you Brother Michael.  A Man of the cloth is my envy, has my trust and is looked up to for advice.  May we break bread and share one day.

I hope so, Van!

I have children and grandchildren in Arkansas.  Lived there 15 years -- beautiful state.
Title: Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
Post by: van from Arkansas on July 18, 2019, 08:13:38 pm
Do you guys think a queenless hive is a factor affecting the apiary?
Does crushing them when moving boxes set them off?

I have one queenless hive, this does not affect my apiary.  Trying to figure out if I want to raise more queens or not and will determine my actions towards this queenless hive.

Crushing a bee causes release of negative pheromones, this will induce defensive behaviors.  Slow is always good.

I always wear a veil when working bees, BECAUSE  I have a dread of insect in my ear.  So always keep an ear wash handy.  Twice, I have had a Knat get in my ear, no harm but resulted in a fear of bugs in ear as a result.  Plus, a friend who is a professional had to remove a beetle from a lady?s ear.  Again, no permanent damage, but the poor lady was traumatized as the beetle buzzed in attempt to free itself.  The beetle was killed with alcohol wash, prior to removal.  My friend presented me the details in full gore to enhance my already acquired fear of bug in the ear.

Cheers 
Title: Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
Post by: saltybluegrass on July 18, 2019, 08:48:53 pm
I will add my 2 cents
 There is not one person on here holding I?ll feelings.
We all make this work.
I belong to a sports message board- I get called a racist/ a mentally ill person/ or plain dumbazz- sorry Jim-
Al is right - honey pump is (just the facts ma?am)straight to the point  kinda person.
I don?t mind stating my stupid approach as it elicits a wide variety of helpthat others immediately find they need help with.

Al- I started my business with your #2 ingredient- high school dropout great strong back. When I looked around at all my success and growth, I realized I don?t have the want or smarts to change my employees.
Good on you!! I?ll catch up next time around  :cool:
Title: Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
Post by: incognito on July 18, 2019, 11:19:49 pm
Crushing a bee causes release of negative pheromones, this will induce defensive behaviors.
Yeah, I did that before I got a chance to smoke the top of the hive and then 3 of them reacted. That is why I was reluctant to label them as aggressive.

ETA:
It is also likely that I applied too much smoke on more than one occasion.
Title: Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
Post by: 2Sox on July 19, 2019, 11:37:45 am
Incognito: for your reference, mid July, my 16 hives full of honey and I can walk around freely without being chased nor stung.  I walk my bees almost everyday.  Hives that produce bees that become aggressive are not tolerated.

Just me, not my advice to you nor others.  I will not tolerate mean bees: bees that chase me, bees that sting me while wearing short sleeves and just watching the bees.



Van,

I'm curious. What is your solution for mean bees?
Title: Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
Post by: van from Arkansas on July 19, 2019, 12:53:30 pm
Requeen with known gentle stock.
Title: Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
Post by: 2Sox on July 19, 2019, 05:43:26 pm
Requeen with known gentle stock.

10-4
Title: Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
Post by: BAHBEEs on July 19, 2019, 05:57:28 pm
A short experience:

- I run Ruskys.  4 hives now.  I tried a sask package this spring.  I think I released too early and ended up re-queening a month later with my first Italian queen.

Before re-queening:  they where constantly building burr come in inappropriate places.  After a week with the feeder on after package installation I opened up the feeder to find comb heavily built in the feeder.  After getting fruswtrtated after finding the same the next week I pulled it and just stuck the normal covers on.  be danged if they didn't try to fill the top side of the inner cover with comb and stores.

After re-queening:  It seemed to take a very long time for the corner to turn, but now I have  a normal have growing as expected.

Was it the sack nature? Or the early loss of the queen?  unknown, but none of my Russians have ever done anything like that.

BTW how are the Ruskys?  Seem fine to deal with but I don't have a lot of Italian experience...maybe I'm just used to mildly testy!  I also generally don't work bees without protective gear.  Tell you what though.  My original hive, now 2 years old has so far produced 130 lbs. of just spring honey, the bees are always dripping off the porch, and in general it just seems to be monstrously strong.  If the 3 other Russian hives match this one next year, I am going to have a lot of liquid gold!

Not sure if ill try Saskatranz again.

Barry
Title: Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
Post by: van from Arkansas on July 19, 2019, 06:51:01 pm
The only true Saskatraz are in Canada.  Pure Queens were shipped to California but the first generated queens for sale in the USA were breed to local drones and made available for purchase by folks like you and I.  They were called Saskatraz but were breed in California by a large well known queen breeder.  So the USA Saskatraz, breed in California are only 50% pure.

There may be indeed real Saskatraz in the USA  imported directly from Canada, but I have no excess to knowledge of this breeder(s) and no matter because subsequent production of queens in USA would dilute the genetics.
Title: Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
Post by: Ben Framed on July 19, 2019, 07:41:25 pm
The only true Saskatraz are in Canada.  Pure Queens were shipped to California but the first generated queens for sale in the USA were breed to local drones and made available for purchase by folks like you and I.  They were called Saskatraz but were breed in California by a large well known queen breeder.  So the USA Saskatraz, breed in California are only 50% pure.

