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MEMBER & GUEST INTERACTION SECTION => THE COFFEE HOUSE ((( SOCIAL - ROOM ))) => Topic started by: bwallace23350 on May 17, 2017, 11:04:11 am

Title: Trump is in Trouble
Post by: bwallace23350 on May 17, 2017, 11:04:11 am
Regardless of how you feel about Trump and what is going on he is in big trouble. He enemies are circling for the kill and he keeps hurting himself by not having a consistent story. At this rate it is only going to be a couple more instances he they will probably move in for impeachment. What does everyone else think?
Title: Re: Trump is in Trouble
Post by: gww on May 17, 2017, 11:32:02 am
I think he has a republican congress and a republican senate and though the news is all over it, it will probly take a lot more then what is going on now to impeach.  There might be some acts of distancing themselves by those that have mid term elections but impeachment is probly not in the cards.
Cheers
gww
Title: Re: Trump is in Trouble
Post by: Hops Brewster on May 17, 2017, 11:34:31 am
I think most people don't understand what "impeachment" means, and what it takes to accomplish it.  The Impeach Trump movement began the moment Election Day ended with absolutely zero grounds for it.  Impeachment is akin to a criminal indictment, and Trump is under no criminal investigation at this point in time.  It was easy fr the Republican majority to impeach Bill Clinton, for he was committing felonies and misdemeanors left and right, but Congress chose not to pursue prosecution to remove him from office, for they felt they might not have the few Democrat votes they needed to be successful.  Hillary was under criminal investigation during the campaign, and would have been a prime subject for impeachment if she had been elected. 

Now that there is an obstruction of justice allegation on Trump with possible evidence, it is up to Congress to investigate, and Caffetz is calling for such.  but it is still a long, hard road to impeachment, and difficult to prosecute if it is found impeachment is warranted, especially considering that it is a Republican Congress that you expect to impeach a Republican President.

You can't impeach a President just because you hate him.  There has to be grounds ie; "High Crimes or Misdemeanors".
Title: Re: Trump is in Trouble
Post by: bwallace23350 on May 17, 2017, 11:49:11 am
I think most people don't understand what "impeachment" means, and what it takes to accomplish it.  The Impeach Trump movement began the moment Election Day ended with absolutely zero grounds for it.  Impeachment is akin to a criminal indictment, and Trump is under no criminal investigation at this point in time.  It was easy fr the Republican majority to impeach Bill Clinton, for he was committing felonies and misdemeanors left and right, but Congress chose not to pursue prosecution to remove him from office, for they felt they might not have the few Democrat votes they needed to be successful.  Hillary was under criminal investigation during the campaign, and would have been a prime subject for impeachment if she had been elected. 

Now that there is an obstruction of justice allegation on Trump with possible evidence, it is up to Congress to investigate, and Caffetz is calling for such.  but it is still a long, hard road to impeachment, and difficult to prosecute if it is found impeachment is warranted, especially considering that it is a Republican Congress that you expect to impeach a Republican President.

You can't impeach a President just because you hate him.  There has to be grounds ie; "High Crimes or Misdemeanors".

I fully understand what impeachment is and entails but it seems they are moving towards this fast and I am starting to feel that his republican allies will start to desert him soon
Title: Re: Trump is in Trouble
Post by: herbhome on May 17, 2017, 02:40:30 pm
Hops,

They did indeed have impeachment proceedings against Clinton for perjury before a grand jury investigation. In the end the vote fell along party lines and he was exonerated.
You are right, Trump has to commit a crime and although the constitution says high crimes and misdemeanors I really doubt any Congress would impeach him for traffic tickets. All those protestors calling for impeachment the week after the election didn't understand how are system works. Many countries allow a vote of "no confidence". I often think it wouldn't be such a bad thing here.
Title: Re: Trump is in Trouble
Post by: Hops Brewster on May 17, 2017, 08:13:24 pm
Hops,

They did indeed have impeachment proceedings against Clinton for perjury before a grand jury investigation. In the end the vote fell along party lines and he was exonerated.
You are right, Trump has to commit a crime and although the constitution says high crimes and misdemeanors I reall doubt any Congress would impeach him for traffic tickets. All those protestors calling for impeachment the week after the election didn't understand how are system works. Many countries allow a vote of "no confidence". I often think it wouldn't be such a bad thing here.
Sorry Herb, you're wrong on this one.  Bill Clinton was impeached by the House of Representatives on two charges, one of perjury and one of obstruction of justice, on December 19, 1998.  Subsequently he was also  disbarred and lost his license to practice law.  Doesn't sound anything like exoneration to me.  Senate refused to prosecute to remove that turd from office.
Title: Re: Trump is in Trouble
Post by: herbhome on May 17, 2017, 08:28:41 pm
Hops,

I apologize for the misunderstanding. He was disbarred but he stayed in office. That's what I meant. The disbarment was irrelevant to him-he was never going to practice law again.
Title: Re: Trump is in Trouble
Post by: Acebird on May 17, 2017, 09:10:17 pm
but it is still a long, hard road to impeachment, and difficult to prosecute if it is found impeachment is warranted, especially considering that it is a Republican Congress that you expect to impeach a Republican President.

