Beemaster's International Beekeeping Forum
BEEKEEPING LEARNING CENTER => GENERAL BEEKEEPING - MAIN POSTING FORUM. => Topic started by: Mklangelo on April 11, 2007, 12:13:37 am
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I was wondering if someone could explain the best way to mark a package queen. I have read about clipping and don't want to try that just yet. It sounds sort of surgical for a newbee. What is the method you can use for marking her while inside her original cage when delivered in a package?
Best regards! :-D
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>What is the method you can use for marking her while inside her original cage when delivered in a package?
There is no way to mark her while she's inside the cage. You have to take her out. I use a queen muff from Brushy Mt. so she can't fly off. Let her out of the cage, catch her in a marking tube (available from Brushy Mt. or most other suppliers) and then mark her. I would not try marking a queen until you've tried it on some drones. It's a bit scary when you've never done it.
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesqueenrearing.htm
Look for "Queen Catching and marking"
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You can also do it inside your veil (not while wearing it). Or if you only have a few, take them into a small room in the house, like the bathroom, so if she gets away, you can easily retrieve here.
I like using one of these.
(http://www.beeworks.com/catalog/images/catcher-plunger.jpg)
In a pinch, you can make one out of a pill bottle and some plastic mesh from an onion bag (find one that has small enough mesh)
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why? i know it makes them easier to see, but is it worth the risk to your queen at this point?
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why? i know it makes them easier to see, but is it worth the risk to your queen at this point?
So you know if your queen has swarmed or been superceded
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ahhhh
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Mklangelo
I too wanted to mark my queens. I took MB's advice and bought a queen muff from Brushy Mt. so she can't fly off. I also bough the marking tube. I planned to release the queen in the muff and hold her with one hand and mark with the other. I put the marking tube and pen in the queen muff just in case I needed to use it instead of holding her. (Not sure if I would follow through and pick her up!)
Anyway, when I got the queen cage out of the package, to my surprise, there were about 6 attendant bees in the cage with the queen. Talk about perspectives changing... Plus the queens were not that much bigger than the workers. I was expecting a huge difference...don't know why. To make a long story short, the queens went in the hive without being marked!
I believe I could have done it very easily with the queen muff and holding the queen but the 6 extra stinging bees concerned me! If I put them in the muff and let them go one by one I was afraid I would lose the queen. I thought about just killing the 6 but first, I didn't want to kill any bee and second I was concerned about killing the queen! I just have to figure out how to get rid of the workers in the queen cage.
Anyway, I'm not sure if these are your first bees or not but I just wanted to let you know that if the are your first bees it will probably be very different than what you think. I do believe a queen muff is a great thing to have if you want to mark.
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If these are your first bees, I'd recommend getting to know the bees better before trying it.
It is really nice to have a marked queen, finding her and all, and to know if they've been superceded. But you are up a real creek if you accidentally damage her. Queens may do alright with some damage, but they can also fail if you break something on her. Specially, if like me, you aren't confident enough to handle her without the fear of stings.
I would recommend waiting until you have some drones to try it on (and there are some in a package) first. You can always mark her later (if you can find her :) )
Rick
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buy one already marked if your not sure you can do it :lol:
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Just put her in the hive and later when they are settled in, pull the frame she is on and dab her with the posca paint pen.
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>but the 6 extra stinging bees concerned me!
But they really won't be concerned with you.
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>but the 6 extra stinging bees concerned me!
But they really won't be concerned with you.
I'll bet. I think I'll practice on some drones as I gather the needed equipment.
Thanks for all the replies!
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But they really won't be concerned with you.
So I should just let them out in the queen muff and go about carefully marking the queen and they wont be bothered?
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I thought I had ordered a marked queen but she came unmarked. I re-queened in the Fall but that queen was almost immediately superseded (I know because I put a marked queen in the hive). So I'm replacing that queen, which has done all right but not nearly as well as my other Fall, marked queen in my other hive.
I took my unmarked queen out of the hive on a warm winter day and marked her with nail polish so I could find her more easily after spring build up. It was a mess -- I had no equipment except the closed cab of my pick up but I got it done and she survived.
My new queen I will mark before putting her in the push in cage in the hive. Thanks to Michael Bush and other knowledgeable folks, I have a better game plan including Micheal's suggestion of Testor's paint as I can't find the uni Posca in time. This forum is a bee saver!
