Beemaster's International Beekeeping Forum

BEEKEEPING LEARNING CENTER => NATURAL & ORGANIC BEEKEEPING METHODS => Topic started by: Ronnd on March 02, 2009, 09:48:10 pm

Title: starter strips ?
Post by: Ronnd on March 02, 2009, 09:48:10 pm
Do the starter strips need to run the full length of the top bar I planed on useing paint sticks and there about 4 in short
Title: Re: starter strips ?
Post by: Brian D. Bray on March 03, 2009, 02:41:33 am
It is best to run the starter strips from end bar to end bar as a gap will be carried over into the comb being drawn and result in a delay of the fcomb being attached to the end bars of the cmob, if ever,  Sometime they'll go back and tidy it up, but usually not until the 2nd year.
Title: Re: starter strips ?
Post by: suprstakr on March 03, 2009, 11:02:03 am
I use waxed popsicle sticks , and leave the gap even on both ends not the center . Make sure you brad nail the paint sticks to secure them . I learned the hard way .
Of course your cutting the widh down of the paint stirers ?





Waxed--- melt wax dip stick in ..
Title: Re: starter strips ?
Post by: Ronnd on March 03, 2009, 12:44:43 pm
I was not going to cut the width down is 1 in wide to much and I was going to leave them bare wood is waxing needed
Title: Re: starter strips ?
Post by: ArmucheeBee on March 03, 2009, 01:59:53 pm
suprstakr

Are you saying you used the wax to hold the strip in the bar??   or you just coated it with wax to make it attractive?  other threads have talked about gluing the strips in--that seems to work.  i have also read here, that coating with wax might lead to the combing falling off because the melted on wax does not adhere as well as what the bees do.  I am starting these for the first time myself. 
Title: Re: starter strips ?
Post by: suprstakr on March 03, 2009, 02:14:28 pm
Coat with wax to give them direction of building comb . I use 1 brad per stick to keep them in place.
Title: Re: starter strips ?
Post by: Michael Bush on March 05, 2009, 09:33:24 pm
I prefer not to wax them.  The wax you put on won't be attached as well as the bees will attach it.  Also, it's not necessary and I'm lazy.  :)
Title: Re: starter strips ?
Post by: Ronnd on March 05, 2009, 10:05:30 pm
Thanks everyone for the info
Title: Re: starter strips ?
Post by: Michael Bush on March 06, 2009, 07:01:31 am
Just to clarify, the wood guides are necessary, just the wax on them is not.
Title: Re: starter strips ?
Post by: Shawn on March 06, 2009, 11:02:56 am
So, because im not getting what a "starter strip" looks like other than a popcicle stick can someone expalin? If I'm thinking right the popcicle stick is pointing down towards the bottom of the hive attached in the middle of the frame? Does every frame have to have them? Actually Ill post if anyone has a picture in the photo section "Whatit should look like." Sorry if the questions seem dumb but Im ordering a new hive and I want it all to be foundationless, body and supers.
Title: Re: starter strips ?
Post by: Michael Bush on March 06, 2009, 06:21:54 pm
The strip, whether wood or wax, runs horizontally the length of the top bar.  The simplest is to break out the wedge and turn it sideways and nail it back in.  You can also put popscicle sticks in the groove, etc.
Title: Re: starter strips ?
Post by: JP on March 06, 2009, 06:52:47 pm
So, because im not getting what a "starter strip" looks like other than a popcicle stick can someone expalin? If I'm thinking right the popcicle stick is pointing down towards the bottom of the hive attached in the middle of the frame? Does every frame have to have them? Actually Ill post if anyone has a picture in the photo section "Whatit should look like." Sorry if the questions seem dumb but Im ordering a new hive and I want it all to be foundationless, body and supers.

I make starter strips from plasticell and brad them in like this (http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/1244/cimg2731.th.jpg) (http://img145.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cimg2731.jpg)


