Beemaster's International Beekeeping Forum

BEEKEEPING LEARNING CENTER => DISEASE & PEST CONTROL => Topic started by: Bob Wilson on July 16, 2019, 11:44:33 am

Title: Mason jar external beetle trap
Post by: Bob Wilson on July 16, 2019, 11:44:33 am
Has anyone tried this kind of small beetle trap? I am thinking of adding some under my long lang which stands on four legs.
A hole is cut in the bottom board to the size of a mason jar lid, which is tacked/glued in place, flush with the bottom surface. Hardware cloth covers the top of the jar which is screwed up under the hive into the lid. The bees chase the beetles, the beetle seek refuge through the screen, and they fall and drown in the oil. The outside of the jar is spray painted enamel black, keeping the interior dark. Would 3 or 4 of these installed under the 4 corners of my 4 foot long hive make a difference?
Would the bees propolize the hardware cloth? Do they propolize screen bottom boards?
Title: Re: Mason jar external beetle trap
Post by: sawdstmakr on July 16, 2019, 01:48:00 pm
Bob,
Bees rarely propalize the bottom screen boards. 
I suspect this will work almost as well as a screen bottom board with an oil tray.
Jim Altmiller
Title: Re: Mason jar external beetle trap
Post by: Bob Wilson on July 16, 2019, 02:23:55 pm
That was the big question for me, Jim. Would they propolize the hardware cloth and seal up the jar?
I think I will build a second long lang with these jar traps built into place, and set it next to my first hive. Then transfer my bees over to it. Then I can add the traps to my empty first hive, and bring it back out again next spring to lure another swarm.
Title: Re: Mason jar external beetle trap
Post by: sawdstmakr on July 16, 2019, 07:11:43 pm
Sounds good.
I was over at Bobsim?s House. He has had a severe problem with SHBs. Lost one hive and another had frames destroyed by them. He was rebuilding his empty top bar hive to add a hardware cloth bottom and a tray to put diatomaceous earth in it. Like you he was working to redo all three hives.
Jim Altmiller
Title: Re: Mason jar external beetle trap
Post by: Ben Framed on July 19, 2019, 12:03:57 am
Bob, Joe May USE to use this method but does no longer. I ask him about this but I can?t remember the reason that he gave me for abandoning this use.
Phillip
Title: Re: Mason jar external beetle trap
Post by: Bob Wilson on July 21, 2019, 04:56:21 pm
Joe who? I would like to know.
Title: Re: Mason jar external beetle trap
Post by: Ben Framed on July 21, 2019, 04:59:22 pm
Joe who? I would like to know.

Bob, JOE MAY  Use to use this method but does no longer. I ask him about this but I can?t remember the reason that he gave me for abandoning this use.
Phillip

Joe May 😁.  Joe is a YouTube beeman and teaches. (Shares beekeeping methods). Bob it seems he told my that the jars would not work well with his hive stands but I can?t remember for sure. Once he told me he had scrapped this method, I discarded it and never gave it another thought.
Phillip
Title: Re: Mason jar external beetle trap
Post by: Joe D on July 23, 2019, 12:31:22 am
Bob, I used to have a TBH that I put #8 hardware cloth, across the bottom, and had a closed compartment under it with a pan I made with water with a cheap dishwashing liquid mixed in.  In the summer you had to check the water level because of evaporation. When you get several dead shb you can  dump them out and refill. Have it where the bees can't get into it.  It's not as hard to clean as with the oil.  I had it running completely under the hive.

Good Luck to you and your bees,

Joe D
Title: Re: Mason jar external beetle trap
Post by: Bob Wilson on July 23, 2019, 04:51:47 pm
Joe,
Used to? Do you do something better now with your hives?
I was planning on having an extra jar, unscrewing one jar and pouring its oil through a small sieve into that jar and screwing the extra jar into the former's position. One by one I would strain and trade out each jar with the former. No water. No soap. Just 2 inches of mineral oil in a glass jelly jar. (Preferably, a wide mouth jelly jar)
Title: Re: Mason jar external beetle trap
Post by: Bob Wilson on July 26, 2019, 01:31:37 pm
I bought some #7 hardware cloth from funnybugbees.com for a little over $3 a sqft. I bought 3 sqft for $10 and change, but the shipping cost almost twice the cost of the product, even after they adjusted their calculations. Now I just need to build this hive with these mason jar traps.
Title: Re: Mason jar external beetle trap
Post by: cao on July 26, 2019, 10:36:08 pm
I had thought about doing this but the jars would stick down too far and would interfere with the stands I have them on.  I hope they work out for you.
Title: Re: Mason jar external beetle trap
Post by: bobsim on July 28, 2019, 07:12:51 am
  Hi Bob'

  As sawdstmakr mentioned I'm having quite the time with the little black demon beetles. This is my 6th year and the first time I've had to deal with them.

