Beemaster's International Beekeeping Forum
BEEKEEPING LEARNING CENTER => TOP BAR HIVES - WARRE HIVES - LONG HIVES => Topic started by: Bob Wilson on July 15, 2020, 12:46:43 am
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I am still working out the times and usage of followboard. As you can see in the picture, I have removed it from this horizontal langstroth.
I seemed a good thing during the the cold winter and early spring, but it created problems.
1. It contributed to swarming. Probably because I kept the hive too restricted. Swarming has been the number one issue with my long hives.
2. The bees seem to beard more with it in. I am not sure why.
3. Since a follow board is not meant to completely seal off the unused part of the box (it has a gap at the bottom), small hive beetles have access to the whole box, so why not the bees? They have to police the entire box anyway.
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Bob I do not know anything about long hives, except the problems associated with them as discussed on the forum here. I do not know the advantages to the long hive as compared to the modern langstroth hive. No doubt there must be some advantages or folks would not be so intent on using them. I know our own Brother from Texas has commented on their use as he is an amputee and he commented that it helps him height wise. Do you have, or have you tried the langstroth type hives that are widely used today? If not this may be a consideration?
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3. Since a follow board is not meant to completely seal off the unused part of the box
I think it should. I would make attempts to make it so. There should be enough space on the bee side so they don't swarm.
Long hives have the advantage of easier access to the bees but they also have the disadvantage of requiring much more intervention many more times. It is like trying to keep bees in nuc boxes.
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I am not going to stray off the subject to far. Therefore I will start another topic spinning off form this topic. I will call it The Rose Hive.
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Acebird. Greetings Brian. I am pretty sure that a follow board is not meant to completely seal off the back half of a long hive. They are 4 foot long boxes, with inevitable slight warping of the wood, so the follow board might be tight in one location but looser further back. Also, it is easier to seal a square box with a flat board of top and a weight, than a vertical board inside a box.
The follow board, as I understand it, is to create a false back, restricting the building of comb to the front. Since it is almost impossible to make it truly sealed, most people leave a 1/2 inch gap at the bottom, so bees that get through (and they will) can get back in again.
Ben. My bad back laid me out if work for a week not long before I decided to beekeep. That alone set my feet upon horizontal beekeeping. I have three of them as of now. It is like opening a file cabinet, and shifting around the files.
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> Ben. My bad back laid me out if work for a week not long before I decided to beekeep. That alone set my feet upon horizontal beekeeping. I have three of them as of now. It is like opening a file cabinet, and shifting around the around the files.
Sorry about your back Bob. I am glad you have an alternative with the long hive. 👍🏻
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Thanks, Ben.
The worst things about long langs is the footprint. They take up a lot of room for each hive, rather than stacking three or four hives on a single pallet. That problem does bug me, and I wonder about increasing the number of hives in the long run.
I come so close at times to building a standard langstroth, then my back acts up and i think... Nah. Better stick with what I got.
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If you do decide to try a standard lang, consider 8 frame shallow. It may take more boxes but each one is a lot lighter. I have a couple hives that are all 10 frame shallows. They work just fine. The bees don't seem to mind.
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The follow board, as I understand it, is to create a false back, restricting the building of comb to the front. Since it is almost impossible to make it truly sealed, most people leave a 1/2 inch gap at the bottom, so bees that get through (and they will) can get back in again.
To me a 1/2 gap is worthless. If the bees can get through they can build comb where there are no frames. A follower board can be made so it rest on the bottom of the box and the exact width of the box if you angle each side a little so you twist it in place. Then use foam weather strip on the lid to seal off the top. If you have an 1/8 gap or larger on the board the bees are going to spend too much time on trying to seal it up. Make the board as snug as possible so the bees can seal it up quick and easy.
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I come so close at times to building a standard langstroth, then my back acts up and i think... Nah. Better stick with what I got.
You're not the first to mention this but I think the excuse is not valid. I have a very bad back. By using all 8 frame mediums beekeeping is possible without danger to my back as a back yarder. By the same token no one is running anything commercial with long hives. The only advantage I see for a long hive is cost (less equipment). Not a huge difference though.
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In my experience with horizontal hives you have to keep feeding empty frames into the brood nest to keep them from swarming.
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Michael.
Yes. That was my great mistake this spring. I didn't understand the concept of how, when, and why to feed empty frames into the brood nest, so there was a lot of swarming. I am really looking forward to this coming spring, and doing it right.
Acebird.
You may be right. 8 frame medium boxes might be OK for me, and i may well try one next year. Who knows? I am a hobbyist, and it wouldn't cost too much to change this over from the 150 deep frames I purchased so far. I could cut them down to mediums.
