Beemaster's International Beekeeping Forum

ALMOST BEEKEEPING - RELATED TOPICS => OUTDOOR ACTIVITIES FORUM => Topic started by: Keith13 on November 01, 2010, 04:18:42 pm

Title: Timber rattlers
Post by: Keith13 on November 01, 2010, 04:18:42 pm
Went out to walk the property this week to grab my cameras, came across 4 different rattlesnakes. I have never seen a rattlesnake in the wild on my place until this year. Earlier this year i killed a 5 footer i happened to have a brush blade with me. Yesterday I didn't have anything with me so they all are still out there. Two years ago we stopped farming the land and now they seem to be exploding in all this tall grass. Seems the website list them as a threated species, not in my neck of the woods.

Keith
Title: Re: Timber rattlers
Post by: AllenF on November 01, 2010, 04:53:34 pm
Sounds like the fields are ready to burn.   
Title: Re: Timber rattlers
Post by: Bee Happy on November 01, 2010, 05:03:30 pm
Went out to walk the property this week to grab my cameras, came across 4 different rattlesnakes. I have never seen a rattlesnake in the wild on my place until this year. Earlier this year i killed a 5 footer i happened to have a brush blade with me. Yesterday I didn't have anything with me so they all are still out there. Two years ago we stopped farming the land and now they seem to be exploding in all this tall grass. Seems the website list them as a threated species, not in my neck of the woods.

Keith

maybe you can have them relocated  :evil: I guess you just have to find some people who are in strong support of them and see if they'll let them put a few on their property.  ;)
Title: Re: Timber rattlers
Post by: AllenF on November 01, 2010, 07:41:15 pm
Went out to walk the property this week to grab my cameras, came across 4 different rattlesnakes. I have never seen a rattlesnake in the wild on my place until this year. Earlier this year i killed a 5 footer i happened to have a brush blade with me. Yesterday I didn't have anything with me so they all are still out there. Two years ago we stopped farming the land and now they seem to be exploding in all this tall grass. Seems the website list them as a threated species, not in my neck of the woods.

Keith

maybe you can have them relocated  :evil: I guess you just have to find some people who are in strong support of them and see if they'll let them put a few on their property.  ;)

Certain city parks, PETA meetings, and a few left leaning polling places tomorrow come to mind.
Title: Re: Timber rattlers
Post by: JP on November 01, 2010, 08:29:10 pm
Schawee and I are scheduled to do a removal on Wednesday, may not go through now because of the weather, but anyway, the guy I'm removing the bees for killed a Timber rattler right across the street.

He's in Algiers which is technically New Orleans.

He showed me the skin and it is huge!

Someone paid him $100.00 for the head and rattle so I didn't get to see that but the skin was enormous and distinctive of a rattle snake.

I believe he said he killed it about a year ago, will have to double check.


...JP
Title: Re: Timber rattlers
Post by: AllenF on November 01, 2010, 10:01:21 pm
$100.00.   Get the buyers name and number for me.   
Title: Re: Timber rattlers
Post by: David McLeod on November 02, 2010, 09:49:35 am
Timbers are indeed rare in many areas and are a species of concern of most of their range. They are one of the more problematic species I work with. I do not kill any snake for any reason all of mine get removed and relocated alive into suitable habitat away from people. I also try to help my customer address the isssues which drew the snake in the first place such as habitat in and around homes and determine what the snake is feeding on. Remove the food and shelter and the snake moves on.
The reason the timbers are problematic is that they do not relocate well. Unlike most other species timbers will have an established home territory with known shelter areas, particularly winter denning sites. This of course is more important in the northern states. Timbers once relocated are often unable to find and reestablish these shelter sites and denning areas and will wander aimlessly until the elements overtake them.
It is mainly due to this behavior combined with our disturbance of the habitat that has endangered timbers. They are just unable to adjust as well as others. Seems to be a common thread among the species that are the dominant predators in their respective ecological niches.
BTW, whenever handling timbers (especially southern ones) be very careful new research is showing that timber venom is highly variable with populations from the south most notably Georgia having particularly virulent toxin of both neuro and hemo toxic varieties. Over the whole range from north to south the venom ranges from very mild to deadly.
Title: Re: Timber rattlers
Post by: iddee on November 02, 2010, 01:51:11 pm
 :cheer:

