Beemaster's International Beekeeping Forum
BEEKEEPING LEARNING CENTER => GENERAL BEEKEEPING - MAIN POSTING FORUM. => Topic started by: rayb on January 12, 2008, 10:58:15 pm
-
For those of you planning on using pollen substitutes, which brand do you prefer? My first year (last year) I bought simple soy substitute from Kelley Bees. After seeing the other more complex home made mixtures on this site and the commercial substitutes, soy seems too "simple".
Is soy alone going to do the job or will the others be a lot better?
Thanks, Ray
-
Ray...
I used this recipe last year and I just made up a batch today. According to ABC \ XYZ's recommended amino acid percentages for protein patties this recipe meets or exceeds all of them. Last yr. I used it and the bees liked it - no problems at all.
Dry measurements:
2 lbs. Baker's yeast ( Sam's sells it, about $11 ) = 1 quart
Goat or Calf milk replacer ( 24% protein - powdered. Farm supply store ) = 6 quarts ( you can buy by the pail )
White granulated sugar = 10 lbs.
Mix dry ingredents.
Use 6 cups of well mixed dry ingredents to 5 oz. warm water. Mix completely until very stiff. The 6 cup portion will make 3 good size patties. Press each patty between wax paper. Place one (1) wax paper patty on top of frames over brood area. You'll probably have to use a shim\spacer ( I use 1 1\2" spacer ) between the patty and the inner cover in order for the patty not to be squeezed when you close to hive.
The entire recipe will make about 21 nice size ( 8" dia. X 3\8" ) patties. You'll have about $20 to $25 dollars in the patties. Good luck..
-
I have used bee-pro , feedbee, and that new mega bee that dadant just started carrying last year my bees seemed to like them all the bee-pro and feedbee gave me a good buildup and as for the mega bee I'm going to put another patty in today and I'll see what kind of build up I have this spring you can buy them in small quantities but I always buy them in bulk bee-pro comes in 50 lb bags feedbee in 44 lb bags and mega bee comes in 40 lbs bags Ill mix 5 gal. of syrup I use hfcs (pro-sweet 50) because the patties don't seem to get rock hard like they do when I mix sugar and water I guess it's because its cooked and the sugar water isn't I don't know for sure but anyway I mix 5 gal. of syrup with 5 lbs of irradiated pollen mix it real well and let it sit for an hour or so just to let it soak in some syrup then I mix in a bag of pollen substitute
it gets real thick real fast so I slowly add in small amounts 1 more gallon of syrup as I mix everything then I let it sit overnight .Thats 1 bag of mix ,5 lbs. of pollen and 6 gallons of syrup thats what I use with bee-pro I make 123 patties that are roughly about a pound it cost me about .62 cents a patty , with feedbee I made 117 patties at .93 cents each and with mega bee I made 112 patties at.99 cents per patty I get all my stuff from Dadant and sons or Mann lake I live between them about 45 min from ea. I know everybody has their own mix and their own ideas but this is what works for me hope it helps
metzelplex
-
Thanks Steve and Metzelplex,
Looks like if I'm going to go to the effort of putting patties on, then something better than just soy flour would be appropriate. I'm looking forward to giving them a good start.
Ray
-
[Is soy alone going to do the job or will the others be a lot better?]
I wouldn't suppose that people just put extra stuff in for no reason.
Look at what is being added, then try to figure out why that item is being added.
It takes a bit of studying bee nutrition to appreciate what and why.
When you do that you will have a much better appreciation (hate) for the generic term of "balanced diet".
Otherwise, you are chasing your tail asking everyone's opinion and getting a thousand answers.
You have to do what is appropriate for your area (demographics change what is appropriate to add).
-
I have bought pollen from Mann Lake, Brushy Mt and collected it. There's nothing as good as pollen.
-
Metzelplex. I see that you said that you said that you let the mixture stand overnight. I am wondering how that works for you. I say this because I remember when I did some research on making pollen patties, the site indicated that when making the pollen patties to immediately afterwards form the patties. It had gone on to even tell the people (this must have been a commercial pollen patty maker) to not even wait until after lunch to form the patties because they will get too stiff.
