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MEMBER & GUEST INTERACTION SECTION => THE COFFEE HOUSE ((( SOCIAL - ROOM ))) => Topic started by: cidersabuzzin on July 14, 2019, 09:02:17 pm

Title: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: cidersabuzzin on July 14, 2019, 09:02:17 pm
I think this says it all.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-48982172

cider
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: kathyp on July 14, 2019, 10:10:06 pm
Well, we have 4 congresswomen who are communists and nutters to boot.  None of them seem to like the country.  None of them seem to want to do anything to fix what they complain about.  All of them want free everything and open borders.  One of them, among the worst of the 4, was taken into this country as a refugee.  One of them, the worst of them for sure, foul-mouthed and Muslim centric to the exclusion of our allies and our policies. 
Now, I don't care what religion people are when they serve the country, but their job is to serve the country and none of these women are doing anything other than serving themselves and their special interests.  If you disagree with them, you are RACIST. 

So, he's not wrong and it has nothing to do with race or gender.  They'd like to make it about both, but screaming racist just really doesn't work anymore.  We have all gotten over being afraid of that one.  Same with Nazi!.  They have made the words meaningless.
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: iddee on July 15, 2019, 06:45:02 am
For one thing, it is a total lie. He told them to go back to their countries, fix the terror and corruption, get those governments right, then come back here and show us how it's done.
That's a lot different than the partial quote the media is spitting out.. which makes it a complete lie.
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: Ben Framed on July 15, 2019, 11:32:24 pm
For one thing, it is a total lie. He told them to go back to their countries, fix the terror and corruption, get those governments right, then come back here and show us how it's done.
That's a lot different than the partial quote the media is spitting out.. which makes it a complete lie.

Well that is about par for the course. These impostor Reporters will stop at nothing in order to deceive the public. Shameful but they have no shame. Equivocators...
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: cidersabuzzin on July 16, 2019, 04:40:40 am
For one thing, it is a total lie. He told them to go back to their countries, fix the terror and corruption, get those governments right, then come back here and show us how it's done.
That's a lot different than the partial quote the media is spitting out.. which makes it a complete lie.
Just a thought iddee.....which countries were the three who were born in the US to go back to? The other one was twelve when she arrived in the US presumably having not much choice in the matter. What  does this say about other immigrants to the US who could very well be RW and successful? Is he saying they should go back to the countries they came from and not return until they had "sorted them out" No he's not, he is just using racist division to enhance his credentials with the gullible RW sheeples who believe what they are fed. The 'give me a funny hat so I don't have to think' sheeple. :rolleyes:
cider     
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: kathyp on July 16, 2019, 11:22:54 am
Quote
Just a thought iddee.....which countries were the three who were born in the US to go back to? The other one was twelve when she arrived in the US presumably having not much choice in the matter. What  does this say about other immigrants to the US who could very well be RW and successful? Is he saying they should go back to the countries they came from and not return until they had "sorted them out" No he's not, he is just using racist division to enhance his credentials with the gullible RW sheeples who believe what they are fed. The 'give me a funny hat so I don't have to think' sheeple. :rolleyes:
cider     

I suspect you are getting the European filtered view of these 4 women.  Should we have left Omar in Somalia?  What might her life be like if we had?  Do you think it would look anything like the life she now has?  Yet she blames the US for everything all over the world and supports terrorists.
Talib hyphenates her ethnicity as Palsetinian-American.  Like most who hyphenate, she seems to have her heart with the ID of the people who are other than American.  She is anti-Semitic, and at best, a true socialist.  I suspect after listening to her, she's actually communist.  Regardless, she seems to hate this country.  Yes, she was born here, but if she IDs so strongly with the Palestinians, I am sure they would love to have her.

AOC does not deserve further comment.  She's just entertaining and keeping the Dems on their heals.  The 4th seems to be a bit of a  hanger-on. 

The comment was not so different than what has been said multiple times over the decades to many people.  If you do not like it here, or you think we are the problem, go where you will like it better.
The suggestion is not racist, or sexist.  BUT, when you have people who can use those accusations, they will.  It's automatic and most of us are done with it.  We know it for what it is, but we just don't care anymore.
Also note that when Trump made the original comments he did not even mention their names. 

Cider, how impressed would you be if every time you and I disagreed I screamed SEXIST at you?   :wink:

would you be happy to have people in your government who seem to hate your country?




Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: incognito on July 16, 2019, 11:26:48 am
...he is just using racist division to enhance his credentials with the gullible RW sheeples...
Or are the congresswomen and the media using racist division for their own purposes?

I, for one, have grown insensitive to the cries from subgroups to promote their own agendas. Get over it. I don't care what physical characteristics you posses, what your sexual orientation is, what religion you practice, what gender you are or were or identify with or what region of the globe your ancestors came from. I find it insulting that right wing North Americans are labeled as racists. That is racist, is it not?

I too look to a day when people will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character.  Playing the straw man race card reveals the character flaws of those congresswomen looking for publicity and the media looking for advertising dollars.
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: kathyp on July 16, 2019, 12:18:50 pm
Quote
I too look to a day when people will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character.  Playing the straw man race card reveals the character flaws of those congresswomen looking for publicity and the media looking for advertising dollars.

Bravo! 
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: cidersabuzzin on July 16, 2019, 01:12:35 pm
Quote
Just a thought iddee.....which countries were the three who were born in the US to go back to? The other one was twelve when she arrived in the US presumably having not much choice in the matter. What  does this say about other immigrants to the US who could very well be RW and successful? Is he saying they should go back to the countries they came from and not return until they had "sorted them out" No he's not, he is just using racist division to enhance his credentials with the gullible RW sheeples who believe what they are fed. The 'give me a funny hat so I don't have to think' sheeple. :rolleyes:
cider     

I suspect you are getting the European filtered view of these 4 women.  Should we have left Omar in Somalia?  What might her life be like if we had?  Do you think it would look anything like the life she now has?  Yet she blames the US for everything all over the world and supports terrorists.
Talib hyphenates her ethnicity as Palsetinian-American.  Like most who hyphenate, she seems to have her heart with the ID of the people who are other than American.  She is anti-Semitic, and at best, a true socialist.  I suspect after listening to her, she's actually communist.  Regardless, she seems to hate this country.  Yes, she was born here, but if she IDs so strongly with the Palestinians, I am sure they would love to have her.

AOC does not deserve further comment.  She's just entertaining and keeping the Dems on their heals.  The 4th seems to be a bit of a  hanger-on. 

The comment was not so different than what has been said multiple times over the decades to may people.  If you do not like it here, or you think we are the problem, go where you will like it better.
The suggestion is not racist, or sexist.  BUT, when you have people who can use those accusations, they will.  It's automatic and most of us are done with it.  We know it for what it is, but we just don't care anymore.
Also note that when Trump made the original comments he did not even mention their names. 

Cider, how impressed would you be if every time you and I disagreed I screamed SEXIST at you?   :wink:

would you be happy to have people in your government who seem to hate your country?
I suspect you are getting the European filtered view of these 4 women. 

Do you think I get the "European filtered view" (what ever that is) on here? :rolleyes: The internet is awash with various opinions of the four and since G&T's diatribe even more so. Which ever way you look at it he is stoking up the RW sheeple for 2020 and they cannot see it. Give them a hat or two and they are  happy especially if they come with a few abbreviations on the front.

cider would you be happy to have people in your government who seem to hate your country? 

Obviously no I think you knew that was a no brainer :smile:

On the other hand I would not expect the Queen to make sexist, racist remarks about them and tell them to get back to their own? country.
And I'm darn (I'll have to fix the holes in my socks!) sure she did not go around bragging of groping men's genitals. But then again she is the head of state.
Regards
cider
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: cidersabuzzin on July 16, 2019, 01:37:08 pm
...he is just using racist division to enhance his credentials with the gullible RW sheeples...
Or are the congresswomen and the media using racist division for their own purposes?

I, for one, have grown insensitive to the cries from subgroups to promote their own agendas. Get over it. I don't care what physical characteristics you posses, what your sexual orientation is, what religion you practice, what gender you are or were or identify with or what region of the globe your ancestors came from. I find it insulting that right wing North Americans are labeled as racists. That is racist, is it not?

I too look to a day when people will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character.  Playing the straw man race card reveals the character flaws of those congresswomen looking for publicity and the media looking for advertising dollars.
Give the man another hat! :cheesy: :cheesy: :cheesy: :wink:
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: sawdstmakr on July 16, 2019, 01:49:58 pm
...he is just using racist division to enhance his credentials with the gullible RW sheeples...
Or are the congresswomen and the media using racist division for their own purposes?

I, for one, have grown insensitive to the cries from subgroups to promote their own agendas. Get over it. I don't care what physical characteristics you posses, what your sexual orientation is, what religion you practice, what gender you are or were or identify with or what region of the globe your ancestors came from. I find it insulting that right wing North Americans are labeled as racists. That is racist, is it not?

I too look to a day when people will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character.  Playing the straw man race card reveals the character flaws of those congresswomen looking for publicity and the media looking for advertising dollars.
X2
Jim Altmiller
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: incognito on July 16, 2019, 01:59:36 pm

Give the man another hat! :cheesy: :cheesy: :cheesy: :wink:

I do not understand the meaning of your reply as it relates to my comment.

Please clarify what you are trying to communicate.
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: cidersabuzzin on July 16, 2019, 02:46:35 pm

Give the man another hat! :cheesy: :cheesy: :cheesy: :wink:

I do not understand the meaning of your reply as it relates to my comment.

Please clarify what you are trying to communicate.
It was meant as a 'quip' :grin: see post 8  :cheesy: :wink:
cider
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: kathyp on July 16, 2019, 02:56:47 pm
Quote
On the other hand I would not expect the Queen to make sexist, racist remarks about them and tell them to get back to their own? country.
And I'm darn (I'll have to fix the holes in my socks!) sure she did not go around bragging of groping men's genitals. But then again she is the head of state.
Regards
cider

Your queen acts according to the way she was raised and the environment she has been in all of her life.  Trump does the same.  We already had someone who thought he was acting like a king.  He was a disaster.  I'll take the NY scrapper.

Look, the person I would have chosen as the Republican nominee was a quiet-spoken, very intelligent, conservative. People complained he was cold and intellectual.   He did not win over Trump.  What Trump was, was known when he won the nomination and the presidency.  If you expect shock now, you are a couple of years to late.
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: iddee on July 16, 2019, 03:15:57 pm
I have no doubt that Trump would have said the same thing if 2 had been Caucasian and 2 were albino. He said what he said because of their actions,and the conditions their parents or grandparents left to come here,not their color.. Race was not a factor at all. 

You, the dems, and the media are much more racist, insinuating all the corrupt terrorist governmants are people of color.
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: incognito on July 16, 2019, 03:48:30 pm

Give the man another hat! :cheesy: :cheesy: :cheesy: :wink:

I do not understand the meaning of your reply as it relates to my comment.

Please clarify what you are trying to communicate.
It was meant as a 'quip' :grin: see post 8  :cheesy: :wink:
cider
For future reference, just stick to the facts of the discussion at hand. Do not make it personal. Keep your quips to your inner circle.

You do not know me, what I think nor what I feel about the behavior of the president.


Edited to add.
In post 8, Kathy appears to agree with what I said. Your prior post seems to somehow conclude what I think. Again, I do not understand the logic of your latest reply.
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: cidersabuzzin on July 16, 2019, 04:01:58 pm
I have no doubt that Trump would have said the same thing if 2 had been Caucasian and 2 were albino. He said what he said because of their actions,and the conditions their parents or grandparents left to come here,not their color.. Race was not a factor at all. 

You, the dems, and the media are much more racist, insinuating all the corrupt terrorist governmants are people of color.

You, the dems, and the media are much more racist, insinuating all the corrupt terrorist governmants are people of color.

??????????and more?????????.................iddee I think you have managed to turn it on its head. Go away to a dark corner take off your maga hat and think about it. When you have, call the nurse for some pills and salt. :cheesy: :wink:
cider the elder

iddee
At least I must admit in this instance you don't have your head stuck where the Sun don't shine. Unlike some. :cheesy:
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: iddee on July 16, 2019, 05:06:54 pm
UH-OH. Cider saw the truth and his head exploded.   :shocked:

Dang, the truth hurts, don't it, Cider?   :cheesy: :cheesy:
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: cidersabuzzin on July 16, 2019, 05:40:23 pm
UH-OH. Cider saw the truth and his head exploded.   :shocked:

Dang, the truth hurts, don't it, Cider?   :cheesy: :cheesy:
Noooooo iddee not in that context. I was referring to a very very recent somewhat stilted post :cheesy: (I think you know what I mean) :cheesy: :cheesy: :cheesy: :wink:
cider the elder.

PS Nothing to do with your posts on this thread!
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: Hops Brewster on July 18, 2019, 11:51:51 am
Yes, Trump has gone too far.   We were enjoying the show while Pelosi and AOC and the other congress critters involved in this blow-up were busy in-fighting and dividing the Demorat party, over Pelosi's own "racist" comments about those 4.  then along comes the Big Blowhard and gives the 'Rats a reason to band together instead of tearing themselves apart. 
Another foolish move for Trump.
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: kathyp on July 18, 2019, 12:07:37 pm
Quote
then along comes the Big Blowhard and gives the 'Rats a reason to band together instead of tearing themselves apart. 
Another foolish move for Trump.

I'll give you blowhard, but I am not sure you are correct about the rest of it.  It forced them back out as the face of the dems and forced NP to deal with them and impeachment again.

He also gave voice to what a lot of people are thinking, so even if people cringe hearing it out loud, they do not necessarily disagree. 

NP can't control the squad, and the more they are encouraged to go out and flap their jaws, the better it gets. 
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: cidersabuzzin on July 18, 2019, 01:11:42 pm
Quote
then along comes the Big Blowhard and gives the 'Rats a reason to band together instead of tearing themselves apart. 
Another foolish move for Trump.

I'll give you blowhard, but I am not sure you are correct about the rest of it.  It forced them back out as the face of the dems and forced NP to deal with them and impeachment again.

He also gave voice to what a lot of people are thinking, so even if people cringe hearing it out loud, they do not necessarily disagree. 