The balance can change in less then a couple of years and then he is a dead duck.  People don't like getting fooled and lied to.  He is not dead yet But his presidency is because the lies are surfacing and the fake news label didn't work.
Title: Re: Trump is in Trouble
Post by: sawdstmakr on May 17, 2017, 09:19:58 pm
The only reason he might be in trouble is we have a totall biased media that is against him and congress does not want to give back all the power and money they have taken from us.
Title: Re: Trump is in Trouble
Post by: bwallace23350 on May 18, 2017, 09:18:41 am
The only reason he might be in trouble is we have a totall biased media that is against him and congress does not want to give back all the power and money they have taken from us.

Our media is very horrible. No one can argue that. They have had it out for him for a year now it seems.

On another note Justin Amash has now called for Trumps impeachment.
Title: Re: Trump is in Trouble
Post by: Acebird on May 18, 2017, 09:40:12 am
Must be fake news ... Ha, ha ha ha ha
Title: Re: Trump is in Trouble
Post by: Hops Brewster on May 18, 2017, 11:17:30 am
but it is still a long, hard road to impeachment, and difficult to prosecute if it is found impeachment is warranted, especially considering that it is a Republican Congress that you expect to impeach a Republican President.

The balance can change in less then a couple of years and then he is a dead duck.  People don't like getting fooled and lied to.  He is not dead yet But his presidency is because the lies are surfacing and the fake news label didn't work.
Yet the people thoroughly enjoyed getting fooled and lied to during the Clinton years.  They reveled in his scandals, hedonism and crimes for 8 years and longer.  It didn't matter to them that he was under one criminal investigation after another, for he was charismatic and didn't mind young girls asking him about his underwear.  He was impeached and disgraced, but didn't have the morals of a monkey, so disgrace to himself and his wife and his family name became fashionable in Demoratic circles.
Title: Re: Trump is in Trouble
Post by: sawdstmakr on May 18, 2017, 01:28:09 pm
but it is still a long, hard road to impeachment, and difficult to prosecute if it is found impeachment is warranted, especially considering that it is a Republican Congress that you expect to impeach a Republican President.

The balance can change in less then a couple of years and then he is a dead duck.  People don't like getting fooled and lied to.  He is not dead yet But his presidency is because the lies are surfacing and the fake news label didn't work.
Yet the people thoroughly enjoyed getting fooled and lied to during the Clinton years.  They reveled in his scandals, hedonism and crimes for 8 years and longer.  It didn't matter to them that he was under one criminal investigation after another, for he was charismatic and didn't mind young girls asking him about his underwear.  He was impeached and disgraced, but didn't have the morals of a monkey, so disgrace to himself and his wife and his family name became fashionable in Democratic circles.
And the media had/has the morals as he has so it all was OK. Those same morals allow them to make "False News" and it is OK.
Jim
Title: Re: Trump is in Trouble
Post by: Acebird on May 18, 2017, 01:58:09 pm


Actually Hops I see no difference at all between a republican and a democrat politician.   The only difference is They chose different groups of people to sucker their vote.  Neither has any morals when it comes to attracting a vote.  But when it comes to the person or the competence of the person to hold the presidents position I have seen more past presidents being democrat.  From Kennedy to now the only republican that I thought was fully competent was the older Bush.  Reagan had Nancy to shore him up so he accomplished some good.  Jimmy Carter was my hero.  Probably the only president we had in the stretch that was for the people and country but he did lack the competence to get the job done in the White House.  He accomplished so much more when he got out.
Title: Re: Trump is in Trouble
Post by: bwallace23350 on May 18, 2017, 05:36:22 pm
I have very little trust in our government and have no love for either party. I almost at times wish we had something like the British House of Lords when it functioned and had powers complete with a hereditary aristocrats whose wealth and power was based on the land. In that case they are tied to the area and their fortunes rise and fall with how the country and locality is doing.
Title: Re: Trump is in Trouble
Post by: Hops Brewster on May 18, 2017, 10:38:28 pm
I see D and R as the 2 smelly ends of the same filthy stick.  But I am most repulsed by the D end.  That end of the stick is buried in pig offal, while the other end is merely used to stir the bull manure.
IMO, The Demorats  believe the government are the Rulers, Republicans believe that the government are the Leaders, and the libertarians believe that the government are our Servants.
Title: Re: Trump is in Trouble
Post by: Acebird on May 19, 2017, 09:24:35 am
I think everyone believes what they want to believe regardless of what they are labeled.
BTW the lies are mounting up.  18 more undocumented contacts with the Russians during the elections while the Russians were attacking our elections.  This time the vice president was recorded by video.
They think Obama Care is going to implode?  I thing the White House is going to implode.
Title: Re: Trump is in Trouble
Post by: Hops Brewster on May 19, 2017, 11:54:48 am
Lies... just goes to show that he's not much better in that regard than any other politician before him.  For what is Business, but a form of Politics?
Title: Re: Trump is in Trouble
Post by: bwallace23350 on May 19, 2017, 11:58:20 am
Obamacare does seem to be imploding but it is better than the republican alternative. I almost think that it was designed to fail though.