Thank You, David. Very good post. Timbers are an important pest control themselves, and deserve our help and respect. If feasible, just leave them to go about their business. 
Title: Re: Timber rattlers
Post by: Kathyp on November 02, 2010, 02:16:47 pm
i grew up on southern CA.  rattlesnakes and black widow spiders were just a fact of life.  we learned young where to step and where to put our hands!

but...years ago, in an effort to pacify the loons in CA, Camp Pendleton became a nature preserve.  nothing could be killed except the mice unless there was no other choice.  military even assigned snake wranglers to be called in to relocate snakes that were a problem.  pretty soon, snakes were a problem everywhere.  i don't know that anything has changed there.
 it did become a distraction.  we were more concerned about the constant rattling in the brush, than with the big gunny that was going to stomp on us if we messed up the exercise.

so...live and let live....up to a point.... ;)
Title: Re: Timber rattlers
Post by: bud1 on November 02, 2010, 02:41:07 pm
I saw a show where a fella kissed a fish and threw it back; maby youall folks that like poisonus snakes might wanna start trying that, me , a 22 or nice long stick surfices. i move them right after the head  becomes deformed
Title: Re: Timber rattlers
Post by: Keith13 on November 02, 2010, 05:27:32 pm
Timbers are indeed rare in many areas and are a species of concern of most of their range. They are one of the more problematic species I work with. I do not kill any snake for any reason all of mine get removed and relocated alive into suitable habitat away from people. I also try to help my customer address the isssues which drew the snake in the first place such as habitat in and around homes and determine what the snake is feeding on. Remove the food and shelter and the snake moves on.
The reason the timbers are problematic is that they do not relocate well. Unlike most other species timbers will have an established home territory with known shelter areas, particularly winter denning sites. This of course is more important in the northern states. Timbers once relocated are often unable to find and reestablish these shelter sites and denning areas and will wander aimlessly until the elements overtake them.
It is mainly due to this behavior combined with our disturbance of the habitat that has endangered timbers. They are just unable to adjust as well as others. Seems to be a common thread among the species that are the dominant predators in their respective ecological niches.
BTW, whenever handling timbers (especially southern ones) be very careful new research is showing that timber venom is highly variable with populations from the south most notably Georgia having particularly virulent toxin of both neuro and hemo toxic varieties. Over the whole range from north to south the venom ranges from very mild to deadly.

Ok I will probably catch grief for this lord knows I have with all the country side of my family. I killed the first snake I came across mainly because I almost stepped on it and out of reaction I killed it. I felt bad about killing the snake it wasn’t bothering anybody out in the middle of nowhere doing what snakes do.
The others I came across I just side stepped and left them. I had no way to kill them anyway at the time only thing I had on me was my game camera (but come to find out the best use for that camera was as a snack basher, but that is another story). I guess if I had come across the snakes in my yard yeah poisonous snake in the yard i will kill it, not going to try to catch and move it and end up bitten. Non poisonous I will leave alone.

Weird thing about these snakes none of them rattled. Two were first year snakes and didn't yet have rattles. The other 3 never rattled, well that’s not true the one I dropped the ditch blade on and detached his head he rattled, but a little late. The other two never rattled.

About the venom I read about the swing in potency and, from what I read, can cause huge issues for doctors trying to treat snake bites. Also read timber rattlers have large venom sacks and the largest fangs of rattle snakes

Keith
Title: Re: Timber rattlers
Post by: David McLeod on November 02, 2010, 07:30:02 pm


Ok I will probably catch grief for this lord knows I have with all the country side of my family. I killed the first snake I came across mainly because I almost stepped on it and out of reaction I killed it. I felt bad about killing the snake it wasn’t bothering anybody out in the middle of nowhere doing what snakes do.
The others I came across I just side stepped and left them. I had no way to kill them anyway at the time only thing I had on me was my game camera (but come to find out the best use for that camera was as a snack basher, but that is another story). I guess if I had come across the snakes in my yard yeah poisonous snake in the yard i will kill it, not going to try to catch and move it and end up bitten. Non poisonous I will leave alone.