NP can't control the squad, and the more they are encouraged to go out and flap their jaws, the better it gets.
Just been watching this,

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-us-canada-49034885/donald-trump-supporters-chant-send-her-back-at-rally

 now is this rabble rousing or is it rabble rousing? Undoubtedly there would have been some 'helpers' in the audience shouting "send her back" until the sheeple took it up. He just reminds me of Mussolini with that self satisfied smirk on his face, all he needs to do is fold his arms and nod.
cider   
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: Ben Framed on July 18, 2019, 04:46:56 pm
Cider I read some of your News clipping from the  BBC. (Blundering Babbling Communications)

I want to ask your opinion, why do the leftest media always seem to try to play race into their agendas? Everyone knows Mr Trump does not pick and choose, does he not attack any enemy, who is an enemy of the United States Constitution , weather they are foreign or domestic? No matter their race? Does he not also praise keepers and defenders of the Constitution no matter their race or background? Who is really the sheepeople? From the truthful standpoint,  it seems it is mostly the left?
Is it not his job to protect the Constitution from all enemies both foreign and domestic? After all he is the Commander in Chief . 
Quote from BBC:
Donald Trump was cheered at Wednesday's rally in North Carolina after continuing his attacks on the four non-white Democrat congresswomen, known as "The Squad".
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: Ben Framed on July 18, 2019, 05:01:32 pm
Definition of squad (Entry 1 of 2)

1 : a small organized group of military personnel
especially : a tactical unit that can be easily directed in the field

One question who has given these four the name Squad?
Next question who is easily directing them in the fields of America?
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: kathyp on July 18, 2019, 06:03:15 pm
Quote
now is this rabble rousing or is it rabble rousing? Undoubtedly there would have been some 'helpers' in the audience shouting "send her back" until the sheeple took it up. He just reminds me of Mussolini with that self satisfied smirk on his face, all he needs to do is fold his arms and nod.
cider   

Might have been a little more to Mussolini than that, don't you think?  Is this your substitution for shouting NAZI?   :wink:

Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: kathyp on July 18, 2019, 06:08:08 pm
Quote
Everyone knows Mr Trump does not pick and choose, does he not attack any enemy, who is an enemy of the United States Constitution , weather they are foreign or domestic? No matter their race?

Honestly, I doubt he ever considers race or gender, for good or bad, when he strikes back.  One of them shouted at an event that they were going to "impeach the MotherF*****", but that was OK.  Was it OK because Trump is white, male, and Republican?  No one tried to make that argument.  It was just a nasty outburst that went largely ignored by everyone but Trump.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/1/4/18168157/rashida-tlaib-trump-impeachment-motherfucker

Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: cidersabuzzin on July 18, 2019, 07:14:36 pm
Quote
now is this rabble rousing or is it rabble rousing? Undoubtedly there would have been some 'helpers' in the audience shouting "send her back" until the sheeple took it up. He just reminds me of Mussolini with that self satisfied smirk on his face, all he needs to do is fold his arms and nod.
cider   

Might have been a little more to Mussolini than that, don't you think?  Is this your substitution for shouting NAZI?   :wink:
Of course there was a lot more to Mussolini than there is to Trump (at least than is evident at the moment) no I was just commenting on his self satisfied smirk. It is very reminiscent of Benito Mussolini, just look at a few of his speeches (B M that is)
He used rabble rousing speeches too.
cider 

PS Do you really think I would be shouting Nazi? or that I would need a substitute,  I thought better of you!..... but there you go.
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: kathyp on July 18, 2019, 07:24:13 pm
Quote
no I was just commenting on his self satisfied smirk.

As I recall, both Obama and Bush Jr were accused of smirking.  Must be a president thing.  Or an "I don't like this president" thing.
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: cidersabuzzin on July 18, 2019, 08:51:14 pm
Quote
no I was just commenting on his self satisfied smirk.

As I recall, both Obama and Bush Jr were accused of smirking.  Must be a president thing.  Or an "I don't like this president" thing.
You don't say! :wink: That makes two of us :)
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: iddee on July 18, 2019, 11:30:14 pm
NO, Cider, I have no idea what you are referring to in another post. I think I just hit a tender spot you had no comeback to and you went off the deep end. As said before, truth hurts, don't it?

As for D.T., he sees no color. He would hit whites just as hard if white led terrorist countries had reps in our government tearing the US down.

PS. Are there any white led terrorist countries?
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: cidersabuzzin on July 19, 2019, 05:14:43 am
NO, Cider, I have no idea what you are referring to in another post. I think I just hit a tender spot you had no comeback to and you went off the deep end. As said before, truth hurts, don't it?

As for D.T., he sees no color. He would hit whites just as hard if white led terrorist countries had reps in our government tearing the US down.

PS. Are there any white led terrorist countries?++
Now for the last time :rolleyes: I have stated quite categorically it was nothing you* said, it was another poster** on this thread who has come and gone! Hopefully. :rolleyes: Funnily enough I was paying you a compliment*** :smile: but if you'd rather I'd not.... it can be arranged. :cheesy:

++ Irish Nationalists. Supported by Noraid.

* iddee?

**iddee?

***Maybe you do have it stuck where the sun don't shine after all :cheesy:

Did you enjoy with the rest of the sheeples G&Ts rally in N Carolina?

cider the elder
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: iddee on July 19, 2019, 07:58:34 am
 
OK. I misunderstood. I thought you were saying it was my post on another thread. Sorry about that.

No, like car races, I would rather watch it from my living room than fight all the crowds.

A compliment from you?? No wonder I didn't recognize it.   :shocked:   :cheesy:
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: cidersabuzzin on July 19, 2019, 02:24:42 pm
Cider I read some of your News clipping from the  BBC. (Blundering Babbling Communications)

I want to ask your opinion, why do the leftest media always seem to try to play race into their agendas? Everyone knows Mr Trump does not pick and choose, does he not attack any enemy, who is an enemy of the United States Constitution , weather they are foreign or domestic? No matter their race? Does he not also praise keepers and defenders of the Constitution no matter their race or background? Who is really the sheepeople? From the truthful standpoint,  it seems it is mostly the left?
Is it not his job to protect the Constitution from all enemies both foreign and domestic? After all he is the Commander in Chief . 
Quote from BBC:
Donald Trump was cheered at Wednesday's rally in North Carolina after continuing his attacks on the four non-white Democrat congresswomen, known as "The Squad".
Ben
Do you have a second occupation, if you have,  is it as a comedy scriptwriter? :cheesy: You could make a fortune writing comedy shows like the above. :wink:
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: Ben Framed on July 19, 2019, 03:24:30 pm
Cider I read some of your News clipping from the  BBC. (Blundering Babbling Communications)

I want to ask your opinion, why do the leftest media always seem to try to play race into their agendas? Everyone knows Mr Trump does not pick and choose, does he not attack any enemy, who is an enemy of the United States Constitution , weather they are foreign or domestic? No matter their race? Does he not also praise keepers and defenders of the Constitution no matter their race or background? Who is really the sheepeople? From the truthful standpoint,  it seems it is mostly the left?
Is it not his job to protect the Constitution from all enemies both foreign and domestic? After all he is the Commander in Chief . 
Quote from BBC:

Donald Trump was cheered at Wednesday's rally in North Carolina after continuing his attacks on the four non-white Democrat congresswomen, known as "The Squad".
Ben
Do you have a second occupation, if you have,  is it as a comedy scriptwriter? :cheesy: You could make a fortune writing comedy shows like the above. :wink:

Somehow I knew you would love it. You are a pretty good guesser!!! Most of the time.   :wink:
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: cidersabuzzin on July 19, 2019, 05:22:21 pm
Cider I read some of your News clipping from the  BBC. (Blundering Babbling Communications)

I want to ask your opinion, why do the leftest media always seem to try to play race into their agendas? Everyone knows Mr Trump does not pick and choose, does he not attack any enemy, who is an enemy of the United States Constitution , weather they are foreign or domestic? No matter their race? Does he not also praise keepers and defenders of the Constitution no matter their race or background? Who is really the sheepeople? From the truthful standpoint,  it seems it is mostly the left?
Is it not his job to protect the Constitution from all enemies both foreign and domestic? After all he is the Commander in Chief . 
Quote from BBC:

Donald Trump was cheered at Wednesday's rally in North Carolina after continuing his attacks on the four non-white Democrat congresswomen, known as "The Squad".
Ben
Do you have a second occupation, if you have,  is it as a comedy scriptwriter? :cheesy: You could make a fortune writing comedy shows like the above. :wink:

Somehow I knew you would love it. You are a pretty good guesser!!! Most of the time.   :wink:
Ben

"Cider I read some of your News clipping from the  BBC. (Blundering Babbling Communications)"

The above is usually used by people who have things to hide and don't like the truth to come out :smile: Don't worry Ben I don't include you! :wink: Yet.
The BBC is regarded as the most trusted News organisation in the world :happy: :happy: :happy:
cider
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: Ben Framed on July 19, 2019, 05:45:37 pm
The BBC is regarded as the most trusted News organisation in the world :happy: :happy: :happy:
cider

Thanks Cider, I was wondering why they , meaning most liberal News networks, and now reading an article from BBC seeming to make race an issue. I wanted ask those questions. I have no squabble with BBC. I threw the (Blundering Babbling Communications) in just to get your interest,  I didn?t want you to be bored.  :grin: :wink:
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: iddee on July 19, 2019, 06:10:45 pm
""The BBC is regarded as the most trusted News organisation in the world :happy: :happy: :happy:
cider""

References, please. Like links to statistics, maybe?
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: Ben Framed on July 19, 2019, 06:22:10 pm
Ok Elder, it looks as the Younger has piped in and came out swinging !! I will step back and let you two big guns go at it. And May aI Add. May the Best Conservative Win!!  LOL :grin:
 :shocked:  :wink:
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: cidersabuzzin on July 19, 2019, 06:41:33 pm
The BBC is regarded as the most trusted News organisation in the world :happy: :happy: :happy:
cider

Thanks Cider, I was wondering why they , meaning most liberal News networks, and now reading an article from BBC seeming to make race an issue. I wanted ask those questions. I have no squabble with BBC. I threw the (Blundering Babbling Communications) in just to get your interest,  I didn?t want you to be bored.  :grin: :wink:
Reading your posts I'm never bored, inordinately amused yes! How could one be bored with......... :cheesy: :wink:
I would not consider the BBC to be 'liberal' as in your sense of the word. At home they criticize all governments of whatever persuasion. Not necessarily appreciated by any of our political parties. Political parties here cannot buy advertising time on TV.
Around the world they are renowned for their factual reporting and have spawned numerous PBS organisations. Lots of countries around the world who wish to hear unbiased News tune in to the BBC World Service. Could you imagine the same for Fox News?.....in your dreams. :cheesy: 
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: Ben Framed on July 19, 2019, 07:05:28 pm
Could you imagine the same for Fox News?.....in your dreams.  :shocked:
 :grin:
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: cidersabuzzin on July 19, 2019, 07:37:35 pm
""The BBC is regarded as the most trusted News organisation in the world :happy: :happy: :happy:
cider""

References, please. Like links to statics, maybe?

https://www.makeuseof.com/tag/top-5-world-news-websites-guaranteed-free-censorship/
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-most-trusted-tv-news-brand-in-the-us-isnt-even-american-2018-07-31
https://www.makeuseof.com/tag/trust-news-sites/
https://www.pressgazette.co.uk/four-out-of-the-ten-most-trusted-news-sources-in-america-are-british-according-to-new-study/
https://www.lifewire.com/top-sources-for-finding-world-news-online-3481981

cider the elder :cheesy:
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: kathyp on July 19, 2019, 07:56:11 pm
Quote
The BBC is regarded as the most trusted News organisation in the world

Lol.  As is CNN.  Both are left-wing and government-funded.  Kinda like PBS in this country.  I have no doubt that many trust it, as they do CNN, but that does not change their slant.  BBC may not be run by the government directly, but the majority of it's governing board is government-appointed. 

Do you trust the government to provided accurate news? 
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: iddee on July 19, 2019, 08:13:40 pm
Could I imagine that for Fox news, CNN, NBC, CBS, ESPN, or BBC?


NOOOOOOOOOO
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: cidersabuzzin on July 19, 2019, 08:20:34 pm
Quote
The BBC is regarded as the most trusted News organisation in the world

Lol.  As is CNN.  Both are left-wing and government-funded.  Kinda like PBS in this country.  I have no doubt that many trust it, as they do CNN, but that does not change their slant.  BBC may not be run by the government directly, but the majority of it's governing board is government-appointed. 

Do you trust the government to provided accurate news?
I think i would trust the BBC more than I would trust any government news agency, you have stayed in the UK and should know that all political parties are wary of BBC reporting. Could the Dems or Reps say the same? of your news agencies?
cider
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: cidersabuzzin on July 19, 2019, 08:35:55 pm
Could I imagine that for Fox news, CNN, NBC, CBS, ESPN, or BBC?


NOOOOOOOOOO
What a nihilistic outlook on what you have left. :rolleyes:
I will try to revive you occasionally but I don't hold out much hope. It's all a matter of perception,  Much better to stay in the yard and talk to the bees, of course after you have taken the pills and salt :cheesy:
cider the elder.
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: cidersabuzzin on July 19, 2019, 08:51:58 pm
Quote
The BBC is regarded as the most trusted News organisation in the world

Lol.  As is CNN.  Both are left-wing and government-funded.  Kinda like PBS in this country.  I have no doubt that many trust it, as they do CNN, but that does not change their slant.  BBC may not be run by the government directly, but the majority of it's governing board is government-appointed. 

Do you trust the government to provided accurate news?
As has been said on various websites, the perception of socialist/leftwing is different between the RW Republican ideology and normal society. In Europe the US leftwing would be considered more centrist :smile: So you can see why we are not as exercised as you may be. :cheesy:
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: cidersabuzzin on July 19, 2019, 09:03:33 pm
Quote
The BBC is regarded as the most trusted News organisation in the world

Lol.  As is CNN.  Both are left-wing and government-funded.  Kinda like PBS in this country.  I have no doubt that many trust it, as they do CNN, but that does not change their slant.  BBC may not be run by the government directly, but the majority of it's governing board is government-appointed. 

Do you trust the government to provided accurate news?
Who do you trust?
Or do you rely on 'oh someone sent me this,' the alternative being the web, notorious for fake news. a la Breitbart News, Fox News etc, of similar ilk.
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: incognito on July 20, 2019, 01:58:45 am
Who do you trust?
D) None of the above. Guarded skepticism, and patience for the truth to reveal itself after the fury has died down. They are in the entertainment / advertising business.
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: iddee on July 20, 2019, 06:32:05 am
You may be right there, Cider.Here is a quote from one of your links.

""So those who regularly watched the BBC, Fox News and PBS tended to trust them ? a lot.""

As for the rest, I don't put too much faith in a site that lists the New York times as second, nor one that purports snopes as being center.
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: cidersabuzzin on July 20, 2019, 09:37:55 am
You may be right there, Cider.Here is a quote from one of your links.

