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MEMBER & GUEST INTERACTION SECTION => THE COFFEE HOUSE ((( SOCIAL - ROOM ))) => Topic started by: cidersabuzzin on November 03, 2018, 08:13:11 pm

Title: Sanctions
Post by: cidersabuzzin on November 03, 2018, 08:13:11 pm
Are the new US sanctions against Iran a step too far?
The US is self sufficient in oil, but not much of the rest of world is. Is it right that the US by unilateral imposition of sanctions will damage lots of the rest of the worlds economies?
Haven't the US got it's client state Israel in the area to sort the problem?     
Title: Re: Sanctions
Post by: Acebird on November 04, 2018, 08:35:45 am
US sanctions without the rest of the world following along is kind of pointless.  Sanctions were totally ineffective against Iran even with the rest of the world on board which is why Obama changed the method of getting Iran to the negotiation table and succeeded.
Title: Re: Sanctions
Post by: sawdstmakr on November 04, 2018, 09:06:07 am
The only thing that obama succeeded in doing was give our worst enemy, Iran, $150 billion, 1.8 billion was in cash and nothing in return.
Jim
Title: Re: Sanctions
Post by: cidersabuzzin on November 04, 2018, 11:03:57 am
The only thing that obama succeeded in doing was give our worst enemy, Iran, $150 billion, 1.8 billion was in cash and nothing in return.
Jim
Who did the $1.8bn belong to?
Maybe this will help.
https://www.quora.com/Is-Donald-Trump-right-that-the-US-gave-Iran-150-billion-dollars
Title: Re: Sanctions
Post by: Acebird on November 04, 2018, 09:22:31 pm
Jim are worse enemy is Putin because he has your man in his pocket.
Title: Sanctions
Post by: Redlands Okie on November 04, 2018, 09:26:53 pm
Iran was beginning to have serious problems and then Obama eased up and gave them a break. Now we are dealing with the results.

Lots of energy sources out there. All countries are free to pursue them as they see fit. Many have decided to let others solve their problems instead of doing more on their own. Relying on the the small production of oil from Iran is perhaps unwise to say the least.
Title: Re: Sanctions
Post by: cidersabuzzin on November 06, 2018, 04:51:32 am
Iran was beginning to have serious problems and then Obama eased up and gave them a break. Now we are dealing with the results.

Lots of energy sources out there. All countries are free to pursue them as they see fit. Many have decided to let others solve their problems instead of doing more on their own. Relying on the the small production of oil from Iran is perhaps unwise to say the least.

"Relying on the the small production of oil from Iran is perhaps unwise to say the least"

Iran has the Fourth largest oil reserves in the world, think about the jibe "relying on Iranian oil"  the price of oil will rise on the international oil market, damaging lots of countries. The price rise will benefit Venezuela, Saudi Arabia and Russia whilst damaging the economies of long standing friends.......and what for? the votes of the loony rightists in the mid-term elections! :rolleyes:     
Title: Re: Sanctions
Post by: blackforest beekeeper on November 06, 2018, 05:04:48 am
Iran was beginning to have serious problems and then Obama eased up and gave them a break. Now we are dealing with the results.

Lots of energy sources out there. All countries are free to pursue them as they see fit. Many have decided to let others solve their problems instead of doing more on their own. Relying on the the small production of oil from Iran is perhaps unwise to say the least.

"Relying on the the small production of oil from Iran is perhaps unwise to say the"

Iran has the Fourth largest oil reserves in the world, think about the jibe "relying on Iranian oil"  the price of oil will rise on the international oil market, damaging lots of countries. The price rise will benefit Venezuela, Saudi Arabia and Russia whilst damaging the economies of long standing friends.......and what for? the votes of the loony rightists in the mid-term elections! :rolleyes:   

this sounds like a sound jugdement of the situation.

by the way: Iran has been long-time friends with the US (and of course Israel), this has changed a bit recently....
don?t overlook history.

we are talking oil here. just because politicians are down-sizing its importance in words doesnt change a thing about ?what goes on in reality.

the US is just getting to be the largest oil-exploiter world-wide. so these maneuvers will suit the Bushs and whoeverelse in the oil-business in the US just fine, too. Nepotism, together with the Saudis also.
Title: Re: Sanctions
Post by: SilentSkeptic on November 06, 2018, 12:02:07 pm
Sound judgement? Haha.

Most oil is produced synthetically these days. The press are lying when they imply turmoil in the mid east will increase oil prices- they do so to justify the war with Iran they are pushing for. The press is using fear in the form of a threat about oil price hikes to control you and you keep buying into it. Fear is a control mechanism they always use, why do you think so much news is negative.

Iran your worst enemy? Have you stopped to compare your two countries lately? You have no credible external threats.

But by all means go ahead and destroy yet another country and snuff out millions of innocents because your press told you to. If past preformance is a reliable indicator, you wont disappoint.
Title: Re: Sanctions
Post by: blackforest beekeeper on November 06, 2018, 01:09:34 pm
Sound judgement? Haha.

Most oil is produced synthetically these days. The press are lying when they imply turmoil in the mid east will increase oil prices- they do so to justify the war with Iran they are pushing for. The press is using fear in the form of a threat about oil price hikes to control you and you keep buying into it. Fear is a control mechanism they always use, why do you think so much news is negative.

Iran your worst enemy? Have you stopped to compare your two countries lately? You have no credible external threats.

But by all means go ahead and destroy yet another country and snuff out millions of innocents because your press told you to. If past preformance is a reliable indicator, you wont disappoint.

I am with you as concerning the "enemy"-part. But do consider I am not a US-citizen, if I am mistaken for that.
"oil" is not only lubricant. that is the least part. Its fuel I am talking about.
Title: Re: Sanctions
Post by: kathyp on November 06, 2018, 02:35:05 pm
Sanctions against Iran have been in place in one form or another for decades and for multiple reasons.  The fact that our "allies" choose to support a state sponsor of terrorism and a wannabe nuke power run by nutters is more a problem for them than us.  If Iran goes rogue with nukes it will be the Europeans who get the worst of the result.

To look at Obamas Iran policies without looking at his middle east policies together, is a mistake.  He failed to support the Iranians who might have risen up to change their government, he supported the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt, he took out admittedly despotic leaders who at least were keeping Islamists under control.  A part of that last was to facilitate the murder of Qaddafi and hand Lybia to the radicals.  Doing that only showed future governments in the Middle East that making a deal with us was risky. 
He ran guns to the Syrian rebels who were ISIS, and he abandoned the one good place for us to be, by leaving Iraq and turning much of that over the ISIS and Iran. 

There is not one thing he did with these countries that ended up being a + for the US or for the world.

Irans assets had been frozen and confiscated for a number of reasons over the years.  They were not only frozen by the US, but by the UN.  Obama made a deal that could not be verified or enforced.  He lied about when he started working toward the deal and with whom.  Kerry was involved in making the contacts much earlier than we knew and with hardliners.  Obama collected and sent cash to Iran in a way that was against the US laws which is why he sent foreign money, and it appeared to be ransome payment for hostages. Additionally, they calculated the interest on 400 million in the most favorable way to Iran.  Oh yeah, and then he tried to give Iran access to US banks so they could convert the money, but the banks refused. 

What has Iran been doing with the billions in cash?  Why was Obama on the side of radicals every time?



Title: Re: Sanctions
Post by: cidersabuzzin on November 06, 2018, 03:03:33 pm
Sanctions against Iran have been in place in one form or another for decades and for multiple reasons.  The fact that our "allies" choose to support a state sponsor of terrorism and a wannabe nuke power run by nutters is more a problem for them than us.  If Iran goes rogue with nukes it will be the Europeans who get the worst of the result.