I don't really care how much other administrations do this stuff if Trump gets caught I hope he gets punished. It is high time we started prosecuting our nations greatest criminals/politicians.
Title: Re: Trump is in Trouble
Post by: kathyp on May 19, 2017, 12:02:04 pm
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You can't impeach a President just because you hate him.  There has to be grounds ie; "High Crimes or Misdemeanors".

yes

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Sorry Herb, you're wrong on this one.  Bill Clinton was impeached by the House of Representatives on two charges, one of perjury and one of obstruction of justice, on December 19, 1998.  Subsequently he was also  disbarred and lost his license to practice law.  Doesn't sound anything like exoneration to me.  Senate refused to prosecute to remove that turd from office.

yup   :cheesy:

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People don't like getting fooled and lied to.

Seriously??  "if you like your doctor you can keep him/her"  "if you like your plan....."  "it's going to save you money...."
And the best one that most people forget "it's not a tax!!"  except that the reason it made it through the SCOTUS is that the presidents lawyer argued that it WAS a tax and congress had the right to tax....even if they didn't have the right to demand you buy a certain product. 

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On another note Justin Amash has now called for Trumps impeachmen

He said it could happen, but he needs to go back and look at the laws.

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BTW the lies are mounting up.  18 more undocumented contacts with the Russians during the elections while the Russians were attacking our elections.  This time the vice president was recorded by video.

incoming admins talk to lots of foreign leaders and ambassadors.  they always have.  There is nothing illegal about it.  It is expected. 

What is not expected is something like this yet I bet most don't remember this...can you guess why?

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2015/03/how-barack-obama-undercut-bush-administrations-nuclear-negotiations-with-iran.php



Title: Re: Trump is in Trouble
Post by: kathyp on May 19, 2017, 12:03:38 pm
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Obamacare does seem to be imploding but it is better than the republican alternative. I almost think that it was designed to fail though.

in what way is Obamacare better?
Title: Re: Trump is in Trouble
Post by: Acebird on May 19, 2017, 02:38:47 pm
You didn't hear Kathy?  The orange turd admitted (on camera) that Australia has a better health care system then we do.  They have universal healthcare.  What a moron he is.
Title: Re: Trump is in Trouble
Post by: beecanbee on May 20, 2017, 05:27:03 am
While not in the US insurance system, I have had a keen interest in the ACA and the subsequent political events and discussions on health care.
It seems to me that the ACA created an environment that was way too complicated and that IF a national healthcare insurance system is to be successful, it needs to be truly national - meaning the same insurance (rates, options, coverage extent, etc.) across states, counties, etc., and of course single-payer. If a truly national single-payer system were implemented the insurance companies would be relegated to selling top-up policies to cover co-pays and whatever the national system might not cover (for example, hot springs treatment, single patient rooms, etc.).

I am following conversations in cancer forums in the US and UK, and the hoops US citizens must jump thru seem onerous in comparison to the UK, and what I have here in Japan.

Of course there is a cost ? since nothing is free, but in the US that cost is simply paid to the insurance companies, paid into the medical industry thru higher (non-negotiated) costs, or bourn thru suffering by those who are ill and unable to obtain care appropriate to their illness as determined by their physician.  It seems to me that the real issue in the US is whether one believes that having a healthy populous is important or not as a government priority ? and at a level comparable to military security, infrastructure, the rule of law, education, the economy, etc.
Title: Re: Trump is in Trouble
Post by: Acebird on May 20, 2017, 09:24:58 am
It seems to me that the ACA created an environment that was way too complicated and that IF a national healthcare insurance system is to be successful, it needs to be truly national - meaning the same insurance (rates, options, coverage extent, etc.) across states, counties, etc., and of course single-payer. If a truly national single-payer system were implemented the insurance companies would be relegated to selling top-up policies to cover co-pays and whatever the national system might not cover (for example, hot springs treatment, single patient rooms, etc.).