There may be indeed real Saskatraz in the USA  imported directly from Canada, but I have no excess to knowledge of this breeder(s) and no matter because subsequent production of queens in USA would dilute the genetics.

Good post Mr Van.  I would suppose the way to raise pure ones here,  a person would have to acquire a number of queens, for instance some from TheHoneyPump and some from Ian Steppler for example, raise drones from each, Then II accordingly having a diverse strain of genes but still the same pure breed. Wouldn't this work?
Phillip
Title: Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
Post by: van from Arkansas on July 20, 2019, 10:08:38 am
You bet ya, Mr. Ben, that would work.
Title: Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
Post by: Bushpilot on July 20, 2019, 12:32:24 pm
The only true Saskatraz are in Canada.  Pure Queens were shipped to California but the first generated queens for sale in the USA were breed to local drones and made available for purchase by folks like you and I.  They were called Saskatraz but were breed in California by a large well known queen breeder.  So the USA Saskatraz, breed in California are only 50% pure.

There may be indeed real Saskatraz in the USA  imported directly from Canada, but I have no excess to knowledge of this breeder(s) and no matter because subsequent production of queens in USA would dilute the genetics.
I believe they "flood" the breeding area with the desired drones, improving the chances of a pure line.

Before re-queening:  they where constantly building burr come in inappropriate places.  After a week with the feeder on after package installation I opened up the feeder to find comb heavily built in the feeder.  After getting fruswtrtated after finding the same the next week I pulled it and just stuck the normal covers on.  be danged if they didn't try to fill the top side of the inner cover with comb and stores.
I and others I know have noted the same with the Sask line, they love the burr comb.

Title: Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
Post by: incognito on July 20, 2019, 12:58:37 pm
The only burr comb I have found is on top of the frames under the inner cover.Master beekeeper said those are ladders they build to get to the feed jars above.
Title: Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
Post by: incognito on July 21, 2019, 04:40:55 pm
I got stung again.

I was happy. I walked behind and around the hives, stood next to them and sat down on the ground about 3 feet away from the entrance on the side. I watched them for a good half hour and was pleased that the aggression had gone away.

I saw a bee fly from behind me, inches from my head and I think land. I remark how close that one was. Seconds later, and I do not know if I swatted first or got stung first, but one of them gals gets me again on the forehead.

I may follow Van's practice and get another queen for this hive.

I did notice how a few of the bees were more golden than the others. I guess that makes sense if there are different male genetics in the hive. Which makes me wonder if aggressiveness is inherited from the male or female side.


Title: Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
Post by: van from Arkansas on July 21, 2019, 05:30:19 pm
aggressiveness

Tom, I have read several times, aggressiveness is attributed to the drone genetics.  This was not a bonafide articles and I have not been able to verify the accuracy, so take with a grain of salt.  There are definitely sex link traits but so little is known about honey bee genetics.  Difficult to determine hearsay from fact.

I do have a queen that for 3.5 years has generated Queens that produce gentle bees which raises questions to me, about aggressive genetics being derived from drones.  Go figure??
Blessings
Van
Title: Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
Post by: Ben Framed on July 21, 2019, 05:44:13 pm
aggressiveness

Tom, I have read several times, aggressiveness is attributed to the drone genetics.  This was not a bonafide article and I have not been able to verify the accuracy, so take with a grain of salt.  There are definitely sex link traits but so little is known about honey bee genetics.  Difficult to determine hearsay from fact.

I do have a queen that for 3.5 years has generated Queens that produce gentle bees which raises questions to me, about aggressive genetics being derived from drones.  Go figure??
Blessings
Van

I have read the same Mr Van. From what I understand, this was determined by one soured as Africanized drones were mating with domestic queens, showing the aggressive nature of Africanized. Please don?t ask me to go back and find this as it has been months since I read it and don?t have a clue where to find it. 😊
Phillip.
Title: Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
Post by: sawdstmakr on July 21, 2019, 06:22:55 pm
Incognito,
The aggressive genes do come from the drones. This is why some hives start out calm then suddenly become aggressive and then calm down again. It can be caused by the seaman from one aggressive drone.
Jim Altmiller
Title: Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
Post by: The15thMember on July 21, 2019, 08:14:54 pm
Incognito,
The aggressive genes do come from the drones. This is why some hives start out calm then suddenly become aggressive and then calm down again. It can be caused by the seaman from one aggressive drone.
Jim Altmiller
Fascinating!  I would have figured that since the drones don't seem to display any aggression, since they don't guard the hive or anything like that, that the majority of the aggression would be determined by the female genetics.  But then again, I guess the queens don't guard the hive either.  I wonder if this is what's going on with one of my hives.  Over the course of the past month, they have become quite testy, and there is seemingly nothing different in the hive.  The workers were running around all over the frames during an inspection yesterday, and they may have been defensively balling their queen. 
Title: Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
Post by: sawdstmakr on July 21, 2019, 08:38:20 pm
Member,
I would definitely bee sure to use the 10 minute and 30 second rule for smoking that hive every time you inspect it. This not only helps keep them calm during the inspection but I find that they are much less aggressive during the weeks after compared to not using this technique.
I have one hive out back that was very aggressive. It is now calming down.
Jim Altmiller
Title: Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
Post by: 2Sox on July 21, 2019, 08:51:43 pm
Member,
I would definitely bee sure to use the 10 minute and 30 second rule for smoking that hive every time you inspect it. This not only helps keep them calm during the inspection but I find that they are much less aggressive during the weeks after compared to not using this technique.
I have one hive out back that was very aggressive. It is now calming down.
Jim Altmiller

