Beemaster's International Beekeeping Forum

MEMBER & GUEST INTERACTION SECTION => THE 2ND AMENDMENT => Topic started by: hannabee on March 18, 2019, 01:22:59 am

Title: Why we need gun regulations
Post by: hannabee on March 18, 2019, 01:22:59 am
Hello, as of right now, my best friends mom was killed in the Vegas shooting, one of my good friends just graduated parkland highschool last year and texted me from the Walmart she was hiding in during the shooting, and people still think that guns are not the problem? I'm sorry but children are DYING here and I think that we should put peoples lives before your guns.
Title: Re: Why we need gun regulations
Post by: iddee on March 18, 2019, 05:11:29 am
Hanna, I have owned numerous guns for nearly 60 years. NOT ONE of them have ever shot anyone. If guns, rather than people, are the problem, please explain to me why mine are so nice and others go around killing people.

If you agree people, not guns, are he problem, why do you want to take away the good people's only protection?
Title: Re: Why we need gun regulations
Post by: sawdstmakr on March 18, 2019, 09:04:12 am
Hanna,
England took the Guns away but now they have a serious problem with people being stabbed to death with knives.
Cars kill far more people than guns. Even doctors and nurses kill far more people through negligence than guns do. Are you going remove all cars on America?s roads? What about doctors. Then you say that doctors save people?s lives. So do guns every day but the media never report these incedents. They want to unarm America. Guns are the only thing that protects us from government people that want total control over you.
Jim
Title: Re: Why we need gun regulations
Post by: salvo on March 19, 2019, 12:08:34 am
Hi Hannabee,

Welcome to beekeeping. I see you've posted just a few times,... and jumped right into a more interesting sub-forum. Take a deep breath. There are all sorts of opinions in the world. Hang in there.

It appears that you're young (my friend's mom,... a friend from Parkland). You have my empathy. Two high profile crimes have touched your life. Horrible odds. There are many horrible things in this world.

If you knew any of us as mentors or members of your club, fellow church members, you'd know us as nice beekeepers, nice people. You'd likely never know of our more personal hobbies or lifestyles.

I promise you that no one's firearms from this forum will hurt you or your friends. None of our cars will hurt you either. None of us will kidnap you or anyone you know. We will never break into you home or rob you. But it's a difficult world out there. Be vigilant. Be aware. The police can't always be there to protect you. Your government can not pass laws that will keep you from harm. Drugs are illegal. Too many young people get drugs and die from overdoses. The city of Chicago is a shocking example of government not helping.

It's interesting. Years ago, in Boston, it was newsworthy that the city crime rate, especially on the rapid transit, was surprisingly down on days that gun owners met and rallied on Beacon Hill, the center of our state government. It was decided to never write about that again in newspapers. A common saying among gun owners is; It's better to have a gun and not need it, than to need a gun and not have it. And: An armed society is a polite society.

Grow old. Make your own decisions. Don't do drugs. Be as safe as you can be. Keep interacting in this whole forum. Keep interacting with people of common sense. Make it a point to keep things in perspective.

We're not looking to change anyone's mind. We just expect the same considerations.

Sal

Title: Re: Why we need gun regulations
Post by: hannabee on March 19, 2019, 01:39:03 am
thank you salvo, your response has been the kindest so far. I do not think that this beekeeping community will be any harm to me :) and indeed hope that I will learn more about bee keeping as it is a budding hobby that I have. You are right, and I do not think that we should ban guns completely, I think that we need stronger background checks, more regulations on who can own guns and what aspects should be more closely looked at.  thank you.
Title: Re: Why we need gun regulations
Post by: Michael Bush on March 19, 2019, 08:54:14 am
> I'm sorry but children are DYING here and I think that we should put peoples lives before your guns.

There is a primary assumption that guns cause crime.  There is no evidence to support that assumption.  If you look at the number of guns in a country and the number of murders there is no correlation between the two.  It's all over the map.

https://augmentedtrader.com/2012/12/16/guns-and-homicide-worldwide-statistics/
https://augmentedtrader.files.wordpress.com/2012/12/chart1-firearms-homicide.png

https://www.americanthinker.com/legacy_assets/articles/assets/Murder%202.bmp

In the last chart you'll notice the US Virgin Islands is the second highest and yet they have very strict gun control there.  You get very different results if you look at the number of firearms per captita and the number of MURDERS rather than the number of "Gun Deaths".  The problem with "Gun Deaths" is that when guns are available people use knives and baseball bats.  The question is whether or not more guns actually equal more CRIME not whether or not it equals more "Gun Deaths".   For instance, the murder rate int Wyoming for 2017 was 2.6 per 100,000.  The murder rate in California was 4.6 per 100,000.  But the gun deaths in Wyoming were 17.5 per 100,000 and the gun deaths in California were 7.9 per 100,000.  So California had a lower gun death number and a higher murder rate.  How can that happen?  Not all murders are done with guns.  Most of the gun deaths are suicides.  California has a suicide rate of 10.5 per 100,000.  Wyoming has a suicide rate of 26.9.  If a Californian wants to commit suicide they take pills or slash their wrists or crash their car head-on into someone else.  If a Wyomingite wants to commit suicide they use a gun.  Guns don't make them want to commit suicide.  It's just the more available method.  If guns weren't available they would use the Californian methods.  Also a lot of gun deaths are police killing criminals.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_homicide_rate
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearm_death_rates_in_the_United_States_by_state
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/suicide-mortality/suicide.htm

There were 15,129 murders in 2017 according to the FBI.  4,147 of them were with things other than guns.  682 were killed with bare hands and that doesn't count the 193 that were strangled or asphyxiated.  1,591 with knives.  467 with blunt objects.  People have been murdering people through all of humanity long before there were guns.  Cars kill about 40,000 people every year.  Guns don't get close to that.  I think people's lives are more important than your cars...

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2017/crime-in-the-u.s.-2017/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-11.xls
Title: Re: Why we need gun regulations
Post by: Acebird on March 19, 2019, 09:21:16 am
Mike the only issue I have with these statistics is when you separate out the difference between crimes of passion, suicide and mass shootings.  Mass shooting can only happen with a gun.  It is assumed that the individual is a nut.  So in my line of thinking the legislation should center around mental illness and the tools that makes mass shooting effective.  I am not in favor of banning guns nor am I in favor of arming every school and public building with guards.
Air travel today is insane.  Homeland security at the airports is nothing more than a huge drain on the federal budget.  We have this army at the airports for protection meanwhile planes fall out of the sky because someone thought it would be a good idea to take control away from the pilot.  Who's watching the manufacturers?  The manufacturers and their lobbyist.
Title: Re: Why we need gun regulations
Post by: kathyp on March 19, 2019, 11:18:59 am
Quote
I think that we need stronger background checks, more regulations on who can own guns and what aspects should be more closely looked at.  thank you.