Weird thing about these snakes none of them rattled. Two were first year snakes and didn't yet have rattles. The other 3 never rattled, well that’s not true the one I dropped the ditch blade on and detached his head he rattled, but a little late. The other two never rattled.

About the venom I read about the swing in potency and, from what I read, can cause huge issues for doctors trying to treat snake bites. Also read timber rattlers have large venom sacks and the largest fangs of rattle snakes

Keith


Please don't take my post to be that of a bunny hugger. Far from it, bunnies taste good. :D So does rattlesnake for that matter, but why kill when I have the knowledge and skill to safely remove and relocate. Besides I get paid to do it, even better, and I'm not in the business of killing my business.

On the rattle thing, it has been reported by herpetologists that there is a marked decrease in rattling behavior being observed in the field. This has been most notable in populated areas. The working theory is that a form of natural selection is at work here, snakes that rattle near humans do not live to pass the trait on. Perversely, this may in fact make rattlers even more dangerous to humans as the number one type of envenomation (other than the totally preventable "playing with a snake" idiots) is the "did not know the snake was there" type.

Treating envenomations is a very difficult and troublesome thing. While it is rare for a fatality to occur with prompt treatment and antivenom the lingering effects can be debilitating. Recently a conservation officer (who kept venomous snakes at his home as part of his biologists duties) took a hit from an eastern in a moment of inattention. The life flight and 60+ vials of antivenom run up a tab in excess of half a million dollars and of course the insurance tried their best to weasel out of it. Last I heard he is now medically retired with major back problems from deteriorated disks in his back where he had no back injuries prior to the bite. The venom did the damage to his back when he was bitten in the finger.
Title: Re: Timber rattlers
Post by: AliciaH on November 03, 2010, 12:12:09 pm
Please don't take my post to be that of a bunny hugger. Far from it, bunnies taste good. :D So does rattlesnake for that matter...

I'll second that!  It's been a long time, but I remember it being very tasty!  I also remember being bummed that the adults were so stingy with it and I only got a couple bites. 
Title: Re: Timber rattlers
Post by: hardwood on November 03, 2010, 12:39:51 pm
As a teen I would hunt venomous snakes with a buddy of mine for several labs around here. We would have to kill a snake on occasion and would always put the meat to good use.

His Thai sister-in-law would make an awesome rattlesnake pizza!

Scott
Title: Re: Timber rattlers
Post by: annette on November 06, 2010, 12:52:17 am
OK I was going to post about this snake last week.  Headed up to my hives in the afternoon 2 weeks ago, a huge rattlesnake was stretched all along the road - about 4 feet long, maybe more, and very large in the middle. Big rattle standing up. I could not get up the road without running it over so I just sat there and watched it. It just stayed there and did not move so I started to make phone calls for help. Then slowly it slithered into the woods.

It was so beautiful and did not rattle even though the car was so close to it.

We have been seeing rattlesnakes all summer around here. More than usual.

Yep as KathyP says:  Rattlesnakes and Black Widows are all over around here.
Title: Re: Timber rattlers
Post by: Brian D. Bray on November 06, 2010, 01:19:09 am
You should make it work for you.  Start a Timber Rattler rescue effort and collect funds to help trap them off your farm, keep a few to show visitors and donors and ship the rest off to other reptile resuce efforts or zoos.     :catchchick: :brian:
Title: Re: Timber rattlers
Post by: AllenF on November 06, 2010, 12:55:42 pm
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2010/09/03/2010-09-03_atlanta_family_rattled_by_poisonous_snake_that_escaped_from_zoo.html (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2010/09/03/2010-09-03_atlanta_family_rattled_by_poisonous_snake_that_escaped_from_zoo.html)

 :shock:
Title: Re: Timber rattlers
Post by: kingbee on November 02, 2012, 04:22:23 pm
Timbers are indeed rare... They are one of the more problematic species... The reason the timbers are problematic is that they do not relocate well... timbers will have an established home territory with known shelter areas, particularly winter denning sites... This of course is more important in the northern states...  