Jim,

I haven't heard of this 10-30 rule.  Can you explain?
Title: Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
Post by: van from Arkansas on July 21, 2019, 09:54:30 pm
Incognito,
The aggressive genes do come from the drones. This is why some hives start out calm then suddenly become aggressive and then calm down again. It can be caused by the seaman from one aggressive drone.
Jim Altmiller
Fascinating!  I would have figured that since the drones don't seem to display any aggression, since they don't guard the hive or anything like that, that the majority of the aggression would be determined by the female genetics.  But then again, I guess the queens don't guard the hive either.  I wonder if this is what's going on with one of my hives.  Over the course of the past month, they have become quite testy, and there is seemingly nothing different in the hive.  The workers were running around all over the frames during an inspection yesterday, and they may have been defensively balling their queen.

A little bit off subject but genetics is relative to honey bees:
Member, sex linked traits are fascinating.  Known trait: lions and ligers.

Male lions have growth genes.
Females lions have suppression genes, genes that inhibit growth.
Tigers have normal genes for growth.

A male lion crossed to a female tiger yielded a 750 beast call a liger, see YouTube,  bigger than both parents combined.  Contrary: A male tiger breed to a female lion yielded typical size, 300 pounds males.

The discovery was made that male lions have sex linked growth genes.  However, the female lion have sex linked genes that suppress size.  So male lions are average say 350 pounds.

Female Tigers do not have the suppression genes, so when breed by a African male lion the growth genes are not suppressed resulting in kittens that grew to 750 pounds.

I have no comment on the nut job that crossed these cats.

Honey bee genetics are so complex do to the fact the queens have so many boyfriends.

If Jim say the drones carry the aggressive genes, thats good enough for me.  Jim is bonafide.  Lol
Title: Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
Post by: cao on July 21, 2019, 11:17:17 pm
Jim,

I haven't heard of this 10-30 rule.  Can you explain?

I'm not Jim but the 10-30 rule is you smoke your hive then wait 10 minutes.  Smoke them again. wait 30 sec. then open them up.  I have found that those times are pretty flexible.  Basically when you smoke them the first time they get a little upset.  The ten minutes is for them to calm down.  Then when you smoke them  the second time they stay much calmer.  And you can get to work opening them up.
Title: Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
Post by: The15thMember on July 21, 2019, 11:34:18 pm
Member,
I would definitely bee sure to use the 10 minute and 30 second rule for smoking that hive every time you inspect it. This not only helps keep them calm during the inspection but I find that they are much less aggressive during the weeks after compared to not using this technique.
I have one hive out back that was very aggressive. It is now calming down.
Jim Altmiller
I?ll be sure to use that method next time I open them up. They are not horribly aggressive, like flying out at me or anything, but just very agitated at being removed from the hive, especially compared to my other hives, which are very calm. Smoking them just seemed to make it worse once they were amped up, so I?ll definitely use the 10-30 method on them next time. 


A little bit off subject but genetics is relative to honey bees:
Member, sex linked traits are fascinating.  Known trait: lions and ligers.

Male lions have growth genes.
Females lions have suppression genes, genes that inhibit growth.
Tigers have normal genes for growth.

A male lion crossed to a female tiger yielded a 750 beast call a liger, see YouTube,  bigger than both parents combined.  Contrary: A male tiger breed to a female lion yielded typical size, 300 pounds males.

The discovery was made that male lions have sex linked growth genes.  However, the female lion have sex linked genes that suppress size.  So male lions are average say 350 pounds.

Female Tigers do not have the suppression genes, so when breed by a African male lion the growth genes are not suppressed resulting in kittens that grew to 750 pounds.

I have no comment on the nut job that crossed these cats.

Honey bee genetics are so complex do to the fact the queens have so many boyfriends.

If Jim say the drones carry the aggressive genes, thats good enough for me.  Jim is bonafide.  Lol
I always appreciate the extra information, Van.  I have seen pictures of ligers and tigons, truly enormous beasts. I did not know why it was that their size was so extreme, very interesting. The ?nut job? line made me laugh.  :cheesy:
Title: Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
Post by: incognito on July 21, 2019, 11:35:45 pm
Incognito,
The aggressive genes do come from the drones.
That makes sense to me.I was able to sit there untouched for a fair amount of time. Then let us assume that a bee descended from that nasty drone (~1/12 of the workers) comes by and objects.
It is also possible that I bumped into one of the bees I saw walking on the ground. Who knows.
What I do know is that 1/2 of my forehead, from the bridge of my nose to my temple to my eyebrow to my hairline is swelling and itching. Does rubbing and scratching spread the venom?
Title: Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
Post by: Ben Framed on July 21, 2019, 11:45:46 pm
Incognito,
The aggressive genes do come from the drones.
That makes sense to me.I was able to sit there untouched for a fair amount of time. Then let us assume that a bee descended from that nasty drone (~1/12 of the workers) comes by and objects.
It is also possible that I bumped into one of the bees I saw walking on the ground. Who knows.
What I do know is that 1/2 of my forehead, from the bridge of my nose to my temple to my eyebrow to my hairline is swelling and itching. Does rubbing and scratching spread the venom?