Welcome!

May I ask which of those things you want done would have stopped any of the shootings you mention?  gun regulations only impact those willing to obey the law.  By definition, the criminal who shoots up places is not willing to obey the law because it is already illegal to murder people. 

1000s of teens die driving cars every year yet when I suggest we increase the driving age to 21 people freak out.  "It would be hard on the parents" "Kids couldn't get to activities or jobs.  So, OK, you accept the risk of your teen driving which is much higher than the risk of anyone shooting them.  Accidents among teen drivers are up, yet gun deaths if you adjust for gang bangers and suicides, is down. 

I am glad you have engaged, but I am not here to be kind.  The debate should challenge thinking!   :wink:



Title: Re: Why we need gun regulations
Post by: Acebird on March 19, 2019, 01:52:10 pm

1000s of teens die driving cars every year yet when I suggest we increase the driving age to 21 people freak out.
Absolutely!  One of my pet peevs.  Driving age 21, drinking age 16.  Regardless of what you and I think Kathy, the car manufacturers and insurance companies would not let it happen.
Title: Re: Why we need gun regulations
Post by: Michael Bush on March 19, 2019, 02:05:36 pm
>Mass shooting can only happen with a gun.

You have stacked the deck with your words.  You can't shoot people with a truck.  Mass KILLINGS don't require a gun.  It just requires a crowded place and a car, or a large truck, or  a bomb, or in the case of several mass killings in Japan and China, a sword or a knife.  The cause of mass killings seems to be mostly that insane people want to be famous and if they do a mass killing the media will make them famous.
Title: Re: Why we need gun regulations
Post by: Michael Bush on March 19, 2019, 02:19:58 pm
Murder is at it's lowest point since 1958:
https://www.infoplease.com/us/crime/homicide-rate-1950-2014

It is currently 44% of what it was in 1980.  Down to 4.5 per 100,000 from 10.2 per 100,000.  And the number of guns has probably tripled in that time and the number of concealed carry permits has gone up to at least five times what it was in 1999.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/10/19/3-million-americans-carry-loaded-handguns-with-them-every-single-day-study-finds/

The Washington Post (a most left wing anti gun organization) says that the number of permits went from 2.7 million in 1999 to 14.5 million in 2016.  So not only are them many more guns but there are at least six times as many people carrying guns.  And yet the murder rate continues to drop.

As of this minute there are 17 million concealed carry permits issued in the US.  Several states don't require them.  Odds are that 1 out of 14 people around you are carrying a gun.  In 2018 there were 24 million background checks to buy firearms.  11 million of those sales are new guns.  https://www.npr.org/2016/01/05/462017461/guns-in-america-by-the-numbers

The left likes to estimate that there are 300 million guns in the US.  This is unlikely.  Very few guns ever wear out.  That number is probably more like 1 billion. 

https://www.gunstocarry.com/concealed-carry-statistics/

There is likely several trillion rounds of ammo out there for those guns.

https://www.quora.com/How-many-bullets-are-there-in-the-us

How do you intend to disarm these people?  That people are being shot is exactly why people arm themselves.
Title: Re: Why we need gun regulations
Post by: kathyp on March 19, 2019, 02:26:19 pm
Quote
Regardless of what you and I think Kathy, the car manufacturers and insurance companies would not let it happen.

but when you mention the idea to the general public they throw a fit.  Not the kids.  The adults.  Kinda puts the lie to "We want to save kids lives.".
Title: Re: Why we need gun regulations
Post by: Dallasbeek on March 19, 2019, 03:32:16 pm
What Salvo said in post #3.  Not much to add to that except that in some of the forum topics, our members get into pretty heated exchanges.  Please do not think they are as angry as they sometimes let on.  Acebird and Iddee, for example, sometimes sound like they hate each other, but they are, in fact, good friends. 

If you get serious about beekeeping, I would suggest you read everything you can about the subject and find a mentor.  It would be good to locate a beekeepers club near you.  My club sponsors two or three teenagers each year and supplies them with hives (wooden ware to hold bees), bee suits, bees and mentoring?everything to get started in beekeeping.  I suspect a lot of clubs do this, and there are beekeepers clubs just about everywhere there are beekeepers, so look into that possibility.
Title: Re: Why we need gun regulations
Post by: Acebird on March 19, 2019, 06:02:30 pm
Acebird and Iddee, for example, sometimes sound like they hate each other, but they are, in fact, good friends. 
I missed my friend at the beefest.  Sure wished he could have made it.  But I understand.
Title: Re: Why we need gun regulations
Post by: iddee on March 19, 2019, 06:17:12 pm
Me, too, but didn't have the team drivers this year. Did miss you guys, tho.
Title: Re: Why we need gun regulations
Post by: Michael Bush on March 21, 2019, 10:17:25 am
"A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand."--Seneca the Elder (54 BC-39 AD), Letters to Lucilius

"An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it."--Jeff Cooper

"The media insist that crime is the major concern of the American public today. In this connection they generally push the point that a disarmed society would be a crime-free society. They will not accept the truth that if you take all the guns off the street you still will have a crime problem, whereas if you take the criminals off the street you cannot have a gun problem."--Jeff Cooper

"It appears that the murder rate inside prisons is ten times higher than that outside prisons. It must be due to all those Kalashnikov rifles that are issued to prisoners upon their incarceration."--Jeff Cooper

"One cannot legislate the maniacs off the street--these maniacs can only be shut down by an armed citizenry. Indeed bad things can happen in nations where the citizenry is armed, but not as bad as those which seem to be threatening our disarmed citizenry in this country at this time."--Jeff Cooper

"The data from the 1990 Harvard Medical Practice Study suggest that 150,000 Americans die every year from doctors' negligence - compared with 38,000 gun deaths annually. Why are doctors not declared a public health menace? Because they save more lives than they take. And so it is with guns. Every year, good Americans use guns about 2.5 million times to protect themselves and their families, which means 65 lives are protected by guns for every life lost to a gun."--Dr. Edgar Suter, San Francisco Chronicle, July 12, 1994, Opinion (p. A17)

"You might not know that peaceable, law-abiding Americans use their personal firearms about 5,500 times a day for self-defense.... Not that there are 5,500 defensive shootings a day, as the mere display of a gun and verbal warning to an attacker usually resolves the situation without any shots fired.  In fact, private citizens shoot nearly three times more violent criminals than do the police, while wounding far fewer bystanders than do the police.  The media doesn't admit this, but the NRA compiles new clippings of such incidents in "The Armed Citizen." "--Boston T. Party, Boston's Gun Bible, p. 32-5; statistics from Kleck Study