""So those who regularly watched the BBC, Fox News and PBS tended to trust them ? a lot.""

As for the rest, I don't put too much faith in a site that lists the New York times as second, nor one that purports snopes as being center.
iddee

The British Broadcasting Corporation is the largest broadcaster in the world. The British government funds the organization and so it is not beholden to corporate interests. BBC has a history of over 90 years with a well-earned reputation for accurate, unbiased reporting. AllSides classifies it as a center news source?meaning if you want balance, it?s one of the best news sites.

iddee

Despite being center, U.S. citizens may find that ?center? in the U.K. is notably to the left of what they?re used to.

The BBC?s reputation, however, is a strong one. It was one of the most highly rated in the Pew Research Center?s 2014 trustworthiness study, with all groups except the consistently conservative rating is as more trusted than distrusted. And even that group was relatively neutral about it.

cider
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: kathyp on July 20, 2019, 12:37:10 pm
Quote
I think i would trust the BBC more than I would trust any government news agency, you have stayed in the UK and should know that all political parties are wary of BBC reporting. Could the Dems or Reps say the same? of your news agencies?

I have a problem with anyone, of any ideology, using one source for info.  Take CNN as an example:  At one point they were our only go-to news site.  When they started, they were not horrible.  Understanding that almost all journalists in this country lean left, they managed to be pretty balanced.  They at least tried to do some real reporting even if it had a slant.
This is no longer true.  While a lot of people still trust them, they are not to be trusted.  They have become advocates rather than a news source.
If they are the only place used for info the info will be one sided and often inaccurate.

I get that the BBC is an old, venerable, and trusted site, but if it is the source you use for info you are not getting the full story.  They probably do not make as many mistakes as CNN does, but there is often the sin of omission.

There are a couple of shows on FOX that I really like because they make an effort to show all sides of a story, but even there, I do not trust only FOX shows to get me all the info.  Side A and B may be covered, but side C gets missed.  You have to go look for side C.

CNN international is spewed all over the world and it sucks.  It, unfortunately, is where a lot of people get their info about what is going on in the US.  Because I know this, I understand the slanted view many other countries have of the US. 

Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: kathyp on July 20, 2019, 12:39:39 pm
Oh, and I have BBC news and watch it.  It is a good place to get info about what is going on in the rest of the world because our news often gets caught up in minutia here and does not cover stuff like you ships being seized.  Believe it or not, it has barely been mentioned here on the MSM sites.
I also double-check what to report on international issues to the extent that I can.   
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: cidersabuzzin on July 20, 2019, 01:05:35 pm
Oh, and I have BBC news and watch it.  It is a good place to get info about what is going on in the rest of the world because our news often gets caught up in minutia here and does not cover stuff like you ships being seized.  Believe it or not, it has barely been mentioned here on the MSM sites.
I also double-check what to report on international issues to the extent that I can.
I agree and I too surf different news agencies I particularly like Channel 4 News (British) which seems reasonably balanced. I agree re TV News in the US when visiting it seems very parochial as though nothing happens beyond your shores. I suppose a downside to being such a large country :grin: The thing I like about the BBC is; all political parties, large businesses and powerful individuals complain all the time. Especially about their investigatory reporting, so they must be doing something right. :wink: :cheesy: :cheesy: :cheesy:
Regards
cider
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: iddee on July 20, 2019, 06:54:18 pm
Cider, what part of my quote did you not understand??

"""You may be right there, Cider"""
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: cidersabuzzin on July 21, 2019, 04:00:12 am
Cider, what part of my quote did you not understand??

"""You may be right there, Cider"""
We shall have to stop this love-in :cheesy: it removes all the fun :wink: Being the inveterate cynic I must have missed that there was just  the nuance of an agreement from you. Thanks, grovel grovel :cheesy:
You happy now? :wink:
cider the elder
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: cidersabuzzin on October 05, 2019, 08:05:55 am
Cider, what part of my quote did you not understand??

"""You may be right there, Cider"""
We shall have to stop this love-in :cheesy: it removes all the fun :wink: Being the inveterate cynic I must have missed that there was just  the nuance of an agreement from you. Thanks, grovel grovel :cheesy:
You happy now? :wink:
cider the elder
This will probably stop the 'Love in'
I see DT has been subpoenaed to provide accurate translations of phone calls he had with Ukraine's Volodymyr Zelensky re Joe Biden. The net is closing in. :wink:
cider
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: iddee on October 05, 2019, 08:11:00 am
The dems wouldn't recognize accurate if it smacked them in the face.

Like Rubio said, Trump is playing the media like a fiddle, and they are falling right in step.
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: cidersabuzzin on October 05, 2019, 08:17:12 am
The dems wouldn't recognize accurate if it smacked them in the face.

Like Rubio said, Trump is playing the media like a fiddle, and they are falling right in step.
Well........you know what happened to the fiddler who watched Rome burn :grin:
cider
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: iddee on October 05, 2019, 08:25:56 am
I know what happened to Rome.  :cheesy: :cheesy: :cheesy:
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: Acebird on October 05, 2019, 09:14:40 am
""The BBC is regarded as the most trusted News organisation in the world :happy: :happy: :happy:
cider""

References, please. Like links to statics, maybe?

https://www.makeuseof.com/tag/top-5-world-news-websites-guaranteed-free-censorship/
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-most-trusted-tv-news-brand-in-the-us-isnt-even-american-2018-07-31
https://www.makeuseof.com/tag/trust-news-sites/
https://www.pressgazette.co.uk/four-out-of-the-ten-most-trusted-news-sources-in-america-are-british-according-to-new-study/
https://www.lifewire.com/top-sources-for-finding-world-news-online-3481981

cider the elder :cheesy:

LOL do you think the provided references will sway his mind?
If someone truly wanted to know if Trump was doing a good job or for that matter, good for the country they would only need to listen to the last 4 surviving presidents who did the job.  No other references needed or news organizations.
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: cidersabuzzin on October 05, 2019, 09:52:54 am
I know what happened to Rome.  :cheesy: :cheesy: :cheesy:
But you don't recognize what happened to the fiddler? figuratively speaking :wink: :grin: :grin: :grin:
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: iddee on October 05, 2019, 11:10:35 am
If someone truly wanted to know if Trump was doing a good job or for that matter, good for the country they would only need to check the stock market, the unemployment rate, the welfare reduction rate, or the illegal entrance rate. Political spin from liberal media mean nothing.
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: Ben Framed on October 05, 2019, 11:23:23 am
If someone truly wanted to know if Trump was doing a good job or for that matter, good for the country they would only need to check the stock market, the unemployment rate, the welfare reduction rate, or the illegal entrance rate. Political spin from liberal media mean nothing.

Iddee, just a few years ago, Really starting in the Bush administration and on through the obama administration, I was wondering, are these politicians deliberately trying to destroy our economy? I was thinking surely not?  Now, with the good things that our current President is doing (they) are throwing fits!  It sure looks like that may have been true!  And if this is true, would this not be treason against their own country? Their own people?  The Constitution?
Dallas you are my favorite attorney on beemaster, what do you see here?
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: sawdstmakr on October 05, 2019, 12:01:48 pm
I believe Obama, Hillary, Biden and Palosie (sp)  should all be charged with treason.
Jim Altmiller
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: iddee on October 05, 2019, 05:19:31 pm
Jim, the correct phonetic spelling is Pee-lousy.   :cool:   :cheesy:
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: cidersabuzzin on October 05, 2019, 05:27:37 pm
Jim, the correct phonetic spelling is Pee-lousy.   :cool:   :cheesy:
Isn't your friend Rudy now being investigated? :grin: The hunter is now the hunted. :wink: :cheesy:
https://www.nytimes.com ? 2019/09/30 ? politics ? ap-us-trump-impeachment

cider .....now feeling a bit younger.
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: cidersabuzzin on October 05, 2019, 05:47:26 pm
If someone truly wanted to know if Trump was doing a good job or for that matter, good for the country they would only need to check the stock market, the unemployment rate, the welfare reduction rate, or the illegal entrance rate. Political spin from liberal media mean nothing.

Iddee, just a few years ago, Really starting in the Bush administration and on through the obama administration, I was wondering, are these politicians deliberately trying to destroy our economy? I was thinking surely not?  Now, with the good things that our current President is doing (they) are throwing fits!  It sure looks like that may have been true!  And if this is true, would this not be treason against their own country? Their own people?  The Constitution?
Dallas you are my favorite attorney on beemaster, what do you see here?

Ben, Ben I dispair. :sad:
 Is this not out of the Nazi's playbook? Get rid of your political opponents by accusing them of treason :rolleyes: Firing squad next I presume? The Lunatic right drifting even more into the gutter.  No pun intended :rolleyes:
Cider the younger
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: iddee on October 05, 2019, 08:08:38 pm
Who isn't being investigated? And since 2016. Just another witch hunt that won't find anything wrong. It will just make the left look that much worse.
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: Ben Framed on October 05, 2019, 11:09:36 pm
If someone truly wanted to know if Trump was doing a good job or for that matter, good for the country they would only need to check the stock market, the unemployment rate, the welfare reduction rate, or the illegal entrance rate. Political spin from liberal media mean nothing.

Iddee, just a few years ago, Really starting in the Bush administration and on through the obama administration, I was wondering, are these politicians deliberately trying to destroy our economy? I was thinking surely not?  Now, with the good things that our current President is doing (they) are throwing fits!  It sure looks like that may have been true!  And if this is true, would this not be treason against their own country? Their own people?  The Constitution?
Dallas you are my favorite attorney on beemaster, what do you see here?

Ben, Ben I dispair. :sad:
 Is this not out of the Nazi's playbook? Get rid of your political opponents by accusing them of treason :rolleyes: Firing squad next I presume? The Lunatic right drifting even more into the gutter.  :rolleyes:
Cider the younger

Cider,Cider, with your words I despair, I have always had confidence that you combed the words of others very carefully and thoroughly before your commenting? Bush was always seen as on the right, right? Many on the right still see him as one of their own? Look closely and you will see, and I quote myself. ''Really starting in the (Bush) administration and on through the (obama) administration'' You see Cider, I would not so much be partial to a party or against a party, unless a party is partial to an idealism that is contradictory to the Flag of The United States Of America and the Republic for which it stands, ONE NATION UNDER GOD, and as long as we were reminded that our nation is One Nation under God, it was INDIVISIBLE, seeking Liberty and Justice for All.  All Americans would do well to remember that the Russian communist declared  that they would take America from within. How did they get their foot in the door? I will tell you my opinion, it was during Jack Kennedys' watch as Commander in Chief. And how you may ask, how could I come to such a conclusion and even dare to suggest such a thing? Let me tell you, that is when God was officially taken out of our schools, along with that decision, in my opinion, crippling our coat of protection from all enemies both foreign and domestic. As the indivisible became the divided. The only RIGHT way to call it is straight down the line. To answer your question, IF there is treason against ones own country, no matter the side, democrat or republican, right or left, then so be it. Drain the Swamp!   
  :wink:

PS I noticed that you are now referring to yourself as Cider the younger?  Hum it seems you have flip flopped on this small irrelevant stance, as I recall, you use to call yourself Cider the Elder. This gives me hope of your now open-minded way of thinking. Perhaps this may be an indication you will finally, in time, see your way clear to join the right, irregardless of a party. Perhaps you took my advice to add, along with your glasses to see the truth, your hearing aids in which to more clearly hear the truth, and again I will add, perhaps you have cleared your nose so that you can finally smell the roses!  lol j/k with the PS, my friend. I just could not resist.....
 :grin:
Phillip
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: cidersabuzzin on October 06, 2019, 04:48:55 am
The 'Younger' really was for iddee's consumption, I didn't expect anyone else to be interested, in truth probably not iddee either  :cheesy:
cider
PS
"All Americans would do well to remember that the Russian communist declared that they would take America from within" How did they get their foot in the door?
I think its called Democracy at work :wink: One always has to ensure the alternative is preferable and not chip away and drift toward a theocracy. A la Iran.
cider TY
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: Acebird on October 06, 2019, 09:32:54 am
If someone truly wanted to know if Trump was doing a good job or for that matter, good for the country they would only need to check the stock market,

That is why your values are twisted.  The stock market represents only the haves, not the have-nots.  The stock market does not represent the economy or the quality of life.  Unemployment is a statistical number.  It does not represent the number of people out of work or the quality of the job that was taken when the benefits ran out.  The only way that number would mean anything is if the benefits never ran out.  So it is clear to me why you think the moron in the white house is doing a good job.  Your values are twisted.
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: Ben Framed on October 06, 2019, 09:52:49 am
Cider, I will confess that I am Immensely enjoying our conversation. I have more to say on this subject. As for now, we will soon here at our home, be immersed in our Sunday morning family time.  As as an old friend might say, until we meet here again my friend, may God richly Bless you !!
Phillip
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: iddee on October 06, 2019, 10:22:25 am
Well, Ace, I have filed and paid taxes with a wage of 50 cents an hour, never made more than 60,000 in my very best, ""only one"" year, and I have stock. Would you consider me one of the haves or one of the have-nots that didn't blow it all on boose and dope?

Although the unemployment rate is for only those still looking, anyone that hasn't renewed their hunt after the reports of the last year doesn't want a job.  Yes, there is a statistic on the unemployable, also. Not much can be done about those.

I notice you left out 50% of the things I mentioned. WHY?
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: cidersabuzzin on October 06, 2019, 04:39:17 pm
Well, Ace, I have filed and paid taxes with a wage of 50 cents an hour, never made more than 60,000 in my very best, ""only one"" year, and I have stock. Would you consider me one of the haves or one of the have-nots that didn't blow it all on boose and dope?

Although the unemployment rate is for only those still looking, anyone that hasn't renewed their hunt after the reports of the last year doesn't want a job.  Yes, there is a statistic on the unemployable, also. Not much can be done about those.

I notice you left out 50% of the things I mentioned. WHY?
iddee
I seem to recollect you posted about making $200,000 in one year, undoubtedly I will have this wrong. Could you confirm I have?   :wink:   
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: iddee on October 06, 2019, 05:11:43 pm
I think you were dreaming. I've never made 100G, much less 2.
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: cidersabuzzin on October 06, 2019, 05:34:31 pm
If someone truly wanted to know if Trump was doing a good job or for that matter, good for the country they would only need to check the stock market, the unemployment rate, the welfare reduction rate, or the illegal entrance rate. Political spin from liberal media mean nothing.