Tom, I really don't know if it spreads the venom or not, but back when I use to swell I always suspected that it did.
I was really concerned that I might be allergic when I first started, but thankfully that is seldom the case anymore, the swelling. Hang in there Tom!! As your body gets use to the stings, hopefully for you it will get better, it did for me.
Philliip
Title: Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
Post by: incognito on July 21, 2019, 11:58:37 pm
As your body get use to the stings, hopefully for you it will get better, it did for me.
Philliip

Thanks for the encouragement. It is a minor nuisance.
I hope you are right. My body has always been too good at producing histamines.  LOL
Title: Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
Post by: The15thMember on July 22, 2019, 12:16:59 am
As your body get use to the stings, hopefully for you it will get better, it did for me.
Philliip

Thanks for the encouragement. It is a minor nuisance.
I hope you are right. My body has always been too good at producing histamines.  LOL

You should see my hand right now.  I got stung on Saturday, not by the aggressive hive, but by one worker from a really quiet hive who just flew up and landed on my pinky and stabbed me! She must have had a mean daddy.  :angry:   :cheesy:  I always swell up really bad after a sting, it?s nothing to worry about. What I wonder is if the reaction can be worse from a bee that stings you deliberately, vs a bee that stings in self-defense when you accidentally crush her.  This was the first time I?ve ever had a bee just fly up and stick me for apparently no reason, and this sting hurt way longer than normal.  Coincidence?  I don?t know.
Title: Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
Post by: Ben Framed on July 22, 2019, 12:24:27 am
As your body get use to the stings, hopefully for you it will get better, it did for me.
Philliip

Thanks for the encouragement. It is a minor nuisance.
I hope you are right. My body has always been too good at producing histamines.  LOL

You should see my hand right now.  I got stung on Saturday, not by the aggressive hive, but by one worker from a really quiet hive who just flew up and landed on my pinky and stabbed me! She must have had a mean daddy.  :angry:   :cheesy:  I always swell up really bad after a sting, it?s nothing to worry about. What I wonder is if the reaction can be worse from a bee that stings you deliberately, vs a bee that stings in self-defense when you accidentally crush her.  This was the first time I?ve ever had a bee just fly up and stick me for apparently no reason, and this sting hurt way longer than normal.  Coincidence?  I don?t know.

That is a good, fair question. I have also have noticed that some stings seem to have more "kick" to them than others at other times at a similar area of the body. 
Phillip
Title: Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
Post by: TheHoneyPump on July 22, 2019, 01:52:43 am
Ligers?  Tigons?  These I gotta see!  Off to google and youtube I shall go.
Title: Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
Post by: sawdstmakr on July 22, 2019, 09:52:52 am
Jim,

I haven't heard of this 10-30 rule.  Can you explain?

I'm not Jim but the 10-30 rule is you smoke your hive then wait 10 minutes.  Smoke them again. wait 30 sec. then open them up.  I have found that those times are pretty flexible.  Basically when you smoke them the first time they get a little upset.  The ten minutes is for them to calm down.  Then when you smoke them  the second time they stay much calmer.  And you can get to work opening them up.

On calm hives, changing the times a little isn?t a problem. When you have a hot hive, use your watch.
Jim Altmiller
Title: Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
Post by: Live Oak on July 22, 2019, 12:04:43 pm
I have been reading this thread since it began.  Last season I purchased 80 Saskatraz queens.  I sold 20 of them and installed the remaining 60 in 47 nucs and requeened some 10 frame hives that I felt needed to be.  They are very good queens that immediately got to work brooding up each hive I placed them in and they were very gentle.  They were very economical on sugar syrup and pollen feed compared to my other bees.  They are very Winter hardy.  They were flying in 40 degree weather. 

I have some REALLY hot hives occasionally but none of these were the Saskatraz queened hives.  I have found that if a particular hive is hot or aggressive, give them some time, in almost every case they eventually calm down.  During a dearth, hives are prone to being hot or aggressive due to protecting their resources from being robbed out.  Allowing a hive to become too large will definitely make it aggressive and afford you a hot response more times than not due to having so many guard bees and just abnormally large population.  They should be split BEFORE they get to that point as depending upon the time of season and nectar flow will split themselves via swarming. 

The Saskatraz queens reputation has been a bit hyped up this season as they are fairly new to most beekeepers.  They are very good queens but not "all that and a bag of chips".  In my opinion, the best queens are the queens that YOU rear in your apiary over time that show the best traits.  Grafting your own queens not only produces the best queens but is a lot cheaper. 
Title: Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
Post by: incognito on July 22, 2019, 06:02:11 pm
I had a significant reaction to yesterday's bee sting on the forehead, ultimately receiving a Solu Medrol injection today. More information on that will be posted in the bee sting topic. I'll resist posting the selfies.