I have always formed the patties immediately after mixing. I think that I read in your posts that the pollen patties got really hard, unless I was misunderstanding what you said. Wondering if you meant that the pollen mixture got really hard before you made the patties. That would probably be because you let the mixture sit overnight. I am not putting down your method, just trying to understand a little better. Maybe I don't have to form the patties immediately, sometimes I am so pressed for time that to form the patties the next day would be more pertinent. Interesting stuff. Have a great, wonderful day. Cindi
-
i don't feed substitutes. during the pollen season i trap some, dry it well and store a couple of kilos in the freezer just in case of a dearth period. if i have to feed pollen, i take the frozen pollen, throw some into the blender with some confectionairs sugar and blend the two. i spoon the mixture on the top bars as a dry feed and the bees polish it off within minutes.
-
Tig, I think your feeding is excellent and absolutely good. Of course pollen and sugar are the best in the west. I agree totally 100%. BUT....where I live, it is not the best of weather when we are feeding the bees their pollen patties. This is my opinion. The pollen, mixed with brewers yeast and sugar and water make a firm product that can lay on top of the frames, it does not fall down to the bottom board (or through the screened bottom if one is using screened bottom boards that are open). The bees go up to the top where it is warmer (if they aren't there already) and feed on it.
I think the purpose of the addition of brewers yeast is to act as the catalyst that holds the pollen together in one piece.
I am going to do an experiment this season. I have said that I am an experimenter. I know that the bees absolutely love the pollen patties that I make with the brewers yeast. But I also would believe that it would be even more superior without the addition of the yeast. I am going to indeed try to make a patty with only pollen and sugar. Putting in the blender does sound like a good thing, but my blender is not very big (hee, hee). I will be experimenting to see what happens without the brewers yeast. I am totally open to all ideas, and hearing everyone's way of feeding pollen is absolutely wonderful. So much food for thought here. Have a wonderful and best of days. Cindi
-
I have used bee-pro , feedbee, and that new mega bee that dadant just started carrying last year my bees seemed to like them all the bee-pro and feedbee gave me a good buildup and as for the mega bee I'm going to put another patty in today and I'll see what kind of build up I have this spring you can buy them in small quantities but I always buy them in bulk bee-pro comes in 50 lb bags feedbee in 44 lb bags and mega bee comes in 40 lbs bags Ill mix 5 gal. of syrup I use hfcs (pro-sweet 50) because the patties don't seem to get rock hard like they do when I mix sugar and water I guess it's because its cooked and the sugar water isn't I don't know for sure but anyway I mix 5 gal. of syrup with 5 lbs of irradiated pollen mix it real well and let it sit for an hour or so just to let it soak in some syrup then I mix in a bag of pollen substitute
it gets real thick real fast so I slowly add in small amounts 1 more gallon of syrup as I mix everything then I let it sit overnight .Thats 1 bag of mix ,5 lbs. of pollen and 6 gallons of syrup thats what I use with bee-pro I make 123 patties that are roughly about a pound it cost me about .62 cents a patty , with feedbee I made 117 patties at .93 cents each and with mega bee I made 112 patties at.99 cents per patty I get all my stuff from Dadant and sons or Mann lake I live between them about 45 min from ea. I know everybody has their own mix and their own ideas but this is what works for me hope it helps
metzelplex
Where do you live Actually. Dadant is about 30 min from me an Mann Lake is about 1 hr from me. I live in Hanford Ca. Which is 30 min south of Fresno and 1 hr to hr and half from Bakersfield. It would bee :) nice to meet someone from my neck of the woods
Angi
-
[Dadant is about 30 min from me an Mann Lake is about 1 hr from me.]
If I lived that close to bee supply houses my operation would be run totally different.
-I'd also be totally broke, as I'd spend every last dime there too!
I don't think some folks realize just how fortunate they are sometimes.
If I order from Mann Lake in a pinch, I have to get my orders out of MN.
My shipping is often half the product price.
Dadant is almost the same case. Everyone claims fuel prices :roll:
Perhaps I need to goto work and tell my boss I need to charge him an arrival fuel surcharge? :roll:
You'd be surprised how long a wish list you can run up over winter with hopes of buying everything at the big spring beekeeping meetings (where vendors usually will bring you product if ordered ahead of time).
-
Yes where I live anything I want the shipping is almost half the cost and then add the taxes. Tony
-
i can understand your concern about feeding the dry sugar/pollen mixture when the weather is bad. when i have to feed a lot of colonies this mixture, i have the top feeder on and just pour it on the feeder, for that matter the same goes for the side feeders or even just on a small plate. let me know how your concoction works.