Iddee, just a few years ago, Really starting in the Bush administration and on through the obama administration, I was wondering, are these politicians deliberately trying to destroy our economy? I was thinking surely not?  Now, with the good things that our current President is doing (they) are throwing fits!  It sure looks like that may have been true!  And if this is true, would this not be treason against their own country? Their own people?  The Constitution?
Dallas you are my favorite attorney on beemaster, what do you see here?

Ben, Ben I dispair. :sad:
 Is this not out of the Nazi's playbook? Get rid of your political opponents by accusing them of treason :rolleyes: Firing squad next I presume? The Lunatic right drifting even more into the gutter.  :rolleyes:
Cider the younger

Cider,Cider, with your words I despair, I have always had confidence that you combed the words of others very carefully and thoroughly before your commenting? Bush was always seen as on the right, right? Many on the right still see him as one of their own? Look closely and you will see, and I quote myself. ''Really starting in the (Bush) administration and on through the (obama) administration'' You see Cider, I would not so much be partial to a party or against a party, unless a party is partial to an idealism that is contradictory to the Flag of The United States Of America and the Republic for which it stands, ONE NATION UNDER GOD, and as long as we were reminded that our nation is One Nation under God, it was INDIVISIBLE, seeking Liberty and Justice for All.  All Americans would do well to remember that the Russian communist declared  that they would take America from within. How did they get their foot in the door? I will tell you my opinion, it was during Jack Kennedys' watch as Commander in Chief. And how you may ask, how could I come to such a conclusion and even dare to suggest such a thing? Let me tell you, that is when God was officially taken out of our schools, along with that decision, in my opinion, crippling our coat of protection from all enemies both foreign and domestic. As the indivisible became the divided. The only RIGHT way to call it is straight down the line. To answer your question, IF there is treason against ones own country, no matter the side, democrat or republican, right or left, then so be it. Drain the Swamp!   
  :wink:

PS I noticed that you are now referring to yourself as Cider the younger?  Hum it seems you have flip flopped on this small irrelevant stance, as I recall, you use to call yourself Cider the Elder. This gives me hope of your now open-minded way of thinking. Perhaps this may be an indication you will finally, in time, see your way clear to join the right, irregardless of a party. Perhaps you took my advice to add, along with your glasses to see the truth, your hearing aids in which to more clearly hear the truth, and again I will add, perhaps you have cleared your nose so that you can finally smell the roses!  lol j/k with the PS, my friend. I just could not resist.....
 :grin:
Phillip
I'm afraid not :cheesy:
cider TY
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: kathyp on October 06, 2019, 06:42:54 pm
Quote
That is why your values are twisted.  The stock market represents only the haves, not the have-nots.  The stock market does not represent the economy or the quality of life.  Unemployment is a statistical number.  It does not represent the number of people out of work or the quality of the job that was taken when the benefits ran out.  The only way that number would mean anything is if the benefits never ran out.  So it is clear to me why you think the moron in the white house is doing a good job.  Your values are twisted.

The stock market is not necessarily a good indicator of economic health.  Under the last admin, it was being propped up by QE and that skewed the market.  It is a good indicator of what businesses think the future opportunities are, as long as it is not artificially propped up.   It can be a good indicator of short term business health.

Well over 1/2 of the country is invested in some way in the stock market.  Many have managed funds for retirement, some of us have personal accounts,  many have both.  Even if we take your assertion as truth, which it is not, having over 1/2 the country in the "haves" category is pretty good, don't you think?

Unemployment rate:  U6 is probably a better overall picture, but looking at U3,5, and 6, unemployment is still down and still on a downward trend.  Additionally, surveys of employers show that they are working to hire in a much tighter employee market and so are offering higher wages, benefits, etc.  This is the way to increase wages with market forces.  The more people employed, the more employers have to bid for them. 

So yeah, moron or not, things are better by just about any measure. 

Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: cidersabuzzin on October 06, 2019, 06:44:13 pm
I think you were dreaming. I've never made 100G, much less 2.
More research required!:cheesy:
cider TY
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: Acebird on October 07, 2019, 08:53:25 am
Well, Ace, I have filed and paid taxes with a wage of 50 cents an hour, never made more than 60,000 in my very best, ""only one"" year, and I have stock. Would you consider me one of the haves or one of the have-nots that didn't blow it all on boose and dope?
Neither you or me are a haves or have-nots.  You are just a delusional trump supporter who feels he has benefited you.  We are on SS and that makes us entitled by definition of the trump administration.
Quote
Although the unemployment rate is for only those still looking, anyone that hasn't renewed their hunt after the reports of the last year doesn't want a job.
Being entitled it is easy to say that.  I suspect many of those that have lost their benefits are discouraged because they cannot find a job to replace what they had.

Quote
I notice you left out 50% of the things I mentioned. WHY?
It would bore the forum for me to pick apart the rest of the propaganda you have spilled out.
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: Acebird on October 07, 2019, 09:04:44 am

Well over 1/2 of the country is invested in some way in the stock market.
Most people are gamblers and most gamblers are not part of the haves yet many are part of the have-nots.  The government supports these investments/gamble.  Where in the constitution does it say the government should support the stock market that only benefits the haves?

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The more people employed, the more employers have to bid for them.

Very good! So now that the illegals are walled off from entering you can get 25 cents an hour more for picking fruits and vegetables.  Wonderful, just it time for your apple crop.

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So yeah, moron or not, things are better by just about any measure.
Your ruler is broken.
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: Acebird on October 07, 2019, 09:13:44 am
having over 1/2 the country in the "haves" category is pretty good, don't you think?

This is why your ruler is broken.  Only 6% of the country is in the "haves" category.  Maybe 13-14% are in the "have-nots" category.  The rest of the country is in hurting shape because they are supporting both.  So that makes 94% hurting.
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: kathyp on October 07, 2019, 11:58:18 am
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Only 6% of the country is in the "haves" category.  Maybe 13-14% are in the "have-nots" category.  The rest of the country is in hurting shape because they are supporting both.  So that makes 94% hurting.

Depends on how you define "haves".  I have all I need and more, but I am in the middle.  The comfortable end of the middle, but still the middle.

The poverty rate, no matter what the government has done or is doing, runs around 12%.  According to the census bureau, it is currently below 12%.  Remember that our stats cover US territories as well as states.  We have spent trillions on the "War on Poverty", yet the % of people defined as poor remains the same.  Maybe we are doing it wrong? Or maybe there will always be a % of people living in poverty for one reason or another?  It is also important to remember that while the % is static, the members of the population are not.  People move in and out of both wealth and poverty.

Median middle-class income is up.
https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/12/us/census-median-income-poverty/index.html

Job prospects are better with the ability to find a job that both pays more and has better income. 

While there are, and always will be, pockets of the economy that suffer, overall, people are doing better. 

If you think things are not going well, what changes would you make?

Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: Michael Bush on October 07, 2019, 12:53:24 pm
Ask anyone if they have it better than their grandparents.  Virtually everyone does.  My Grandpa was barely making a living shoveling coal 16 hours a day when he was a young man.  I was pretty poor when I was young and just married, but never had to do that.  I don't think I even could have and I had a lot of stamina...  Virtually everyone is better off than their Grandparents and usually better off than their parents.
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: Michael Bush on October 07, 2019, 12:59:56 pm
Cameron: Okay Ferris, can we just let it go, please?
Sloane: Ferris, please. You've gone too far. We're going to get busted.
Ferris: A: You can never go too far. B: If I'm gonna get busted, it is not gonna be by a guy like that.
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: iddee on October 07, 2019, 02:17:20 pm
""Neither you or me are a haves or have-nots.""

""Where in the constitution does it say the government should support the stock market that only benefits the haves?

The market is benefiting me. Am I a haves or am I not? Make up your mind. Also, if the stock actually collapsed, where would ALL, the haves, thhe have-nots, and all others get their food and supplies? Think 1930, and worse.

""Very good! So now that the illegals are walled off from entering you can get 25 cents an hour more for picking fruits and vegetables.  Wonderful, just it time for your apple crop.""

11 million plus illegals here now and more coming daily. Just how many does it take to pick our fruits and vegetables? 

ACE, PLEASE, GET JUST A LITTLE BIT BELIEVABLE.  You're starting to sound like adam shifft.  OOPS. 2 mistakes. Didn't use capitals and hit the f instead of the t.
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: kathyp on October 07, 2019, 04:59:14 pm
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11 million plus illegals here now and more coming daily.

And that number is from years ago.  Never updated.  Estimates put the number now at well over 20 million. 
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: incognito on October 07, 2019, 07:22:24 pm
Presidents in general are given waaaaayyy too much credit or blame for ups and downs in the business cycle.
That being said, some amount of credit is earned and blame deserved.
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: incognito on October 07, 2019, 07:29:17 pm
The have nots in the United States have more than most of the world's population.
We take for granted the improvements in lifestyle and health gained over the past 75 - 100 years, yet we still complain.
Increases in life expectancy is a great measure of progress.
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: herbhome on October 07, 2019, 08:07:56 pm
The have nots in the United States have more than most of the world's population.
We take for granted the improvements in lifestyle and health gained over the past 75 - 100 years, yet we still complain.
Increases in life expectancy is a great measure of progress.


Ditto
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: Ben Framed on October 07, 2019, 10:35:51 pm
The have nots in the United States have more than most of the world's population.
We take for granted the improvements in lifestyle and health gained over the past 75 - 100 years, yet we still complain.
Increases in life expectancy is a great measure of progress.


Ditto

Actually many have nots in the USA have it better than the richest kings of the world of old, (in many ways), if we are comparing to time before electricity, modern medicine, etc.
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: sawdstmakr on October 08, 2019, 06:58:56 am
The have nots in the United States have more than most of the world's population.
We take for granted the improvements in lifestyle and health gained over the past 75 - 100 years, yet we still complain.
Increases in life expectancy is a great measure of progress.

We throw parents in jail here for letting their children live in conditions that are way better than most children around the world live in.
Jim Altmiller
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: salvo on October 08, 2019, 07:16:40 am
Hi Folks,

I saw a little meme a few days ago:

Some kids cry for a I-Phone.

Some children cry for food.

Remember when we were kids:^Eat your supper! Clean your plate. There are kids in the world that are starving.^

Parents don't say that anymore.

Sal
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: Acebird on October 08, 2019, 09:30:34 am

While there are, and always will be, pockets of the economy that suffer, overall, people are doing better. 
Although a year to year statistic doesn't tell the real story this is what you call better?
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Young Americans, age 15 to 24, saw their median income drop 5.8%,
Sure, while all of my brother and sisters did better then our parents and grandparents that is not true for all of our children and Lord knows how bad it will be for their children.  I think this trend is quite common.
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If you think things are not going well, what changes would you make?
In a dream world if I could make the changes...
HEALTHCARE  Remove employee provided healthcare.  It gives an unfair advantage to larger companies.  It makes it much harder to start a business.  Remove the special benefits from all government employees.
EDUCATION  Equalize the standards across the nation for public schools.  If the well to do want something better they can send their kids to charter schools that have no government assistance of any kind.  I like the idea of community colleges.  Low cost funding should be provided on a 3 month basis for grades C and above.
MANUFACTURING/ TAXES  No tax on companies that produce goods with american workers.  A flat income tax rate.  No filing taxes.

INFRASTRUCTURE  A new branch of the government.  Government take over of our rail system eliminating cross country trucking.  Government take over of our power grid.  NO government funding to private enterprises.
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: Ben Framed on October 08, 2019, 10:03:42 am
Ace I have considered the rail system and it?s advantages and disadvantages myself. Even back in the days of old, we had the old mule skinners (teamsters), which picked up loads of goods at the rail heads and distributed to smaller towns and communities throughout.  This system worked pretty well back in the day. Now in our modern times, the rail systems would need to be vastly improved along with many, many new rail roads built just to achieve a basic moving system. A major undertaking. Even still, trucking would be heavily required to move these goods from rail heads, which rail head sizes would be mind boggling, to the desired locations. We are talking a major undertaking. Probably more money than can be mustered. This would have to be done with some government backing but led by private citizens such as Leland Stanford did back in the day. Public stock and trading would have to be included. I just do not see it happening. The only man that could have an inkling off chance of building such a program as a private citizen, would be Donald Trump and he is to old to start. And too busy fighting the backward thinking ways of the Democrats and needed as our President It would take years.
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: incognito on October 08, 2019, 10:21:48 am
Brian,
In all sincerity, please explain to me why you feel the government is capable of taking over anything and would ultimately administer anything in a fair and efficient manner?
I am only a few years younger than you and I have reached the opposite conclusion in my years of watching the government in action.
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: Michael Bush on October 08, 2019, 12:59:22 pm
>HEALTHCARE  Remove employee provided healthcare.  It gives an unfair advantage to larger companies.  It makes it much harder to start a business.  Remove the special benefits from all government employees.

It does cause a lot of complexities and problems that healthcare is tied to employement.  I'm a contractor and change employees all the time and every time it changes my health insurance, dental insurance etc.  But as an individual I can't negotiate as good of a rate.  Not even close.

>EDUCATION  Equalize the standards across the nation for public schools.  If the well to do want something better they can send their kids to charter schools that have no government assistance of any kind.  I like the idea of community colleges.  Low cost funding should be provided on a 3 month basis for grades C and above.

Better yet, let's just standardize some tests for a bacherlor and master and doctorate like we have for a GED.  Then you can just study on your own or go on youtube and watch lectures until you can pass the test.  If you did that and didn't charge for the tests, then you would have free education including free college.

>MANUFACTURING/ TAXES  No tax on companies that produce goods with american workers.  A flat income tax rate.  No filing taxes.

Not a bad idea.  Paul Harvey was fond of saying you can't tax a corporation anyway.  They just pass the tax on to their consumer in the price of the product.

>INFRASTRUCTURE  A new branch of the government.  Government take over of our rail system eliminating cross country trucking.  Government take over of our power grid.  NO government funding to private enterprises.

I do find the wear and tear on highways, especially the "grooves" in asphalt highways from trucks frustrating and the cost of maintaining the highways for the trucks is very expensive.  Truckers think it's bad to subsidize the railroads but if the truckers had to build and maintain their own roads they would not be in business.  But I'm not sure I want to get the government involved in preventing and policing truckers to make sure they aren't going cross country.  You could subsidize the railroads enough to compensate.
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: kathyp on October 08, 2019, 01:10:37 pm
Have you considered WHY younger people might be earning less?  let me give you an example:  My 19 year old granddaughter is living with us while she works and goes to school.  Our minimum wage was just jacked up and our state still holds to the Obama-care requirements for providing insurance.  The solution for her employer is that no one on the payroll other than the supers gets full time work.  It is cheaper to have multiple part time workers.  In her age range, very few people have skills that will earn more than minimum wage unless they have started in a trade.  Minimum wage workers are pretty easy to come by.