Something or somethings need to change for me including some or all of the following (in no particular order):

I am not concluding that the Saskatraz queen line is the issue, maybe - maybe not. Maybe my queen has some bad seeds in her from one of the +/- 15 drones that she mated with (up to 60 drones according to a video I posted a link to last night). Even if 1 in 100, or 1 in 500, or 1 in 10,000 of her offspring are aggressive; I am undecided if I should take that risk even when considering the other factors listed above.

I also can not prove which of three hives the aggressive bees come from, it may not have been the hive I was closest to.

If I were to replace the queen(s), I would want the best chance of getting mated queens proven to have the Saskatraz characteristics. A premium price for a queen and frequent requeening may be less than the cost of further medical treatment, or worse. So lets discuss that point in this topic and the other factors in other topics. Send me a personal message, post a link, or let's start a new topic if you want to suggest a different strain, priorities being gentleness, overwintering in a colder climate and mite resistance. I do not want to derail this topic. Honey production is a lower priority for this backyard beekeeper. I'm sure there are a multitude of experiences and strong opinions regarding preferred genetics.

Where can I get a mated queen with the best chances of getting the gentle Saskatraz characteristic?
When would be an acceptable time to requeen?


Title: Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
Post by: paus on July 22, 2019, 06:15:57 pm
On a local honey bee post the subject came up; Are defensive hives better honey producers than gentle bees.  What is the concensis?
Title: Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
Post by: Oldbeavo on July 22, 2019, 06:25:10 pm
I don't care if it is true, I will go without a bit of honey rather than spend a day working defensive / nasty bees. Plus I don't have time to use the 10/30 rule, even though it does work.
Spending a day on the bees with none on my veil is a pleasure.
Title: Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
Post by: FatherMichael on July 22, 2019, 09:32:37 pm
I had a significant reaction to yesterday's bee sting on the forehead, ultimately receiving a Solu Medrol injection today. More information on that will be posted in the bee sting topic. I'll resist posting the selfies.

Something or somethings need to change for me including some or all of the following (in no particular order):
  • My behavior and / or technique;
  • My protective gear;
  • Continuing with the hobby;
  • Genetics of the hive.

So sorry that you had such a bad reaction, incognito.  :-(

I hope that you do not give up, though.

I'd certainly wear protective gear.  In college I did not wear any protection for my own bees but was once asked to harvest another person's hive.  Got stung twelve times before retreating to the truck to put on gear.  They were banging into the window, trying to get to me!

Doing inspections now I wear gear.  Why suffer needlessly, right?  Though my hive is very gentle, they get irritated when I get deep into their brood chamber.  The impression I get with this hive is that they are protective of the queen.  Others with more experience may have an opinion about that.

I'm feeding now between flows, Mesquite to Cotton, because this is a first season build-up situation.  So, getting into the topmost super to change out quart feeders requires no protection.  I spray water to clear out a place for the feeder among the bees.  The guard bees are not up there.

I do not like manipulating hives very often, once every other week at the most.  Plus, I try to put everything back as I found it.  What if someone came into your house and rearranged the furniture and your cabinets?  What if they took half your children?  What if they took your mother!  Yikes!

My plan is to wean myself from the old HIVE AND HONEYBEE way to the more natural way described by Doctors Seely and Sharashkin.

I'm very happy with the Italians that Gary sold me at The Bee Place, San Antonio.  Next spring I want to expand with some of his Texan feral bees, which I will put in the country and not in my back yard.

Dr. Seely tells us that the bees now surviving in the wild in Upstate New York have some African genes.

Horses, like bees, have quirky personality traits.  Both are magnificent creatures.  Maybe a little uncertainty is the price we pay for being part of their wonderful lives?
Title: Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
Post by: FatherMichael on July 22, 2019, 09:45:52 pm
Sorry for the double post.

???
Title: Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
Post by: The15thMember on July 22, 2019, 09:53:06 pm
Sorry about the bad reaction.  I can be scary when something like that is happening to your body.  I got stung several times in one afternoon once, and that evening had a high fever as a result of the stings.  It hasn't happened to me since, but it was definitely a little nerve-wracking.
 

I saw a bee fly from behind me, inches from my head and I think land. I remark how close that one was. Seconds later, and I do not know if I swatted first or got stung first, but one of them gals gets me again on the forehead.

This statement of yours stood out to me.  Let me first off say, that I agree 100% with what Van and other have mentioned, you should be able to walk near your hives in the bee yard without protection and not get targeted, IMO.  But I feel like displaying signs of fear, like swatting and moving suddenly, can sometimes set the bees on edge.  My mom is a little nervous up near the hives, and I feel like the bees seem to fly closer to her sometimes.  I don't know if they can sense fear, like pheromone-wise, or not, but it seems to me like sometimes bees target people more who are acting more agitated about their presence.  Just what I've witnessed. 

I would also mention that when you are in the bee yard unprotected, it's a good idea to keep out of the bees' flight path too and from the hive.  The guard bees tend to notice if someone or something is hanging around the entrance, whereas if you keep the sides and back of the hives, they will go about their business without even noticing you are there.  Not sure where you were standing in relation to the hives when you were stung, so maybe that was not the issue here.   