"According to the National Crime Survey administered by the Bureau of the Census and the National Institute of Justice, it was found that only 12 percent of those who use a gun to resist assault are injured, as are 17 percent of those who use a gun to resist robbery. These percentages are 27 and 25 percent, respectively, if they passively comply with the felon's demands. Three times as many were injured if they used other means of resistance."--G. Kleck, "Policy Lessons from Recent Gun Control Research" 

"There's no question that weapons in the hands of the public have prevented acts of terror or stopped them."--Shlomo Aharonisky

"You can spout all the anti-gun noise you want. You can tell me guns are 'macho' and 'masculine', and accuse me of trying to be like the 'big boys' if I carry one. I don't care. I've been raped, and I've decided that I would much rather defend myself than sit back quietly and be 'ladylike'."--Julie Batson

"Boys who own legal firearms have much lower rates of delinquency and drug use and are even slightly less delinquent than nonowners of guns.--U.S. Department of Justice, "Urban Delinquency and Substance Abuse," August 1995.

"When a government controls both the economic power of individuals and the coercive power of the state ... this violates a fundamental rule of happy living: Never let the people with all the money and the people with all the guns be the same people."--P. J. O'Rourke (b. 1947)
Title: Re: Why we need gun regulations
Post by: Dallasbeek on March 21, 2019, 01:09:22 pm
Excellent compilation of quotations, M. Bush. 
Title: Re: Why we need gun regulations
Post by: sawdstmakr on March 22, 2019, 07:17:21 am
Thanks for posting that Michael. You will never see anything thing like it in the news paper.
Jim Altmiller
Title: Re: Why we need gun regulations
Post by: Acebird on March 22, 2019, 08:52:37 am
Never let the people with all the money and the people with all the guns be the same people."--P. J. O'Rourke (b. 1947)

The people with all the money control transportation and communication.  It would not be hard for them to own all the guns no matter how many there are.  The people with all the money need people without the money to do the work so they are not going to wage war on them.  Isis has all the guns that they want and all the determination to win but does that make a difference?  No.  What makes a difference is control of transportation and communication.
Title: Re: Why we need gun regulations
Post by: Michael Bush on March 22, 2019, 12:49:04 pm
>The people with all the money control transportation and communication.  It would not be hard for them to own all the guns no matter how many there are.

If they succeed in disarming people they will be the only ones with guns.

 >The people with all the money need people without the money to do the work so they are not going to wage war on them. 

We would hope...
Title: Re: Why we need gun regulations
Post by: kathyp on March 22, 2019, 01:20:04 pm
Quote
The people with all the money need people without the money to do the work

Yes, this is how most people are employed.

 
Quote
so they are not going to wage war on them. 

History does not support this.

Title: Re: Why we need gun regulations
Post by: salvo on March 22, 2019, 05:47:29 pm
Hi Hannabee,

Lot of information since you last posted.

Please pipe in again,... assert yourself,... with comments, questions, statements.

There IS a lot of data in this thread. That's because there are a lot of years that have gone into the thought processes of our posters. This Second Amendment IS a big deal,... to ALL OF US. Me YOU,... the entire population of the United States. It is the amendment that guarantees all the other amendments.

I interject here that I just read of another Parkland School tragedy. A young woman, Sidney Aiello, took her own life, survivor's guilt
Please respond to me. Respond to us. Tell us your thoughts.

By the way, everyone's lives are touched by sadness. I heard it said that: Life is just a series of tragedies, broken only by brief moments of happiness. A lot of us old folks know that to be true.

When I was 12 y/o, my little brother, 4, was struck and killed by a car. That year too, I attended the funeral of a ten year old who fell off a tractor. The wagon full of hay crushed his little chest. As I said my prayers at his casket, I remember how they couldn't even clean the dirt from his work calloused hands. One cousin was stabbed to death by a girlfriend. Another cousin, drug od,... and on and on. We all lose friends, family, parents, children, siblings. My best man committed suicide, depression, leaving a wife and four little daughters. I just lost my dog to cancer. Funny how hard my wife and I are taking that. No guns involved in any of that.

Anyway,... chime back in.

Sal


Title: Re: Why we need gun regulations
Post by: kathyp on March 22, 2019, 08:20:39 pm
Quote
A young woman, Sidney Aiello, took her own life, survivor's guilt

I read that too.  I admit that suicide pee'd me off.  My BIL did that and left his little daughter behind.  to me, it is an act of supreme selfishness absent illness or some kind of intractable pain. 

to have been blessed to survive something like a shooting should make one embrace life, not end it. 

but hey, I have been blessed with not suffering from depression or any of those other things that make people despair so what do I know except that if those who do this understood or cared about the trauma they leave behind, they might rethink it?
Title: Re: Why we need gun regulations
Post by: Acebird on March 23, 2019, 09:34:29 am
so what do I know except that if those who do this understood or cared about the trauma they leave behind, they might rethink it?

How would that happen when the logical part of the brain is not functioning?
Title: Re: Why we need gun regulations
Post by: iddee on March 23, 2019, 09:41:17 am
If we knew the details of her life and living conditions, we may decide the death wan't associated with the shooting. Who knows what the rest of her life consisted of?
Title: Re: Why we need gun regulations
Post by: kathyp on March 23, 2019, 10:46:18 am
Quote
If we knew the details of her life and living conditions, we may decide the death wan't associated with the shooting. Who knows what the rest of her life consisted of?

Yes, I also wondered about this.  The article I read said she was good friends with a girl who died, but the parents said she never asked for help.  I am not sure a teen should have to ask for help. 

Anyway, you are right.  There is more we don't know about it than what we do know. 
Title: Re: Why we need gun regulations
Post by: kathyp on March 23, 2019, 10:51:35 am
Quote
How would that happen when the logical part of the brain is not functioning?

I realize that my statement is judgmental, but I can't feel bad about that. I used to deal with suicide attempts in the ER all the time.  They all had one thing in common.  They were all about ME!  "I feel bad" "No one cares about ME"  "MY boyfriend left ME".

My BIL was the same.  Nice guy and very smart, but never learned to fail and recover.  When HE felt it got to tough and there was no one left to bail him out, he ended it. 

In this thing, I have no sympathy for those who do it.  Only for the people they forever traumatize with their selfish act. 
Title: Re: Why we need gun regulations
Post by: sawdstmakr on March 23, 2019, 10:57:11 am
Kathy,
I?m very sorry you and your children had to go through that. It must also make it hard every time you have to deal with it at work.
Jim
Title: Re: Why we need gun regulations
Post by: salvo on March 23, 2019, 02:31:43 pm
Hi Folks,

I was going to post about... stuff. But I changed my mind. I wouldn't change my childhood or even my later life for anything. Well,... maybe I'd change a couple of things.