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In a dream world if I could make the changes...
HEALTHCARE  Remove employee provided healthcare.  It gives an unfair advantage to larger companies.  It makes it much harder to start a business.  Remove the special benefits from all government employees.
EDUCATION  Equalize the standards across the nation for public schools.  If the well to do want something better they can send their kids to charter schools that have no government assistance of any kind.  I like the idea of community colleges.  Low cost funding should be provided on a 3 month basis for grades C and above.
MANUFACTURING/ TAXES  No tax on companies that produce goods with american workers.  A flat income tax rate.  No filing taxes.

INFRASTRUCTURE  A new branch of the government.  Government take over of our rail system eliminating cross country trucking.  Government take over of our power grid.  NO government funding to private enterprises.

I agree with you that employer-provided health care is one of the worst things ever demanded by employees.  We would have a far more efficient and cost-effective system if we had competition in healthcare insurance and if we had a cash-based system for most services.  Part of the problem is the state mandates on what insurance must cover.  Another part is that we can't shop for healthcare insurance in the same way we shop for auto insurance.

We have tried equalizing standards with No Child Left Behind.  It didn't work.  There are a number of reasons it didn't work.  A better way to make education more effective is to allow the tax dollars to go with the child.  In that way, the family can pick the best education system for their child.  Teachers' unions hate this idea.  Public schools hate this idea.  It would cause competition and they would have to actually teach kids in order to keep kids.

I agree that we should have a flat tax that is paid by every person that has a source of income.  Welfare, etc. should be taxed at the same % as everything else.  If you are paying taxes, you care where your money is spent.  If you are living on OPM, you don't. 

The last thing on earth we need is another government department of waste.  Amtrak is subsidized and it is horrible.  It is expensive, unreliable, and often unsafe. 
Freight rail often gets federal and state money for projects, and it certainly was helped in the distant past by favorable land grants, etc.  That said, the freight system is private and runs on profit, not government money.  It is efficient, safe, and for the most part, well run.  It has limitations.  Because of the size of this country, it is not possible for freight to be delivered by train all around the country.  Truckes are the only answer and can't be done away with.

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Government take over of our power grid.  NO government funding to private enterprises.

No on the first.  Yes on the second.

On the power grid, assuming you are talking about a federal government takeover, that's a big no.  It would not be more efficient, it would not control cost.  PUCs, states, and private companies are accountable to the people who use the service.  The feds are accountable to no one.  If my power goes out, my local company is out here to fix it quickly. 

Imagine trying to get service from a federally run power provider! Maybe you can give me an example of a federally run anything that responds quickly to the "customers" needs?

The one thing the feds could do is facilitate the upgrading of the grid.  This is a national security issue and within their wheelhouse.  Instead, they worry about roads and bridges, most of which should be taken care of by states. 



Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: Acebird on October 09, 2019, 05:31:00 pm
Minimum wage workers are pretty easy to come by.
Nothing could be further from the truth.  No child that has been spoon fed wants a minimum wage job, part time or full time.  No child cares about benefits.  They don't look ahead

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Another part is that we can't shop for healthcare insurance in the same way we shop for auto insurance.
In most states auto insurance is required.  In some areas competition is lost if you are forced to have it.
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We have tried equalizing standards with No Child Left Behind.
Well you are not listening.  I didn't say No child Left Behind.  That is not equalizing standards.

Welfare, etc. should be taxed at the same % as everything else.  Taxing Welfare is like taxing Social Security.  It results in money lost.  Just decrease the benefit and forget filing taxes.

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Amtrak is subsidized and it is horrible.  It is expensive, unreliable, and often unsafe. 
Again you are not listening.  No subsidies.
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Freight rail often gets federal and state money for projects, and it certainly was helped in the distant past by favorable land grants, etc.  That said, the freight system is private and runs on profit, not government money.  It is efficient, safe, and for the most part, well run.  It has limitations.  Because of the size of this country, it is not possible for freight to be delivered by train all around the country.  Truckes are the only answer and can't be done away with.
I didn't say do away with trucking it is needed for the short hall but definitely not needed for long halls.  Our rail system is the worst in the developed world.  Not efficient, not safe and not run well.  Benefits and way over paid work force make it a sin.

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Imagine trying to get service from a federally run power provider! Maybe you can give me an example of a federally run anything that responds quickly to the "customers" needs?
  FEMA, Federal Reserve, FBI,  CIA, CDC.  Who puts out your forest fires?  The biggest problem with any government provider is they can't fire their workers for non performance.  Mostly a union issue.

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The one thing the feds could do is facilitate the upgrading of the grid.  This is a national security issue and within their wheelhouse.  Instead, they worry about roads and bridges, most of which should be taken care of by states.
That is because of the trucks.  If we were dependent on rail instead of trucking it would be a different story.  The roads are not built for tourist although NY has used their roads as an advantage for tourism.
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: kathyp on October 09, 2019, 07:19:28 pm
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Nothing could be further from the truth.  No child that has been spoon fed wants a minimum wage job, part time or full time.

In the low skill category, which should be the younger kids and those going to school, there are an abundant number of minimum wage workers.  One would hope that they don't want to stay in a minimum wage job.  Everyone has to start somewhere. 

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In most states auto insurance is required.  In some areas competition is lost if you are forced to have it.

But you have choices.  you can buy your insurance from any company anywhere.  Competition. 

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Well you are not listening.  I didn't say No child Left Behind.  That is not equalizing standards.

Welfare, etc. should be taxed at the same % as everything else.  Taxing Welfare is like taxing Social Security.  It results in money lost.  Just decrease the benefit and forget filing taxes.

NCLB was an attempt to equalize standards.  It failed for any number of reasons.  It really doesn't matter whether you mandate the material or the outcome. 

The reason for taxing welfare is not to generate revenue.  It is to make people care about where their money is going.  If you don't pay in, but you are given stuff, you don't really care as long as you get the stuff. 

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Again you are not listening.  No subsidies.

Not sure of your train point then.  companies are going to do what makes money.  They are not going to run lines that don't pay. 

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Our rail system is the worst in the developed world.  Not efficient, not safe and not run well.  Benefits and way over paid work force make it a sin.

I don't think this is true given the size of the country and the amount of good moved, but if it is, what is your solution?

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FEMA, Federal Reserve, FBI,  CIA, CDC.  Who puts out your forest fires?  The biggest problem with any government provider is they can't fire their workers for non performance.  Mostly a union issue.

Having worked with a number of those agencies, I think you and I have a different definition of efficient and responsive!

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That is because of the trucks.  If we were dependent on rail instead of trucking it would be a different story.  The roads are not built for tourist although NY has used their roads as an advantage for tourism.

No, it is because state governments have used the money they take in for roads, usually a gas tax, for everything but roads.  The worst roads around here never see a big truck.  Drive the roads of CA, and they are horrible and not because of trucks. 
Once states like CA and mine stopped doing dedicated taxes the revenue pot became a slush fund for everyone to stick in a hand.  CA used to have some of the best roads in the country, but the gas tax was dedicated to roads and could not be used for anything else. 
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: Acebird on October 10, 2019, 10:14:52 am
In the low skill category, which should be the younger kids and those going to school, there are an abundant number of minimum wage workers.
Maybe my area is different than yours but minimum wage service jobs have help wanted signs up permanently.  Fast food industry they never go down.

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But you have choices.  you can buy your insurance from any company anywhere.
  Sometimes.  Insurance companies are regulated to protect the big guys.  Not all companies can provide insurance in all states.  Same with health care.

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The reason for taxing welfare is not to generate revenue.  It is to make people care about where their money is going.  If you don't pay in, but you are given stuff, you don't really care as long as you get the stuff. 
The only way they are going to care is if they have to pay it back.  And before you say they have no way to pay it back, they could be building rail roads.

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Not sure of your train point then.  companies are going to do what makes money.  They are not going to run lines that don't pay. 
That is why independent railroads will never work.  You end up with antiquated systems.  If you left it up to independent companies to build roads you would have dirt roads everywhere and no interstates.  And no trucking for that matter.  One of the things that made New York the empire state is the building of the canal system.  Barely anything is transported by canal anymore.  BECAUSE OF THE ROADS.  The country needs to take over not subsidize rail.  Pay the owners for the land and that is it.  Build high speed automated trains.  No people getting stoned coming to work and driving a train into another or flying off the track because they fell asleep.  No trains crashing into others because mistakes at track switching.
I agree with you about governments regulating monopolies.  It doesn't seem to work.  I think government would be better at owning monopolies.  But there can't be any unions.

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I don't think this is true given the size of the country and the amount of good moved, but if it is, what is your solution?
China is doing it and they are 10 times our size.  They also make most of the goods.

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No, it is because state governments have used the money they take in for roads, usually a gas tax, for everything but roads.

And NY has an independent through-way system where the tolls were suppose to cover maintenance.  Then a bridge fell down and killed a few people.  With a profit based company maintenance is the first to suffer.  You see this everywhere.  People die the company goes under and then a new company starts the process all over again.
Nothing degrades any faster then when private enterprise is involved in a monopoly.  Everything is short term decisions.  The only curb to the degradation is very heavy regulation which is costly and breads corruption.
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: Ben Framed on October 10, 2019, 03:08:38 pm
Brian don?t get mad at what I am about to ask as I am only kidding . Are you also in favor of building a high speed train to Hawaii like the brilliant democrat Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez?  😁😊.   J/K. I know you know better than that. I am not comparing you to that dingbat.  I for one would like to see an efficient rail system. I just do not think it is in the realm of reasonable possibilities for some of the reasons that I stated earlier, but I could be wrong. 
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: kathyp on October 11, 2019, 01:48:39 pm
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Nothing degrades any faster then when private enterprise is involved in a monopoly.  Everything is short term decisions.  The only curb to the degradation is very heavy regulation which is costly and breads corruption.

Sit down before you read this  because I agree with a lot of what you posted. 

There are places where this is true and the best current example is probably PGE in CA.  They have a monopoly.  They did not upgrade the grid.  They made a lot of money.  They got sued for some of the fires, and now they are punishing the people by turning off the electricity. 

BUT, what is interesting is that the state could have stepped in on this and didn't.  Why didn't they?  My brother had an interesting take on it.  He thinks the state will essentially nationalize the power company and take over.  They will take the profit, which they need right now for all of the stuff they have promised. 
Will that make the grid safer or get it upgraded?  No.  What it will do in ensure that the money goes to the state which will be shielded from being sued, and make sure that nothing is ever improved. 

So yes, a private company with a monopoly can be a bad thing.  However, it is no worse than a government with a monopoly.  Either way, the consumer/citizen loses. 
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: Acebird on October 11, 2019, 06:04:09 pm
Are you also in favor of building a high speed train to Hawaii like the brilliant democrat Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez?
I haven't heard that from her but certainly not.  Hawaii doesn't need high speed for shipping and why wouldn't you use a plane or boat for the small amount that needs speed?
On a side note I will take the inexperienced young people with crazy ideas any day over the old corrupt cronies that we have now.  The young people you can reason with.  They are trying to make America great but lack some direction on how to do it.  Never make fun of a crazy idea so many of them are before their time.
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: Acebird on October 11, 2019, 06:18:04 pm
However, it is no worse than a government with a monopoly.  Either way, the consumer/citizen loses.
I totally disagree.  If you could some how eliminate lobbying.  Take influential money out of the picture I think government will work well.  It answers to the people as long as money, bribes, corruption is not involved.  If for instance the fore fathers were poor instead of rich they would have wrote that into our constitution.  But money, bribes, and corruption is what they are use to so they wanted that game in our government.
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: kathyp on October 11, 2019, 07:26:47 pm
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Take influential money out of the picture I think government will work well.  It answers to the people as long as money, bribes, corruption is not involved.

Really?  On what do you base this?  The government that should be answerable to the people is your state government.  Is it?  Assume you took all the lobbying out of government...AARP, ACLU, etc.  How responsive do you think that would make the government to the individual? 

If you want a more responsive government the first thing you have to do is make it much, much, smaller.  If it was doing only want it is constitutionally tasked with doing, you and I would not really care much about what went on in DC because it would not impact us.  We could concentrate on making our states what we want them to be.
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: iddee on October 11, 2019, 08:27:19 pm
""If you could some how eliminate lobbying.  Take influential money out of the picture I think government will work well.""

IF frogs had wings, they wouldn't bump their butts every time they hopped.
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: Troutdog on October 12, 2019, 08:52:51 am
If I only had a brain........
Pointless wallowing in libtard mud.


Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: Acebird on October 12, 2019, 08:53:37 am
We could concentrate on making our states what we want them to be.
That would make us tiny little countries having skirmishes like you see in the rest of the world.  The United States can only be great if it is united.  That is why he ain't ever going to make America Great again.
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: Acebird on October 12, 2019, 08:58:55 am
If I only had a brain........
Pointless wallowing in libtard mud.


Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
Name calling is an indication of ignorance.
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: Ben Framed on October 12, 2019, 09:30:35 am
We could concentrate on making our states what we want them to be.
That would make us tiny little countries having skirmishes like you see in the rest of the world.  The United States can only be great if it is united.  That is why he ain't ever going to make America Great again.

Ace, Mr Trump is doing everything humanly possible to try and bring America and our Citizens together, Citizens of every race and gender. At every turn of every good thing he does, while fighting tooth and nail, keeping his campaign promises, stands the democrats trying to block him. Did you not hear his speech last night in Louisiana?
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: Ben Framed on October 12, 2019, 10:40:30 am
Mr Trump once again  reminded Louisiana, America, and the World  last night, that he and his team of elected officials and with his cabinet, (he just said WE), are putting America first.  7 million Americans have been lifted off of food stamps. Since the election. Unemployment has reached its lowest rate in 50 years, unemployment for African Americans, Hispanic Americans, and Asian Americans, have hit the all time lowest rates in the history of our country. Wages are rising fast and they are growing twice as fast for low income workers, they have the biggest percentage increase. 1.3 million fewer children live in poverty than when Mr Trump was elected, 1.3 million people.  He cut a record number of job killing regulations.  He and his team, (he again said WE), have passed the largest package of tax cuts and reforms in American History. Nearly a trillion dollars has already been poured back home.  It?s coming back in. People had their money in other places and couldn?t bring it back in, it was prohibited the legislation was impossible but he and his team got rid of it, (again he said  WE), got rid of it.  Over  a TRILLION dollars has been brought back in and it?s being spent  building right here in the United States instead building over seas. Meanwhile THE  DEMOCRATS running for president have pledged to abolish American production of oil and natural gas. Oh that's wonderful !  In other words Democrats are promising to  annihilate  the Louisiana  economy he said.
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: kathyp on October 12, 2019, 12:44:16 pm
Quote
That would make us tiny little countries having skirmishes like you see in the rest of the world.  The United States can only be great if it is united.  That is why he ain't ever going to make America Great again.