One more thing I'd like to mention is that I feel like the swelling with this sting was a big deal because it was on your face.  Never good to have any sort of medical issues around the eyes, or anything like that, definitely serious in this case.  But if you had been stung on, say, your arm, the swelling would not have been as big of a deal, even if it did swell a lot, because swelling on your arm wouldn't endanger any vital organs like your eyes or be at risk of cutting off your breathing.  I think it's probably a good sign that you had no systemic reaction, like hives or swelling of the throat, which means you probably are not allergic.  I certainly do not want to downplay the situation you had with this sting, but all I'm saying is that your reaction doesn't seem that abnormal to me, and I think that's a good sign.  I too wish you luck and hope the incident hasn't shaken you too badly.   
Title: Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
Post by: Ben Framed on July 22, 2019, 10:02:56 pm
Once again, you have posted a good post Member.
Title: Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
Post by: van from Arkansas on July 22, 2019, 10:58:45 pm
Ligers?  Tigons?  These I gotta see!  Off to google and youtube I shall go.

[ You are not allowed to view attachments ]
660 pounds
Here ya are, HP.
Title: Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
Post by: Ben Framed on July 22, 2019, 11:00:04 pm
Ligers?  Tigons?  These I gotta see!  Off to google and youtube I shall go.

Here ya are, HP.

Goodness, that thing is huge!!! Thanks for posting!!!
Title: Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
Post by: incognito on July 23, 2019, 01:22:36 am
1 - But I feel like displaying signs of fear, like swatting and moving suddenly, can sometimes set the bees on edge.

2 - Not sure where you were standing in relation to the hives when you were stung, so maybe that was not the issue here.   
3 - Never good to have any sort of medical issues around the eyes, or anything like that, definitely serious in this case.  But if you had been stung on, say, your arm, the swelling would not have been as big of a deal, even if it did swell a lot, because swelling on your arm wouldn't endanger any vital organs like your eyes or be at risk of cutting off your breathing.   
1 - I concur, and admit that I may have started the chain reaction or I may have reacted to the fast attack.  I will always wear at least a veil and top of some type until we reestablish mutual trust.

2 - Sitting cross legged on the floor about 3 feet from the right side of the hive adjacent to the entrance. Apparently in the flight path of at least one that passed on my right side. I was there for at least a 1/2 hour feeling good about the progress of reestablishing mutual trust before the encounter. I watched a few bees crawling in the grass. It is possible that I inadvertently threatened one if I shifted my position.


3 - June 10th & 18th cataract surgery, bloodshot and stinging eyes increased my concern. The recent swelling in my index finger took 9 days to go away on its own - I was concerned about that one and the one on my abdomen that swelled to the circumference of a tennis ball. Another on the pad of my thumb did not swell at all. All three of those stings were received simultaneously.


I was tested by an allergist about 35 years ago. He stopped the test because I reacted quickly to everything to one degree or another. I react to sunlight - grossly swollen skin and itching, not sunburn. My dermatologist never saw that in her practice, she appreciated the demonstration. I have to rebuild the tolerance to the sun every spring. Those who know my allergy history questioned my sanity when they found out I was becoming a beekeeper.


Anaphylaxis is a serious, life-threatening allergic reaction. The most common anaphylactic reactions are to foods, insect stings, medications and latex. If you are allergic to a substance, your immune system overreacts to this allergen by releasing chemicals that cause allergy symptoms. Yeah - that is how I roll.


While the reaction was not systemic, even a localized reaction could go from bad to worse so it needed to be treated. One can go from having local reactions to systemic reactions without warning.
Title: Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
Post by: FatherMichael on July 23, 2019, 10:19:21 am
Yikes, incognito! :shocked:
Title: Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
Post by: van from Arkansas on July 23, 2019, 10:56:10 am
[ You are not allowed to view attachments ]

Yep, from a single bee sting.  I have developed an autoimmune disease, idiopathic urticaria, Latin name for hives.  I react with the wind.  That is, I locally react or a sting results in a minor issue.  I never know, nor do I worry.  I do not have nor want an epipen.
Van
Title: Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
Post by: van from Arkansas on July 23, 2019, 11:18:52 am
Last June:  sting puncture can be seen in the middle of the red swollen area.  The under side of arm swelled the most.. see next photo.
[ You are not allowed to view attachments ]
Title: Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
Post by: van from Arkansas on July 23, 2019, 11:20:31 am
[ You are not allowed to view attachments ]

Although the sting was on top of the arm, the underside swelled the most... go figure??

No worries, I can control with prednisone, a steroid.  I just hate taking the stuff.
Title: Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
Post by: 2Sox on July 23, 2019, 11:58:17 am
FYI: Olivarez was very concerned about my situation and Kindly refunded my money for that *hot* queen. Most important, they became aware.

I know HP and others have had great success with Saskatraz. I wish them the best.  I'll stick with Italians and Carniolans - or local. I learned recently that Betterbee  - relatively close by - has a program breeding local stock.  I'm going to give those queens a try.
Title: Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
Post by: Ben Framed on July 23, 2019, 10:53:11 pm
Mr Van, Im concerned. Those sting swellings look extreme! How often, on average, would you estimate that you receive stings? I realize you more than likely suit up well.
Title: Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
Post by: FatherMichael on July 24, 2019, 02:31:46 am
Goodness, Van!