If you regulate private enterprise to this degree it is not private anymore and most importantly it will create such a bureaucracy that it will cost 10 fold what it needs to cost.  The simple solution is to fund it through the government.  Treat it like SS or the military.  Insurance companies will have to compete for premium policies for the well to do instead of ripping off the middle and lower classes.
Unfortunately all governments are run and represented by the well to do so they already have that bias.  It is obvious the bias is there because you can see it in their health care system, their system of pay raises, and their retirement.
Title: Re: Trump is in Trouble
Post by: beecanbee on May 20, 2017, 10:35:20 am
The interstate highway system isn`t free enterprise, but it could be - with lots of toll booths.  The social security system isn`t free enterprise, but it could be - with lots more both good & bad investment opportunities.  The US military isn`t free enterprise, but it could be - with major corporations fronting their own protection forces, etc.

I don`t see any increase in costs - but rather a reduction, since economies of scale come to bear if all of those insurance adjusters are gone, since the system essentially becomes rules based - with doctors and hospitals making treatment decisions based only upon the patient needs and getting reimbursed based upon a database of services and payments.

And yes - the very rich can choose to not use the system and find a private service, but with 100% of the population insured, the health of the population is indeed improved since care starts earlier where it counts more.
Title: Re: Trump is in Trouble
Post by: bwallace23350 on May 20, 2017, 01:06:28 pm
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Obamacare does seem to be imploding but it is better than the republican alternative. I almost think that it was designed to fail though.

in what way is Obamacare better?

In that it expanded coverage and leveled out the cost of healthcare across the board. Under the current plan beign proposed people will lose health care and costs will not come down.
Title: Re: Trump is in Trouble
Post by: kathyp on May 20, 2017, 01:48:52 pm
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In that it expanded coverage and leveled out the cost of healthcare across the board.

It expanded Medicaid (welfare) but it did not level out cost.  Those of us who pay for our insurance are paying far more.  People who bought on the exchanges even with subsidies are finding that their deductible makes their insurance useless.  Basically, it accomplished two things: expanding the welfare state, and giving people fewer choices in insurance, thus fewer choices in care. 
Title: Re: Trump is in Trouble
Post by: Acebird on May 20, 2017, 06:31:46 pm
and giving people fewer choices in insurance, thus fewer choices in care.

Prior to ACA most people had only one choice, what their employer chose and the deductibles were rising at an alarming rate.  That game was already in the works.  People who lost their job (remember that?) had no insurance because cobra is not affordable to someone that lost their job yet that is what it was for.  Now the choices in care are still here they are only affordable to the well to do similar to before except prior to ACA companies signed on to HMO and network care.  So if you were traveling you were screwed, out of the network and you didn't have the choice of the doctor you always went to unless he was in the network.  Most likely your doctor was not in the network because these networks are mostly young foreign doctors straight out of medical school.  So I am at a loss as to why you say there was more choices then, then now.
Title: Re: Trump is in Trouble
Post by: kathyp on May 20, 2017, 07:53:30 pm
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So I am at a loss as to why you say there was more choices then, then now.

A lot of people got dumped onto the exchanges.  They lost their work insurance or they were told that what they had and liked did not meet requirements of ACA.  Those people were left with the exchanges.  More and more insurance companies are dropping out.  Less choice.  Deductibles are much higher now than before ACA especially on the exchange policies.  Some as high as 10,000 dollars for the lower end plans that people can afford. Since they have less choice of insurers, there is no hope of finding something better.  In addition, we still have millions uninsured, many by choice because of the cost of the policies.   

You still have the problem of being out of network...although most policies cover you anywhere for emergencies. 

And again, insurance is not what I defend.  Insurance is a lousy way to pay for most medical care.  Choice is what I defend whether you choose to use your insurance for the common cold or chose to pay cash, or want a policy that only covers big stuff...or whatever.  What I don't want is the federal government messing in health care in any way except to legislate that they mess less. 
Get rid of the mandates and regulations and let people buy what they want, where they want, or nothing if that's what the want.

Do you realize we could have given everyone who was uninsured a million dollars for a HSA, heck, everyone in the country, and spent far less than this mess has cost?
Title: Re: Trump is in Trouble
Post by: gww on May 20, 2017, 11:44:09 pm
Kathy
Quote
Do you realize we could have given everyone who was uninsured a million dollars for a HSA, heck, everyone in the country, and spent far less than this mess has cost?

It was reported on the news that if we got rid of health care insurance providers it would save four hundred billion "per year".  How much would that be per person in america and not just the uninsured ones?
Cheers
gww
Title: Re: Trump is in Trouble
Post by: Acebird on May 21, 2017, 09:45:10 am
Get rid of the mandates and regulations and let people buy what they want, where they want, or nothing if that's what the want.