To look at Obamas Iran policies without looking at his middle east policies together, is a mistake.  He failed to support the Iranians who might have risen up to change their government, he supported the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt, he took out admittedly despotic leaders who at least were keeping Islamists under control.  A part of that last was to facilitate the murder of Qaddafi and hand Lybia to the radicals.  Doing that only showed future governments in the Middle East that making a deal with us was risky. 
He ran guns to the Syrian rebels who were ISIS, and he abandoned the one good place for us to be, by leaving Iraq and
turning much of that over the ISIS and Iran. 

There is not one thing he did with these countries that ended up being a + for the US or for the world.

Irans assets had been frozen and confiscated for a number of reasons over the years.  They were not only frozen by the US, but by the UN.  Obama made a deal that could not be verified or enforced.  He lied about when he started working toward the deal and with whom.  Kerry was involved in making the contacts much earlier than we knew and with hardliners.  Obama collected and sent cash to Iran in a way that was against the US laws which is why he sent foreign money, and it appeared to be ransome payment for hostages. Additionally, they calculated the interest on 400 million in the most favorable way to Iran.  Oh yeah, and then he tried to give Iran access to US banks so they could convert the money, but the banks refused. 

What has Iran been doing with the billions in cash?  Why was Obama on the side of radicals every time?
Kathy
Who did the money belong to? Forget the $ GBP euro etc did it belong to Iran or not? Was the US government bring taken to the International court for it's return plus interest? How did it end up in the US if it's because oil is priced in $ should that now be changed? :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Sanctions
Post by: kathyp on November 06, 2018, 04:11:50 pm
Quote
Kathy
Who did the money belong to? Forget the $ GBP euro etc did it belong to Iran or not? Was the US government bring taken to the International court for it's return plus interest? How did it end up in the US if it's because oil is priced in $ should that now be changed?

Do your homework before you ask the question.  The money came from various places under various circumstances and was held not just by the US. 

International court  :cheesy:
Title: Re: Sanctions
Post by: cidersabuzzin on November 06, 2018, 06:05:47 pm
Quote
Kathy
Who did the money belong to? Forget the $ GBP euro etc did it belong to Iran or not? Was the US government bring taken to the International court for it's return plus interest? How did it end up in the US if it's because oil is priced in $ should that now be changed?

Do your homework before you ask the question.  The money came from various places under various circumstances and was held not just by the US. 

International court  :cheesy:

International Arbitration Court :grin:
What happened to the  $400m plus accrued interest, paid by the Shah for the undelivered Fighter Jets?

Maybe this will help;
https://www.quora.com/Is-Donald-Trump-right-that-the-US-gave-Iran-150-billion-dollars
Title: Re: Sanctions
Post by: kathyp on November 06, 2018, 07:11:33 pm
quora might not be your best source for facts  :wink:

That money was part of it.  There was also property, bank accounts, etc.  Some of that money was used to pay the judgments against Iran for terrorist acts.  Some was held in escrow because of the military hardware we did not give to the Islamists after they took over the country. 

None of that is as much the issue as how and why Obama decided to reward them with billions.  Their money or not, it was withheld for a reason.  Now they have it and they are not using it for their people.  They are doing exactly what we knew they would do, funding terrorism, wars, and weapons. 

So, if your argument is "it's their money" well, they have it now.  Happy?
Title: Re: Sanctions
Post by: cidersabuzzin on November 07, 2018, 04:30:24 am
quora might not be your best source for facts  :wink:

That money was part of it.  There was also property, bank accounts, etc.  Some of that money was used to pay the judgments against Iran for terrorist acts.  Some was held in escrow because of the military hardware we did not give to the Islamists after they took over the country. 

None of that is as much the issue as how and why Obama decided to reward them with billions.  Their money or not, it was withheld for a reason.  Now they have it and they are not using it for their people.  They are doing exactly what we knew they would do, funding terrorism, wars, and weapons. 

So, if your argument is "it's their money" well, they have it now.  Happy?

Whether I am happy or not is irrelevant :smile:

As is the smug "well they have it now. Happy" :rolleyes:

If you order and pay for a load of bee equipment from Store 'A' in Berlin but they won't deliver because of how you, they  believe, treat your bees! Not only that, they keep your money and smugly say "until you do as we say"
For the record, I detest the Iranian regime, as I do a 'holier than thou' attitude of some governments/people.  :smile:  :cheesy:
Title: Re: Sanctions
Post by: blackforest beekeeper on November 07, 2018, 04:37:11 am
quora might not be your best source for facts  :wink:

That money was part of it.  There was also property, bank accounts, etc.  Some of that money was used to pay the judgments against Iran for terrorist acts.  Some was held in escrow because of the military hardware we did not give to the Islamists after they took over the country. 

None of that is as much the issue as how and why Obama decided to reward them with billions.  Their money or not, it was withheld for a reason.  Now they have it and they are not using it for their people.  They are doing exactly what we knew they would do, funding terrorism, wars, and weapons. 

So, if your argument is "it's their money" well, they have it now.  Happy?

Whether I am happy or not is irrelevant :smile:

As is the smug "well they have it now. Happy" :rolleyes:

If you order and pay for a load of bee equipment from Store 'A' in Berlin but they won't deliver because of how you, they  believe, treat your bees! Not only that, they keep your money and smugly say "until you do as we say"
For the record, I detest the Iranian regime, as I do a 'holier than thou' attitude of some governments/people.  :smile:  :cheesy:

not only not deliver, but putting up terms to sell your honey to them. maybe even put up demands on ho w to color your house or how to dress your children asf.
Title: Re: Sanctions
Post by: kathyp on November 07, 2018, 12:47:35 pm
So in spite of regime change in '79 we should have sold the weapons to Iran because that was the deal we made with the former government?  The new government that was holding our people hostage?

Makes perfect leftist sense to me.

Title: Re: Sanctions
Post by: cidersabuzzin on November 07, 2018, 12:59:58 pm
So in spite of regime change in '79 we should have sold the weapons to Iran because that was the deal we made with the former government?  The new government that was holding our people hostage?

Makes perfect leftist sense to me.
If you don't want to deliver the planes which I understand, you return the money which belonged to the Iranian people. Not hold onto it like a thief.
Title: Re: Sanctions
Post by: sawdstmakr on November 07, 2018, 01:08:36 pm
Quote: you return the money which belonged to the Iranian people. end quote.
Now that is funny, I don?t care who you are. 😄
A dictator owns all the money except what he allows the people to keep.
Jim







9000
Title: Re: Sanctions
Post by: iddee on November 07, 2018, 01:37:46 pm
Sorry, Cider, Reagan didn't pay for hostage release as O'bummer did. Have you forgotten the 51 Americans they were holding at the time?
Title: Re: Sanctions
Post by: kathyp on November 07, 2018, 03:00:00 pm
Quote
you return the money which belonged to the Iranian people. Not hold onto it like a thief.

Lol.  Yes, it would have gone right to the people just as the money Obama sent went right to the people. 
Title: Re: Sanctions
Post by: Dallasbeek on November 07, 2018, 03:08:22 pm
Under our law, if you lose something in a burglary and the thief sells it to me, I have only the right to own that thing that the thief possessed.  If the police trace the item to me, they can come take it away (without compensating me, since I have no legitimate claim on the recovered property) and return it to you.  If more than one person can claim a legitimate right to that item, the police confiscate the item and hold it until the claims are sorted out.  If the police (here, the U.S. Or banks in the U.S.) turned the item of property (money) over to the wrong claimant, the rightful claimant would still have a claim against the police (U.S.) for the return of the recovered property.   

