Beemaster's International Beekeeping Forum

BEEKEEPING LEARNING CENTER => THE TRADING POST => Topic started by: excc309 on January 31, 2018, 11:13:28 am

Title: German Black Bees for sale in the US
Post by: excc309 on January 31, 2018, 11:13:28 am
Looking for a queen or package of these bees...not having much luck.  Any sources that you know of?
Title: Re: German Black Bees for sale in the US
Post by: sawdstmakr on January 31, 2018, 09:23:47 pm
I doubt that you will find any. They are darn near extinct. Only a few pockets of them left, In Australia or New Zeland I think.
They are a very agressive bee.
Jim
Title: Re: German Black Bees for sale in the US
Post by: beepro on January 31, 2018, 09:38:53 pm
Scotland and England still have them.  It would be too far to get them though.  Beekeepers don't like those
aggressive bees.   Try to search for friends of the black bees online.   I once subscribed to a newsletter but nothing
has send out to me since 2 years ago.
Title: Re: German Black Bees for sale in the US
Post by: Dallasbeek on January 31, 2018, 10:28:41 pm
I see some black or very dark bees working flowers in my yards sometimes, but think they are feral bees.  They look a little smaller than Italian bees.  What I'm seeing are not solitary bees, but dark bees all over my sage blossoms.  Could these be what you are referring to and the kind that first were brought to America?
Title: Re: German Black Bees for sale in the US
Post by: sawdstmakr on February 01, 2018, 12:38:55 am
American Indians called them white man?s flies. They did not like them at all.
Jim
Title: Re: German Black Bees for sale in the US
Post by: Dallasbeek on February 01, 2018, 01:16:55 am
Especially when the flies stung them.  Understandable. :cool:
Title: Re: German Black Bees for sale in the US
Post by: Michael Bush on February 01, 2018, 08:47:21 am
>"American Indians called them white man's flies"

This always traces back to Thomas Jefferson.  I can't find any other source nor his source.  Lakota have real names (not made up names like European things) for honey bees, honey and beeswax.  One of our words for bee is "wichayazipa". Beeswax is "wichayazipa wigli" which means literally "bees fat". Bumble bee is Wichayazipa hinsma. Honey bee is "wichayazipa thunkce" which can also mean honey bee. That is as opposed to words like "wichayazipa zi" (yellow jacket) and "chanhanpi" (sugar).  We did not call them "white man's flies" and we have old stories about honey bees.  I suppose it's possible to explain those stories as originally being about ants and adapted to bees... but I don't think so.
Title: Re: German Black Bees for sale in the US
Post by: little john on February 01, 2018, 02:45:14 pm
Scotland and England still have them.  It would be too far to get them though.  Beekeepers don't like those aggressive bees. 

Perfectly correct on all counts.  It's true that in mainland UK we still have some of their genes in the form of mongrels, but no-one in their right mind wants to keep AMM.  From a beekeeping perspective they have absolutely nothing going for them: small colonies returning poor honey yields and far too over-defensive.  Inspections are a nightmare - clouds of bees in your face, which then follow for a hundred yards or more long after the inspection is over.  Quite possibly the world's worst bee.
There are AMM enthusiasts in the extreme SW of England, and in Northern Scotland who are attempting to revive AMM stocks - but they're amateurs with an ecological agenda.  No commercial beekeeper or serious hobbyist would want to keep such bees.
LJ
Title: Re: German Black Bees for sale in the US
Post by: jvalentour on February 07, 2018, 10:58:44 pm
There is a guy in Mississippi selling Russians that are all black.  I'm pretty sure they are not "pure" Russians, but he belongs to the RHBBA.
I bought a few nucs from him last year. 
Some were aggressive, most were not.
Title: Re: German Black Bees for sale in the US
Post by: paus on March 19, 2018, 10:22:41 pm
I had one hive of black bees when I was a teenager They were MEAN and ugly.  You didn't make eye contact with them.  The "old timers" called them Native bees, but later I learned different.  Now I have a hive of black feral bees in a tree on my property.  I see them when I am feeding and have "Beelined" them to few large oak trees but never tried to find the exact location.  I caught two swarms in traps this week, the middle of March, one of them was about 200 yards from the trees and the other swarm is about a quarter mile from the black bees.  They have little hair and are shiny black and a little bit smaller than the "Italian bees I caught in the traps.  I would like to have one hive of the blacks for old time sake.
Title: Re: German Black Bees for sale in the US
Post by: beepro on March 20, 2018, 02:10:36 am
So how are their temperament?   Interesting that they are not mutt with the Italians already within the
same area.   Maybe one day you can pin point their location to propagate some if they are not the mean bees.
Title: Re: German Black Bees for sale in the US
Post by: Troutdog on April 25, 2018, 08:31:20 am
Scotland and England still have them.  It would be too far to get them though.  Beekeepers don't like those aggressive bees. 