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Although I am not in favor of mixing equipment you could keep a 10 frame deep on the bottom and not have to cut all the frames. At least in the beginning.
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In my experience with horizontal hives you have to keep feeding empty frames into the brood nest to keep them from swarming.
Well that pretty much guarantees I will never have a horizontal hive.
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I dont know, Acebird.
With standard langstroths, people are checkerboarding honey supers, pyramiding brood nests, reversing boxes, and all other kinds of manipulations to keep the brood nest open and forestalling backfill. I suppose it happens more often in long langs, to seed a few empties at the front of the box every week, but Its all effort one way or the other.
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With standard langstroths, people are checkerboarding honey supers, pyramiding brood nests, reversing boxes, and all other kinds of manipulations to keep the brood nest open and forestalling backfill.
Backfill is a preparation for winter so I would not discourage that. All these other manipulations are spring prep to encourage brood nest expansion for the anticipation of the great flow. I would not recommend any of these manipulations after a honey cap is established in a Lang hive. But taking this quote from MB:
In my experience with horizontal hives you have to keep feeding empty frames into the brood nest to keep them from swarming.
it appears it is a common practice for Long hives. Assuming Michael to be right (and I have never known him to be wrong) I personally would never keep bees in a Long hive. That is all I am saying.
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My 1st 31 frame Long Langstroth has the follower board so bees can get in there. They have not built comb there since Feb 2021 to now. It is kept very clean.
Will be interesting to see difference with my 2nd 31 frame Long Langstroth which closes off completely, swarm placed in Feb 2022. Already see SHB problem there.
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Lois,
Welcome to Beemaster.
Jim Altmiller
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Hi, Lois. Welcome.
Concerning follow boards, I removed them last summer and did not replace them this past winter.
This is my 4th spring with long langstroths. I have 3 of them (32 frames each) and they were all completely filled this past year. I reduced the hives back down to 12 frames for the winter. The entrances are at one end, then the broodnest, then honey frames, then the open back ends of the box. They have done great so far. We have freezing weather, but not too bad.
I am adding empty frames as they build up this spring.
I am running these like Les Crowder's book "Top Bar Beekeeping" says. How about you?
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Hive 1 I put follower board back in when 1 queen only. As ended up with 2 queens honey centre after winter queen disappearance. Have about 28 frames in at this time just about Autumn start here.
Hive 2 Swarm caught end Jan.
Have placed brood centre, 14 frames then follower boards either side. Hive 2 photo(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220226/c6d7f8799676c4f9fe4cf17b0ae4ec28.jpg)
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These are my hives. Its all I can realistically keep in my suburban bubble neighborhood.
I have read many places that keeping entrances in the center on the long side, splits the box. The problem (as I understand it) is that the queen keeps the brood nest in the middle near the entrance, and that it splits the nectar and honey, so that in winter the bees starve on one side or the other, seeing they can't/won't get to the opposite side.
Of course, I don't know this to be true from experience. It will interesting for you to tell me what happens as you go through the seasons.
When I did use follow boards (and I might next winter) I kept just one.
As far as keeping a divider board in the middle and housing two colonies in the box, (one on each end with their own entrances), I think that is a great way to use a box. for me, after the first year each colony filled up one whole box itself.
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for me, after the first year each colony filled up one whole box itself.
That is the goal isn't it? I can't see an advantage to two colonies in a long box. I can picture problems with it.
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for me, after the first year each colony filled up one whole box itself.
That is the goal isn't it? I can't see an advantage to two colonies in a long box. I can picture problems with it.
I was just wondering if as has happened when I get a older queen cell I could move it with some of the bees down to one side and use that like a nuc. Bending and lifting not a good option for me. That is why I have Long Langstroth. Started originally with deep nuc, moved to 10 frame, 1 brood, 1 honey, couldn't lift without disruption of residents. Decided to stick with deep frame at a height with no lifting.
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I don't see any problems with using a long hive with divider boards as nucs. As long as they each have their own entrance.
The big issue is that the divider boards need to separate the compartments well.
ALTHOUGH... I have found that having a 5 frame nuc box on hand works out better. It's small enough to store. It makes it easy to make a nuc with a few frames of bees from the long hive and the swarm cell. And it lets the main colony expand through the entire long hive.
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I don't see any problems with using a long hive with divider boards as nucs. As long as they each have their own entrance.
The big issue is that the divider boards need to separate the compartments well.
ALTHOUGH... I have found that having a 5 frame nuc box on hand works out better. It's small enough to store. It makes it easy to make a nuc with a few frames of bees from the long hive and the swarm cell. And it lets the main colony expand through the entire long hive.
Thanks for your comment. Will keep nuc.
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