But nobody like to mention the agony caused by alcoholism, the fights, the crying, the grudges....

Nobody talks about the mental illnesses and the people left to to pick up the pieces. The prison. The institutionalization.

The near death experiences. The cripplings and injuries, accidents and otherwise.

Some nut once said: Buy the ticket. Take the ride. And at the end, skid in sideways in a cloud of smoke.

Are the dead looking down, understanding? Knowing all? Laughing? I hope so.

I think of the good times with all those gone on. But I can't tell their children about a lot of those times! I miss them all. But I'm not sad.

I'm sad about my dog right now.

Sal



Title: Re: Why we need gun regulations
Post by: hannabee on March 23, 2019, 03:44:53 pm
Sal Im so sorry about your dog.

regarding mental health with gun violence survivors; my friend who lost his mom in the Vegas shooting over a year ago is still struggling. As of right now he is not planning on going to college next year because his dad has become so overcome with grief that he is a shell of his former self and despite therapy he cannot manage to even properly take care of his children.

I would also like to say that I am not for BANNING guns. What I think is that we need better background checks. We need to check for metal health issues, and possible raise the age of buying guns. Where I live, you have to be 18 to buy a rifle but 21 to rent a car. While cars do have more accident rates and deaths than guns, guns have more premeditated deaths than cars.
Title: Re: Why we need gun regulations
Post by: kathyp on March 23, 2019, 04:50:22 pm
Quote
What I think is that we need better background checks. We need to check for metal health issues, and possible raise the age of buying guns. Where I live, you have to be 18 to buy a rifle but 21 to rent a car. While cars do have more accident rates and deaths than guns, guns have more premeditated deaths than cars.

In order to have good mental health reporting we need to change the HIPAA laws.  As it stands, it is very difficult for a mental heaths worker to get someone flagged without potentially putting their career at risk.

 We allow 16 year olds to drive and they die at a higher rate than teens die from gun violence or gun accidents yet parents scream bloody murder if you suggest raising the driving age to 21.  Apparently, convenience is more important than the lives of their kids?

Rifle deaths are very low.  There is no reason to change the age. 

You make a point about premeditation, but again I ask you which of these changes would have stopped anyone wishing to do a mass shooting?  That person has already chosen to break the law so they will not be hindered by stricter gun laws.  Taking the two shootings you mention, Las Vegas would not have been stopped.  The guy had no record and to this day, we don't know why he did it. 
The Parkland shooter didn't have a record because of the stupid agenda the sheriff and school had in place that did not have him arrested any number of times for threatening behavior at school, at home, and with a gun.  He should have been in jail already. 

The only shooting I can think of that might have been stopped was the VA tech shooter (handguns) if his mental health status had flagged him before he purchased the weapons. 

All of these "common sense gun laws" sound good, but change nothing other than to impact the law-abiding gun owner who is willing to follow those laws.  While the number of law-abiding gun owners is going up, I suspect the number willing to follow more and more restrictive gun laws is going down. 







Title: Re: Why we need gun regulations
Post by: CoolBees on March 23, 2019, 05:51:33 pm
Very well said Kathy.

In the USA ..

Rifle homicides average about 275 per year.
Assault rifles average a small fraction of the Rifle totals.
Handguns average 6,500 homicides per year.

Half of the above numbers are suicides.

Knives kill approx 3X as many people per year as (all) Rifles and Shotguns Combined.

The link for the above statistics is found here ... https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2016/crime-in-the-u.s.-2016/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-4.xls

I remember in 2011 [I think it was] that Donkeys killed more people than Assault Rifles.

To put this in perspective, Socialism has averaged 1,650,000 Homicides per year for the last 120 years globally that we know of!!! ... (Don't make me dig up all the statistics on this).

One final thought - the people trying to convince us of the need for more Gun Control ... are the same people trying to convince us that Socialism would be good for America. Wake up folks!!!
Title: Re: Why we need gun regulations
Post by: CoolBees on March 23, 2019, 06:02:56 pm
... oh, and I forgot to mention, they can't get their Socialism until they've taken (or at least controlled) our Guns ... they tell us we need to give up our guns so less Homicides will happen ... am I the only one that can do the math?
Title: Re: Why we need gun regulations
Post by: Psparr on March 23, 2019, 06:41:32 pm
I didn?t take the time to read all the replies to this topic so it has probably been covered already, but we have regulation on illegal drugs, or should I say a complete ban. Does it work? Obviously the answer is no. Guns would be no different and would have far more serious consequences than banning drugs.
Title: Re: Why we need gun regulations
Post by: Acebird on March 24, 2019, 10:08:54 am
Only for the people they forever traumatize with their selfish act.

Hmm, just another form of "about me".  When dealing with mental issues the help has to come before the deed is executed.  When that doesn't happen the result is usually suicide.  I am one who believes in tough love yet I know it is not a solution for mental illness.
I am certain that there is no amount of gun legislation that will prevent individual suicide but I think there could be good legislation that could curb mass shootings if both sides would come together and seriously work on it.  The only thing we have seen to date is far right and far left and no common sense in the middle.
Title: Re: Why we need gun regulations
Post by: kathyp on March 24, 2019, 11:16:04 am
Quote
I am certain that there is no amount of gun legislation that will prevent individual suicide but I think there could be good legislation that could curb mass shootings if both sides would come together and seriously work on it.  The only thing we have seen to date is far right and far left and no common sense in the middle.

If you can name a proposed legislation that would do that, I'd be interested to hear what it is. 

To bad the same effort is not made in cleaning up places like Chicago and the border, as is made in thinking up new laws to impact legal gun owners.
Title: Re: Why we need gun regulations
Post by: Acebird on March 24, 2019, 01:26:55 pm
If you can name a proposed legislation that would do that, I'd be interested to hear what it is. 
That is my point, I don't think there is but that doesn't mean there couldn't be.  We elect legislators to do that.  The problem is too complicated for me to come up with a simple solution.  It is not my area of expertise.  We don't have a United States anymore.  We have two parties jockeying for power with very little regard for what is best for the country and it's citizens.
Title: Re: Why we need gun regulations
Post by: kathyp on March 24, 2019, 01:56:35 pm
Quote
The problem is too complicated for me to come up with a simple solution.

there is no simple solution.  We outlaw all kinds of things, yet they still happen.  Blowing up federal buildings and killing lots of people is against the law, yet it was done.  Robbing banks is illegal, but it is done all the time.  People drive drunk.  People shoot people even in countries with very strict gun laws. 

