Beemaster's International Beekeeping Forum
BEEKEEPING LEARNING CENTER => GENERAL BEEKEEPING - MAIN POSTING FORUM. => Topic started by: randydrivesabus on December 28, 2006, 03:53:24 pm
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(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v205/randydrivesabus/1228061422.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v205/randydrivesabus/1228061421.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v205/randydrivesabus/1228061420.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v205/randydrivesabus/1228061418.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v205/randydrivesabus/1228061417.jpg)
the rest of the frames are either drawn out but empty or not drawn out at all.
i guess i can just get a new package in the spring with a new queen and dump them in.
this was taken with my phone so they may not be the greatest pictures.
the hive that didnt die is very active today :)
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Hey If you don't know why they died replace the used combs could have sickness on them maybe mites
kirko
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Seems to me a lot could be learned from popping the cap on one of those drone cells still evident hither and yon. If the pupae is formed in shape, but whole, there should not be a big problem. Icky, squishy though is throw it out.
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Randy, I would be curious why the combs look so strange with the holes in them, the comb is so deep in some parts and the other parts are very shallow. I have not seen comb like this. I have not been in the bee scene for an overly long time and maybe that is why I have not seen comb such as your. the comb that I see in my hives is completely different than what I see in your picture.
Can someone tell me if this is what natural comb looks like? I have not seen it before. This is not meant to be offensive to you, I hope it does not come across this way, I am just a curious person. Great day. Cindi
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Seems to me that those are drone pupae and hive have had unmated queen. The workers just finished.
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This brings up a question I had. If when you move a hive and the bees end up not accepting the new location and die, can you just dump a new package into the hive? Do you need to worry about the brood and such?
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It depends how much brood has been without bees and how much they have chilled.
If brood are dead in combs it is not good to put new bees on dirty combs. Take clean combs, restrict the room with medievall wall that bees occupy all rest frames. That starts well.
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Yes, that is natural comb.
Any background on that dead hive? Was there a cluster that you cleaned out already?
Definately cut out the funky comb so that they can hopefully draw it out better next time.
-rick
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the frame in the top 2 pictures kind of came apart....one or 2 of the wires is just hanging loose at the bottom(the 2 pictures are the same frame from one side then the other). i will check out some of the drone cells later today.
a little hive history.....this was my strong hive and i moved a couple of frames of brood to the other hive back in the late spring (i see the value of keeping records now). i also added a second deep to this hive way before i did to the other because this hive was busting with bees. but something must have happened to the queen and i saw that the population in this hive was dwindling. this was already in late summer when i noticed this. meanwhile the other hive was just loaded with bees and they stung me a lot one hot morning in July when i was poking around their hive. so i kind of shied away from my bees for a while and it was during this time when the now dead hive probably could have used some help....like a new queen.
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Sorry for jumping in... A lot could be said if one would be able to see and experience when all this was taking place.
All that I can see on this pictures is empty and even chewed up combs, with some pollen. IMO the bees most likely starved...
It is the strongest colonies that need a hand in need, cause they consume the most.
Now, you as a keep should know best what went on. If queen was a dud? Perhaps..?
Than bees joined, (what was left of them) the other hive and robbers did the number on the combs?
Hard to tel with limited info... Just guessing, at best...
Regards,
Trot
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Yes, that is natural comb.
Any background on that dead hive? Was there a cluster that you cleaned out already?
Definately cut out the funky comb so that they can hopefully draw it out better next time.
-rick
Rick, that funky comb? That is natural? I actually heard someone talking about "funny" comb. I presume they were talking about the same type of comb, built strangely, but any ideas why they would build comb that is raised above the foundation. It looks like the bees could actually climb below this comb that is on the face of the foundation. What is on the bottom of the comb that is between the foundation and base of the comb. I don't know if that makes any sense what I said, but it did in my own eyes. Would the bees cap the bottom of the cell and the top of the cell. Gotta understand what is going on here. Great day. Cindi
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if i can get my field plowed today i'll go take some better pics but so far its going slow....broke a shear bolt and had to go to the hardware store so i lost an hour. and now i got hungry.....
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my $.02...
I'm with Finsky on this one...went queenless and then a poorly mated queen or laying workers, not resolved which explains the drone brood/comb. Dwindled to very little, and any left over honey stores were robbed out by the other colony. The last bit of drone brood didn't hatch out in time, and chilled and died.
I thought at first that you were using foundationless frames/starter strips, but now I see what looks like vertical foundation wires. I consider any comb that the bees create left to their own devices to be natural. And they can make some weird comb. If they have a box full of regular worker comb and then they create their own comb, it will usually be drone comb. And that looks like what they did.
Cindi, why the second layer of comb? They might have had a little too much space between and thought they could fit an extra comb in between. That is one of the reasons why we are told to scrunch all of the new frames togather until they are all drawn out, then we can space them. I don't know if that is why this time. I had a little where my duragilt was down to plastic, they didnt' like that so they just did what they wanted. In my case (only a palm size piece of comb) there wasn't anything behind.
-rick
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I saw no honey stores or at least no capped honey stores. I think they may have starved.
I did not see a lot of brood cells. That may be a queen issue. It may be a combination of both.
The funky comb didn't bother me sometimes the bees just do that.
Sincerely,
Brendhan
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Rick,
<That is one of the reasons why we are told to scrunch all of the new frames togather until they are all drawn out, then we can space them.
So, for instance, in a 10 frame Langstroth deep, for a honey super, I understand 9 frames is best because the bees draw it deeper, more honey per frame, and easier to uncap. In this instance, push the 9 frames close together, then as comb is drawn, space equally? Is this the jist? Sounds proper for surely. Correct me if I get wrong impression. Great day. Cindi
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I always crowd ten frames in a ten frame box into the center tightly until they are drawn. Then, in the supers you can space them out. In the brood chambers I don't. In fact I shave a bit off the end bars and put eleven frames in a ten frame box, or in my case, nine frames in an eight frame box.
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i opened up some of the capped drone cells and the occupants were just dead bees. the frames have some pollen in them.
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In the brood chambers the combs should always be crowded together. In the supers it might not be as important but it is still a practice I use. What can't be uncapped with a knife can be with a fork. Deeper combs doe not necessarily mean more honey per super. Spacing the frames can be a inducive to burr comb etc as removing frames from 10 to 9 or 8.
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No. Put in 10 frames. After they are drawn, you can remove one and adust the spacing. If you put 9 frames of foundation pushed together in a 10 frame box, you will get wild comb in the open space at the end or ends. Bees prefer to make their own and will do so every chance they have.
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OK, good advice. I have always had 10 frames in brood and honey boxes, but read that 9 in honey super might be better. Yup, do not want that burr comb beyond what the bees already do, nor wild comb either. 10 frames it shall be.
It would seem that it would be rather too much work anyways if one was to allow the bees to draw the 10 frames and then remove one to have 9 to make them draw comb out deeper. Not going there for sure.
This is what is great about this forum, the advice flows, and then decisions can be made. It is such a good thing and again and again, thank you all for the advice that we all welcome. Great 2007. Cindi