It is also important in the South, especially for Americas largest Rattle Snake the Eastern Diamond Back.  These snakes depend on Gopher Tortoise holes or dens for shelter from summer heat, winter low temperatures, as well as flash brush fires.  (Many areas of the Eastern Diamond Backs territory naturally burns off on average every third year)  Gopher Tortoise dens supply a bolt or hidey hole for the snakes to seek shelter in from fire and inclement weather. 

Timber Rattlers almost always seek winter shelter in limestone rock crevices or small caverns when such are in the area.  If not the crawl space under your house will suffice.  One more thing besides hunger that stirs snakes up and makes them travel is drought, otherwise known as a lack of standing water.   It will cause Timber Rattlers to come down off the wooded heights to seek food and water in the low lands.   
Title: Re: Timber rattlers
Post by: hardwood on November 02, 2012, 06:36:50 pm
And don't go bashing "bunny huggers". If Hef would ever let me in his place I'd be huggin' every bunny I saw!

Scott
Title: Re: Timber rattlers
Post by: David McLeod on November 02, 2012, 08:41:16 pm
Kingbee, I didn't really touch on the easterns but you are so correct that the gopher tortoise is the key component along with fire. Gophers are absolutely protected in Georgia. I still have a few on my home place in south Alabama, along with a remnant population of saddlebacks (easterns). Alabama does not extend protection to gophers outside of Baldwin County (east of Mobile Bay) so my gophers to north have no protection and the saddleback is not protected anywhere in Alabama. Well everywhere that is but my homeplace, I'll skin someone for messing with either a gopher or a saddleback.
Title: Re: Timber rattlers
Post by: Kathyp on November 02, 2012, 08:43:00 pm
Quote
And don't go bashing "bunny huggers". If Hef would ever let me in his place I'd be huggin' every bunny I saw!

you'd be huggin' one and then probably be huggin' the ground!   :evil:  i have seen the muscle he had hired.
Title: Re: Timber rattlers
Post by: kingbee on November 03, 2012, 02:26:33 pm
WELL MISS kathyp, all this talk bout' hugging or getting hugged by tender hearted 'Bunnies' and them hugging snakes made me think bout' this...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_ZBqpEUbik&feature=related (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_ZBqpEUbik&feature=related)

Enjoy the song.
Title: Re: Timber rattlers
Post by: kingbee on November 03, 2012, 02:55:02 pm
... Start a Timber Rattler rescue effort and collect funds... keep a few (around) to show... and donors and ship the rest off to zoos. 

Why not cut to the chase like PETA when they KILL every puppy dog and kitty cat turned in to them.  That will leave more money for you to enjoy and fewer pesky snakes on your property to make things hard on the old Fruit of the Looms.  :-D  :evil:

Hey, that reminds me of a new government grant paying for a robotic squirrel so scientists can study the reaction between robotic rodents and rattle snakes, or maybe it is vicey-vercy?  Anyway it is unimportant, the money is still green. You could get a grant to build a robotic rattle snake to study the interaction between a robotic squirrel and a robotic rattle snake, how cool is that?
http://www.popsci.com/technology/article/2012-03/video-robot-squirrel-confuses-snake-study-predator-prey-behavior (http://www.popsci.com/technology/article/2012-03/video-robot-squirrel-confuses-snake-study-predator-prey-behavior)
Title: Re: Timber rattlers
Post by: don2 on February 13, 2013, 10:16:11 pm
Here in Ga. the Rattle snakes are adapting to not rattle. Due to the increase in " wild Hog" population. Hogs eat snakes, alive and raw. If they hear a rattle, the snake is easier to find. dd2 :roll:
Title: Re: Timber rattlers
Post by: Intheswamp on February 14, 2013, 02:14:09 am
I've heard folks say that they're starting to quit rattling.  I wonder if it's a genetic thing happening.  I'm sure some individual snakes are more prone to rattle than others are....the ones that rattle the most are eaten by the hogs.  Thus the "silent" rattlers are left to breed and raise young that reflect their quieter nature.  Kinda like treating for viruses or pests...you treatment kills the weak, but the strong survive and breed and create a stronger breed that is more resistant to the treatment.