They keep chipping around the edges of the 2nd in ways that make no difference, but refuse to address real issues like gang and drug violence, the suicide rate with and without guns, and the general breakdown of morality in our society.  Since society continues to degrade in many ways, I wish not to be at the mercy of the people who are part of that degradation...and that includes having magazines for my weapons that hold enough to do the job efficiently. 

If you can't meet the bad guy with sufficient force to stop the bad guy you are nothing but a target no matter the tool he/she chooses to use. 
Title: Re: Why we need gun regulations
Post by: salvo on March 24, 2019, 07:06:32 pm
Hi Hannabee!

Whats this with another "survivor" ending his life.

Pardon me! I'm cooking dinner. The lamb is in the oven. I've had a drink!

Are you kidding me?

Is there such a drive for your fifteen minutes of fame that you would,... that you COULD,... OFF YOURSELF?????

Arguments that "guns are bad" is greatly diminished by this. This is NOT NORMAL. Do you hear me? This is not within the realm of beleivability!

This person was not a sensitive individual, particularly affected by life experiences! This was a NON PC ACCEPTABLE WORD! There's a lot of them out there. DON'T BE ONE OF THEM!

A wise man told me once, years ago: Look at what the stupid people do,.... AND THEN DON'T DO IT!

I should not have posted this at this time!

I'm mad!

Sal
Title: Re: Why we need gun regulations
Post by: CoolBees on March 24, 2019, 10:30:45 pm
Sal - I have to tell myself constantly "don't post after you drink!"  :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool: ... especially when I'm mad. Your not alone.  :grin:
Title: Re: Why we need gun regulations
Post by: Michael Bush on March 25, 2019, 08:41:54 am
"Let's pass a law to keep drugs off the street..."--unknown
Title: Re: Why we need gun regulations
Post by: Hops Brewster on March 25, 2019, 11:08:16 am
Hannahbee, as has been quite clearly demonstrated here and in other countries, removing the guns does not stop mass murders.  The perpetrators will use any other means.  They will smuggle guns in from war zones, they will use bombs, they will use cars and trucks, they will use airplanes, knives or axes.  Like guns, these are all tools.  It is the people that use these tools that are committing the crime, not the tools.   Taking away guns will only alter the method, not the act.  To solve the problem of mass shootings, you must address the perpetrator, not his tools.  In other words, people kill people.

When I was 21 years old I witnessed 2 young men get shot, 1 of whom died.  Instead of making me fearful of guns, that experience had quite the opposite effect.  It solidified a decision to never be a defenseless victim.  It is why I am a firm believer and staunch supporter of an individual's right to protect him/herself with whatever tool is available, including but not limited to firearms.  I may some day be murdered but, not before I try to protect myself and my loved ones.
Title: Re: Why we need gun regulations
Post by: Acebird on March 25, 2019, 06:09:33 pm
It is why I am a firm believer and staunch supporter of an individual's right to protect him/herself with whatever tool is available, including but not limited to firearms.
Your belief limits your travel to only certain parts of this beautiful country without risking incarceration.
Title: Re: Why we need gun regulations
Post by: iddee on March 25, 2019, 06:20:07 pm
I have not been in Hi., nor 3 other states. I have seen all this beautiful country I need to see in the other 46, and did it when it was much safer to travel. I will continue to carry, thank you.
Title: Re: Why we need gun regulations
Post by: CoolBees on March 25, 2019, 10:41:54 pm
Your belief limits your travel to only certain parts of this beautiful country without risking incarceration.

Sadly yes - and isn't that a sad narrative in-and-of itself. Wouldn't you agree Ace?
Title: Re: Why we need gun regulations
Post by: salvo on March 25, 2019, 11:20:33 pm
Hi Folks,

Another apparent suicide, Sandyhook father:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6848135/Father-Sandy-Hook-victim-dead-apparent-suicide.html

Sal
Title: Re: Why we need gun regulations
Post by: Ben Framed on March 26, 2019, 03:29:45 am
"A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand."--Seneca the Elder (54 BC-39 AD), Letters to Lucilius

"An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it."--Jeff Cooper

"The media insist that crime is the major concern of the American public today. In this connection they generally push the point that a disarmed society would be a crime-free society. They will not accept the truth that if you take all the guns off the street you still will have a crime problem, whereas if you take the criminals off the street you cannot have a gun problem."--Jeff Cooper

"It appears that the murder rate inside prisons is ten times higher than that outside prisons. It must be due to all those Kalashnikov rifles that are issued to prisoners upon their incarceration."--Jeff Cooper

"One cannot legislate the maniacs off the street--these maniacs can only be shut down by an armed citizenry. Indeed bad things can happen in nations where the citizenry is armed, but not as bad as those which seem to be threatening our disarmed citizenry in this country at this time."--Jeff Cooper

"The data from the 1990 Harvard Medical Practice Study suggest that 150,000 Americans die every year from doctors' negligence - compared with 38,000 gun deaths annually. Why are doctors not declared a public health menace? Because they save more lives than they take. And so it is with guns. Every year, good Americans use guns about 2.5 million times to protect themselves and their families, which means 65 lives are protected by guns for every life lost to a gun."--Dr. Edgar Suter, San Francisco Chronicle, July 12, 1994, Opinion (p. A17)

"You might not know that peaceable, law-abiding Americans use their personal firearms about 5,500 times a day for self-defense.... Not that there are 5,500 defensive shootings a day, as the mere display of a gun and verbal warning to an attacker usually resolves the situation without any shots fired.  In fact, private citizens shoot nearly three times more violent criminals than do the police, while wounding far fewer bystanders than do the police.  The media doesn't admit this, but the NRA compiles new clippings of such incidents in "The Armed Citizen." "--Boston T. Party, Boston's Gun Bible, p. 32-5; statistics from Kleck Study

"According to the National Crime Survey administered by the Bureau of the Census and the National Institute of Justice, it was found that only 12 percent of those who use a gun to resist assault are injured, as are 17 percent of those who use a gun to resist robbery. These percentages are 27 and 25 percent, respectively, if they passively comply with the felon's demands. Three times as many were injured if they used other means of resistance."--G. Kleck, "Policy Lessons from Recent Gun Control Research" 

"There's no question that weapons in the hands of the public have prevented acts of terror or stopped them."--Shlomo Aharonisky

"You can spout all the anti-gun noise you want. You can tell me guns are 'macho' and 'masculine', and accuse me of trying to be like the 'big boys' if I carry one. I don't care. I've been raped, and I've decided that I would much rather defend myself than sit back quietly and be 'ladylike'."--Julie Batson

"Boys who own legal firearms have much lower rates of delinquency and drug use and are even slightly less delinquent than nonowners of guns.--U.S. Department of Justice, "Urban Delinquency and Substance Abuse," August 1995.