Those stings look awful! :sad:
Title: Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
Post by: van from Arkansas on July 24, 2019, 07:10:27 pm
Mr Van, Im concerned. Those sting swellings look extreme! How often, on average, would you estimate that you receive stings? I realize you more than likely suit up well.

Good afternoon Mr. Ben, Phil.  I obtain a sting about once a month.

However today was the day for another sting. I received a sting today on my left forearm.  I was ready as you explained in a previous post, Phil: Benadryl and Zantac, both histamine blockers.  I took both within 5 minutes of being stung and boy let me tell you what a difference.  I have a red area about 2 square inches, that is all.

I wear gloves and head gear.  The bee climbed up my gloves until she found bare skin and landed a stinger at the base of my glove and buried the stinger in my flesh.

What a relief taking your over the counter meds: just 2 inches red instead of half my arm being swollen as pictured.

So, Mr. Ben Framed, I truly appreciate you taking the time to post the remedy in a previous post, Benadryl and Zantac taken together for bee sting.  What a relief, made a huge difference heading your advice for meds; now only a small insignificant red spot is what I experienced this day.
Thank you, Phil. Thank you, Phil.  Thank you, Phil.  Thank you, Phil.  Thank you, Phil.  Thank you, Phil.
Well you get the idea.  Phil, may you receive Blessings as you have Blessed others.
Van
Title: Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
Post by: Ben Framed on July 24, 2019, 11:18:43 pm
You are very welcome Mr Van. I am happy that this helped you. I will have to look this up again and give credit to the person that recommended this here at beemaster from earlier days here. I wish I could remember her name, but she is a Nurse Practitioner which worked at the ER. The ER is where she leaned this.  My experience was after doing the above along with Jims recommendations of Benadryl cream mixed with hydro cortisone cream. My problems soon subsided, almost completely, after doing cutouts and receiving stings regularly. Before doing all the above, I was afraid that I would have to give up the idea of beekeeping.  I broke my rule today of using a veil. My bees are very gentle but, yes sir, I did receive a sting right over my left eye. Before upon receiving such a sting, I would have looked like a China-man or one of my friends form the orient, for at least a couple days after such a sting, now I am fortunate enough to take or do nothing, only experiencing a small welp and that has subsided. That was about 3 hours ago.  God Bless you Mr Van. Again, I am very happy for you sir.
 :grin: :happy:
Phillip
Title: Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
Post by: Troutdog on August 06, 2019, 06:14:03 am
My my my this conversation turned

When I have a hot hive I feed them sugar water and hive them a small pollen patty. Then evaluate.
Often times local available forage can make em loco.

Its not the snitcatraz bees its other stuff. Non locally adaptive stock has some growing pains.

Small neighborhood chem lawn etc could be your issue as well.

The variables are many
Buy a girl a drink and see what happens.



Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
Post by: incognito on August 08, 2019, 09:27:20 am
I did an inspection of my hot hive yesterday.
The bees did a good job filling with honey the second super I added, mainly during a dearth. I may have to add a third super soon.
The top super is probably mostly stored syrup. The second super is most likely honey.

As for their behavior. Lots of flights going on. The bees on the top of the frames in the top super seemed lethargic. Just hanging out.

When I got to the top brood box they started popping my veil after I took out a frame or two so I exited. I saw great patterns, capped brood, some drone brood, eggs and larvae. Being that there was really nothing more to look for I got out. I did not bother looking in the bottom brood box.

Then I mowed the lawn around the hives fully suited. It was hot. I got chased. I am not sure if I got stung on my back through the suit and on my thumb through a glove. If I did, I had no reaction to either.
Title: Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
Post by: FatherMichael on August 08, 2019, 11:23:54 am
Glad things went better this time, Tom.
Title: Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
Post by: 2Sox on August 08, 2019, 12:35:32 pm
When I have a hot hive I feed them sugar water and hive them a small pollen patty. Then evaluate.
Often times local available forage can make em loco.

Its not the snitcatraz bees its other stuff. Non locally adaptive stock has some growing pains.

Small neighborhood chem lawn etc could be your issue as well.

The variables are many
Buy a girl a drink and see what happens.

Considering all the information here, it seems the Saskatraz line fits many beekeeper's goals. Apparently, my original statement was incorrect - especially with my small sample size. What happened with my hive, I don't know. Environment? Temporary stressors? Crappy breeding queen? My personality?  I'm done with them. I'll never keep them in my yard.

I checked in with my friend, Nick, who settled them with some of his hives in Greenwood Cemetery.  He said he's been walking around with no veil occasionally, and it's peace on Earth.  Go figure.

Oh.  He's re queening anyway.
Title: Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
Post by: incognito on August 16, 2019, 07:57:20 pm
They got me again!


This time on the chin through my veil when I was looking down while separating the brood nest. I need to follow Jim's smoking routine closer. Next time I'll use a stop watch to get the timing right.

Benadryl, Zyrtec and ice and its still swelling up. I can't wait to see what it looks like tomorrow morning.
Edited to add: I should have taken one or the other, not both.


Title: Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
Post by: Ben Framed on August 16, 2019, 08:12:03 pm
They got me again!