Ed
Title: Re: Timber rattlers
Post by: Vance G on February 14, 2013, 02:59:49 pm
I set my colonies directly on the ground and I ALWAYS tip hives toward me not away because Mr. Rattlesnake loves being out of the sun here on the prairie.  You do the same when throwing hay bales.  I just get little ones because not usually enough room under the bottom boards for a big one.  It always gets the heart beating.  Depends on where the hives are in whether the snake lives or not.  If the yard is out in the lonesome, I let em be.  If it is close to building, the snake has a bad day. 
Title: Re: Timber rattlers
Post by: BMAC on April 03, 2013, 08:41:43 am
i grew up on southern CA.  rattlesnakes and black widow spiders were just a fact of life.  we learned young where to step and where to put our hands!

but...years ago, in an effort to pacify the loons in CA, Camp Pendleton became a nature preserve.  nothing could be killed except the mice unless there was no other choice.  military even assigned snake wranglers to be called in to relocate snakes that were a problem.  pretty soon, snakes were a problem everywhere.  i don't know that anything has changed there.
 it did become a distraction.  we were more concerned about the constant rattling in the brush, than with the big gunny that was going to stomp on us if we messed up the exercise.

so...live and let live....up to a point.... ;)

It was a pain.  It seemed like every other day on the range we had to stop firing because a deer was down range past the burms.  Of course the deer never slowed down some of my mortarman buds. 
Title: Re: Timber rattlers
Post by: sawdstmakr on April 03, 2013, 01:13:56 pm
BMAC,
Mortors make terible hunting rifles. There's nothing left to eat.  :-D
Jim
Title: Re: Timber rattlers
Post by: Intheswamp on April 03, 2013, 05:54:52 pm
...they're probably good for fishing, though!!!   :-D
Title: Re: Timber rattlers
Post by: 10framer on April 07, 2014, 11:43:39 pm
old thread but i'll fire it back up.  i found five timber rattlers on or around my place last year that were three feet or bigger that only had one deformed looking button.  i used to let them "walk" but i'd be more likely to give a diamond back a pass than a timber rattler now.  no rattles makes me nervous and i was the kid that would catch any snake. 
Title: Re: Timber rattlers
Post by: 1frozenhillbilly on May 21, 2014, 04:47:01 am
i just love Alaska! mostly if its gonna bite you its big enough you cn see it coming :D
Title: Re: Timber rattlers
Post by: Intheswamp on May 21, 2014, 01:21:24 pm
i just love Alaska! mostly if its gonna bite you its big enough you cn see it coming :D
Yeah, but if it bites you it drags you off and eats you!!!!!  :-D

Ed
Title: Re: Timber rattlers
Post by: sawdstmakr on May 21, 2014, 01:22:39 pm
Oh so true. :-D
Title: Re: Timber rattlers
Post by: 1frozenhillbilly on May 22, 2014, 02:29:40 pm
at least it's usually pretty quick
Title: Re: Timber rattlers
Post by: jayj200 on May 25, 2014, 05:50:33 pm
ever hear of coppersulfate?
i hear they also put this in chicken fead, goes right through spreads this to ward off snakes
Title: Re: Timber rattlers
Post by: jayj200 on August 27, 2014, 06:48:46 pm
I'd have to do more than hug da bunny


back to snakes yes we have a herd of black snakes down here. don't mind them too much

Da others kill them if ya see them

and No I am not Politically Correct. that crap ceased to impress me!
Title: Re: Timber rattlers
Post by: Richard M on December 16, 2014, 06:36:29 am
BMAC,
Mortors make terible hunting rifles. There's nothing left to eat.  :-D
Jim

When I was in mortars in my Reserve days, we registered a target by fire up at Cultana Training Area (South Australia) then a day later, executed a humongous coord illum mission, with 6 tubes initially firing twenty rounds at emergency rate, (20/min), each HE prox fused and 50% WP and two firing illumination, outer tubes converged, which certainly got the adrenaline pumping. Our platoon commander used to run a competition to see who'd get rounds complete first, so it was 2 rounds hitting per second for a full minute, with 30 or 40 rounds in the air at any one moment. We all thought it was the best fun you could legally have that didn't involve a woman.