"When a government controls both the economic power of individuals and the coercive power of the state ... this violates a fundamental rule of happy living: Never let the people with all the money and the people with all the guns be the same people."--P. J. O'Rourke (b. 1947)

Outstanding Quotes! Thanks Mr Bush
Title: Re: Why we need gun regulations
Post by: Acebird on March 26, 2019, 08:21:40 am
Sadly yes - and isn't that a sad narrative in-and-of itself. Wouldn't you agree Ace?
Believe it or not I do.  Which is why I think how gun legislation is crafted is important.  I know how it will be done if it is looked at on a black and white bases.  I don't think most people on this forum will like the out come.
Title: Re: Why we need gun regulations
Post by: salvo on March 26, 2019, 08:33:26 am
Hi Folks,

Apologies for the other night. In vino veritas.

Question: In today's world, which carries a greater stigma? An accidental drug overdose? Or a circumstance termed SUICIDE with no authoritative facts to back it up?

Police said they "will not disclose the method or any other details" of Richman's death, other than it does not appear to be suspicious.

In a case where a regular or even occasional user of illegal drugs happens to overdose, should that ever be termed suicide?

I'm not diminishing anything here. I am still angry,... more so! Did I read correctly that Mr. Richman and his wife have had two children since his little daughter was killed? Was he really a pharmaceutical professional? How did he die? Were there any financial issues?

How did they die? Were any of the recent suicides being seen for depression?

I don't like to be mislead by omission.

DON'T DO DRUGS!

Sal
Title: Re: Why we need gun regulations
Post by: CoolBees on March 26, 2019, 12:23:00 pm
Sadly yes - and isn't that a sad narrative in-and-of itself. Wouldn't you agree Ace?
Believe it or not I do.  Which is why I think how gun legislation is crafted is important.  I know how it will be done if it is looked at on a black and white bases.  I don't think most people on this forum will like the out come.

Ace - it is my observation that, when viewed in "black and white", the guns would be taken/banned/or otherwise controlled. Crime would then rise dramatically, as it always does in such a situation. And what would soon follow is a dictator taking over "to set things right" from one party or the other - it wouldn't really matter which party at that point. Shortly after, people would begin rebelling - with good reason. And the dictators party would begin "cracking down" - this is the part where the mass-killings begin.

We, as citizens, have 2 choices right now - and always:

1 - 9,500 (average) gun related deaths per year in the USA, half of which are suicides, less than 400 are rifles, and less the 100 are Assault Rifles (data via the FBI - posted earlier in this thread - post #31)
OR
2 - A dictator (usually socialst/communist) run country which will melt down into mass murder of its own people.

Here's the options to each of the above:
1 - a severe increase in punishment for gun crimes would lower #1 above by about 1/3.
Or
2 - or we could choose the mass murder route of over 1,500,000 deaths, average per year, continuously for the last 120+/- years, that a communist/socialist/whatever-name dictator offers a "gun-free" society - 100% guaranteed by history.

Please explain to me why anyone would choose the #2 option Ace?
Title: Re: Why we need gun regulations
Post by: Ben Framed on March 26, 2019, 12:51:25 pm
Good post Alan
Title: Re: Why we need gun regulations
Post by: Michael Bush on March 26, 2019, 01:19:10 pm
>Please explain to me why anyone would choose the #2 option

Communism simply hasn't been done right yet... ;)
Title: Re: Why we need gun regulations
Post by: Acebird on March 26, 2019, 02:28:40 pm
Alan, obviously you think black and white but your argument gets shot in the foot because there are other countries where the citizens don't have guns and don't have the mass murders that you claim or are they a dictatorship.  Even Russia is not a dictatorship although I will grant you their elections are a farce.  Our present president is very much trying to do the same.  You are so naive, he would indeed like to be a dictator and if he could pull it off he would be the first to take all your guns away.  He is paranoid about being shot also being poisoned.  You know that poison is the preferred way of assignation by Russia don't you?  It may come as a shock to you that there are a lot of democrats that own guns and do not want to ban them.  It is not necessary.
Title: Re: Why we need gun regulations
Post by: CoolBees on March 26, 2019, 03:16:06 pm
Ace - the countries who can get away without gun ownership  (for the most part), can do so because a) other countries won't let them go down a rabbit hole of dictatorships (thus the meddling in foreign affairs by us, russian, china, japan, etc) & b) they are protected from without by large partners. Case in point today - France, Britain, etc. So these countries do not serve as a legitimate example of what "could be". The USA however, would go down a whole different path [than those countries] if it is disarmed.

As to Trump - I don't know him, and I haven't done any great study of him, so I can't entertain you with a discussion of his motives and/or aspirations.

As to Democratic Gun ownership - yes. Very true. I personally know many of them. Never made sense to me - kind of like Jews voting for hitler imho, but that's not really my problem in the short term. Hopefully won't be my problem in the long term either.

Cheers man!
Title: Re: Why we need gun regulations
Post by: Ben Framed on March 26, 2019, 03:34:17 pm
Ace my friend, either you have secretly been voting Republican or you need to, that is if you and all your Democratic colleagues who believe as you do, intend to retain the right to keep and bare arms. Your leadership has made it more than clear where they stand on this. Fox News needs to do a special report about this. If I were able to arrange it, would you be interested in being a guest?  :wink: I bet Tucker would be more than glad to have you ? 😊😁 j/k Ace the hour is booked!!
Title: Re: Why we need gun regulations
Post by: iddee on March 27, 2019, 07:39:04 am
""You are so naive, he would indeed like to be a dictator and if he could pull it off he would be the first to take all your guns away.  He is paranoid about being shot also being poisoned. ""

"Ace is the finest psychiatrist I have ever known. He can tell you all of Trump's inner thoughts and feelings, plus predict all his future actions. I'm just glad I have chest high boots. Hip high would be too low."
Title: Re: Why we need gun regulations
Post by: Acebird on March 27, 2019, 08:41:52 am

As to Trump - I don't know him, and I haven't done any great study of him, so I can't entertain you with a discussion of his motives and/or aspirations.
Alan, you are not unlike many of his followers because if they did they would not be.
As to Democratic Gun ownership - yes. Very true. I personally know many of them. Never made sense to me - kind of like Jews voting for hitler imho,
[/quote]

Nothing like that at all.  Most democrats are patriotic and believe in the second amendment.  There is a very small percentage of land area in the US that is metropolitan.  Most is country which has a lot of democrats.  Yes, there are a lot of farmers that vote republican but they are voting for socialist programs.  Socialism is huge among farmers.  A republican would not get into office if they did not vote for these programs.  I am sure it is exactly the same in CA and around the whole country.
Title: Re: Why we need gun regulations
Post by: Acebird on March 27, 2019, 08:42:59 am
He can tell you all of Trump's inner thoughts and feelings, plus predict all his future actions.
Very sad that his followers cannot.
Title: Re: Why we need gun regulations
Post by: iddee on March 27, 2019, 09:46:03 am
HIS FOLLOWERS??  No other human on earth can. Only you can read minds and see into the future.
Title: Re: Why we need gun regulations
Post by: kathyp on March 27, 2019, 11:20:35 am
Quote
Very sad that his followers cannot.