In the case of Iran, the U.S. and most nations do not recognize the mullahs and their Islamic Revolutionary henchmen as the legitimate government of Iran.  So when Obama turned over to the mullahs the money belonging to the people of Iran, without recognizing the mullahs as the legitimate government of Iran, it was violating the right of the people of Iran, through their legitimate, recognized government, to that money.  We still owe that money to the legitimate government representing the people of Iran, in my opinion. 
Title: Re: Sanctions
Post by: cidersabuzzin on November 07, 2018, 06:41:46 pm
Quote: you return the money which belonged to the Iranian people. end quote.
Now that is funny, I don?t care who you are. 😄
A dictator owns all the money except what he allows the people to keep.
Jim

9000
So....let me get this right....Its OK to sell arms to people like this  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monarchism_in_Iran .... but not to return monies retained illegally?
I wonder if any government would buy stuff from the US and pay up front at a risk of having their money confiscated on a whim.
You only have to look at Trumps business affairs to see were this attitude originates.
   
Title: Re: Sanctions
Post by: Redlands Okie on November 07, 2018, 10:05:37 pm
Iran was beginning to have serious problems and then Obama eased up and gave them a break. Now we are dealing with the results.

Lots of energy sources out there. All countries are free to pursue them as they see fit. Many have decided to let others solve their problems instead of doing more on their own. Relying on the the small production of oil from Iran is perhaps unwise to say the least.

"Relying on the the small production of oil from Iran is perhaps unwise to say the least"

Iran has the Fourth largest oil reserves in the world, think about the jibe "relying on Iranian oil"  the price of oil will rise on the international oil market, damaging lots of countries. The price rise will benefit Venezuela, Saudi Arabia and Russia whilst damaging the economies of long standing friends.......and what for? the votes of the loony rightists in the mid-term elections! :rolleyes:   


Amount of reserves does not matter. What matters is how much is pumped out and sold. Iran has not been much of a producer for a long time.
Title: Re: Sanctions
Post by: Redlands Okie on November 07, 2018, 10:08:27 pm
Sound judgement? Haha.

Most oil is produced synthetically these days. The press are lying when they imply turmoil in the mid east will increase oil prices- they do so to justify the war with Iran they are pushing for. The press is using fear in the form of a threat about oil price hikes to control you and you keep buying into it. Fear is a control mechanism they always use, why do you think so much news is negative.

Iran your worst enemy? Have you stopped to compare your two countries lately? You have no credible external threats.

But by all means go ahead and destroy yet another country and snuff out millions of innocents because your press told you to. If past preformance is a reliable indicator, you wont disappoint.

?Most oil is produced synthetically these days?. Produced from what ?

?snuff out millions of innocents? I guess I missed this in recent history. WW2 maybe ? And that was the Germans and Russians
Title: Re: Sanctions
Post by: Redlands Okie on November 07, 2018, 10:27:37 pm
So in spite of regime change in '79 we should have sold the weapons to Iran because that was the deal we made with the former government?  The new government that was holding our people hostage?

Makes perfect leftist sense to me.
If you don't want to deliver the planes which I understand, you return the money which belonged to the Iranian people. Not hold onto it like a thief.


Weapons deals usually involve much more than money. Other agreements are involved. If those agreements are broken then the contracts are void.

The ?new? Iranian powers that be were not part of the contracts or the money involved if I understand things correctly. The money Obama gave back to the new leaders has been used to support Irans political agenda. Would be interesting to know what Saudi Arabia , Israel,  Egypt and other countries in the area have spent to counter Irans use of that money. How many civilians are maimed and dead in Sudan, Syria, Lebanon, Palestine, (to name a few) where the money went.

It?s not just the USA having issues with money and Iran. One example is that Germany recently has been having issues with over $300 million that Iran wants back. Seems Germany wants assurances it will not be used for terrorist activities. Hard to do when the Iranian ?leaders? are saying in public what the money has been used for.

Never been to Iran but it seems from what I can find out that the average Iranian citizen has not been benefiting from the ?reclaimed? money.
Title: Re: Sanctions
Post by: SilentSkeptic on November 08, 2018, 02:52:42 pm
So disappointed in the responses on here.

What happened to this thread? Maybe I am living on another planet but I am totally confused.

All I asked was how can Iran be your worst enemy?

Iran is a tiny country compared to you. Iran is in a weaker geopolitical position than you, hemmed in by larger rivals. While you exist isolated by the atlantic and pacific.

Crazy. You cant even control who comes into your country and you think Iran is your enemy. You couldnt care less about the 1 million plus illegals walking over your southern border annually...or you would do simething about it. Yet Iran is your enemy.

I've read "Lost Hegemon" by Engdhal, I know your government is waging a psychological war against its own citizens, and your so called free press is a critical part of that.

This is history repeating and reminiscent of how tiny Gemany was your worst enemy, despite you being a continent sized country and friends with the largest empire in history, Britain.

I've noticed an increase in military training exercises in my city, military vehicles with learner drivers turning the commute home into a war zone,  an increase in military job ads, sadly it looks like the decision to invade Iran has already been made.

You dont understand what death means or you would never inflict it on entire nations. Life is but a flicker in what is an eternity of nothingness, why deny others the chance of a fulfilling existence for a war you will complain about as a mistake down the track...which you always do.

Trump might be good economically. But I believe he is acting against majority interest while pretending to be your saviour at the same time. He does things in a hyperbolic manner that alienate your growing minority population against the majority, and also does his best to make you as many enemies internationally as he can. When has he ever even mentioned the word "White" in the context of his voters? Never has.

Dont you find it strange the migrant caravan materialized in the media just as mid terms came up? Who did it benefit? That tells you who was behind it. Trump.

If Trump was genuine he wouldnt feel the need to make his White majority base so many enemies. If he was genuine he would want what was best for America and not act so immature.
Trump just wants to make money for America. He couldnt care less what that America looked like.

I cant stand listening to the media farce anymore- how can you stand listening to it- the way it reflects the mindset of the dual passport holders who run it is amazing.

Governments no longer exist to fix problems, instead their only purpose now is to create them.
Title: Re: Sanctions
Post by: SilentSkeptic on November 08, 2018, 03:01:53 pm
You helped incubate the current Iranian government in France.

You invaded Iran and replaced a democratically elected government with a monarchy.

You have no moral authority when it comes to Iran.

Fix your own backyard. Its a mess.
Title: Re: Sanctions
Post by: kathyp on November 08, 2018, 06:04:55 pm
Quote
So disappointed in the responses on here.

Only because you didn't get the answers you wanted.

Most of your post is crap, but I'll take one part. 

Quote
  All I asked was how can Iran be your worst enemy?

Iran is a tiny country compared to you. Iran is in a weaker geopolitical position than you, hemmed in by larger rivals. While you exist isolated by the atlantic and pacific.

No one lives in isolation these days.  additionally, Hezbollah, an Iran terrorist group, is everywhere on every continent. 

I don't know that anyone called them our worst enemy, however, they may be the most immediately dangerous enemy.  They have a unique religious view even among Muslims.  They believe that the 12th Imam is here and that it is their destiny to usher him onto the public stage.  What is required for this?  A world in chaos and in particular an uprising of pure Islam and the destruction of Israel.  The 12ers believe it is up to them to create these conditions even if they have to martyr themselves to do it.   