The choices are not available to all because the choices are based on a profit margin.  These choices you speak of will never be available to all if it involves profit.  Clearly you can see that.  If you only care about yourself and how the economics works out for you then it is clear why you want a profit based healthcare system.  Quite frankly that is what is wrong with the swamp they only care about themselves even though their job is to represent us.
Title: Re: Trump is in Trouble
Post by: Acebird on May 21, 2017, 09:51:58 am
It was reported on the news that if we got rid of health care insurance providers it would save four hundred billion "per year".

This is one of the reasons Wall Street'ers are so fat.  Insurance companies are really banks, but worse, you put in money and they give you half of it back.
Title: Re: Trump is in Trouble
Post by: Captain776 on May 21, 2017, 10:03:28 am
The NHL ones going to be hurt in this Special Prosecutor deal is all the dirty Democrats.
Every issue that has ever arisen, Trump has come out on top, this will be no different.

Have any of you seen one bit of indisputable evidence against Trump? Go ahead, I'll wait.

Comey said he wrote a Memo in Zfeb that Trump asked him to go easy on Flynn but May 3 while under oath, swore no one ne ever asked him to stop, slow down or alter an investigation.when you lie, you have a lot to remember.

Truth is, Comey wrote the memo the day AFTER he got fired for gross incompetence.
There IS documented evidence that both Comey and his brother are solely owned by Clintons.

Now they can request ALL Comeys Memos......Rice, Lynch, Obama, Hillary alllllllll the memos.
Democrats will learn.......be careful what you ask for.

Beyond my comprehension why Trump hasn't arrested Hillary, declare her a flight risk and hold her, no bail. Then open the Pizzagate Pedophile case, that will take at least 75 deep state backstabbers off the street and focus attention elsewhere

Basic.......fight fire with fire
Title: Re: Trump is in Trouble
Post by: iddee on May 21, 2017, 06:13:56 pm

Quoted by ace.   "You didn't hear Kathy?  The orange turd admitted (on camera) that Australia has a better health care system then we do.  They have universal healthcare.  What a moron he is."

Now, intelligent one, please tell us when Australia got ACA?  That was what was being compared, not OZ's.
Title: Re: Trump is in Trouble
Post by: kathyp on May 21, 2017, 07:27:46 pm
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It was reported on the news that if we got rid of health care insurance providers it would save four hundred billion "per year".  How much would that be per person in america and not just the uninsured ones?

It was also reported the ACA was going to insure everyone, drive down cost, and save everyone over 2000 dollars per year.

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Quote
This is one of the reasons Wall Street'ers are so fat.  Insurance companies are really banks, but worse, you put in money and they give you half of it back.

All insurance is like this.  how many dollars have you spent over your lifetime on car insurance?  Will you ever get that back no matter how badly you wreck your car?  They only way you might get ahead on that is if there is a liability claim against you which means you hurt of killed someone. 

insurance is a bet.  They bet you won't need it but charge according to what you might need by age and health.  You buy it betting that you will need it at some point and having it is better than not having it.

 I am not a fan of insurance because of the way people use it, but the problem is not with the existence of insurance.  It is the way we get it.
Most people are insured by way of work, or by welfare programs.  Even those who self-insure must buy what the state mandates, or now, what ACA mandates.  There is no free market in the insurance market.   Imagine that all those restrictions were lifted and you could buy what you wanted from anyone.  All companies in the country would have to compete for your business.  If you didn't like what you had, you'd be free to shop around for something else anywhere else.  Maximum choice in who and how you insure, if you choose to even buy insurance.

You would still have to make allowances for the truely poor, but there are various ways to do that from insurance pools that charged based on what you could pay, to the good old charity hospitals that have gone by the wayside mostly because if things like malpractice insurance.  Would we be paying for needless ER visits?  Yes.  We are now.  ACA did not fix that.  It is also far less expensive to absorb that cost that to absorb ACA cost. 

There are fixes...and those include turning medical care over to the government.   You know if they are in charge of paying for it, they will not pass up the chance to regulate it and mess with it.

Read this carefully
http://www.commonwealthfund.org/grants-and-fellowships/fellowships/australian-american-health-policy-fellowship/health-care-system-and-health-policy-in-australia

Title: Re: Trump is in Trouble
Post by: Geoff on May 21, 2017, 07:53:50 pm


    Great analogy Kathy, insurance is a bet with the odds in favor of the bookmaker. The Australian health cover is great, the only downside is waiting time. My recent hip job was only a five month wait and done by an excellent young surgeon ( done Friday afternoon and home for lunch on Monday) with marvelous after care by the physio- therapists. When one reads the contents of this thread it is the reason we must take out travel insurance when we travel overseas, especially to the US. The only out of pocket expenses I incurred for my job was a $ 40  consultation with the surgeon $7 each time for hot pool therapy.
Title: Re: Trump is in Trouble
Post by: Acebird on May 21, 2017, 08:42:44 pm
Read this carefully
http://www.commonwealthfund.org/grants-and-fellowships/fellowships/australian-american-health-policy-fellowship/health-care-system-and-health-policy-in-australia

I read it what is your beef?  I like the last paragraph about personal e-file records.  I think it is absolutely stupid to think a person can memorize their health care history and fill out paper forms.
Title: Re: Trump is in Trouble
Post by: Acebird on May 21, 2017, 08:46:18 pm
please tell us when Australia got ACA?  That was what was being compared, not OZ's.

The ACA is a step to what they have and a huge step in the opposite direction to what the orange turd is pushing for.
Title: Re: Trump is in Trouble
Post by: bwallace23350 on May 22, 2017, 10:02:04 am
Cost was leveled out in the fact that women now don't pay more for health insurance just because they are women. We leveled that cost off. Health insurance was going through the roof anyway and we were already on an unsustainable path. Glad you brought up medicaid and medicare. We should just expand those programs to cover everyone and have it come a long with a tax increase that will probably be less than what you were paying for insurance anyway so you will be taking home more money.
Title: Re: Trump is in Trouble
Post by: kathyp on May 22, 2017, 04:01:53 pm
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Great analogy Kathy, insurance is a bet with the odds in favor of the bookmaker. The Australian health cover is great, the only downside is waiting time.

and I am happy that you are happy with it.  If we were to institute the same immigration, refugee, and welfare policies you guys have, I might be willing to take a second look.  As long as we are the worlds dumping ground and have people marching in the streets for open borders, I'm not willing to pay for that cost on top of the cost of all the people in this country that don't pay taxes AND and aging (of which I am one) population.

Title: Re: Trump is in Trouble
Post by: kathyp on May 22, 2017, 04:06:21 pm
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Cost was leveled out in the fact that women now don't pay more for health insurance just because they are women.

Not just because they are women.  Because women use more and more varied service.  I now pay MORE than I did before, BTW.  Older people use more.  Sick people use more.  Yet for some reason people think it unfair that those who use more, should not pay more. 

did you read the article on Medicaid outcomes from my state? 

Another question.  If we have private/public healthcare, will you force doctors and hospitals to see people on the public plans? 
Title: Re: Trump is in Trouble
Post by: kathyp on May 22, 2017, 04:07:40 pm
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I read it what is your beef?

did it not strike you as odd that they made a point of saying they were encouraging more private insurance and care?  Why?
Title: Re: Trump is in Trouble
Post by: Acebird on May 22, 2017, 06:00:11 pm
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I read it what is your beef?

did it not strike you as odd that they made a point of saying they were encouraging more private insurance and care?  Why?

Didn't see it.  Breezed through it again, still didn't see it.
There is nothing wrong with private insurance and care if you want it.  I am sure it will always be available.  You can get secondary insurance for most plans now if you are healthy.  There are many areas of the country that can support both but then there are many areas of the country that cannot support private care because the population is not big enough or wealthy enough.
Title: Re: Trump is in Trouble
Post by: Acebird on May 22, 2017, 06:07:35 pm
Yet for some reason people think it unfair that those who use more, should not pay more. 

Just curious what your opinion is on pay scale for men and women.  Should it be the same or should it be base on productivity?
Title: Re: Trump is in Trouble
Post by: kathyp on May 22, 2017, 06:19:30 pm
Since 1996, there have been incentives to encourage the purchase of insurance, often described as ?carrots and sticks?. The carrots comprise a 30% rebate on private insurance premiums, effectively reducing the cost. The sticks are an income tax surcharge for higher income earners without private cover. Since 2000, there has been a financial incentive to purchase insurance by the age of 30 and to stay with cover. This is Lifetime Health Cover, an age-related premium based on the number of years after 30 without private insurance.

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Just curious what your opinion is on pay scale for men and women.  Should it be the same or should it be base on productivity?

If all things are equal, then yes pay should be equal regardless of the person in the job.  The problem with the calculations used to say women earn less is that they do not take into account the equality part.  Wome tend to take more time off, take lower paying jobs for the sake of time with family.  They take breaks from work for kids and so have less job experience.  What these = pay people really want is for women to be paid the same no matter the choices they make. 

here is a real life example.  Where my husband works they have hired a bunch of young women early in their careers.  Of course their starting pay is lower even though they do the same job.  They also call in fairly often with sick kids, child care issues, or they get pregnant and are gone for 6 months.  one of them has been allowed to come in late because her child care is not available early enough. 