  I've installed drawers under 1/8" hardware cloth with diatomaceous earth in them and it's working well. I've been checking them daily and the count is finally getting below 20 a day.

  I was surprised to find how hard it is to get #8 hardware cloth these days but the local Ace hardware store did order me a roll. The cost was $17 for a 3' x 5' roll.

  Sorry to hear about you troubles with the little buggers but hey, you're not alone.
Title: Re: Mason jar external beetle trap
Post by: bobsim on July 28, 2019, 07:22:39 am
  I just noticed you're in GA. If Darien is close to you there's an awesome hardware store there you might check if you're still looking for #8 cloth. It's a block or so away from the boat ramp and it's one of those places you find stuff you forgot you need.
Title: Re: Mason jar external beetle trap
Post by: Ben Framed on July 28, 2019, 11:32:51 am
  I just noticed you're in GA. If Darien is close to you there's an awesome hardware store there you might check if you're still looking for #8 cloth. It's a block or so away from the boat ramp and it's one of those places you find stuff you forgot you need.

@bobsim
Number 8 is hard to find here in North Ms also as stated. I found some in an old fashioned hardware store in Memphis. And like you I have the screened bottom boards with a tray, except I use oil, but, I am thinking of going to the diatomaceous earth also. As I stated before Joe May left the jar traps behind because of the inconvenience of placement of his hives on hive stands.  Perhaps Bobll has a plan to work around this inconvenience.

@Bobll
I really hope this works out for you. Let us know the results. Thanks, Phillip
Title: Re: Mason jar external beetle trap
Post by: Bob Wilson on September 08, 2019, 05:23:05 pm
Finally getting around to building another long hive, this one with mason jar SHB traps. The jar (with oil in the bottom) will screw upward into the bottom of the hive. The hole will be covered with #7 hardware cloth.
I hope to finish this week. By the way, is it OK to transfer all the frames from the old to the new hive? Since there is brood, the colony won't abscond, will it?
Title: Re: Mason jar external beetle trap
Post by: sawdstmakr on September 08, 2019, 05:49:44 pm
Bobil,
I do a lot of cutouts. Bees do not like to abandon brood. Just move them into the new box in the same order they were in the old hive and put it in the same location.
Jim Altmiller
Title: Re: Mason jar external beetle trap
Post by: Bob Wilson on September 08, 2019, 11:29:22 pm
Thanks, Jim. That's why I really like this forum. I will post pictures and SHB results after I complete it.
Title: Re: Mason jar external beetle trap
Post by: Joe D on September 12, 2019, 02:51:53 am
Bob, sorry I don't get on here very much, but the reason I quit using the pan in the TB hive, I have no proof but I think a man with ATT was going to run a telephone line close to my hives, this one was the closest and was sprayed all bees were dead in hive or on ground next to hive.  the next year a swarm moved in and within 2 days they were dead also.  I did away with the hive.  Like Jim said I never had trouble with the bees messing with the hardware cloth, # 8.    If I got a real bad case of shb's  I have in the past put a CD case or 2 in the hive.  put some butter flavored Crisco in the center, get some combat roach poison, it comes in a syringe, phimpronil probably  spelled wrong.  been a long time since I used it, but can help if they get bad.  You put a small line of it around the dab of Crisco.  The shbs love the Crisco will get in go through the roach poison and will die.  I did put a few extra holes in the side of the case with a hot ice pick. not big enough for a bee.  I just done this if had lots of shbs, until they were manageable.

Good luck to you and your bees,

Joe D
Title: Re: Mason jar external beetle trap
Post by: Bob Wilson on September 20, 2019, 09:36:11 pm
Here are some pictures of the mason jar SHB traps. There are 4 traps, one in each corner of the hive.
1. Cut a hole the size of the jar lid in the bottom corner of the hive. (Keep a jar screwed in the lid to keep it true round as you trace the hole.) I used a skill saw, then a dremel tool.
2. Wood glue the jar rim (lid) so it is flush with the hive bottom board. I also added a few staples on the inside to secure it well.
3. Wood putty the flush top so that all cracks are sealed.
4. Place #7 hardware cloth over each hole, and staple to the hive bottom.
5. Paint the exterior of the jars black to block out light inside the hive.
6. Add a half inch of mineral oil to the bottom of each jar.