So what makes them a great danger?  They are the most likely to use nukes if they get them.  What have they to lose?  They usher in the Mahdi and they have assured paradise in the process. 

why do the Muslim countries fear Israel?  It is a tiny country surrounded by enemies.

what is interesting in watching this is wondering how much of this Obama knew and agreed with.  Intentionally or not he certainly facilitated Irans advance toward its goal. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwiadYT-N9k&feature=youtu.be

 

Title: Re: Sanctions
Post by: kathyp on November 08, 2018, 06:21:57 pm
Here is another good one.  This stuff is pumped out to the people daily.  There are tons of them on youtube so we can imagine what is not public.  I have only picked a couple of the shorter videos, but if you want more there are more.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkQHl-2xIRY
Title: Sanctions
Post by: Redlands Okie on November 09, 2018, 12:24:42 am
Are the new US sanctions against Iran a step too far?
The US is self sufficient in oil, but not much of the rest of world is. Is it right that the US by unilateral imposition of sanctions will damage lots of the rest of the worlds economies?
Haven't the US got it's client state Israel in the area to sort the problem?     

So disappointed in the responses on here.

What happened to this thread? Maybe I am living on another planet but I am totally confused.

All I asked was how can Iran be your worst enemy?

Iran is a tiny country compared to you. Iran is in a weaker geopolitical position than you, hemmed in by larger rivals. While you exist isolated by the atlantic and pacific.

You dont understand what death means or you would never inflict it on entire nations. Life is but a flicker in what is an eternity of nothingness, why deny others the chance of a fulfilling existence for a war you will complain about as a mistake down the track...which you always do.




Iran promotes and funds a variety of terrorist organizations that create a lot of issues for Irans neighbors and elsewhere. Both in lives lost and economies damaged. So it would seem any tool that was able to help decrease this issue would be a good thing. Sanctions being one tool that does get Irans attention and requires little bloodshed.

Israel as client state of the USA is interesting. A lot of todays issues are the result of the polices set in place after WW 1 involving British and France areas of control and their desire to continue to influence. After all how did Israel get started. Seems I read that the British / United Kingdom had a lot to do with that. And has continued to do help out over the years. France has also.

 Why has Iran leaders not used its potential to become a major beneficial power for its own people and its neighbors instead of causing bloodshed and mayhem ?
Title: Re: Sanctions
Post by: blackforest beekeeper on November 09, 2018, 02:38:50 am
Here is another good one.  This stuff is pumped out to the people daily.  There are tons of them on youtube so we can imagine what is not public.  I have only picked a couple of the shorter videos, but if you want more there are more.

I am sure Your PR-agencies are doing a much better job at forming Your opinion.
Title: Re: Sanctions
Post by: blackforest beekeeper on November 09, 2018, 02:48:18 am
Are the new US sanctions against Iran a step too far?
The US is self sufficient in oil, but not much of the rest of world is. Is it right that the US by unilateral imposition of sanctions will damage lots of the rest of the worlds economies?
Haven't the US got it's client state Israel in the area to sort the problem?     

So disappointed in the responses on here.

What happened to this thread? Maybe I am living on another planet but I am totally confused.

All I asked was how can Iran be your worst enemy?

Iran is a tiny country compared to you. Iran is in a weaker geopolitical position than you, hemmed in by larger rivals. While you exist isolated by the atlantic and pacific.

You dont understand what death means or you would never inflict it on entire nations. Life is but a flicker in what is an eternity of nothingness, why deny others the chance of a fulfilling existence for a war you will complain about as a mistake down the track...which you always do.




Iran promotes and funds a variety of terrorist organizations that create a lot of issues for Irans neighbors and elsewhere. Both in lives lost and economies damaged. So it would seem any tool that was able to help decrease this issue would be a good thing. Sanctions being one tool that does get Irans attention and requires little bloodshed.

Israel as client state of the USA is interesting. A lot of todays issues are the result of the polices set in place after WW 1 involving British and France areas of control and their desire to continue to influence. After all how did Israel get started. Seems I read that the British / United Kingdom had a lot to do with that. And has continued to do help out over the years. France has also.

 Why has Iran leaders not used its potential to become a major beneficial power for its own people and its neighbors instead of causing bloodshed and mayhem ?

Iran was in the zone of british influence. when Iran chose a democratic government which did some good for its people by taking the oil-exploitation out of britsh hands, UK and USA managed a regime-change and put a monarch in place who was like a pet to US and UK. population did not do well under him. so there was a revolt.
regime changes are not an allowed means in my opinion.
The Iranian people is very proud of its country. They have a history of culture a lot longer than Europe or any country having its roots in Europe.
But they would not be the enemies of the US if the US propaganda wouldn`t make them to be just that successfully. As is, this view is exportet to all western countries...
Title: Re: Sanctions
Post by: SilentSkeptic on November 09, 2018, 08:26:46 am
Repeating media originated talking points and getting caught up in their prissy false dialect isnt thinking.

I havent watched the news for 12 months now. I stopped watching after Trump demonstrated he was completely unfit for any leadership role after making the decision to engage in war with Syria based solely on his daughters emotional whims.

What happened to America First?!!!!!

Trump is acting the populist comedic charicature they like to portray all populist leaders in the guise of, so nobody takes them seriously. The formula works.

Reading the latest news on Iran and the rhetoric from the US is vicious. Why?!

Trying to justify military action in Iran shows you cant think about your own country critically and therefore are not a legitimate source. Everyone knows Iran is the last domino to fall in order for Israel to gain military supremacy over the entire middle east.

Only a matter of time before they want military supremacy over you.

I was using this place to gauge opinion in America, but its gotten to a point where you are letting a hostile media divide your country with stupid issues that its boring to read.

You wont last 20, let alone 200, years, with a hostile media and your multicultural demigraphic.
Title: Re: Sanctions
Post by: SilentSkeptic on November 09, 2018, 08:37:40 am
Quote
So disappointed in the responses on here.

Only because you didn't get the answers you wanted.

Most of your post is crap, but I'll take one part. 

Quote
  All I asked was how can Iran be your worst enemy?

Iran is a tiny country compared to you. Iran is in a weaker geopolitical position than you, hemmed in by larger rivals. While you exist isolated by the atlantic and pacific.

No one lives in isolation these days.  additionally, Hezbollah, an Iran terrorist group, is everywhere on every continent. 

I don't know that anyone called them our worst enemy, however, they may be the most immediately dangerous enemy.  They have a unique religious view even among Muslims.  They believe that the 12th Imam is here and that it is their destiny to usher him onto the public stage.  What is required for this?  A world in chaos and in particular an uprising of pure Islam and the destruction of Israel.  The 12ers believe it is up to them to create these conditions even if they have to martyr themselves to do it.   

So what makes them a great danger?  They are the most likely to use nukes if they get them.  What have they to lose?  They usher in the Mahdi and they have assured paradise in the process. 

why do the Muslim countries fear Israel?  It is a tiny country surrounded by enemies.

what is interesting in watching this is wondering how much of this Obama knew and agreed with.  Intentionally or not he certainly facilitated Irans advance toward its goal. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwiadYT-N9k&feature=youtu.be

Great example you chose here. Except you forgot to add the part where Israel has similar views
regarding the prerequisites required for their messiah to come.

You also miss the part where your gov propped up all these extremist islamic schools for the sole purpose of destabilising the region in order to enact the Israelis religious prophecy.

You expect me to believe a nation like Iran that has been invaded numerous times by you in recent history and that has faced massive internal disruption instigated by you, somehow posseses the capabilities to create an international terror network?