I am very glad to have marked queens. Its not an absolute must but does make it easier for me to understand what is going on in my hive.
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Thanks to Michael Bush and other knowledgeable folks, I have a better game plan including Micheal's suggestion of Testor's paint as I can't find the uni Posca in time.
The Uni Posca can be bought at any arts and craft store, like Micheals. Staples may even have it.
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>So I should just let them out in the queen muff and go about carefully marking the queen and they wont be bothered?
Just don't set your palm down on one. :) There are no guarantees they won't try to sting you, but they are usually busy trying to get out or feed the queen. They are not defending a hive. Bees do not sting to protect a queen.
It's worth learning to catch and mark a queen with your bare fingers, but it will take some practice with drones. Don't try it until you feel proficient at it.
It's also always a good idea to have a few small nucs around with queens in them in case you need one.
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It's also always a good idea to have a few small nucs around with queens in them in case you need one.
I've heard this a lot but can't quite figure out how to work it. I have two 5 frame nuc boxes. How would I keep a small nuc with a queen just in case? Won't the nuc grow and need to be placed in a hive?
I bought the nuc hives in case I found a swarm or to build small nucs. I just can't figure out how to keep them small. I would think they would grow and then swarm if not moved to a hive....
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I read up on this recently and thought it was a great way to keep spare queens, build up foundation and also increase other hives. When the nuc starts to grow, take out a frame of brood and place it into one of the proper hives.
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>I've heard this a lot but can't quite figure out how to work it. I have two 5 frame nuc boxes. How would I keep a small nuc with a queen just in case?
Keeping a hive small is easy. As AllenJ says, just steal some brood now and then. Or split it. Or use it to draw comb...
> Won't the nuc grow and need to be placed in a hive?
If you let it, yes.
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesnucs.htm
I bought the nuc hives in case I found a swarm or to build small nucs. I just can't figure out how to keep them small. I would think they would grow and then swarm if not moved to a hive....
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So, the same basic principle could work with an observation hive right? I plan to make my own observation hive this weekend. If I just let the bees draw comb and then every so often remove a frame of brood and put it in a hive and replace the frame with foundation...that should keep them small. Do I have this right?
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>So, the same basic principle could work with an observation hive right? I plan to make my own observation hive this weekend. If I just let the bees draw comb and then every so often remove a frame of brood and put it in a hive and replace the frame with foundation...that should keep them small. Do I have this right?
Basically, yes. The only catch is that the field bees keep going back to the old hive so it's hard to cut the population down quickly by just taking brood combs. That cuts it down eventually. Therefore, you need to plan ahead to keep the population under control, without doing too much.
In case you're not following me, you take a frame of brood and bees and put it in another hive. The nurse bees stay. The brood, of course is now gone from the nuc or observation hive, but the field bees will fly back home. This makes it a little harder than you'd think at first to keep a constant population. But basically as long as you keep stealing brood at the appropriate speed, you can keep the population reasonably stable.
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Does anyone have a photo of this queen muff? I'm trying to picture it, and I don't think I've got it. :-D
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There is a picture in their paper catalog.
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I don't have the catalog. Does anyone have one they have taken a photo of?
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Here you go!
http://www.zunibeefarms.com/images/queenmuff.jpg (http://www.zunibeefarms.com/images/queenmuff.jpg)
http://www.zunibeefarms.com/images/queenmuff1.jpg (http://www.zunibeefarms.com/images/queenmuff1.jpg)
Each side has elastic to go around your wrist. You put your marker and any other tools you want in the queen muff then put the queen gage in it then when you put your hands in from each side you can work the queen and she can't fly away.
Sounded real good unitl I looked in the queen cage and saw 6 or 7 workers with her!
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Thanks for the pictures Zunibee.
And just look at those workers as practice. Okay so maybe they sting if you try to color them.
;)
Sincerley,
Brendhan
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all i do is grab the queen by the wings when shes on the comb then while holding her i put my pointer fingure under her and let her grab my fingure, and when she grabs my fingure i get my thumb and hold her by one side of her legs then mark her.... you grab her just like you are putting her in a queen cage, same as the attendants with her ;) , just reach down and gently catch by the wings, it would be good to practice on drones, i never did first bee i ever grabed was a queen ant then 6 attenant with her, got some friends that sale alot of queens and i was helping them and they said "i needed to learn so look in this nuc and load the queen and 6 attendants", now i am confortable with it.....