We shall see how it works.
Title: Re: Mason jar external beetle trap
Post by: sawdstmakr on September 21, 2019, 10:28:03 pm
I?ll bet you kill a lot of SHBs with it.
Jim Altmiller
Title: Re: Mason jar external beetle trap
Post by: Bob Wilson on September 22, 2019, 06:26:18 pm
Jim. The crazy thing is that when I moved all the frames into the new box, I saw just 1 or 2 beetles, when there were lots the week before. Almost like they kicked them out.
Title: Re: Mason jar external beetle trap
Post by: Ben Framed on September 23, 2019, 07:47:52 am
Jim. The crazy thing is that when I moved all the frames into the new box, I saw just 1 or 2 beetles, when there were lots the week before. Almost like they kicked them out.

This may not be good, did you look very closely in your empty comb. The beetles might have already escaped into your hive area. Most likely this is where you will find them. You may see one or two at first appearing and disappearing as they move up and down and as you keep observing, you realize your empty comb is infested. Ask me how I know. I learned this last season.
Title: Re: Mason jar external beetle trap
Post by: Ben Framed on September 23, 2019, 07:52:53 am
Quoting Joe D
?Bob, sorry I don't get on here very much, but the reason I quit using the pan in the TB hive, I have no proof but I think a man with ATT was going to run a telephone line close to my hives, this one was the closest and was sprayed all bees were dead in hive or on ground next to hive.  the next year a swarm moved in and within 2 days they were dead also.  I did away with the hive.  Like Jim said I never had trouble with the bees messing with the hardware cloth, # 8.    If I got a real bad case of shb's  I have in the past put a CD case or 2 in the hive.  put some butter flavored Crisco in the center, get some combat roach poison, it comes in a syringe, phimpronil probably  spelled wrong.  been a long time since I used it, but can help if they get bad.  You put a small line of it around the dab of Crisco.  The shbs love the Crisco will get in go through the roach poison and will die.  I did put a few extra holes in the side of the case with a hot ice pick. not big enough for a bee.  I just done this if had lots of shbs, until they were manageable.
Good luck to you and your bees,
Joe D?

Thanks Joe for taking the time of your in-depth post.
Phillip
Title: Re: Mason jar external beetle trap
Post by: Seeb on May 17, 2020, 01:55:29 pm
Thanks for posting this Bob - I like it
Title: Re: Mason jar external beetle trap
Post by: KellyBeeFriendly on May 20, 2020, 10:04:16 am
Bob - just posted this link on another thread. Aussie agrifutures funded this dude to do a study of bait traps for shb. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YHUmK5SlzXU

Thought it was interesting. I?d prefer to trap them outside the Hive first. However this does look pretty cool if you have them in your hive!

If it?s stupid and works it ain?t stupid. Don?t let anyone tell you different! Love to hear your experience and how it works for you :-)
Title: Re: Mason jar external beetle trap
Post by: Bob Wilson on May 20, 2020, 06:02:51 pm
Thanks Kelly.
The jar traps seemed to work better than the paper towel/ swiffer traps, which I will also add later in the beetle season.
I really don't like the idea of putting poison inside my hives, so I avoid the CD bait traps.
I also got rid of my yard's compost pile, with all our fruit scraps from the kitchen. I read that really draws the beetles too.
I wonder about lure traps, whether for beetles of yellowjackets. It seems to me that that broadcasting the scent will draw them from miles around. I wonder if it might not be better to just kill the ones that get into the hive, rather than try to police a several mile square area.
It is a concept and practice I am still experimenting with.
Title: Re: Mason jar external beetle trap
Post by: KellyBeeFriendly on May 21, 2020, 04:43:51 am
Bob, I also have issue with the poison- but found a CD trap arrangement which had the bait in center and Diatomaceous earth (DE) around the bait. That one I will experiment with I think as the new AZ configuration no has made the beetle blaster redundant (at at least more precarious). I have a slatted bottom board in the new configuration that has a Kmart baking tray under each hive. I used these last year too under the nuplas langs. I used oil and this year will try DE, as the rotting pollen and bugs in oil was just gross. So I?ll report back - DE might be a reusable and less messy option for your jars too!
Title: Re: Mason jar external beetle trap
Post by: Bob Wilson on May 21, 2020, 04:26:06 pm
Yes. Let me know about how the diomtoaceous earth works for you. The oil does get nasty and fermented. I wonder if the earth is course or super fine? Will the beetles track it throughout the hive? Will it puff around while we put it in and out, and so get into the hives and kill bees?
Title: Re: Mason jar external beetle trap
Post by: Absinthe on June 05, 2020, 05:33:54 pm
Here are some things to consider. If you have hardware cloth as the floor of your hive like in the screened bottom board, the beetles can get through it but the bees can't. You could have a solid board below this. This opens you to do things that you can't really do on a solid one. There is a video of a guy using one of these IPM screened floors and on the bottom below the screen he puts a piece of vinyl table cloth flanel side up. That has the same effect that the swiffer sheets do in that it tangles their feet and they die over time.

If you are using DE it is basically a vat of razor blades that slices their exoskeleton and they desicate and dry out, basically bleed to death, death by a thousand cuts.

If you try the boric acid in lard/crisco it is certainly a poison but I think the action is more of a caustic than toxic.

If you use outside the hive, the nematodes then you have a predator, that is kind of species specific and doesn't do harm to the bees. And atleast one of the nematode varieties actually attacks adult beetles. I am not sure if anyone are able to get nematodes to live in their eco-floors, but it is a question worth asking.

So on the CD traps, why not put some bait in the middle, and coat the whole side of the case with tanglefoot. The beetles can get in, but the bees can't. Likewise with your jar traps on the floor. If you are worried about your hardware cloth being larger so that the bees can get in it, or you are concerned that they may propilize it, how about tacking a shim over the top with a thin standoff perhaps a pop-rivet washer or a dime or a few pieces of playing card. The beetles can get underneath it, and the bees will happily chase them underneath it but can't follow.

These beetles are the devil. I had a good bit of luck using that NeverWet Flanges method. If you search NeverWet and Small Hive Beetle on youtube you will see his videos.

There is also another fellow that has changed his entrances to be what looks like pieces of pex pipe. The claim is that beetles can't hover like bees, and can't get in the pipes as well. He has some videos of that.

There is also the Guardian entrance reducer thing. I still don't understand what it is doing, but it looks like it does something in the video.

On Billy Davis' videos where he explains their hive design changes they have well fitting joints, and insect screen around the hive, which is open mesh "all the way to the ground" where there are nematodes. The beetles can't get in from under the hive, and there is a very small 2" by maybe 3/8" covered with a small robbing screen that makes a very defensible entrance thus reducing the adults entry opportunities. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnqsV8b0CBc

I cringe to see FatbeeMan  staple poison to the bottom board of his hives, but his videos say it is effective. I really wouldn't want DE inside my hive either, but if my rack was screened to the ground and I knew my bees couldn't get under there, I wouldn't mind having both DE and borax all over the place under there. Take care of the stupid ants while we're at it :)

I am in the process of regrouping so thoughts of redesigning some of my equipment in the process are up there. I may abandon my racks for the type of stands that Billy describes in his video and maybe some other things. But I know that it is not a singular method to fix the SHB. But in any event you gotta do more than one thing. Though keeping a strong hive is a mantra I keep hearing.

BTW, you don't have to use used cooking oil, but it is an attractant. Also for other critters too :) But if it is close to your home, you can use soapy water. They will drown in that just as well.
Title: Re: Mason jar external beetle trap
Post by: Bob Wilson on June 05, 2020, 10:39:28 pm
Thanks, Absinthe. Most of those ideas I have considered. Some I have discarded, such as the bait traps, and poison in or under the hive.
But a few others have got me thinking.
Thanks for the input. SHB are one of my biggest problems, here in mid-Georgia.
Title: Re: Mason jar external beetle trap
Post by: Absinthe on June 05, 2020, 11:29:23 pm
Yeah, well they are no picnic here in the Piedmont area of North Carolina :)
Title: Re: Mason jar external beetle trap
Post by: Bob Wilson on August 02, 2020, 11:24:42 pm
Mason jar beetle trap update.
They do a good job of beetle control. The bees chase the SHB to the corners, the beetle flee through the hardware cloth cover and drop into the mineral oil in the jar screwed from below.
HOWEVER... A PROBLEM.
In a bad rainstorm, water leaked into one of my hives. The water ran into and filled two of the jars. The oil floated on top of the water, and oil and water spilled upwards into the hive body. It killed a lot of bees, even though the queen and the brood were all above the mess.