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Author Topic: Long Langstroth help  (Read 5473 times)

Offline NeilTheCop

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Long Langstroth help
« on: August 13, 2015, 08:44:45 pm »
After seeing Mr. Vardaman's (capt44) long Langstroth I decided to draw up some plans to build my own. But after a few hours checking out the plans on the internet I realized that there is no standardization for construction dimensions for any Langstroth hive box.
Assuming 1/2" thick 'ears' on the frame, some plans call for cutting the frame rest rabbit 7/8" deep to give a gap of 3/8" from the top of the frame to the top of the box. This will make the bottom of the frame pretty much level with the bottom of the box. Others call for a rabbit 9/16" deep to give 1/16" from the top of the frame to the top of the box, but giving the 3/8" beespace at the bottom.
I know that if you ask 5 beeks the same question you will get 6 different answers, but I thought I would give it a try. What do you use in your hives, beespace at the top or bottom?  :wink:
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Offline swflcpl

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Re: Long Langstroth help
« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2015, 09:46:44 pm »
Splitting the bee space between top and bottom works when you are stacking. I would think if there will be no stacking of honey boxes on top why wouldn't you give them beespace on all four sides, figuring out what kind of top it will have and calculating any gap or raised area in getting to the 3/8" for the bees on the top side?


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Offline texanbelchers

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Re: Long Langstroth help
« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2015, 11:15:59 pm »
The standard for the frame rest rabbet is 5/8" depth.  If you plan on using supers, that is your best bet.  You'll want to use a canvass inner cover on the frames  for no bee space or build up the inner cover to provide normal bee space.

The alternative, of you are not planning on supers, is to make a deeper 7/8" rabbet and flat inner covers.  This provides the space above and is much easier construction.

Since it is a long hive you can make it deeper than a normal box.  The bees may or may not extend the comb below the frames a little, but that won't hurt anything.  It does give them some space to hang out.  Use full 12" or 8" nominal lumber so you don't have to rip it.

I definately recommend several smaller inner covers instead of a single unit so you can work on a section at a time.  I tried several migration covers, but they let in way too much water.  There are a bunch of discussions of these online, so do some searches for info.

I like the idea of the long lang.  I built a long screened bottom that ended up a failure.  For several reasons I ultimately ended up moving to 8 frame deeps and cutting my long hives down.

Offline capt44

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Re: Long Langstroth help
« Reply #3 on: August 14, 2015, 01:19:48 am »
I have my long hive set up in my bee yard here at the house.
I made my frame rest 7/8 inch x 3/8 inch to add inner covers.
My long hive will hold 29 deep frames and 2 follower boards.
I have several inner covers so I don't have to expose the whole hive at one time.
I mounted mine on 4x4 post for it wasn't going to be moved once it filled up. (Heavy Booger for sure)
I used 3 1/2 inch x 3/8 inch lag bolts with flat washers screwed into the 4x4 from inside the end of the hive box.
It is solid.
I will post pictures tomorrow of the hive.
The bees love it so far.
Just something for me to play with.
Oh yes I built a gable type top for it so I could feed from the top with a pail or jars of syrup.
Richard Vardaman (capt44)

Offline little john

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Re: Long Langstroth help
« Reply #4 on: August 14, 2015, 05:07:58 am »
My own take on the 'bottom bee-space' vs. 'top bee-space' issue is - it all depends on what you intent to place on top of that box. If it's something hard - like a hard crown-board (inner-cover) or another box, then having a top bee-space helps to prevent the crushing of bees, as well as making the building of crown boards that much simpler - no need then for any spacing battens ...

But - if you're planning on using soft inner covers (only), then the crushing of bees is no longer a major issue, and the soft cover will lie more easily over the top bars when they're more-or-less level with the box top - although I don't think this is uber-essential.

I have been making Long Hives with bee-spaces at both Top and Bottom (the bottom bee-space can be very generous, BTW), but have recently decided to convert over to soft tops for reasons of economy and to simplify manufacture.

All my vertical hives are bottom bee-space (wish they weren't) 'cause that's how they've been commercially manufactured historically, and home-brewing vertical boxes otherwise now, would only cause confusion.