Look at the size to population ratio of Iran, it doesnt posses the resources to pull that feat off.

It makes more sense that the Jewish dyaspora, who make up the richest 1% everywhere they exist , and who are international, and who are what is referred to as "the deep state" are behind this.

Your gov is hostile to your own interests. All these shootings, terror attacks, are looking more and more unorganic by the day.

Trump and Israel have what they need, unwavering loyal supporters.






Title: Re: Sanctions
Post by: kathyp on November 09, 2018, 01:37:38 pm
Quote
Great example you chose here. Except you forgot to add the part where Israel has similar views
regarding the prerequisites required for their messiah to come.

A lot of religions have similar end times prophecies.  The difference is that Iran has openly embraced their perceived role as the facilitator of those prophecies.

Look, we know what you are and because of what you are you are not interested in conversation.  You are interested in pushing an anti-Semitic agenda.  You asked why some of us thought Iran was a danger and I gave you my reasons.  Take it or leave it.
Title: Re: Sanctions
Post by: Redlands Okie on November 09, 2018, 02:36:05 pm
Quote
So disappointed in the responses on here.

Only because you didn't get the answers you wanted.

Most of your post is crap, but I'll take one part. 

Quote
  All I asked was how can Iran be your worst enemy?

Iran is a tiny country compared to you. Iran is in a weaker geopolitical position than you, hemmed in by larger rivals. While you exist isolated by the atlantic and pacific.

No one lives in isolation these days.  additionally, Hezbollah, an Iran terrorist group, is everywhere on every continent. 

I don't know that anyone called them our worst enemy, however, they may be the most immediately dangerous enemy.  They have a unique religious view even among Muslims.  They believe that the 12th Imam is here and that it is their destiny to usher him onto the public stage.  What is required for this?  A world in chaos and in particular an uprising of pure Islam and the destruction of Israel.  The 12ers believe it is up to them to create these conditions even if they have to martyr themselves to do it.   

So what makes them a great danger?  They are the most likely to use nukes if they get them.  What have they to lose?  They usher in the Mahdi and they have assured paradise in the process. 

why do the Muslim countries fear Israel?  It is a tiny country surrounded by enemies.

what is interesting in watching this is wondering how much of this Obama knew and agreed with.  Intentionally or not he certainly facilitated Irans advance toward its goal. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwiadYT-N9k&feature=youtu.be

Great example you chose here. Except you forgot to add the part where Israel has similar views
regarding the prerequisites required for their messiah to come.

You also miss the part where your gov propped up all these extremist islamic schools for the sole purpose of destabilising the region in order to enact the Israelis religious prophecy.

You expect me to believe a nation like Iran that has been invaded numerous times by you in recent history and that has faced massive internal disruption instigated by you, somehow posseses the capabilities to create an international terror network?

Look at the size to population ratio of Iran, it doesnt posses the resources to pull that feat off.

It makes more sense that the Jewish dyaspora, who make up the richest 1% everywhere they exist , and who are international, and who are what is referred to as "the deep state" are behind this.

Your gov is hostile to your own interests. All these shootings, terror attacks, are looking more and more unorganic by the day.

Trump and Israel have what they need, unwavering loyal supporters.


Who and when has Iran been invaded in recent history by someone other than Iraq?

Title: Re: Sanctions
Post by: SilentSkeptic on November 10, 2018, 01:44:05 am
You are interested in pushing an anti-Semitic agenda. You asked why some of us thought Iran was a danger and I gave you my reasons.  Take it or leave it.


The only one pushing an anti-Semitic agenda is you lot with the derogatory way you speak about the peoples of the Middle East. You are Islam haters. I am merely scrutinizing Jews.

Even if we accept your argument the media stories are legitimate, that still doesnt explain the immature way Trump is carrying on with the sanctions, and the game of thrones reference.
Title: Re: Sanctions
Post by: jvalentour on November 10, 2018, 09:42:09 am
By most people's standards, you are the crazy one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DXDr4pGiGc
https://heathenwomen.com/2016/09/02/nemos-antisemitic-universe/

Even liberal Youtube thinks you're nuts.
Title: Re: Sanctions
Post by: SilentSkeptic on November 10, 2018, 09:57:05 am
By most people's standards, you are the crazy one.
Even liberal Youtube thinks you're nuts.

You're a bunch of anti-Islam haters. You speak about 1 billion people in a derogatory way OPENLY and think thats ok. Nothig I said contained hate. Facts and truth are what I am about. If anyone is nuts, it's you.

FYI my location is a joke, and yes it is based on that video, which is humour, but why post it here? It has nothing to do with this topic.

You accuse me to anti-Semitism, one breath after you have finished espousing hateful anti-Islam remarks, and you wonder why I put my location as what I did. Because that statement is so true and you just prove it by accusing me of being antisemitic.

Why would anyone keep inflicting pain on themselves by continuing to visit this hateful place? Never coming back here to read your immature one liners.

Enjoy your wars.
Title: Re: Sanctions
Post by: jvalentour on November 10, 2018, 10:11:58 am
In 2015, Argentine federal prosecutor Alberto Nisman filed a 300-page document accusing Cristina Fernandez Kirchner of covering up Iran?s role in the 1994 bombing of the AMIA Jewish community center in Buenos Aires.[5] Nisman was murdered hours before he was due to testify against the former president,[6] which the Federal Court of Buenos Aires ruled as a "direct consequence" of Nisman's accusations against Kirchner.[7] In 2017, Judge Claudio Bonadio accused Kirchner of treason and called on the country?s senate to permit her arrest and trial for allegedly covering up Iranian involvement in a 1994 bomb attack.[8][9] Kirchner is currently referred for public trial over alleged cover-up of Iranian involvement in 1994 Jewish center bombing.[10][11]

I'm just putting your advertisements on the forum.  If you don't like them then take them off. 
My one liners come with research, what do your's come with?  Opinion and emotion?
Title: Re: Sanctions
Post by: SilentSkeptic on November 10, 2018, 10:18:07 am
I'm just putting your advertisements on the forum.  If you don't like them then take them off. 
My one liners come with research, what do your's come with?  Opinion and emotion?

Hmm I suppose Hadrian, Catherine The Great, Shakespeare, and a host of other well known and respected historical figures just woke up one day with a bout of anti-Semitism for no rational reason whatsoever.

You're a Jewish supremacist trying to push an agenda. I get it. It wouldn't bother me apart from the fact you're killing innocent people and ruining nations.

Why does anyone put advertisements, as you call them, on? Why single me out.

You are using leftist tactics to shift focus by trying to ruin my credability. You did it before. Smart peope know what's up, I don't need to push any agenda.


You have deomonstrated yourselves to be Christian Zionists, I get that. Just don't denigrade anyone who wants their society to be successful, cohesive ,where people work towards the same goals and are not divided by money, are autonomous and peaceful, just because it doesn't gel with your warped belief system.
Title: Re: Sanctions
Post by: jvalentour on November 10, 2018, 10:32:55 am
You're a Jewish supremacist  Thank you for telling me that, I didn't know.

you're killing innocent people and ruining nations  I'm much more powerful than I thought. 

Why single me out  Because you're a fool.

You are using leftist tactics to shift focus  No, I'm using your words to focus on you.

trying to ruin my credability  With whom do you have credibility?  (Please check your spelling).

I don't need to push any agenda.  Then don't.

SS,
You bore me, I'm leaving now to go hunting.  Best of luck with your life.
JV







Title: Re: Sanctions
Post by: iddee on November 10, 2018, 02:10:42 pm
Yes, we condemn Islamist and devil worshipers. We also condemn cannibals and other people we have found to have a long history of evil.