...JP
Title: Re: starter strips ?
Post by: Shawn on March 06, 2009, 11:34:12 pm
Thanks, I think I got it know :shock:. I need to get the hive ordered soon because my new bees, which will be my third one, will be here the end of April.
Title: Re: starter strips ?
Post by: PeskySquirrel on March 12, 2009, 01:48:13 pm
If putting starter strip frames between existing frames of "pulled out" comb (to rotate old comb out or ease congestion--per Micheal Bush's suggestion), do the "pulled out" frames need to be capped brood (or honey) to prevent the bees from simply pulling out the existing frames further (before beginning work on the starter strips)? Or does it not really matter? Thanks.
Title: Re: starter strips ?
Post by: Robo on March 12, 2009, 01:53:30 pm
It matters a lot.   Either put them on the brood area or between capped honey.   Even in the brood area you will sometimes still get them overdrawing the top of the drawn frames where they store honey.   Put them between empty comb in a super and you'll end up with a real mess.
Title: Re: starter strips ?
Post by: kathyp on March 12, 2009, 01:59:02 pm
i second what robo said.  i made that mistake once!  never again.  also, with the package you  may want to put a full sheet or two in your 1st super as a guide.  i dumped a swarm in with just starter strips last year and they made a mess of things. 
Title: Re: starter strips ?
Post by: Scadsobees on March 12, 2009, 02:18:48 pm
It matters a lot.   Either put them on the brood area or between capped honey.   Even in the brood area you will sometimes still get them overdrawing the top of the drawn frames where they store honey.   Put them between empty comb in a super and you'll end up with a real mess.

I've tried that too...I have never seen such thick honeycomb before  :-D
Title: Re: starter strips ?
Post by: Paraplegic Racehorse on March 12, 2009, 07:51:14 pm
being both short of drawn comb (full frames) and wanting to be a little lazy about my starter strips (don't want to melt and then form the wax sheets), this year's plan is to sacrifice several full frames of drawn comb in order to get about one inch of fully formed "starter strip" to line several frames and/or top-bars. It should be pretty easy to melt-and-attach. The bees will hopefully complete the attachment process before they build it too heavy. (fingers crossed)

Has anyone used this method with good results? How about lousy results?
Title: Re: starter strips ?
Post by: Michael Bush on March 14, 2009, 09:54:22 pm
>Has anyone used this method with good results? How about lousy results?

It was a common method back in L.L. Langstroths day.  Huber's hive has holes for pegs to hold it up until it was attached.  You might find this section about doing queens by turning it sideways useful for your purposes:

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesbetterqueens.htm#Preparing%20the%20Cells
Title: Re: starter strips ?
Post by: Bee Happy on April 20, 2009, 09:54:50 pm
along these lines - if you do a wax (suggestion) strip - will the bees convert to the smallest cell as they go?
- no idea what (cell) size suggestion sheet I put up for them but just wondering if they will default to their preferred size after
Title: Re: starter strips ?
Post by: doak on April 21, 2009, 12:02:00 am
That is why I prefer wedge top bars.
I'll "when I start" just take the wedge out, cut foundation in one inch strips and install the same way I do full foundation. What's wrong with this method? or did I miss something? :)doak
Title: Re: starter strips ?
Post by: Robo on April 21, 2009, 06:54:00 am
along these lines - if you do a wax (suggestion) strip - will the bees convert to the smallest cell as they go?

Not sure what you mean by smallest cell,  but regardless what you use for a guide they will build the size cells they see fit.   They do not take whatever we give them and just duplicate it for the whole frame.   The cells on the starter strip will be drawn out to whatever size is on the foundation, but once they start building down from the strip, they will adjust the cell size to their need.  If they are large cell bees, they won't go right to ~4.9 but will do an intermediate size as they regress.
Title: Re: starter strips ?
Post by: Michael Bush on April 21, 2009, 08:42:24 pm
>along these lines - if you do a wax (suggestion) strip - will the bees convert to the smallest cell as they go?

It matters not whether you use wax or wood or whatever they will build the size cells they want.

>- no idea what (cell) size suggestion sheet I put up for them but just wondering if they will default to their preferred size after

You mean the rest of the comb?  Yes, they will adjust the size to what they want after they build the strip.

>That is why I prefer wedge top bars.
I'll "when I start" just take the wedge out, cut foundation in one inch strips and install the same way I do full foundation. What's wrong with this method?

Nothing except that the wax is more fragile and more likely to fall out and needs to be replaced when the comb is being replaced.  If you turned the wedge sideways and glued it in you'd never have to mess with it again.  :)
Title: Re: starter strips ?
Post by: Eshu on May 13, 2009, 03:20:18 pm
Do the starter strips need to run the full length of the top bar I planed on useing paint sticks and there about 4 in short

They don't need to span the entire width, but I do.  I use paint stir sticks split in half lengthwise with another third of a stick to span the entire frame.  I score the sticks lengthwise using a utility knife and a metal ruler.  If you use a sharp knife they break cleanly.  It is somewhat tedious, but I don't do a lot.