This time on the chin through my veil when I was looking down while separating the brood nest. I need to follow Jim's smoking routine closer. Next time I'll use a stop watch to get the timing right.

Benadryl, Zyrtec and ice and its still swelling up. I can't wait to see what it looks like tomorrow morning.

Zantac & Benadryl did the trick for me, back when I use to swell. I?m not saying Zyrtec won't work, I have never tried that combo. Anyone else?
Phillip
Title: Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
Post by: 2Sox on August 16, 2019, 08:20:02 pm
Clobetasol cream. Prescription. The sooner it?s applied the better it works. I have it in the pocket of my gear.
Title: Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
Post by: van from Arkansas on August 16, 2019, 08:37:00 pm
I use Zantac and Benadryl for stings with good results.  The pics above are without the meds.
Van
Title: Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
Post by: 2Sox on August 16, 2019, 09:54:14 pm
Clobetasol cream. Prescription. The sooner it?s applied the better it works. I have it in the pocket of my gear.

It?s a steroid on steroids.
Title: Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
Post by: incognito on August 16, 2019, 10:02:02 pm
Clobetasol cream. Prescription. The sooner it?s applied the better it works. I have it in the pocket of my gear.
WebMD says do not apply to the face.

How to use Clobetasol PROPIONATE GelUse this medication (https://www.webmd.com/drugs/index-drugs.aspx) on the skin (https://www.webmd.com/skin-problems-and-treatments/picture-of-the-skin) only. Do not use it on the face, groin, or underarms unless directed to do so by your doctor.
Wash and dry your hands before using. Clean and dry the affected area. Apply a thin film of medication to the affected area and gently rub in, usually 2 times daily or as directed by your doctor. Do not bandage, cover, or wrap the area unless directed to do so by your doctor. If used in the diaper area on an infant (https://www.webmd.com/parenting/baby/default.htm), do not use tight-fitting diapers or plastic pants.
After applying the medication, wash your hands (https://www.webmd.com/cold-and-flu/cold-guide/cold-prevention-hand-washing) unless you are using this medication to treat the hands. When applying this medication near the eyes (https://www.webmd.com/eye-health/picture-of-the-eyes), avoid getting it in the eyes (https://www.webmd.com/eye-health/ss/slideshow-eye-conditions-overview) because this may worsen or cause glaucoma (https://www.webmd.com/eye-health/glaucoma-eyes). Also, avoid getting this medication in the nose or mouth (https://www.webmd.com/oral-health/anatomy-of-the-mouth). If you get the medication in these areas, rinse with plenty of water.
Title: Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
Post by: 2Sox on August 16, 2019, 10:44:28 pm
Clobetasol cream. Prescription. The sooner it?s applied the better it works. I have it in the pocket of my gear.
WebMD says do not apply to the face.
 


WebMD is cool. My physician directs to apply it anywhere you get a sting - or even a mosquito bite. Anywhere.  I, my wife, my cutout assistants have been doing this for years. Anywhere we get a sting or bee bite. Incredible immediate relief. And we?re still standing.
Title: Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
Post by: Anonimo22 on August 23, 2019, 01:00:08 am
I've heard good things about Saskatraz from people. So its strange to see this.

I wonder if maybe it was just a fluke or that particular supplier? I just mean I wonder what went wrong?

There are videos on youtube of lots of Saskatraz coveting too and maybe that's why they are so popular right now. They are supposed to have some Russian genes in them I think. And maybe that's where the defensiveness is coming from.
Title: Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
Post by: TheHoneyPump on September 10, 2019, 03:15:18 pm
Watch this:

https://youtu.be/YFgcXnGq81I
Title: Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
Post by: van from Arkansas on September 10, 2019, 05:10:38 pm
Good video HP.

Genetics of honey bees is compounded by the fact the queens breeds with so many drones.

An example of what can go wrong:  a queen breeds with 10 drones and one of the ten drones has genetics for mean or defensive behavior.  Thus the queen produces a hive of 20,000 bees and out of that 20,000, there are 2,000 bees that are mean as conceived by one undesirable drone.

However, the entire hive gets labeled as defensive or mean.

Genetics of multiple drones can also work in our favor.  What if one of the drones codes for hygienic, mite riddance behavior.  Walla!!!

Genetics works in all directions, but can be skewed in favor of productive bees as shown in the video.
Title: Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
Post by: Ben Framed on September 11, 2019, 10:22:50 pm
Watch this:

https://youtu.be/YFgcXnGq81I

Awesome video!!
Title: Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
Post by: incognito on September 22, 2019, 11:31:15 pm
Update:
I did an extensive hive inspection today, making my pre-winter assessment. This time I used hardly any smoke and the bees seemed to appreciate it. Or maybe I'm getting better at ignoring them as they fly around my veil.

Like I said in an earlier post, my technique could be part of my issues. I have not gotten stung in my last several visits.
Title: Re: Are you thinking of getting Saskatraz queens?
Post by: Clcotner on September 27, 2019, 03:25:16 am
I have 2 hives of Saskatraz from Oliverez.  I have two other hives of local mutts.   The Saskatraz are much more docile than my other bees.    I don't usually have to smoke them when I work around the hives.