As far as being a Jew, I am blonde, so I doubt I am, but would love to be. As a group, they are the finest people I have ever encountered.

PS. You're late, J., The venison jerky is in the dehydrator and I'm about to put the squirrels on to cook. The hunting is done for now.
Title: Re: Sanctions
Post by: kathyp on November 10, 2018, 02:50:00 pm
Quote
I am merely scrutinizing Jews.

Well, that's one way of putting it. 

While you lump one bunch of people together, most of us understand that different cultures and beliefs even within the same religion lead to different actions.  You are singled out because you have a toxic point of view about an entire group of people.

Again, you asked specifically about Iran.  The religious leaders of Iran have a unique view of their place in Islamic prophecy.  This makes them particularly dangerous.  You can accept that or not.  It makes no difference to me. 

Quote
It wouldn't bother me apart from the fact you're killing innocent people and ruining nations.

Yes, that happens.  It also happens when Islamists take over countries and ruin them and kill innocent people.  Sometimes they just kill innocent people.  Of course, they label all non-Muslims as Infidels and consider the Muslims they "accidentally" kill as acceptable collateral damage.  To their mind I suppose they are not killing innocent people.

I make a distinction between Islamists and the majority of Muslims.  Islamist have taken every country they control back into the dark ages.  If you think that's Ok, that is your choice.   I think killing as many of them as often as possible is a better choice.
Title: Re: Sanctions
Post by: cidersabuzzin on November 10, 2018, 06:48:12 pm
Yes, we condemn Islamist and devil worshipers. We also condemn cannibals and other people we have found to have a long history of evil.

As far as being a Jew, I am blonde, so I doubt I am, but would love to be. As a group, they are the finest people I have ever encountered.

PS. You're late, J., The venison jerky is in the dehydrator and I'm about to put the squirrels on to cook. The hunting is done for now.
you eat Rats with bushy tails? Yuk!  :wink::cheesy: :cheesy: :cheesy: :cheesy:
Still...... if you can't get un-chlorinated chicken!  :grin: What to do? Wrap in BS and roast over an open fire? :wink:
Title: Re: Sanctions
Post by: SilentSkeptic on November 10, 2018, 11:38:39 pm
In 2015, Argentine federal prosecutor Alberto Nisman filed a 300-page document accusing Cristina Fernandez Kirchner of covering up Iran?s role in the 1994 bombing of the AMIA Jewish community center in Buenos Aires.[5] Nisman was murdered hours before he was due to testify against the former president,[6] which the Federal Court of Buenos Aires ruled as a "direct consequence" of Nisman's accusations against Kirchner.[7] In 2017, Judge Claudio Bonadio accused Kirchner of treason and called on the country?s senate to permit her arrest and trial for allegedly covering up Iranian involvement in a 1994 bomb attack.[8][9] Kirchner is currently referred for public trial over alleged cover-up of Iranian involvement in 1994 Jewish center bombing.[10][11]

How does Kirchner benefit from covering up Iran's role in the bombing of a Jewish community centre? She doesn't.

How does Iran benefit from bombing a Jewish community centre? It doesn't.

The only beneficiary are Jewish supremacists wanting to push an anti-Iran agenda.

Throwing an article in my face from a Jewish owned source isn't giving me impartial information about the world. Only your biased narrow view.


You're a Jewish supremacist  Thank you for telling me that, I didn't know.

you're killing innocent people and ruining nations  I'm much more powerful than I thought. 

Why single me out  Because you're a fool.

You are using leftist tactics to shift focus  No, I'm using your words to focus on you.

trying to ruin my credability  With whom do you have credibility?  (Please check your spelling).

I don't need to push any agenda.  Then don't.

SS,
You bore me, I'm leaving now to go hunting.  Best of luck with your life.
JV

You love to go branding around blanket terms but hate it when someone gives you a taste of your own medicine.

Only cowards go out and kill innocent animals with guns for fun.


Quote
I am merely scrutinizing Jews.

Well, that's one way of putting it. 

While you lump one bunch of people together, most of us understand that different cultures and beliefs even within the same religion lead to different actions.  You are singled out because you have a toxic point of view about an entire group of people.

Again, you asked specifically about Iran.  The religious leaders of Iran have a unique view of their place in Islamic prophecy.  This makes them particularly dangerous.  You can accept that or not.  It makes no difference to me. 

Quote
It wouldn't bother me apart from the fact you're killing innocent people and ruining nations.

Yes, that happens.  It also happens when Islamists take over countries and ruin them and kill innocent people.  Sometimes they just kill innocent people.  Of course, they label all non-Muslims as Infidels and consider the Muslims they "accidentally" kill as acceptable collateral damage.  To their mind I suppose they are not killing innocent people.

I make a distinction between Islamists and the majority of Muslims.  Islamist have taken every country they control back into the dark ages.  If you think that's Ok, that is your choice.   I think killing as many of them as often as possible is a better choice.

You are accusing me of things you have been doing all this time! Wouldn't expect you to even care about your own double standards.

You turn a blind eye to the horrors in Palestine while ignoring the fact your own CIA propped up all these extremist Islamic organizations! If Islam is killing people, it's because you created the radical component. You want to destabilize the middle east so they are unable to rule themselves, just as you have done everywhere else, and are currently doing in Australia with our constant rotating door of Prime Ministers. You are trying to get the populations in the countries you create chaos in to give up hope in the political process so we don't care who is in charge.

Why is it all these terrorist attacks originated AFTER you declared a "war on terror"? You are pushing the war on terror agenda, whose ultimate conclusion is a global police state where any scrutiny is labelled as terrorism or anti-Semitism.

Just keep dodging my points. I don't make blanket statements about entire groups of people without evidence, and there is plenty of evidence out there that has it's origin from the very people I am concerned about. Dominant minorities aern't a new thing, but pretending they don't exist when all evidence says otherwise is lunacy. Explain away Michael Ron David Kadar and Shai Masot.

Again, people don't form their opinions in a vacuum. I used to hold all the conservative  positions you do. I even used to be a liberal once and thought my people were the worst thing to ever exist. Problem is reality reflects the conspiracies, right down to the immigration agenda. I know it's easier to keep existing in the fantasy world created by the media, but unplugging the TV and taking a look outside never hurt anyone.

I rail against this group of people because I care about the innocent young people who are being needlessly radicalized by all these CIA psy ops. Be it Islamic Extremism, Black Power or White Supremacy websites, it is your own CIA who is behind all these knowingly creating a false dialect just so you can say you have another enemy to fight.

Cider[/b you bait us all with these topics then fail to engage in intellectual discussion? You represent the majority of people- who think everything is one big joke and who are bored by anyone who takes things seriosuly. Well, eventually,the joke will be on you when you lose everything.
Title: Re: Sanctions
Post by: cidersabuzzin on November 11, 2018, 04:50:48 am
In 2015, Argentine federal prosecutor Alberto Nisman filed a 300-page document accusing Cristina Fernandez Kirchner of covering up Iran?s role in the 1994 bombing of the AMIA Jewish community center in Buenos Aires.[5] Nisman was murdered hours before he was due to testify against the former president,[6] which the Federal Court of Buenos Aires ruled as a "direct consequence" of Nisman's accusations against Kirchner.[7] In 2017, Judge Claudio Bonadio accused Kirchner of treason and called on the country?s senate to permit her arrest and trial for allegedly covering up Iranian involvement in a 1994 bomb attack.[8][9] Kirchner is currently referred for public trial over alleged cover-up of Iranian involvement in 1994 Jewish center bombing.[10][11]

How does Kirchner benefit from covering up Iran's role in the bombing of a Jewish community centre? She doesn't.