The guys pick up the slack.  Should the women be paid the same as the men when they are usually not doing the same amount of work?  If they gain seniority and are paid more, should consideration be made in their pay for the fact that they miss work or are late? 

Also, in the same workplace there are women who have chosen to work fewer days, or are job sharing.  In the calculation of "women don't get paid as much for the same job" it's true, these women are not being paid as much for the same job.  They ARE being paid the same for the work they do, and the amount of experience they have in spite of the fact the take time off, call in sick, and come in late.
Title: Re: Trump is in Trouble
Post by: Acebird on May 23, 2017, 08:42:59 am
Since 1996, there have been incentives to encourage the purchase of insurance, often described as ?carrots and sticks?. The carrots comprise a 30% rebate on private insurance premiums, effectively reducing the cost. The sticks are an income tax surcharge for higher income earners without private cover. Since 2000, there has been a financial incentive to purchase insurance by the age of 30 and to stay with cover. This is Lifetime Health Cover, an age-related premium based on the number of years after 30 without private insurance.
To me this appears like politics not something that is required.  If you are going to levy a tax based on income why would insurance companies be involved?  How does an insurance policy make that a better choice for healthcare.

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They ARE being paid the same for the work they do, and the amount of experience they have in spite of the fact the take time off, call in sick, and come in late.

It is easier to balance the scale if the employee is hourly or on piece work.  However any interruption is a loss in productivity.  When it comes to management positions it is not so easy to balance the scale because in most cases if the manager is gone or in and out the department turns to chaos which results in a huge loss of production.  Some jobs can tolerate missing employees and some jobs can't.  It makes no difference whether you are male or female but as you have sited generally females have more work interruptions then males.
Title: Re: Trump is in Trouble
Post by: kathyp on May 23, 2017, 12:22:01 pm
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To me this appears like politics not something that is required.

Yes, for the most part, although it looks like there is some kind of tax penalty for those in higher income brackets that don't.  My question is why?
If you have a program that covers everyone, why do you need to encourage people to buy insurance? I get it if it's stuff that's not covered by the state program, but what would be the other reasons? 
Title: Re: Trump is in Trouble
Post by: Hops Brewster on May 23, 2017, 08:31:24 pm
https://mises.org/blog/how-government-regulations-made-healthcare-so-expensive
Title: Re: Trump is in Trouble
Post by: Acebird on May 24, 2017, 09:35:07 am
I get it if it's stuff that's not covered by the state program, but what would be the other reasons?

Pressure from the insurance companies.  Same thing that mucks up all government programs, the takers.
Title: Re: Trump is in Trouble
Post by: Captain776 on May 24, 2017, 09:41:37 am
It is amazing to me........the Russian collusion conspiracy is falling apart by the day because of no evidence or proof, Comey said he didn't do it, CIA said there is no evidence but the Special Prosecution is continuing, but on the other side, there is indisputable proof Hillary and Buckwheat broke NUMEROUS LAWS and not one word about it
Title: Re: Trump is in Trouble
Post by: sawdstmakr on May 24, 2017, 12:55:51 pm
It is amazing to me........the Russian collusion conspiracy is falling apart by the day because of no evidence or proof, Comey said he didn't do it, CIA said there is no evidence but the Special Prosecution is continuing, but on the other side, there is indisputable proof Hillary and Buckwheat broke NUMEROUS LAWS and not one word about it
I agree but not when you consider the extreme bias of our media. if it was the other way around, it would be the exact opposite.
Jim
Title: Re: Trump is in Trouble
Post by: beecanbee on May 25, 2017, 04:27:27 am
It is amazing to me........the Russian collusion conspiracy is falling apart by the day because of no evidence or proof, Comey said he didn't do it, CIA said there is no evidence but the Special Prosecution is continuing, ...

It may not matter much, but I find it quite surprising that a statement which was debunked as `mostly false` by PolitiFact some time ago still gets used.  If people from both sides of the political divide are ever to come together, objectively demonstrable facts need to be recognized as such, and the false news and inaccurate political quips, similarly acknowledged for what they are.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2017/may/12/donald-trump/trumps-mostly-false-claim-clapper-said-no-collusio/
Title: Re: Trump is in Trouble
Post by: gww on May 25, 2017, 03:23:55 pm
beecanbee
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It may not matter much, but I find it quite surprising that a statement which was debunked as `mostly false` by PolitiFact some time ago still gets used.  If people from both sides of the political divide are ever to come together, objectively demonstrable facts need to be recognized as such, and the false news and inaccurate political quips, similarly acknowledged for what they are.