Anyway the number of bangs on target were 2 short of total bangs at the baseplate position, so I had to head up there next day with the DemEo to help him find the blinds and blow them.

Well it appeared that every other kangaroo and emu on the range had decided to feed or lay up in the impact area that night, there must have been 20 carcasses scattered around; really messy too - pretty badly smashed and many horribly burned too, a sobering sight. Made me think - it's all great fun until someone looses an eye.

Title: Re: Timber rattlers
Post by: sawdstmakr on December 18, 2014, 01:24:23 pm
i just love Alaska! mostly if its gonna bite you its big enough you cn see it coming :D
Yeah, but if it bites you it drags you off and eats you!!!!!  :-D

Ed
Yea and it can probably out run you or even out climb you.  :-D
Title: Re: Timber rattlers
Post by: 1frozenhillbilly on December 26, 2014, 11:15:28 pm
well sawdstmkr if i can see it coming i can usually get a copu8p[le of .44 into it before it eats me, if that don't ruin its appetite i was lunch anyway
Title: Re: Timber rattlers
Post by: sawdstmakr on December 27, 2014, 12:32:08 am
Frozen,
I have seen a lot of videos of bears being shot through the heart (verified later on) by high powered rifles and still run 400 yards. Some of our pigs here in Florida have enough grizle and fat that they can take a couple of rounds of 357 magnum and hardly slow them down and not kill them. Your 44 is the minimum size hand gun for some of these porkers.
Jim
Title: Re: Timber rattlers
Post by: 1frozenhillbilly on January 01, 2015, 06:11:58 pm
totally agree sawdustmaker, i have tracked heart shot deer for over a mile, any hand gun is a last resort for a big bear, i prefer a neck breaker shot anyway, if you can sever the spinal chord you got a chance and frankly the first shot is into the ground to let it know what i am and that i'm gonna cause a hurt if i hafta all of this is hypothetical anyway, i'm not going looking for a bear or a rattlesnake if i can help it happy new year y'all and keep having fun
Title: Re: Timber rattlers
Post by: Fishing-Nut on August 21, 2017, 01:58:11 pm
I know this topic is pretty old. But I found it interesting. Where I am from we are OVERLOADED with timber Rattlers. AKA cane breaks. I'm 29 years old and have caught hundreds and hundreds of them. (Foolishly I'll admit) but when you grow up in the sticks sometimes boredom will make you do things that you wander about. Anyway, I particularly found the part about the snakes not rattling anymore very interesting. I have dealt with tons of them that didn't ever make a sound, even after coiling up and striking a few times. They all did eventually start rattling at me. But the whole thing about rattling before biting simply isn't true. Also I am in agreement with the person who spoke on the fact that the snakes that rattle get killed by man, and therefore that snake gets culled from the gene pool. Just like some people will fight and some people will sit there and remain quiet. Some snakes are more prone to rattle than others. And whether fortunate or unfortunate, more times than not that snake dies. Also I do not believe that here in Georgia the snakes have learned to hide from wild hogs by not rattling. Even though it is a fact that a wild hog absolutely loves to eat a snake, I just don't think that the snakes not rattling is there way of hiding from them. I think that falls back to the strong instinct to rattle has been culled out throughout the years. I have been wrong before though. Just like this.......my wife and I do feral hog removal, we use dogs (and other methods) to catch hogs. The old timers talk about how it used to be so easy to catch hogs, they'd stand still and "bay up" just about every time. It was the hogs natural instinct to stand his ground and fight. Now throughout the years the hogs that stood around to fight are dead and have not passed on those genes. Most of the hogs we deal with will run for miles and miles. And it is pretty hard to catch a lot of hogs in a trap. Because the ones that are "dumb" (I use that term loosely because hogs are rediculously smart) enough to enter a trap get killed. What I'm getting at is that over the years we are essentially creating a smarter animal, and unknowingly manipulating their genetics. These are just my opinions. And before anybody smacks me around for hog hunting I'd love to show you the damage these things do. I've seen Farmers in tears, crops absolutely destroyed, newborn livestock literally eaten alive, and the list goes on and on. In order to just "maintain" a healthy balance in nature that involves feral hogs, 70% of them need to be killed every year. That's a fact. So Trust me when I tell you that a wild hog isn't something you just want to leave alone because it's a "part of nature". Some things just don't work like that.
Title: Re: Timber rattlers
Post by: eltalia on August 21, 2017, 07:03:58 pm
>I know this topic is pretty old. But I found it interesting.