-
Ha, speaking of that wish list, hee, hee. I wish that one of my deep supers didn't have that warped side, it just doesn't fit together right. I nailed it together and whole smackers!!! Beautiful day in this great life. Cindi
-
What has saved my hide and allowed me to actually buy enough stuff for 2 hives was being that Dadant and Mann Lake is so close. So far I have not been to Mann Lake yet. But will be going there soon to buy some of the 15% Pollen Pattys with the pollen sub. With saving shipping and also picking up a few returns at half price I was able to get 2 hives for about 1 price. This is the only way I could have gotten 2 hives. And I will also be able to have a few extra med and shallow supers as an extra in case it is needed for a heavy flow year.
Angi
-
Mann lake is about three and one half hours from hanford are you sure you are not going to one of the many warehouse dealers that cary some of the bulk items -and dose not mantain stock or has a show room-RDY-B
-
Cindi , If you would like to post a picture of that super with the warped side , maybe one of us wood-techs could suggest a possible remedy.
Beside some folks have hinted that I have a warped side , so I feel empathetic.
---Burl---
-
This actually might have to go to a new post but, has anyone experienced an explosive growth of small hive beetle when you use a pollen patty? Last spring I put them in to 2 new hives and after about a week there was a lot of SHB all over them and the inner cover. It makes me a little nervous to do it again this year. Thanks
DennisB
-
thats a good point -lucky for many they have not goten established in california -migratory keepers get upset about the check pionts at pollination time but they are a serious threat -RDY-B
-
Burl, I could do that, but I am unsure if there would be any remedy, period. The warping is so slight, on one corner, it is actually hardly even noticeable, until you put on the lid, then it just doesn't fit very well.
I need several Imirie shims made for this season for feeding. So my Husband said that he would cut the super down into several shims, so it is not worth the bother of trying to fix it. So, I probably won't put the picture on the forum, this box has a great plan for its life, hee, hee. Thanks anyways, Burl, have a greatest of days. Cindi
-
Mann lake is about three and one half hours from hanford are you sure you are not going to one of the many warehouse dealers that cary some of the bulk items -and dose not mantain stock or has a show room-RDY-B
Mann Lake Bakersfield office. That is where I am going. I have called and placed a pick up order.
Angi
You are talking about the one up north and that one is more like 5 hrs from me.
-
you can do a pick up at many of the distributors -there are many -even have them in canada and in mexico-there is only one office with a show room that is owned by manlike -the distributors are usually large keepers that participate in the distribution of some products -mostly feed and syrup - dosent really matter you are going to get what you want -it is just such a good time when you go to the store in wood land they make you feel right at home -and the show room has every thing in the catalog -candle molds and such i spend plenty when i visit and can count on seeing many keepers -but like i said it dosent matter you will have a field day any- way-RDY-B
-
How far are they fRom Chico? I have to go in April to pick up my 4lb package bes from C&F Konhen sp) and Sons. Would be nice to run there. NO the Mann Lake office is in there book. It is one of 3 in California. Hughson CA, Woodland CA, And Bakersfield. They said they have a few things in there office for show. LIke books and Samples of foundations and frames and Hives. And equipment. Our Dadant office is just like the Mann Lake office in Bakersfield. Just a huge warehouse with a a bunch of stuff from the company that you can go and pick up. I have a few things I am going to get from them so it would be a money saver since I have to go and pick up a Tom Turkey for a friend of mine. We get taxes back Feb 1st and I have another 1000.00 to spend on bee stuff. Then that will make my total to about 2500.00 for a 2 hive start up plus extra supers. Plus honey and comb honey supplies plus bees. Then i am set till next season.
Angi
-
you will drive past on your way to chico-the warehouse in hugson is actually the beekmans place i used to pick up things there before they opened the show room in woodland- the beekmans are a big outfit in the honey circle also-and if you go on the right day they have honey tasting and mead tasting at there facility -dont know about who is doing the warehouse for mannlake in bakers field -remember moderation- on the spending that is ;) RDY-B
-
Ha Ha I like being prepaired. And if I have a little to much stuff then that is ok. I rater have to much then not enough. I like Mead with the spice packet and warmed OMG that is some great stuff. I plan on trying my hand at it. What is the addy of the Beekmans place? I would love to go if we are already going to have to be in that area. Heck we have to make a weekend out of it because it is over a 5 hr drive for us. When we went to Roseville we left here at 4am for a 7am auction call. Now I am looking for top feeders.
Angi