How does Iran benefit from bombing a Jewish community centre? It doesn't.

The only beneficiary are Jewish supremacists wanting to push an anti-Iran agenda.

Throwing an article in my face from a Jewish owned source isn't giving me impartial information about the world. Only your biased narrow view.


You're a Jewish supremacist  Thank you for telling me that, I didn't know.

you're killing innocent people and ruining nations  I'm much more powerful than I thought. 

Why single me out  Because you're a fool.

You are using leftist tactics to shift focus  No, I'm using your words to focus on you.

trying to ruin my credability  With whom do you have credibility?  (Please check your spelling).

I don't need to push any agenda.  Then don't.

SS,
You bore me, I'm leaving now to go hunting.  Best of luck with your life.
JV

You love to go branding around blanket terms but hate it when someone gives you a taste of your own medicine.

Only cowards go out and kill innocent animals with guns for fun.


Quote
I am merely scrutinizing Jews.

Well, that's one way of putting it. 

While you lump one bunch of people together, most of us understand that different cultures and beliefs even within the same religion lead to different actions.  You are singled out because you have a toxic point of view about an entire group of people.

Again, you asked specifically about Iran.  The religious leaders of Iran have a unique view of their place in Islamic prophecy.  This makes them particularly dangerous.  You can accept that or not.  It makes no difference to me. 

Quote
It wouldn't bother me apart from the fact you're killing innocent people and ruining nations.

Yes, that happens.  It also happens when Islamists take over countries and ruin them and kill innocent people.  Sometimes they just kill innocent people.  Of course, they label all non-Muslims as Infidels and consider the Muslims they "accidentally" kill as acceptable collateral damage.  To their mind I suppose they are not killing innocent people.

I make a distinction between Islamists and the majority of Muslims.  Islamist have taken every country they control back into the dark ages.  If you think that's Ok, that is your choice.   I think killing as many of them as often as possible is a better choice.

You are accusing me of things you have been doing all this time! Wouldn't expect you to even care about your own double standards.

You turn a blind eye to the horrors in Palestine while ignoring the fact your own CIA propped up all these extremist Islamic organizations! If Islam is killing people, it's because you created the radical component. You want to destabilize the middle east so they are unable to rule themselves, just as you have done everywhere else, and are currently doing in Australia with our constant rotating door of Prime Ministers. You are trying to get the populations in the countries you create chaos in to give up hope in the political process so we don't care who is in charge.

Why is it all these terrorist attacks originated AFTER you declared a "war on terror"? You are pushing the war on terror agenda, whose ultimate conclusion is a global police state where any scrutiny is labelled as terrorism or anti-Semitism.

Just keep dodging my points. I don't make blanket statements about entire groups of people without evidence, and there is plenty of evidence out there that has it's origin from the very people I am concerned about. Dominant minorities aern't a new thing, but pretending they don't exist when all evidence says otherwise is lunacy. Explain away Michael Ron David Kadar and Shai Masot.

Again, people don't form their opinions in a vacuum. I used to hold all the conservative  positions you do. I even used to be a liberal once and thought my people were the worst thing to ever exist. Problem is reality reflects the conspiracies, right down to the immigration agenda. I know it's easier to keep existing in the fantasy world created by the media, but unplugging the TV and taking a look outside never hurt anyone.

I rail against this group of people because I care about the innocent young people who are being needlessly radicalized by all these CIA psy ops. Be it Islamic Extremism, Black Power or White Supremacy websites, it is your own CIA who is behind all these knowingly creating a false dialect just so you can say you have another enemy to fight.

Cider[/b you bait us all with these topics then fail to engage in intellectual discussion? You represent the majority of people- who think everything is one big joke and who are bored by anyone who takes things seriosuly. Well, eventually,the joke will be on you when you lose everything.

No, you are the joke. :rolleyes:

I "bait" with occasional serious topics to get conversations started. Where would the interest in 'coffee house' be if all we had was.......iddee's rightists rants, Kathy's condescension, Dallas's legalese and jvaentour's........well lets not go there! :grin: I keep reminding iddee about the 'pinch of salt' maybe you need a pack or two.
I only act as the 'punch bag,' your the laughing stock but fail to see it.  :cheesy:
Title: Re: Sanctions
Post by: kathyp on November 11, 2018, 10:57:32 am
Think I'll take my own advice and use the off button for this conversation.  Only so much stupid I can take before a pot of coffee!
Title: Re: Sanctions
Post by: iddee on November 11, 2018, 02:21:54 pm
Cider, rats are omnivorous. Squirrels are vegetarian. BIG difference.
Title: Re: Sanctions
Post by: cidersabuzzin on November 11, 2018, 05:00:13 pm
Cider, rats are omnivorous. Squirrels are vegetarian. BIG difference.
Still a Rodent iddee, full of all sorts of diseases. On occasion, eastern grey squirrels also prey upon insects, frogs, small rodents including other squirrels, and small birds, their eggs, and young. They also gnaw on bones, antlers, and turtle shells ? likely as a source of minerals scarce in their normal diet.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_gray_squirrel#As_food
 But better than Chlorinated Chicken I suppose! :wink: Doe's it taste like it though?
 BTW I think KPs a bit peed off at the moment, could you lend her a bit of your salt.? :smile:
regards
cider
Title: Re: Sanctions
Post by: iddee on November 11, 2018, 06:50:41 pm
Show a case of disease in a human contacted from eating squirrel. I don't think you can. Most of your post, as usual, is BS. Squirrel taste like squirrel. Gray meat, and quite chewy.

PS. Do you eat chicken? You do know they eat there own poop, don't you. Along with mice, maggots, carrion, and other delicious delicacies.
Enjoy them. I'll stick with squirrel, venison, and rabbit.
Title: Re: Sanctions
Post by: cidersabuzzin on November 11, 2018, 07:34:42 pm
Show a case of disease in a human contacted from eating squirrel. I don't think you can. Most of your post, as usual, is BS. Squirrel taste like squirrel. Gray meat, and quite chewy.

PS. Do you eat chicken? You do know they eat there own poop, don't you. Along with mice, maggots, carrion, and other delicious delicacies.
Enjoy them. I'll stick with squirrel, venison, and rabbit.
Quite like venison and rabbit, not too sure about the rodent, Then again the eating habits of Deer and Rabbits probably leave a lot to be desired :rolleyes: maybe we should become veggies! :wink: Seriously why eat squirrel?....You must have a  McDonald's near you? But then again the French eat frogs :rolleyes:....so there is no accounting for taste :cheesy: It's midnight here so time to reflect and sleep on it, night night! :grin:
Title: Re: Sanctions
Post by: iddee on November 11, 2018, 08:07:44 pm
""Quite like venison and rabbit, not to sure about the rodent,""

Talk about "off the wall", don't you know a rabbit is a rodent.   :shocked: :cheesy:
Title: Re: Sanctions
Post by: cidersabuzzin on November 12, 2018, 04:33:55 am
""Quite like venison and rabbit, not to sure about the rodent,""

Talk about "off the wall", don't you know a rabbit is a rodent.   :shocked: :cheesy:

Are you sure iddee, or is it just one more of your prejudice's? after all they are Brown coloured. :rolleyes:

Family‎: ‎Leporidae‎; in part
Kingdom‎: ‎Animalia
Order‎: ‎Lagomorpha
Class‎:Mammalia
‎Lagomorpha ? ‎Leporidae ? ‎Domestic rabbit ? ‎European rabbit  :wink: :cheesy: :cheesy: :cheesy:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabbit
Title: Re: Sanctions
Post by: iddee on November 12, 2018, 08:27:47 am
OK, so I'm behind times.

""Rabbits and hares were formerly classified in the order Rodentia (rodent) until 1912, when they were moved into a new order, Lagomorpha (which also includes pikas). Below are some of the genera and species of the rabbit. ""

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabbit
Title: Re: Sanctions
Post by: cidersabuzzin on November 12, 2018, 08:59:44 am
OK, so I'm behind times.

""Rabbits and hares were formerly classified in the order Rodentia (rodent) until 1912, when they were moved into a new order, Lagomorpha (which also includes pikas). Below are some of the genera and species of the rabbit. ""

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabbit

Now I know where your reasoning comes from:

As food
Main article: Tree squirrel ? As food

Gray squirrels were eaten in earlier times by Native Americans and their meat is still popular with hunters across most of their range in North America. Today, it is still available for human consumption and is occasionally sold in the United Kingdom.[51] However, physicians in the United States have warned that squirrel brains should not be eaten, because of the risk that they may carry Creutzfeldt?Jakob disease.[52]  :wink: iddee, better see the doc quick :sad: (I wonder if they have pills for that?) :smile:
Title: Re: Sanctions
Post by: iddee on November 12, 2018, 09:13:01 am
Seems to be much more of that caught from eating UK beef than squirrel brains.  :shocked:

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/creutzfeldt-jakob-disease/symptoms-causes/syc-20371226

Maybe you should be seeing your doctor. You seem to have been showing symptoms lately.   :cheesy: :cheesy: :cheesy:
Title: Re: Sanctions
Post by: herbhome on November 12, 2018, 09:44:40 am
Ahh, nothing better than fried squirrel and biscuits and gravy for breakfast. Nothing better! :smile:
Title: Re: Sanctions
Post by: jvalentour on November 12, 2018, 09:47:58 am
I'm pleased to see that Cider is researching prior to commenting.

Never crossed my mind to eat squirrel brains.....
Title: Re: Sanctions
Post by: cidersabuzzin on November 12, 2018, 10:04:47 am
Seems to be much more of that caught from eating UK beef than squirrel brains.  :shocked:

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/creutzfeldt-jakob-disease/symptoms-causes/syc-20371226

Maybe you should be seeing your doctor. You seem to have been showing symptoms lately.   :cheesy: :cheesy: :cheesy:

CJD captured public attention in the 1990s when some people in the United Kingdom developed a form of the disease ? variant CJD (vCJD) ? after eating meat from diseased cattle. However, "classic" Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease hasn't been linked to contaminated beef.

vCJD has been nearly eradicated in the UK population of cows. Can you say the same about your tree rats? :wink:
Title: Re: Sanctions
Post by: iddee on November 12, 2018, 12:29:39 pm
""vCJD has been nearly eradicated in the UK population of cows""

That says it all. Now show me which is more prevalent, even after ""NEAR"" eradication.
Title: Re: Sanctions
Post by: cidersabuzzin on November 12, 2018, 01:40:58 pm
""vCJD has been nearly eradicated in the UK population of cows""

That says it all. Now show me which is more prevalent, even after ""NEAR"" eradication.
Well since your tree rats are wild I don't think you will ever know and just have to take the chance............but in the UK

http://www.oie.int/animal-health-in-the-world/bse-situation-in-the-world-and-annual-incidence-rate/number-of-cases-in-the-united-kingdom/

in 2016 there were 0 cases notified I'll not increase the font size it looks childish. :cheesy:
Now can you get me figures of how many of your tree rats have vCJD? :cheesy: (start looking for the pills iddee , look for the pills)
Title: Re: Sanctions
Post by: iddee on November 12, 2018, 02:02:48 pm
Zero, cider. It has never happened. It all came from info out of the UK.  Just more of your country's BS.

https://www.democratandchronicle.com/story/news/2018/10/19/squirrel-brains-infectious-disease-cruetzfeldt-jakob-wasting-hunting-game-meat/1684817002/
Title: Re: Sanctions
Post by: jvalentour on November 12, 2018, 03:21:34 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTkwobMYjTA
Title: Re: Sanctions
Post by: cidersabuzzin on November 12, 2018, 05:42:41 pm
I'm pleased to see that Cider is researching prior to commenting.

Never crossed my mind to eat squirrel brains.....
Why do you think the spinal column from slaughtered cows has to be removed, before they enter the food chain? :rolleyes:
You may be having to look for the pills like iddee.
Title: Re: Sanctions
Post by: cidersabuzzin on November 12, 2018, 06:12:40 pm
Zero, cider. It has never happened. It all came from info out of the UK.  Just more of your country's BS.

https://www.democratandchronicle.com/story/news/2018/10/19/squirrel-brains-infectious-disease-cruetzfeldt-jakob-wasting-hunting-game-meat/1684817002/

"But the fact that the person did eat the neurological tissue from a game meat led Lesho to caution hunters". ie squirrel brains. :rolleyes:  what is attached to the brain? the spinal cord which has to be removed from cattle before entering the food chain. I think I would be tempted to remove the tree rats before 'pan frying it'. Yuk :rolleyes:
Better to stick with the KFCs but then again that's washed in chlorinated water. :cheesy: No, stick to the tree rats.
Title: Re: Sanctions
Post by: cidersabuzzin on November 12, 2018, 06:35:34 pm
Zero, cider. It has never happened. It all came from info out of the UK.  Just more of your country's BS.

https://www.democratandchronicle.com/story/news/2018/10/19/squirrel-brains-infectious-disease-cruetzfeldt-jakob-wasting-hunting-game-meat/1684817002/

iddee can you clarify your aspersion "It all came from info out of the UK.  Just more of your country's BS"
Are you referring to the paper because its got 'democrat' in the title?
Or is 'it' creeping up on you. :wink: P&S P&S
Title: Re: Sanctions
Post by: iddee on November 13, 2018, 05:10:00 pm
""The ?squirrel brain? case dated to 2015, when a man came to the hospital with neurological symptoms. After imaging tests, doctors suspected the man had CJD, which gained notoriety in the 1980s with an outbreak in Britain of what was called mad cow disease.""

Get someone to read the article if you can't comprehend it.
Title: Re: Sanctions
Post by: kathyp on November 13, 2018, 05:12:33 pm
I knew I had just seen this somewhere.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-10-18/mad-cow-disease-case-confirmed-on-farm-in-scotland

 :cheesy:
Title: Re: Sanctions
Post by: cidersabuzzin on November 13, 2018, 06:14:39 pm
I knew I had just seen this somewhere.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-10-18/mad-cow-disease-case-confirmed-on-farm-in-scotland

 :cheesy:
I notice you didn't mention this:
New Case of BSE Detected in United States

On August 29, 2018, the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) announced a confirmed atypical, H-type case of bovine spongiform encephalopathy (BSE) in a six-year-old mixed-breed beef cow in Florida.  USDA reported that this animal never entered the food supply and at no time presented a risk to human health. See the USDA notice External.
Cases Identified in the United States

There have been  six cases of BSE identified in the United States: Alabama (2), California (1), Florida (1), Texas (1), and Washington (1).
https://www.cdc.gov/prions/bse/bse-north-america.html

Yet one case in Scotland is worthy of a mention! Could be construed as 'Fake News' with a bit of condescension thrown in.