Thumbs up.
gww
Title: Re: Trump is in Trouble
Post by: RogerK on May 27, 2017, 11:22:51 pm
We have to follow the rule of law and the process of investigation, but it sure seems there is plenty cover ups, obstruction, and way too much smoke to not have a fire. Apparently he was elected because "government doesn't work", and it needed to be torn inside out. Well, I guess it is, in plain view. Personally, I think the slow, methodical, and even strained and polarized atmosphere is better than tearing it down. Think about the EPA for instance, and the guidelines to keep pollutants out of the water, air, and land. Surly this is what the pollinators need. But Pruit seems on a mission of destruction. We do all benefit for a functioning federal government in many ways, so we need a structure, trust, and good representation in a fool proof system with the checks and balances we are now seeing.
Title: Re: Trump is in Trouble
Post by: kathyp on May 28, 2017, 11:00:39 pm
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We have to follow the rule of law and the process of investigation, but it sure seems there is plenty cover ups, obstruction, and way too much smoke to not have a fire.

But where does the "smoke" come from?  It comes from the press and their anonymous sources.  Those things we do know about are perfectly within the law and done by every incoming admin. 

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Think about the EPA for instance, and the guidelines to keep pollutants out of the water, air, and land. Surly this is what the pollinators need. But Pruit seems on a mission of destruction.

The EPA has massively overstepped any bounds ever considered for them.  Even if you think some of what they have done is necessary, and it may be, it does not follow that they should have free rein to do as they please. A great deal of what they have done over the last few years has to do with "climate change" and some of what they have done, like trying to take control of all water, no one knows why they do it.

What you get with most of the alphabet agencies are unelected and unaccountable, except to whatever admin is in, law making agencies. Making laws belongs to Congress.   Calling something a regulation when it is, in fact, a new law, is not something a government agency has the legal power to do.  And yes, Congress is largely at fault in this because they fund these agencies and they do not push back when the agencies overstep. 

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We do all benefit for a functioning federal government in many ways, so we need a structure, trust, and good representation in a fool proof system with the checks and balances we are now seeing.

We need structure and good representation.  We should not trust.  one of the reasons our government is set up the way it is, is because our founders did not trust the government to always have the best interest of the people.  There is no fool proof system and I'd be interested in your interpretation of check and balances?  If you mean the press that was literally in tears when Hillary lost, I don't see them as much of a check or balance. 
Title: Re: Trump is in Trouble
Post by: Acebird on May 29, 2017, 09:29:01 am
If you mean the press that was literally in tears when Hillary lost, I don't see them as much of a check or balance.

Without the press all our guns would be confiscated and we would be a police state like Russia.
What is important about the press is not so much what they say anymore it is more about what they show.  It wouldn't surprise me one bit if Melania voted for Hillary.  It is obvious she can't stand the turd.  People rely a lot on social media but this can be turned off.  What can't be turned off is the press because it operates outside our boarders.
Title: Re: Trump is in Trouble
Post by: kathyp on May 29, 2017, 06:58:33 pm
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Without the press all our guns would be confiscated and we would be a police state like Russia.

I am not exactly sure what you are saying here. 

No one suggests we should be without the press, but it has shown itself to be very unreliable especially lately.  Most totalitarian countries have a press, but it can't be trusted to be truthful.  At this point, we are no better off.  The majority of our press is practicing advocacy rather than reporting.

Your comment about Melania is an example of you getting your info from that unreliable press that puts what it want you to believe in front of you, and you bite like a trout on a fly.    :wink:
Title: Re: Trump is in Trouble
Post by: Acebird on May 30, 2017, 08:33:33 am
[Your comment about Melania is an example of you getting your info from that unreliable press that puts what it want you to believe in front of you, and you bite like a trout on a fly.    :wink:

The videos are clips that are not doctored.  If they were the sue happy turd would go after the press and win.  No one is putting words in his mouth most would like to break his phone so he can't tweet.  It doesn't take a master's degree in psychology to read the faces on the people around him.  The US presidency is very high profile.  It is only natural that the world would pay so much attention to an incompetent buffoon in that position.  The ones who bit like a trout on a fly are the ones who voted for him. :wink:  We will see if they can recognize their mistake in 2018 and whether he even makes it to 2020.
Title: Re: Trump is in Trouble
Post by: jvalentour on May 31, 2017, 12:51:06 am
boarders

Brian,
Learn to spell borders.
You're a dumb POS.
Bad public education I bet.
Title: Re: Trump is in Trouble
Post by: jvalentour on May 31, 2017, 12:55:01 am
boarders
noun
1.
a person, especially a lodger, who is supplied with regular meals.

Makes you look more stupid than you may be.  Not sure how stupid you are, just sayin'


Title: Re: Trump is in Trouble
Post by: Acebird on May 31, 2017, 09:24:41 am
English is my second language.  Phonics is my first.  Most people can do the translations.  Those that can't I don't worry about.