Myself also FN... I learnt teener rattlers have no rattlle!
A onetime "snake catcher" - in a past life - I supplemented my lowly scholarship 'income' with
doing "Joe Blake"(snake) removals and selling the creatures to enthusiasts. All highly illegal
Down Under today without not easy to get G'mnt permits. Crippled for the purpose of those
outdoor activities I still hold a wonder for our scaly friends and actively encourage others to
leave them well alone.
I cannot offer any insight into the evolutionary behavior being brought up other than pass on
lhe observance feral pig numbers in this Country having exploded - attributed largely to a long
held 1080 baiting of our dingo - the number of 4x4s now kitted out for pig hunting is way over
the few one saw around back when I was your age and out hunting them every other weekend
- pigs at dawn/twilight, bees after breakfast ;-)
One trusty companion is still at it today despite some ailments. He was always the fittest of our
small group and the local 'inventor' of hobbles and breastplates, necessary as we ate a lot of
what we caught and a dog tusked/hit in the chest was a common injury which layed a dog low
for anything up to a month. We dogged all our pigs, no guns, no traps, and yeah, a bevy of
"luggers" who would pull a pig up inside of a 1/4 mile.
I still today breed a line as these creatures are the most gentle of dogs around us humans and
yet held in such awe by the unknowing they are the best of "guard dog" one could feed.

Thanks for the education on rattlers, a snake the movie industry has us all afar greatly afeared
of maracas[1] to this very day ;-)))

Cheerio....

Bill

--
[1]

 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fUgj-aL6EXg
Title: Re: Timber rattlers
Post by: Fishing-Nut on August 21, 2017, 10:26:21 pm
Eltalia , I read a lot of stuff on the Aussie way of hog dogging. I do it a lot different, but I do enjoy reading about what works for other people. A friend of mine got some pups from me and sent them to Australia for a guy to use on hogs. I was extremely interested to see how they turned out but unfortunately lost contact with the person before any information could be passed back to me. I do like the style and the breeding behind what is commonly used in Australia. The lurchers, finder holders, bull Arabs, or luggers as you called them. A big leggy dog with a ton of speed that finds and catches the hog. Mainly sight hounds. I like the concept. But I hunt mostly thick woods and swamps. We rarely ever see the pigs. Therefore I use a scent dog that will pick up a trail. Not hounds though. I don't want them taking a day old track. I breed and raise black mouth curs. I like a dog that will take a track of no more than 5 or 6 hours old. My style of dog will only bite the hog if it's running. When the hog stops to fight the dog will back up and bark.. with the gps collars on the dogs we can get to them in a hurry with the bulldog. Or catchdog as we call them. That's a quick run down of how I do it. I do have friends though that cross bulldogs into their scent dogs and refer to them as running catch dogs. I must admit that they catch a lot of hogs, but they also spend a lot of money on vet bills and lots of down time letting dogs heal. That's why I don't go that route. A wild hog can do some damage rather quickly. If your dog is hanging off of a hogs ear and it takes you 30 minutes to get there it's not going to be good most of the time. I like my dogs more than most hunters do anyway. When one gets hurt I feel pretty bad about it and usually the dog sleeps in the house until it's ready to hit the woods again. Then it's back to the kennels. Hahaha.