And honestly, I don't care.  I care about policy.  The heart of another is never known but we do know that some of the nicest people on earth (Ted Bundy for example) have the blackest souls.  All we can do with a politician is judge what they accomplish or fail to accomplish.  This is what we vote for or against. 
Title: Re: Why we need gun regulations
Post by: CoolBees on March 27, 2019, 11:44:14 am

As to Trump - I don't know him, and I haven't done any great study of him, so I can't entertain you with a discussion of his motives and/or aspirations.
Alan, you are not unlike many of his followers because if they did they would not be. ...

Ace - I'd like to point out that you are giving no credit of intelligence to the people of this country who invent products, create jobs, build the economy, mathematicians, small business owners, investors, entrepreneurs, blue collar workers, and many, many more highly intelligent and hard working people who make this country great every day of their lives - these are Trump's supporters, those that "produce" daily. - these are the people paying all the taxes. These are the people making the money transfer thru our economy. You just called them all (including me) stupid.

Conversely - your are giving ultimate intellectual credit to those that hate Trump - lazy welfare recipient's, pot smokers, drug users and dealers, pregnant teens, gang members, union members, whiny college students, "gimmy" types, and many many more people who live off of the production  of the 1st group listed above, and hate Trump. Your saying these people are geniuses.

Humbly Sir - I'd like to say that your not making any sense at all.

Cheers!  :cheesy: :grin: :grin:
Title: Re: Why we need gun regulations
Post by: Ben Framed on March 28, 2019, 02:59:27 am
"lazy welfare recipient's, pot smokers, drug users and dealers, pregnant teens, gang members, union members, whiny college students, "gimmy" types, and many many more people who live off of the production  of the 1st group listed above, and hate Trump. Your saying these people are geniuses."

Since Alan put it that way, Maybe he is right? If the above were very smart they would wake up and vote republican so the rest of us, the hard workers, inventors etc, would keep producing and the above could keep living off of the industrious just as they have been doing. Seems to me they are trying to kill the goose that is laying the golden egg!!! Just like the na?ve in Venezuela? Can they not see what they are headed for if they get there way? That is of course your theory is correct?  And if your theory is indeed correct, unfortunately this seems to shine the light of just how unintelligent the above really are? After all the people of  Venezuela fell into the very same trap? Not very smart to put it nicely! What could possiably be wrong with these folks, unappreciative folks? Biting the hands that are feeding them. If they are that pitiful, we must ignore their stupidy and keep on working and taking care of them weather they appreciate it or us, or not. Apparently they can't feed themselves without being taken care of? And hate the ones that do take care of them!  We can't just let them perish? Let them starve , and let them starve us by going the way of Venezuela, Can we? Just to prove that we love them? If they can't see it by now, will they ever under any circumstance? And if all the above is true, where are they getting the ideas to hate the ones who are helping them? Who is pushing the (hate the right narrative)? "Everyone let's hate the ones who care about us, and despise them".   irreguardless of how good to them we are ?  Their vile wicked hate shines through constantly on almost every news channel, almost every news paper, almost all of Hollywood, most social media, hate hate hate. Hate President Trump who cares for them. Hate Americans that care for them! Mock MAGA hat wearers?  Mock the President on late night shows!!! Are we really living in zombie land? ..  Sad
Title: Re: Why we need gun regulations
Post by: Michael Bush on March 28, 2019, 09:33:32 am
http://www.wikilender.com/10-cars-most-likely-unreported-accident/

We could reduce car accidents by 18.5% if we just outlaw BMW Series 4 cars... and 36.5% if we just outlaw BMWs...
Title: Re: Why we need gun regulations
Post by: Acebird on March 28, 2019, 02:49:59 pm
Quote
Very sad that his followers cannot.

And honestly, I don't care.  I care about policy...This is what we vote for or against.

And we will see if the swing voters smarten up in 2020.
Title: Re: Why we need gun regulations
Post by: sawdstmakr on March 28, 2019, 02:55:26 pm
Brian,
They did on the last election, hopefully they will again in 2020.
There are thousands and thousands of die hard Democratic voters (especially in the farm communities) that voted Republican in 2019 for the first time in their life in 2018.
Jim Altmiller
Title: Re: Why we need gun regulations
Post by: Acebird on March 29, 2019, 09:19:54 am
And they pretty much regret that mistake.  The farmers have been beaten up badly by the Trump regime.  Now that they see his lies for what they are, the votes might change back.
Many democrats were trying to get the party to straighten out.  Sort of teach them a lesson.  Unfortunately it didn't work out well.  The real problem is that Trump has tainted the republican party to the point of taking no responsibility for what they are elected for.  We need a major overhaul of government which only happens in a revolution.  Very sad where this country is going.
Title: Re: Why we need gun regulations
Post by: iddee on March 29, 2019, 10:02:42 am
Ace, here's your liberal utopia.It would be nice if all dems would realize it's the only way it can happen. Then they would all vote republican.

""A ?liberal paradise? would be a place where everybody has guaranteed employment, free comprehensive health care, free education, free food, free housing, free clothing, free utilities and only law enforcement personnel have guns. And, believe it or not, such a liberal utopia does indeed exist. ... It?s called prison.""
Joe Arpaio
Title: Re: Why we need gun regulations
Post by: sawdstmakr on March 29, 2019, 11:09:22 pm
Ace,
The farmers that I know are really glad President Trump is President and will definitely vote for him again.
Jim Altmiller
Title: Re: Why we need gun regulations
Post by: Ben Framed on March 30, 2019, 12:44:57 am
Ace,
The farmers that I know are really glad President Trump is President and will definitely vote for him again.
Jim Altmiller

Same here Jim
Title: Re: Why we need gun regulations
Post by: iddee on March 30, 2019, 03:34:17 am
Here, too.
Title: Re: Why we need gun regulations
Post by: CoolBees on March 30, 2019, 04:21:11 am
And they pretty much regret that mistake.  The farmers have been beaten up badly by the Trump regime.  Now that they see his lies for what they are, the votes might change back.
Many democrats were trying to get the party to straighten out.  Sort of teach them a lesson.  Unfortunately it didn't work out well.  The real problem is that Trump has tainted the republican party to the point of taking no responsibility for what they are elected for.  We need a major overhaul of government which only happens in a revolution.  Very sad where this country is going.