No, it would take us back to the ways we were designed and ran perfectly well for many decades.  The federal government does have a role.  It is supposed to be a limited role.  States are states so that people can design the environment in which they wish to live AND hold the people they elect accountable.  None of that can be done with an all powerful federal government.

 Following your line of logic, we should do away with states.  What is the point?
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: cidersabuzzin on October 12, 2019, 08:03:01 pm
Kathy
I know this may sound naive but why have the states not returned power to the people?
....Or....is "there something rotten in the state of Denmark"?
Or even more so, could Acebird be right! :smile:
cider
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: Acebird on October 13, 2019, 09:28:36 am
Following your line of logic, we should do away with states.  What is the point?

The point is to have a local government just like a county or city.  Should we dissolve all of them?  When issues become a national interest it should be federal.  Governments should work together for common cause.  How long do you think the country would last if all it had was State militias?  And for that matter which states do you think would last if there was no federal government?
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: Acebird on October 13, 2019, 09:34:50 am
Did you not hear his speech last night in Louisiana?
Why would I listen to an individual that is a documented liar?
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: iddee on October 13, 2019, 09:46:01 am
""Why would I listen to an individual that is a documented liar?



You already do..........
Nadler
Shiff
Pelosi,
Comey
Hillary
Barry

ETC. ETC.

Why not one more?
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: kathyp on October 13, 2019, 12:26:55 pm
Clapper
Brennan

Both lied to congress and got caught, but nothing was done to them
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: Acebird on October 14, 2019, 08:39:27 am
""Why would I listen to an individual that is a documented liar?



You already do..........
Nadler
Shiff
Pelosi,
Comey
Hillary
Barry

ETC. ETC.

Why not one more?
These people have supporting evidence to support their claims otherwise I wouldn't.
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: iddee on October 14, 2019, 09:49:26 am
Have you lost it completely? Most of them have come out publicly and admitted they were lying. No possible supportive evidence when they are proven liars to the point they admit it.
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: Ben Framed on October 14, 2019, 10:47:58 am
Clapper
Brennan

Both lied to congress and got caught, but nothing was done to them

Yes especially these two. And look what they are doing to the Patriot Roger Stone.
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: cidersabuzzin on October 14, 2019, 02:49:47 pm
Mr Trump once again  reminded Louisiana, America, and the World  last night, that he and his team of elected officials and with his cabinet, (he just said WE), are putting America first.  7 million Americans have been lifted off of food stamps. Since the election. Unemployment has reached its lowest rate in 50 years, unemployment for African Americans, Hispanic Americans, and Asian Americans, have hit the all time lowest rates in the history of our country. Wages are rising fast and they are growing twice as fast for low income workers, they have the biggest percentage increase. 1.3 million fewer children live in poverty than when Mr Trump was elected, 1.3 million people.  He cut a record number of job killing regulations.  He and his team, (he again said WE), have passed the largest package of tax cuts and reforms in American History. Nearly a trillion dollars has already been poured back home.  It?s coming back in. People had their money in other places and couldn?t bring it back in, it was prohibited the legislation was impossible but he and his team got rid of it, (again he said  WE), got rid of it.  Over  a TRILLION dollars has been brought back in and it?s being spent  building right here in the United States instead building over seas. Meanwhile THE  DEMOCRATS running for president have pledged to abolish American production of oil and natural gas. Oh that's wonderful !  In other words Democrats are promising to  annihilate  the Louisiana  economy he said.

Meanwhile.........https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/oct/13/iowa-trump-joni-ernst-senate-seat-unsteady
'tis all unravelling :cheesy:
cider TY
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: Acebird on October 15, 2019, 08:31:54 am
Yeah, I can't get my head around why Jim thinks farmers are doing great.  I suppose it is related to the belief that the american people elected Trump and not as a result of Russian intervention.
So the moron slaps china with tariffs and then ask for help in the next election?  Pure diplomacy.
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: kathyp on October 15, 2019, 02:14:48 pm
Quote
Yeah, I can't get my head around why Jim thinks farmers are doing great.  I suppose it is related to the belief that the american people elected Trump and not as a result of Russian intervention.
So the moron slaps china with tariffs and then ask for help in the next election?  Pure diplomacy.

Your kind of thinking is the very reason we have allowed China to do the trade manipulation they have done.  "We can't fix it because someone might get hurt".  Yes, fixing this mess is going to hurt.  We should not have done most of the trade deals we have done, the way we have done them, since WW2. 

Is it your position that we should just carry on allowing the imbalance and currency manipulation that has been the norm of the past?
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: Acebird on October 15, 2019, 06:14:02 pm
Is it your position that we should just carry on allowing the imbalance and currency manipulation that has been the norm of the past?
Absolutely not.  The point is he can barely speak at a third grade level.  The problem will not be solved by someone with such a low level of intelligence.  It is a difficult problem that should be solved by a team and not someone hip shooting his way in thumbing his nose at the world.  The country needs to get off the dependency of China just like the dependency of oil.
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: kathyp on October 15, 2019, 07:33:41 pm
Quote
The point is he can barely speak at a third grade level.  The problem will not be solved by someone with such a low level of intelligence.  It is a difficult problem that should be solved by a team and not someone hip shooting his way in thumbing his nose at the world.

This has gone on for decades using the standard diplomatic scolding.  It has not changed.  Seems like trying a different thing is called for?
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: iddee on October 15, 2019, 08:56:40 pm
China just last week agreed to purchase 50 billion dollars worth of grain from us. The only hurt I see on the farmers is back problems from carrying that much money. As for education and intelligence, that man has more smarts in his little finger than you and I have in both our bodies.
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: Acebird on October 16, 2019, 08:39:38 am
I would like to hear it from a Chinese official what the deal was and not from a liar.  So far the BBC has not disclosed any makings of the deal.  It probably never happened.
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: iddee on October 16, 2019, 09:03:15 am
If you would believe the Chinese, you are really beyond help.
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: Acebird on October 16, 2019, 05:41:30 pm
If you would believe the Chinese, you are really beyond help.
I don't take anybodies word for anything.  But the last person I would believe is one who is know as a pathological liar.
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: iddee on October 16, 2019, 07:14:14 pm
Refer to reply #115 and 116.
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: Acebird on October 17, 2019, 09:09:18 am
The world doesn't agree with your list.  The list only comes up when Trump or a Trump supporter is trying to change the subject of the obvious.
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: iddee on October 17, 2019, 11:46:55 am
The "world" does agree. The "media and the far left" doesn't agree. It's exactly that way with most truths these days.
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: cidersabuzzin on November 14, 2019, 05:33:14 am
The "world" does agree. The "media and the far left" doesn't agree. It's exactly that way with most truths these days.

In a slightly different context, is the G&T drifting deeper into it? :wink:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-50395015
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: iddee on November 14, 2019, 06:36:17 am
""President Donald Trump directly asked about a Ukrainian investigation into his Democratic rival Joe Biden, a top US diplomat has unveiled.""

So now it is against federal law for a president to ask another country's president if a citizen is being investigated?? HA HA


"Bill Taylor, the acting ambassador to Ukraine, told an impeachment inquiry that a member of his staff was told Mr Trump was keen to push for the probe."

My cousin said his friend's girlfriend said Cider was bad in bed. Does that make it true?
 :shocked:  :cheesy: :cheesy:

"Mr Trump says he does not recall making the remark. He denies any wrongdoing."

He probably didn't. Third or fourth hand gossip. AKA "fke news".

"Mr Biden hopes to run against Mr Trump next year. It is illegal to ask foreign entities for help to win an election."

:Is it also against the law to ask a foreign government to help catch an international crook? I don't think so."


""He is accused of withholding US military aid to Ukraine in order to pressure the country's new president to publicly announce a corruption inquiry into Mr Biden.""

"He sent military aid after Obummer sent only blankets. Maybe to wrap the bodies in?"
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: cidersabuzzin on November 14, 2019, 06:56:08 am
My cousin said his friend's girlfriend said Cider was bad in bed. Does that make it true?
:shocked:  :cheesy:

Can I sue for libel over the above?  :shocked: In actual fact your compounding it by posting it in a public forum! :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: iddee on November 14, 2019, 07:20:21 am
You can sue, mary, annie, carolyn, or whatever you want to do. Just be sure to have adam schitt for your star witness so I will be sure to win.   :cheesy: :cheesy: :cheesy:
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: Michael Bush on November 14, 2019, 08:57:42 am
I really loved when Taylor admitted he NEVER talked to Trump and that the Ukrainian president did not know he was being coerced until he read it on Politico.  Trump is really not doing a very good job of extortion if the victim doesn't even know they are being extorted...  I really liked when Taylor was read the testimony from Sondland as Taylor was explaining his impression that he got from Sondland, which Sondland says he got from Taylor, both of which said that Taylor's aid overheard some phone call (which Taylor says was Sondland and Trump but Sondland doesn't say one way or the other).  It's a whole chain of not even hearsay, but impressions based on hearsay and the hearsay is not even once removed... but two or three times removed. I did not hear one piece of testimony that would be admissible in a trial.  It's all hearsay and "my impression was..." and a lot of blap about how important the Ukraine is, which is not what the point is at all.  But in the end everyone hears what they want to hear.
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: incognito on November 14, 2019, 09:23:02 am
But in the end everyone hears what they want to hear.

^^^ This  ^^^
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: Acebird on November 14, 2019, 09:26:04 am
I really loved when Taylor admitted he NEVER talked to Trump and that the Ukrainian president did not know he was being coerced until he read it on Politico. 
LOL Mike I wonder what you would say if I was holding a gun to your head or maybe someone in your immediate family?  When someone is being extorted or bribed what they say may not be the truth until the one doing the extortion is behind bars.
"The fat lady has not sung."  Be patient.
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: sawdstmakr on November 14, 2019, 09:31:59 am
Ace. We are being patient. We are waiting for Hillary and all the other corruption politicians to go to jail.
Jim Altmiller
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: incognito on November 14, 2019, 09:32:41 am
She has not sung but the lyrics have been written.

The House impeaches Trump.
The Senate does not hold him accountable.
We hear the song over and over and over and over timed to play like an ear worm through the 2020 election cycle.
The question is does the encore help or hurt the Democrats win swing votes.
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: incognito on November 14, 2019, 09:42:51 am
Ace. We are being patient. We are waiting for Hillary and all the other corruption politicians to go to jail.
Jim Altmiller
It happens, but rarely. I have learned to live with that reality.
The revelation that I have not yet accepted is the CIA's, FBI's and Justice Department's interference in the democratic process. Those are the ones that need to go to jail to send a message of deterrence.

Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: iddee on November 14, 2019, 09:46:09 am
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Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: sawdstmakr on November 14, 2019, 11:00:43 am
Ace. We are being patient. We are waiting for Hillary and all the other corruption politicians to go to jail.
Jim Altmiller
It happens, but rarely. I have learned to live with that reality.
The revelation that I have not yet accepted is the CIA's, FBI's and Justice Department's interference in the democratic process. Those are the ones that need to go to jail to send a message of deterrence.


Ace,
I could not aggree with you more.
We also need to go after politicians that we have evidence that they broke the law.
Jim Altmiller
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: jvalentour on November 14, 2019, 12:00:55 pm
My bet is the House drops impeachment and votes to censure.
That way they save face.

Then they will invent another "scandal".
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: kathyp on November 14, 2019, 12:10:06 pm
Quote
My bet is the House drops impeachment and votes to censure.
That way they save face.

I am not sure they will at this point unless they run out of witnesses.  I think this has as much to do with their fear that RBG is going to die soon.  Their argument will be that a president under investigation should not be allowed to appoint a new Justice for the SCOTUS.

IDK.  I do know that I had to drink a pot of coffee to stay awake for 5 hours and watch that snooze fest yesterday   :grin:
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: Michael Bush on November 14, 2019, 12:16:48 pm
>Be patient.

They've had an impeachment in search of a crime now since Nov 9, 2016... I've been patient...
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: jvalentour on November 14, 2019, 12:24:01 pm
I agree about the RBG aspect.  I have thought as much for awhile.  I wouldn't be surprised if democrats get daily health updates on RBG.

You can't help notice that the IG report and Burr's investigation were to be released this month. 
I feel it's too far from the general election to be useful for the democrats to affect the election, I think it's something going on soon to divert public attention. 

In October 2020 there will be another scandal, maybe one between then and now.
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: incognito on November 14, 2019, 12:34:07 pm
In October 2020 there will be another scandal, maybe one between then and now.

My bet is that there is a backlog of already identified scandals, and they will be played out when strategically beneficial.
It is a shame that our representatives have nothing better to spend their time and our tax dollars on. How sad.
We need a third or fourth strong political party to change the dynamics of the system. This one is broken.
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: cidersabuzzin on November 14, 2019, 02:00:46 pm
In October 2020 there will be another scandal, maybe one between then and now.

My bet is that there is a backlog of already identified scandals, and they will be played out when strategically beneficial.
It is a shame that our representatives have nothing better to spend their time and our tax dollars on. How sad.
We need a third or fourth strong political party to change the dynamics of the system. This one is broken.

Or even Acebirds 'revolution'! :wink:
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: Acebird on November 14, 2019, 05:59:08 pm
The question is does the encore help or hurt the Democrats win swing votes.
The swing votes are already there if the democrats did nothing.  The swing votes that Trump got were votes in his favor because they didn't like Hillary.  Hillary is not running in 2020 and the swing votes have had a change of heart in the first 6 months of Trumps presidency.  All the democrats have to do is get people to vote.  Trump's base has not changed and it is very unlikely it will.
Cider we need a revolution for other reasons.
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: kathyp on November 14, 2019, 06:17:49 pm
Quote
All the democrats have to do is get people to vote.