Last year I posted a method of making a Long Hive without plans on a well-known natural beekeeping site, where it was received like the proverbial 'lead balloon', as the use of frames is considered taboo there. I've just uploaded it here as a separate thread, in case there might be one or two ideas there of passing interest ....

LJ





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Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Long Langstroth help
« Reply #5 on: August 14, 2015, 08:54:00 am »
>I realized that there is no standardization for construction dimensions for any Langstroth hive box.

Manufacturers may vary, but there is a standard.  A deep box is supposed to be 9 5/8".  The bottom board is usually reversible with 3/8" and 3/4" sides.  Add that in.  The standard for a frame rest is 5/8" deep and 3/8" wide.  This leaves 1/4" space at the top and 1/8" space at the bottom of the frame (not counting the space the bottom board adds).  This is the standard.  It would be nice if everyone followed it...  A medium is 6 5/8".  A shallow varies a little.  Some are 5 3/4" and some are 5 11/16".  But anything in that range will do.

For building a long deep hive I would make the sides 10 1/2" wide.  I would cut the frame rest rabbet 3/4" deep and 3/8" wide.  This will give a 3/8" beespace at the top and a 1/2" beespace at the bottom.  You could even go another 3/8" deep if you like (10 7/8").  I'd make it 48" long.
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Offline NeilTheCop

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Re: Long Langstroth help
« Reply #6 on: August 15, 2015, 12:08:49 pm »
This gentleman seems to be unhappy with his long hive. May be time to rethink the project :wink:

https://youtu.be/cqPTPJ5lq1E
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Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Long Langstroth help
« Reply #7 on: August 15, 2015, 04:48:57 pm »
It takes some manipulations to get the bees to use all of a long box.  Not like a vertical hive where you can just stack on supers and forget it.  That's why all my long hives are in my home yard and most of my hives are vertical.
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Offline Eric Bosworth

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Re: Long Langstroth help
« Reply #8 on: August 15, 2015, 10:19:21 pm »
Just keep adding empty frames between drawn frames of eggs and brood.
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Offline OldMech

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Re: Long Langstroth help
« Reply #9 on: August 16, 2015, 02:55:53 pm »
Just keep adding empty frames between drawn frames of eggs and brood.

   If the frames have no foundation that will work, if they have foundation it may be considered a barrier and you will one day find queen cells on the side the queen is not. If you use foundation dont split up the brood box.

   A trick I learned in the 70's from my mentor, was to move the entire frame set over one frame...  IE, when you pull the end frame to do a full inspection, pull the next frame and inspect it, place it against the wall and you have the room to pull the next, place it against the side frame etc, when you are done you have a space against the opposite wall to put the first frame you pulled, and you have effectively moved all of your frames over one space. In the course of a spring/summer the frames will move slowly enough that every frame will be what my mentor called "primary" to the bees, and they will draw it and use it..  If the flow dies, trickle feed or stop the rotation. With no flow they will either NOT draw the new frame, or they will use up stored resources in order to get it drawn. 
39 Hives and growing.  Havent found the end of the comfort zone yet.

Offline Eric Bosworth

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Re: Long Langstroth help
« Reply #10 on: August 17, 2015, 09:40:05 pm »
I never use foundation so it hasn't been a problem for me. My hives are filling quite well at the moment. I can smell the honey from quite a ways away if the wind is right. I just hope bears don't smell them.
All political power comes from the barrel of a gun. The communist party must command all the guns; that way, no guns can ever be used to command the party. ---Mao Tse Tung

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote. ---Benjamin Franklin

Offline OldMech

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Re: Long Langstroth help
« Reply #11 on: August 17, 2015, 10:11:20 pm »
Thats the problem Eric. Everyone doesn't use your method, so you kinda need to be generic with info unless you know the little details.
39 Hives and growing.  Havent found the end of the comfort zone yet.

Offline capt44

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Re: Long Langstroth help
« Reply #12 on: August 21, 2015, 12:34:52 am »
I built my langstroth long hive and have it here at the beeyard here at the house.
All the rest are standard 10 frame stackable hives.
Just playing with this long hive and the bee took right to it.
Richard Vardaman (capt44)

 

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