I'm now beginning to believe in the possibility of a Parallel Universe. [Head scratching]
Title: Re: Why we need gun regulations
Post by: Acebird on March 30, 2019, 10:29:51 am
""A ?liberal paradise? would be a place where everybody has guaranteed employment, free comprehensive health care, free education, free food, free housing, free clothing, free utilities and only law enforcement personnel have guns. And, believe it or not, such a liberal utopia does indeed exist. ... It?s called prison.""
Joe Arpaio

Then why are most of the people in prison entrepreneurs that got caught if they are considered liberal?  What about all the presidents men, are they liberal?
Title: Re: Why we need gun regulations
Post by: Dallasbeek on March 30, 2019, 12:34:28 pm
""A ?liberal paradise? would be a place where everybody has guaranteed employment, free comprehensive health care, free education, free food, free housing, free clothing, free utilities and only law enforcement personnel have guns. And, believe it or not, such a liberal utopia does indeed exist. ... It?s called prison.""
Joe Arpaio

Then why are most of the people in prison entrepreneurs that got caught if they are considered liberal?  What about all the presidents men, are they liberal?


Most people in prison are there for drug offenses the last I heard.  Does that make them liberal or conservative?
Title: Re: Why we need gun regulations
Post by: iddee on March 30, 2019, 02:02:29 pm
NO, Dallas, that is 50% or more. MOST, in Ace's world, is less than 1%. You need to learn his vocabulary.
Title: Re: Why we need gun regulations
Post by: Hops Brewster on April 01, 2019, 11:33:12 am
It is why I am a firm believer and staunch supporter of an individual's right to protect him/herself with whatever tool is available, including but not limited to firearms.
Your belief limits your travel to only certain parts of this beautiful country without risking incarceration.
Not necessarily, Ace.  Please note that I specifically mentioned "whatever tool is available".
this may or may not mean a firearm.  I also know how to use other tools in defense.

OTH, those "beautiful" places that outlaw a person's natural right to self-protection are not high on my list of places to visit.  Not so beautiful that I want to spend my money there and support them.  California, for example...  been there, not impressed and have no plans to return.  NY?  only to breeze through on my way to Maine.  There are plenty of other places to go, things to see and people to do that the Left Wing havens don't even matter.
Title: Re: Why we need gun regulations
Post by: Ben Framed on April 01, 2019, 11:51:33 am
 Fred G Sanford preferred a Louisville slugger! Goodness gracious!  I doubt that Big Bruiser Neil would have just stood there and waited for the sheriff if van whipped out a Louisville slugger. But, Can you imagine the damage that a homerun swing what do to someone's head! Again Mr. van good job. The firearm saved you and your girlfriend from who knows what. And saved big Neil a BUSTED head! Your choice of defense in this situation could not have been any better from my standpoint of view..  there are many many many stories such as yours, we're fire arms have stopped valance in its tracks. You are an old Texas boy. You know what they used to say about Sam colt?  Sam Colt was the great equalizer  no matter ones size, gender, or age.
Title: Re: Why we need gun regulations
Post by: salvo on April 02, 2019, 05:19:13 am
Hi Folks,

DAN UNDAH GUNKEEPING.

How do I hand in my firearm to Police?

Please click the link:

https://www.police.govt.nz/advice/firearms-and-safety/changes-firearms

Sal
Title: Re: Why we need gun regulations
Post by: CoolBees on April 02, 2019, 02:28:07 pm
New Zealand already had pretty strict gun and ammo restrictions/regulations. Oh well. Looks like they are almost done making themselves completely defenseless. Soon, New Guinea will be able to invade them and take over. Sad.
Title: Re: Why we need gun regulations
Post by: salvo on April 20, 2019, 10:33:05 pm
Hi Folks,

I had no idea that this happened! Of course, I wasn't collecting SS at the time.

Buttigieg also supports restoring the gun ban for Social Security recipients, a ban that was instituted under Obama, then repealed by President Trump.

Breitbart News reported that Trump signed the ban repeal on February 28, 2017.


Sal
Title: Re: Why we need gun regulations
Post by: Ben Framed on April 21, 2019, 06:28:26 am
""You are so naive, he would indeed like to be a dictator and if he could pull it off he would be the first to take all your guns away.  He is paranoid about being shot also being poisoned. ""

"Ace is the finest psychiatrist I have ever known. He can tell you all of Trump's inner thoughts and feelings, plus predict all his future actions. I'm just glad I have chest high boots. Hip high would be too low."

That is CNN for you iddee. Most everyone who is glued in to that station can qualify as the ?finest psychiatrist? when it comes to this very opinion on President Trump. It?s like they have been programmed to believe this almost word to word. But our friend Ace is a good sport, unlike some which are fanatics.
Title: Re: Why we need gun regulations
Post by: Ben Framed on June 04, 2019, 01:15:14 am
I wonder what the folks that stayed glued to CNN think now since it has been proven a hoax as per no evidence of wrong doing by Mr Trump with the Russians . Once again proving the Democrats and CNN as total fakes, false witnesses, and false rumor spreaders? Will they at last seek the truth or will their pride Stand in their way?
Title: Re: Why we need gun regulations
Post by: sawdstmakr on June 04, 2019, 07:02:06 am
I?ll bet they double down and keep trying to impeach based on Muller?s nine minute report. They will do this right up to the 2020 election.
Jim Altmiller
Title: Re: Why we need gun regulations
Post by: kathyp on June 04, 2019, 11:55:22 am
Quote
I wonder what the folks that stayed glued to CNN think now since it has been proven a hoax as per no evidence of wrong doing by Mr Trump with the Russians . Once again proving the Democrats and CNN as total fakes, false witnesses, and false rumor spreaders? Will they at last seek the truth or will their pride Stand in their way?

Now the story is the Barr is lying.  Mueller couldn't do what he wanted to do, which was indict Trump.  Congress MUST act to save us all.  Those still getting news from CNN and MSNBC have no clue and are being whipped up again.
Title: Re: Why we need gun regulations
Post by: Ben Framed on June 04, 2019, 12:23:32 pm
Quote
I wonder what the folks that stayed glued to CNN think now since it has been proven a hoax as per no evidence of wrong doing by Mr Trump with the Russians . Once again proving the Democrats and CNN as total fakes, false witnesses, and false rumor spreaders? Will they at last seek the truth or will their pride Stand in their way?

Now the story is the Barr is lying.  Mueller couldn't do what he wanted to do, which was indict Trump.  Congress MUST act to save us all.  Those still getting news from CNN and MSNBC have no clue and are being whipped up again.

Goodness!