Perfectly correct on all counts.  It's true that in mainland UK we still have some of their genes in the form of mongrels, but no-one in their right mind wants to keep AMM.  From a beekeeping perspective they have absolutely nothing going for them: small colonies returning poor honey yields and far too over-defensive.  Inspections are a nightmare - clouds of bees in your face, which then follow for a hundred yards or more long after the inspection is over.  Quite possibly the world's worst bee.
There are AMM enthusiasts in the extreme SW of England, and in Northern Scotland who are attempting to revive AMM stocks - but they're amateurs with an ecological agenda.  No commercial beekeeper or serious hobbyist would want to keep such bees.
LJ
BIBBA is the organization dedicated to restoring AMM in the uk.
These folks are hardly amatuers.
The genetics of AMM are well suited for UK.
Having worked these bees and knowing a lot of the breeders, I could not disagree more with your assessment.
Characteristics include
Short mating flights
Extreme build up for flow
High disease resistance
Hygienic
Frugal

One man I know in Ireland averages 200 lbs per hive in a 12 day period which is his only serious flow. He runs 400 hives.

Steve Rose is another Wales breeder. Might be one of the best in UK running 500 or so in the highlands, incredible breeder and genetically documented from university, is very successful.

F1 regression is a problem as with any bee especially Russians here in us.

Dont confuse bleep breeders with a bad genetic.

Sue Colby went to great lengths to acquire these genetics and are a big part of her new world carniolan stock.

Not sure where you get your Info but I can assure you the BIBBA people are as serious as it gets when it comes to breeding. And are quite successful.

Take a look at dave-cushman.net and search out their breeder selection record sheets. You might be surprised at a few things.

Cheers




Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

Title: Re: German Black Bees for sale in the US
Post by: van from Arkansas on November 18, 2019, 09:27:33 pm
>"American Indians called them white man's flies"

This always traces back to Thomas Jefferson.  I can't find any other source nor his source.  Lakota have real names (not made up names like European things) for honey bees, honey and beeswax.  One of our words for bee is "wichayazipa". Beeswax is "wichayazipa wigli" which means literally "bees fat". Bumble bee is Wichayazipa hinsma. Honey bee is "wichayazipa thunkce" which can also mean honey bee. That is as opposed to words like "wichayazipa zi" (yellow jacket) and "chanhanpi" (sugar).  We did not call them "white man's flies" and we have old stories about honey bees.  I suppose it's possible to explain those stories as originally being about ants and adapted to bees... but I don't think so.

Good info Bush.  How about Wapitaw, means literally white rump or Elk in English, Black Foot tribe, Montana.  I have been into the Sheep Caves North of Nez Perth, West Fork, Bitterroot Mountains.  No trails lead to these, steep rugged terrain.  No maps exists as they are considered very sacred, so I did not as much as pick up a rock.  I saw at least 4 four caves, there are many.  They are called Sheep Caves as the big horn sheep visit and leave track inside the caves.

Van
Title: Re: German Black Bees for sale in the US
Post by: Michael Bush on November 19, 2019, 07:28:00 am
I can't speak for Blackfoot.  In Lakota elk is Hehaka and that just means elk.  Nothing else.  True some descriptions make it into the name. Just like the name for Bumble bee which basically is a "fat bee".  But still "bee" is just it's name and doesn't mean anything else.  Often a name for one thing is applied with a description to another.  Such as Cetan which is hawk but a red tail is a Cetan Tanka (big hawk).  But the word for hawk is only a hawk, not a description of a what a hawk is.  The Tanka is a description of what kind of hawk.  The "made up" names are not like that.
Title: Re: German Black Bees for sale in the US
Post by: JojoBeeBoy on May 22, 2020, 08:35:09 am
I realize this is an old post, but I thought I would drop this in anyway. These German bees are still alive and well in the mountains of TN. I found a tree near my house about a month ago.

There is also a local beek who raises queens, probably from swarms he has caught in the woods. They are likely open-bred so the results (or at least the offspring) would be hybridized. Anyone interested can email me and I will send you his contact info.

Title: Re: German Black Bees for sale in the US
Post by: Ben Framed on May 22, 2020, 08:43:30 am
I realize this is an old post, but I thought I would drop this in anyway. These German bees are still alive and well in the mountains of TN. I found a tree near my house about a month ago.

There is also a local beek who raises queens, probably from swarms he has caught in the woods. They are likely open-bred so the results (or at least the offspring) would be hybridized. Anyone interested can email me and I will send you his contact info.

I mean no harm of offense, but I had just as soon  have Africanized bees. I have told the story here of when I was a boy my first experience with bees were  (what I believe to be) the black German bees. They came from a remote area of ArkbutlaLake. No thank you Mr JoJo. I hope no one I know anywhere around me brings in those mean creatures. No wild drones of that genetic line wanted anywhere close to mixing with my bees!
Title: Re: German Black Bees for sale in the US
Post by: AR Beekeeper on May 27, 2020, 04:49:10 pm
I am with you Ben, been there and done that. I have had them three different times and there is not enough money in Arkansas to get me to have them again.
Title: Re: German Black Bees for sale in the US
Post by: JojoBeeBoy on June 01, 2020, 11:01:36 pm
As I worked hives in shorts over the weekend I decided you guys are correct.

My Mom once bought a bunch of Holstein steers to remind us of our youth. Everyone rotated days bottle feeding the whole lot and we each ended up with 2-3. Mine were eventually moved to where we live now when they weighed 350 lbs or so.  I had a crew manufacturing and building log homes and more than once we had to round up cattle. I had one crazy steer who would break out and the others would follow. One day this wild one walked straight through a tight barbed wire fence mounted on metal posts. An hour later it was hanging in a tree being butchered.

Farming something you have to fight is not for me. Thanks for reminding me.