If the Dems run someone like Warren, they will lose again.  Not only is she as screechy, but her ideology is whack.  There is nothing to recommend her over Trump.  While Bernie is popular among some, again, there is a huge chunk of middle America who will not embrace his leftist views.
who else is in the running that might be the nominee and is not equally leftist?  There are lot of people who may not like Trump the man but who are doing better under his admin than they have done in decades.  In the end, people vote for self-interest and I guarantee you that promises of free stuff in exchange for higher taxes are not going to swing most taxpayers to the left. 
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: incognito on November 14, 2019, 06:56:51 pm
It is impossible to predict the outcome 12 months from now. There are too many variables. The economy being the most important variable.
My guess is that there were a lot of reluctant Trumpers last election. He is no more of an embarrassment now than then and his results have not diminished his stature.
However; I am more outraged by recent Democratic leadership behavior than I am by Trump behavior. Neither party's members should be proud of their leadership. How can we be proud of the politicians with decades of time in Washington that have gotten us to where we are now? Are these experienced gurus tackling any serious issues? Not that I can see. Running a kangaroo court does not inspire confidence in me.

The cast of Democratic candidates rushing to the left will likely inspire more Republicans to vote for the right.


Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: Acebird on November 15, 2019, 09:16:28 am
There aren't enough republicans.  The right is going right and the left is going left.  What matters is what is the middle doing?  I think it is leaning left more then right.  The opposite it did in 2016.
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: Ben Framed on November 15, 2019, 10:02:35 am
There aren't enough republicans.  The right is going right and the left is going left.  What matters is what is the middle doing?  I think it is leaning left more then right.  The opposite it did in 2016.

It appears you may be right except the right is right and the left is ''wrong''  :grin:  But yes, I am thinking that you may be right about the country going to the left. It will eventually happen, all things have been set up and put into place starting in the 60's during the Kennedy Administration when they officially took God form the schools. Actually it may have started with Ensinhouser. Up until then We considered ourselves One Nation Under God Indivisible With Liberty and Justice For All. The under God part is the part that united us even for non believers there was a certain respect? Weather a child believed the teaching of God or not, it was their choice as weather to serve him. No one was forced to believe. Each had the freedom to embrace or not embrace.  Some brilliant thinkers decided to take the teaching of God out of the schools, even  though our schools for many many years and from the beginning was a shared building for both church and school, church on Sunday and school Monday through Friday. Our founding fathers advised us about the importance of God in our Nation, but we heeded not. Now the thinkers who consider themselves wise are having a hay-day in the school systems. Teaching the leftist views with no moral compass for the poor children to go by. How can we be undivided when we left God out?, the one center guidance that United Us as a Nation, the very thinking that gave us our freedom was founded on in the first place. No Ace you are right the country will fall and when it does it will probably be to late to turn back again. Mr Trump is doing all he can to preserve this heritage of freedom for all citizens but the left just will not have it. 

Donald starting his day.

[ You are not allowed to view attachments ]
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: Michael Bush on November 15, 2019, 10:42:30 am
Well, we all know what "polls" mean.  We proved that in the 2016 presidential election...
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: Ben Framed on November 15, 2019, 11:50:17 am
Well, we all know what "polls" mean.  We proved that in the 2016 presidential election...


You are right Mr. Bush, I agree. My previous post was in reference to future elections excluding 2020. I think we will be OK in 2020. And hopefully I am wrong about the future elections.
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: kathyp on November 15, 2019, 12:00:23 pm
I was a reluctant Trump voter.  I will be less reluctant the next time unless something changes radically.  I do not see anyone on the Dem side that I would vote for.  Tulsi Gabbard would be the closest possible and I am not fond of a lot of her positions.  As long as the Dems keep presenting far-left candidates when the country is not far left, they will not win...assuming people actually care about policies and do not vote for race, gender, or sexual orientation.   :cheesy:
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: Acebird on November 15, 2019, 06:00:42 pm
Well, we all know what "polls" mean.

Polls are good until the next event  comes along and changes people's mind.  If the Russian meddling didn't happen at the time it did Hillary would have been our president.  Now we all know now that Russia has not stopped meddling so I don't think they will be able to pull that trick again.  Even though Trump keeps asking for help.
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: kathyp on November 15, 2019, 07:34:24 pm
Quote
If the Russian meddling didn't happen at the time it did Hillary would have been our president.

In what way did they change the outcome of the election?  If they did, thank God.  I can't imagine listening to that screeching for 4 years!   :cheesy:

But seriously, what is your evidence that anything Russia did, impacted the outcome?  Seems to me Russia would have been far better off with Hillary as president than they are with Trump.  Guess they are just stupid?
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: sawdstmakr on November 15, 2019, 09:16:06 pm
Kathyp,
I agree totally. There is no way the Russians would have helped Trump, especially when they had been paying off Hillary and had to top control over her. I she turned on them they could have blacked mailed her, with all of the millions they paid her, to make her do what they wanted.
The DNC and the media know that enough of the American public is dumb enough to believe the that Russians helped Trump and were able to pull off that big lie for 2 years.
Jim Altmiller
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: Ben Framed on November 15, 2019, 10:00:35 pm
Kathyp,
I agree totally. There is no way the Russians would have helped Trump, especially when they had been paying off Hillary and had to top control over her. I she turned on them they could have blacked mailed her, with all of the millions they paid her, to make her do what they wanted.
The DNC and the media know that enough of the American public is dumb enough to believe the that Russians helped Trump and were able to pull off that big lie for 2 years.
Jim Altmiller

Jim I appreciate what you and Kathy are saying, at this point it appears it doesn?t matter what they do, or how they do it, how many subpoenaed emails are destroyed, how much uranium they peddle to our enemies. or how many secrets they sell to China, how many lies they tell to congress or how many lies congress tells to we the people. Though all is in the wide open and still no justice. They are the untouchables. No Justice. Sad
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: kathyp on November 15, 2019, 11:26:56 pm
Quote
They are the untouchables.

And it shouldn't be a surprise that they are.  They were known to be corrupt in AR and the AR mafia is not a figment of the rights imagination.  Collect enough info on people and you can control them.  Have no moral compass so that people know you will stop at nothing to destroy them and you have control.  Bill may have been a feckless perv, but Hillary is evil personified. 

What we can hope is that she has met her match with Trump.  All roads lead back to her and while I don't ever expect to see her perp-walked, I will be happy seeing her publically destroyed.
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: Acebird on November 16, 2019, 08:35:39 am
Kathy <Seems to me Russia would have been far better off with Hillary as president than they are with Trump.>
Really, what American president turned over a military base paid by american tax payers to the Russians without one shot fired?
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: iddee on November 16, 2019, 08:45:47 am
I don't know, Ace. You tell us. Bases in Germany, Japan, Italy, Guam, Philippines, etc. Which presidents turned them over to foreign countries?
Also, cite the law that gives a president sole power to give away a military base.
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: cidersabuzzin on November 16, 2019, 10:04:25 am
I don't know, Ace. You tell us. Bases in Germany, Japan, Italy, Guam, Philippines, etc. Which presidents turned them over to foreign countries?
Also, cite the law that gives a president sole power to give away a military base.
Surely military bases are only there with the consent of the country they are located in unless you occupy that country? Who else would he "give it away" to. Better maybe to Scorch earth it! :cheesy: 
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: Ben Framed on November 16, 2019, 10:29:50 am
I don't know, Ace. You tell us. Bases in Germany, Japan, Italy, Guam, Philippines, etc. Which presidents turned them over to foreign countries?
Also, cite the law that gives a president sole power to give away a military base.
Surely military bases are only there with the consent of the country they are located in unless you occupy that country? Who else would he "give it away" to. Better maybe to Scorch earth it! :cheesy:

Scorch earth? You know it from Peter, a man who walked and talked to Jesus daily.

2 Peter 3:10King James Version (KJV)
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

He goes on to say

11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Some will believe some will not.
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: sawdstmakr on November 16, 2019, 11:34:51 am
I don't know, Ace. You tell us. Bases in Germany, Japan, Italy, Guam, Philippines, etc. Which presidents turned them over to foreign countries?
Also, cite the law that gives a president sole power to give away a military base.
Surely military bases are only there with the consent of the country they are located in unless you occupy that country? Who else would he "give it away" to. Better maybe to Scorch earth it! :cheesy: 
Really,
So Gitmo Cuba doesn?t really exist.
Jim Altmiller
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: cidersabuzzin on November 16, 2019, 11:42:55 am
I don't know, Ace. You tell us. Bases in Germany, Japan, Italy, Guam, Philippines, etc. Which presidents turned them over to foreign countries?
Also, cite the law that gives a president sole power to give away a military base.
Surely military bases are only there with the consent of the country they are located in unless you occupy that country? Who else would he "give it away" to. Better maybe to Scorch earth it! :cheesy:

Scorch earth? You know it from Peter, a man who walked and talked to Jesus daily.

2 Peter 3:10King James Version (KJV)
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

He goes on to say

11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Some will believe some will not.
Ben not everything revolves around the bible maybe for you, but not everyone!
I was referring to a scorch earth policy as in completely destroying everything on a base so it is of no use to anyone taking it over. Not something you would do in an allied country though. :wink: 
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: kathyp on November 16, 2019, 12:00:54 pm
Quote
Surely military bases are only there with the consent of the country they are located in unless you occupy that country? Who else would he "give it away" to. Better maybe to Scorch earth it!

Consent and desire.  Since most of the countries, specifically the European countries, have no military to speak of, they have counted on our forward-deployed troops.  NATO was designed to deter Russia.  Now that the Europeans are willingly putting themselves at the mercy of Russia for thing like their natural gas, I am not sure the original premise is still valid. 

In the Pacific, we are there as a deterrent to China and to make sure shipping lanes stay open.  If countries in that area, like the Philippines, want to go it alone, I am fine with that. 

We are in countries that think we are of value to their security.  We are there so that we can act quickly and be where we are needed.  While I am not an isolationist, I am very happy to have other countries experiment with providing their own defense. 

Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: cidersabuzzin on November 16, 2019, 12:10:31 pm
I don't know, Ace. You tell us. Bases in Germany, Japan, Italy, Guam, Philippines, etc. Which presidents turned them over to foreign countries?
Also, cite the law that gives a president sole power to give away a military base.
Surely military bases are only there with the consent of the country they are located in unless you occupy that country? Who else would he "give it away" to. Better maybe to Scorch earth it! :cheesy: 
Really,
So Gitmo Cuba doesn?t really exist.
Jim Altmiller
Should that not read "should not exist"?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guantanamo_Bay_Naval_Base
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: kathyp on November 16, 2019, 02:15:05 pm
Quote
Should that not read "should not exist"?

Why should it not exist?  The only fault I find with it is that it is not full and does not have Old Smokey in the basement.
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: Ben Framed on November 16, 2019, 05:00:14 pm
I don't know, Ace. You tell us. Bases in Germany, Japan, Italy, Guam, Philippines, etc. Which presidents turned them over to foreign countries?
Also, cite the law that gives a president sole power to give away a military base.
Surely military bases are only there with the consent of the country they are located in unless you occupy that country? Who else would he "give it away" to. Better maybe to Scorch earth it! :cheesy:

Scorch earth? You know it from Peter, a man who walked and talked to Jesus daily.

2 Peter 3:10King James Version (KJV)
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

He goes on to say

11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Some will believe some will not.
Ben not everything revolves around the bible maybe for you, but not everyone!
I was referring to a scorch earth policy as in completely destroying everything on a base so it is of no use to anyone taking it over. Not something you would do in an allied country though. :wink:

 :wink:
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: sawdstmakr on November 16, 2019, 09:17:27 pm
 
I don't know, Ace. You tell us. Bases in Germany, Japan, Italy, Guam, Philippines, etc. Which presidents turned them over to foreign countries?
Also, cite the law that gives a president sole power to give away a military base.
Surely military bases are only there with the consent of the country they are located in unless you occupy that country? Who else would he "give it away" to. Better maybe to Scorch earth it! :cheesy: 
Really,
So Gitmo Cuba doesn?t really exist.
Jim Altmiller
Should that not read "should not exist"?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guantanamo_Bay_Naval_Base
No.
We have a base in the middle of our enemies land and you are saying that doesn?t happen.
Jim Altmiller
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: Ben Framed on November 16, 2019, 09:39:09 pm







.
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: cidersabuzzin on November 17, 2019, 05:57:04 am
I don't know, Ace. You tell us. Bases in Germany, Japan, Italy, Guam, Philippines, etc. Which presidents turned them over to foreign countries?
Also, cite the law that gives a president sole power to give away a military base.
Surely military bases are only there with the consent of the country they are located in unless you occupy that country? Who else would he "give it away" to. Better maybe to Scorch earth it! :cheesy: 


Really,
So Gitmo Cuba doesn?t really exist.
Jim Altmiller
Should that not read "should not exist"?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guantanamo_Bay_Naval_Base
No.
We have a base in the middle of our enemies land and you are saying that doesn?t happen.
Jim Altmiller
Gitmo is only there because you wish to keep prisoners incarcerated without trial, something you would be unable to do on US soil! (Dallas?) As a base it is irrelevant after all it is only 90miles from the US, it's probably out of sight out of mind somewhere to do the dirty work. Then straight to the basement to "old smokey" as is KathyPs preference . Something out of Goebbels playbook :wink:
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: sawdstmakr on November 17, 2019, 06:41:57 am
Cider,
So you are saying it is really just a penal colony just like the UK had all over the world. 😀
Jim Altmiller
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: Acebird on November 17, 2019, 09:43:17 am
I don't know, Ace. You tell us. Bases in Germany, Japan, Italy, Guam, Philippines, etc. Which presidents turned them over to foreign countries?
Also, cite the law that gives a president sole power to give away a military base.
Last I knew Russia was not an Allie.  Maybe that has changed?
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: iddee on November 17, 2019, 09:51:07 am
In WW2 they were. Germany and Japan were not. Now it is reversed. Who knows what it will be in the future? Things change. Ally or not, why give away billions when we are trillions in debt. Don't make much sense to me from either side the aisle.
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: Ben Framed on November 17, 2019, 10:31:41 am
Has Trump gone to far?   
No, he has not gone far enough. Get those crooks Mr. President!
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: kathyp on November 17, 2019, 11:03:58 am
Quote
Gitmo is only there because you wish to keep prisoners incarcerated without trial, something you would be unable to do on US soil! (Dallas?) As a base it is irrelevant after all it is only 90miles from the US, it's probably out of sight out of mind somewhere to do the dirty work. Then straight to the basement to "old smokey" as is KathyPs preference . Something out of Goebbels playbook

Some of them will not be tried.  They are held as enemy combatants and they can be held without trial for as long as we feel we need to hold them.  We have released many of them to countries that promised to supervise their behavior and guess where they ended up again? 

They do not qualify for Geneva Conventions protections, so the worst of the worst stay on a nice island with plenty of good food and recreation.

Goebbels and Co. engaged in genocide.  Surely you do not equate executing terrorists with genocide?
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: cidersabuzzin on November 17, 2019, 02:05:11 pm
Cider,
So you are saying it is really just a penal colony just like the UK had all over the world. 😀
Jim Altmiller
I think I would prefer to call it a POW camp with an interrogation facility attached. Most civilized countries release their POWs once they leave the conflict country, or do you intend never to leave Syria/Iraq? a la Cuba?.....isn't the base on a lease? that can be revoked? :grin:

PS I'm not sure but I think we only really had one penal colony, Australia. :cheesy:

PPS We used to specialize in concentration camps! as in the Boar War. That was before we grew up. Not in 2019 :cheesy:
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: cidersabuzzin on November 17, 2019, 02:55:58 pm
Quote
Gitmo is only there because you wish to keep prisoners incarcerated without trial, something you would be unable to do on US soil! (Dallas?) As a base it is irrelevant after all it is only 90miles from the US, it's probably out of sight out of mind somewhere to do the dirty work. Then straight to the basement to "old smokey" as is KathyPs preference . Something out of Goebbels playbook

Some of them will not be tried.  They are held as enemy combatants and they can be held without trial for as long as we feel we need to hold them.  We have released many of them to countries that promised to supervise their behavior and guess where they ended up again? 

They do not qualify for Geneva Conventions protections, so the worst of the worst stay on a nice island with plenty of good food and recreation.

Goebbels and Co. engaged in genocide.  Surely you do not equate executing terrorists with genocide?
How many have you executed ???

PS:
The Yearly cost to U.S. taxpayers of a prisoner in a maximum-security federal prison: Approximately $78,000.
The yearly cost to hold each detainee at Guantnamo: More than $10 million.
The Annual cost to operate Guantnamo: Approximately $445 million.
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: iddee on November 17, 2019, 05:21:42 pm
According to my math, cider, you are saying there are only about 44 detainees in gitmo. I would think you could find a better topic to fuss about than 44 terrorists being held until they are no longer considered a danger.
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: cidersabuzzin on November 17, 2019, 06:09:12 pm
According to my math, cider, you are saying there are only about 44 detainees in gitmo. I would think you could find a better topic to fuss about than 44 terrorists being held until they are no longer considered a danger.

iddee, As usual, you miss the point entirely. It is not the numbers you and kathy ramble on about your constitution but are quite happy to lock up people without trial for what seems the rest of their natural lives,(unless they suddenly die) just because they're foreigners....that is the point! You can't have it both ways: rolleyes:
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: iddee on November 17, 2019, 06:48:17 pm
NOT for the rest of their lives. Only until they are no longer a danger. If they will always be a danger, then maybe their lives need to be ended. That decision would need to be per individual, but POWs are held until the war is over. I'm sure we will empty Gitmo as soon as Jihad has come to an end.
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: kathyp on November 17, 2019, 07:30:32 pm
Quote
think I would prefer to call it a POW camp with an interrogation facility attached. Most civilized countries release their POWs once they leave the conflict country, or do you intend never to leave Syria/Iraq? a la Cuba?.....isn't the base on a lease? that can be revoked? :grin:

PS I'm not sure but I think we only really had one penal colony, Australia. :cheesy:

PPS We used to specialize in concentration camps! as in the Boar War. That was before we grew up. Not in 2019

As you say, we have not left the conflict countries.  There is a difference in law between a POW and a terrorist.  Terrorists are not covered by Geneva Conventions protections.  In fact, there is a description of legal combatants and terrorists are excluded. 

Quote
How many have you executed ???

PS:
The Yearly cost to U.S. taxpayers of a prisoner in a maximum-security federal prison: Approximately $78,000.
The yearly cost to hold each detainee at Guantnamo: More than $10 million.
The Annual cost to operate Guantnamo: Approximately $445 million.

Unfortunately, we have not executed any.  I do not know where your cost estimates come from but it is undoubtedly a high cost.  Perhaps not has high has returning them to the battlefield to kill your soldiers and ours, or our civilians. 
It most certainly could be made cheaper and should be as should the cost of keeping all prisoners.  Sherrif Joe had it right on that part.

Quote
It is not the numbers you and kathy ramble on about your constitution but are quite happy to lock up people without trial for what seems the rest of their natural lives,

Why on earth would we want to extend to the people who wish to wipe us out, the protections of our constitution?  I'm sorry.  The whole "we are better than that" argument does not wash with me.  Locke them up.  Kill them.  I don't care.  Just keep them where they can do no more harm and my preference on the battlefield is that the war is fought so that this question does not need to be asked about a new batch.


 
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: cidersabuzzin on November 17, 2019, 09:28:20 pm
So when in WW11 you're captured airborne we executed out of hand on the battlefield you have no problem with that? Keep digging kathy keep digging. The whole point of my part in this thread is you cannot express a holier than thou attitude and expect people to believe you.

PS I would have preferred these people to have been eliminated on the battlefield, but once captured they should be treated the same as you would expect yours to be! If not you reduce yourself to their level. For all I know you could be, judging by some of your comments, maybe thats just a hangover from your past military history. Unfortunate. :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: iddee on November 17, 2019, 09:37:18 pm
No, cider, we do not look at a well trained soldier that is fighting for his country the same as we look at an animal setting off suicide bombs in crowded civilian buses and shopping centers. If you consider them equals, I will lose a lot of the respect I have had for you thus far.
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: cidersabuzzin on November 17, 2019, 10:04:54 pm
No, cider, we do not look at a well trained soldier that is fighting for his country the same as we look at an animal setting off suicide bombs in crowded civilian buses and shopping centers. If you consider them equals, I will lose a lot of the respect I have had for you thus far.

If that is the case why did your country support and finance IRA terrorists who were "civilian dressed animals setting off bombs in crowded civilian buses and shopping centers" whilst murdering army soldiers. Even on Remembrance Day. The lowest of the low.But your people were sending money so they could buy arms and explosives. You would give pot and black a good name!
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: Ben Framed on November 18, 2019, 12:40:20 am
No, cider, we do not look at a well trained soldier that is fighting for his country the same as we look at an animal setting off suicide bombs in crowded civilian buses and shopping centers. If you consider them equals, I will lose a lot of the respect I have had for you thus far.

If that is the case why did your country support and finance IRA terrorists who were "civilian dressed animals setting off bombs in crowded civilian buses and shopping centers" whilst murdering army soldiers. Even on Remembrance Day. The lowest of the low.But your people were sending money so they could buy arms and explosives. You would give pot and black a good name!

Cider this is disturbing. I sure hope that information is not accurate. Do you have an available body of facts  showing this is true and accurate? Do you have evidence? If so it may be once again the stupidly of  your friends on the left...  Just recently for example, Fast and Furious.~ Benghazi just for two examples. With all the trouble that you have experienced there in your homeland, and our roots of England. How and why do you speak up continually for these leftist leaning folks?   Isn?t it time to consider the right?
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: iddee on November 18, 2019, 04:07:07 am
What he said, ider. Let'ssee some details. I have my doubts about the republicans doing hat. Now, the dems. may well have, like giving Iran billions to use against us.
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: cidersabuzzin on November 18, 2019, 04:54:32 am
What he said, ider. Let'ssee some details. I have my doubts about the republicans doing hat. Now, the dems. may well have, like giving Iran billions to use against us.

Have a look at Noraid, funny that after 9/11 funding of Noraid suddenly dried up. People suddenly woke up to who they had been funding.

"Others would point to the fact that an attack by the dissident 'Real IRA' in Omagh in 1998 claimed the lives of 29 civilians, while hundreds of people were killed and thousands maimed in IRA bombings and shootings in more than thirty years of violence"

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/1563119.stm
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: iddee on November 18, 2019, 06:15:27 am
Show me where I'm wrong. Following your links, I found civilian support for the IRA by Irish immigrants and descendants in America. I didn't see where the American government gave arms to them.
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: cidersabuzzin on November 18, 2019, 08:04:10 am
Show me where I'm wrong. Following your links, I found civilian support for the IRA by Irish immigrants and descendants in America. I didn't see where the American government gave arms to them.

Never said the Government gave them cash! :rolleyes: just deluded civilians. :angry:
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: Michael Bush on November 18, 2019, 08:32:45 am
>So when in WW11 you're captured airborne we executed out of hand on the battlefield you have no problem with that

It's insanity to compare treatment of POWs to treatment of Terrorists.  There is all the difference in the world between a POW and a terrorist.  On the other hand, I don't think torture is that useful for getting the truth, nor do I think people should be held indefinitely without being charged with a crime.  I think they should be charged and tried.
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: iddee on November 18, 2019, 08:43:03 am
So now you condemn people who leave their home country and come to the US, then send money back to assist their home folk?

Going a bit far there, aren't you?
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: Ben Framed on November 18, 2019, 09:27:40 am
So now you condemn people who leave their home country and come to the US, then send money back to assist their home folk?

Going a bit far there, aren't you?

Cider, let me add, in 1998 Bill Clinton the DEMOCRAT was President.  The Left. Your heros were in charge.  :shocked:
Again, maybe it?s time to consider the thinking of the right?
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: kathyp on November 18, 2019, 11:56:52 am
Quote
but once captured they should be treated the same as you would expect yours to be!

They are treated far better than ours.  If you want the videos I can find them for you.  Heads chopped off, burned alive, raped (men and women), etc.  So no, I have no sympathy for Gitmo prisoners who are well fed, have exercise fields, prayer rugs, washbasins, and spiritual leaders, and would go back to chop off heads in a second if released.  It's not like they are going home to the family and farm.  We know this because we know what the ones already released have done.

Again, there is a law that covers this.  Do you need a link to the Geneva Conventions?

Quote
just deluded civilians.

Deluded civilians do all kinds of things.  They supported communism, Hitler, the IRA, the VC, and any number of bad things and actors.  What  is your point?  You have people in your country who do the same. 
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: cidersabuzzin on November 18, 2019, 01:13:59 pm
No, just come from reading sections of Geneva Conventions.
Why do you not put them on trial?
What are you afraid of?
Must be something, if your willing to spend  $450m per annum to keep 40 people detained.
I have nothing against executing them if found guilty. You could use your favorite "old smokey"

Or is it a way of justifying keeping the base open?
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: kathyp on November 18, 2019, 01:22:43 pm
Quote
Why do you not put them on trial?
What are you afraid of?

A little googling would have given you the answer.  We have been trying to and are constantly blocked by the leftists courts.  There are people who believe that rather than military tribunals those criminals should be brought there and tried in civilian courts.  Without going into another book writing, there are good reasons for not doing that.  Those reasons are why they are held outside the US. 

As for the base, it existed before it was used to hold terrorists and will exist after. 
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: iddee on November 18, 2019, 02:06:00 pm
""Why do you not put them on trial?""
Just look at idiots like Shumer and Pelosi and our southern border for the answer to that. The morons they have put into judgeship will give an illegal rapist and murderer 30 days and a citizen jaywalker life.
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: cidersabuzzin on November 18, 2019, 05:45:43 pm
Quote
Why do you not put them on trial?
What are you afraid of?

A little googling would have given you the answer.  We have been trying to and are constantly blocked by the leftists courts.  There are people who believe that rather than military tribunals those criminals should be brought there and tried in civilian courts.  Without going into another book writing, there are good reasons for not doing that.  Those reasons are why they are held outside the US. 

As for the base, it existed before it was used to hold terrorists and will exist after.
If its on a lease as a coaling station and nothing else, why should it? Unless of course you exercise your "I'm bigger than you rights" you have ignored everything else in law! :wink:
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: cidersabuzzin on November 18, 2019, 06:04:27 pm
""Why do you not put them on trial?""
Just look at idiots like Shumer and Pelosi and our southern border for the answer to that. The morons they have put into judgeship will give an illegal rapist and murderer 30 days and a citizen jaywalker life.

iddee what has this waffle got to do with a base in Cuba? By the way ever been to Cuba? was there a good few years ago in 1994 will always remember watching the World Cup in a bar, Brazilians and Italians screaming at each other. This was just after they opened up to tourists. Lots of Canadians and Brazilians only met one American and she was there on a Swiss duel passport. Interesting place great beaches, weird cars, and buses converted from tank transporters. The stories I could tell about that place :cheesy: But less of this travelogue.
Why have you not tried them in a military court? Or is it you have not enough evidence? :wink:
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: Ben Framed on November 18, 2019, 09:23:44 pm
Why Is Britain a Breeding Ground for ISIS Terrorists?

https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/james-foley/why-britain-breeding-ground-isis-terrorists-n185951
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: jvalentour on November 18, 2019, 09:44:59 pm
Ben,
I think a better question would be, Why won't the Brits repatriate ISIS prisoners?

Oh yeah, they don't want to give them the civil rights a British citizen should have, they are terrorists, not POWs.  (Not that the EU Brits have civil rights).  Let somebody else deal with them says Downing St.
Cider = Hypocrite
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: iddee on November 18, 2019, 10:43:13 pm
This waffle has nothing to do with Cuba. It has everything to do with keeping terrorists and their body bombs away from US citizens and soldiers. Of course, like the leftists over here, you will never stay on the subject when you know you're wrong.
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: cidersabuzzin on November 19, 2019, 05:34:43 am
This waffle has nothing to do with Cuba. It has everything to do with keeping terrorists and their body bombs away from US citizens and soldiers. Of course, like the leftists over here, you will never stay on the subject when you know you're wrong.

Sorry, you didn't  like the travelogue :cheesy:

Why have you not tried them in a Military Court....do you not have enough evidence? If you did you could face down all the protesters but there doesn't seem to be the will whether intentional or not I suppose after Abu Ghraib was closed down you needed a replacement.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Ghraib_torture_and_prisoner_abuse
Is that a bit more on message iddee? 
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: iddee on November 19, 2019, 06:56:44 am
Much better. I don't have an answer to that. I would never have brought hem across the ocean, but they don't listen to my instructions very well.
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: kathyp on November 19, 2019, 11:38:01 am
Quote
Much better. I don't have an answer to that.

The answer is that federal courts keep blocking them on process minutia. 
Title: Re: Has Trump gone to far?
Post by: cidersabuzzin on November 19, 2019, 01:13:59 pm
Quote
Much better. I don't have an answer to that.

The answer is that federal courts keep blocking them on process minutia.

Now I wonder why?

Haven't you got a grip of the SCOUS to get it pushed through? :grin:

Since you believe GITMO to be above all laws, why not just get on with it?

You could even get your Old Smokey wish. sizzle sizzle. :rolleyes: