BEEKEEPING LEARNING CENTER > NATURAL & ORGANIC BEEKEEPING METHODS
Planning for year two
Bobbee:
I came to this part of the forum because I want to see how people who don't treat manage it.
It would be interesting to know how many people experienced a first year beekeeping like the first year I had. Both hives absconded.At the moment the idea of a colony of bees that are resistant to varroa is very attractive.
Buying nuc after nuc hoping to get lucky with a colony with good VSH is not a very attractive proposition to me.I have been thinking of ways to better the odds.Almost all of the local beekeepers I have talked to treat
with a surprising number using Apivar.The odds of getting the right bees from them seems pretty slim.So what to do?
I have just had an idea.And by "just had" I mean now, as I am typing.Step one buy a package of bees not a local nuc.Now there is a 60% chance or better that the queen will be superseded so at the same time I can order a Saskatraz queen to replace the queen that the package comes with.
If I remember right the package I can get in late March early April and the Saskatraz Queen at the beginning of June.That gives the queen two months to prove herself.If the queen is proved viable I will have an extra queen.The question the becomes will I be able to pull a frame of brood plus a few nurse bees and start a new "nuc" with the Saskatraz queen? If the queen is not a good egg producer I will have the Saskatraz.
I don't have the experience or knowledge to know if this is a good idea.
The15thMember:
I started with two packages from a local supplier who only treats the bees organically. I had treatment free packages lined up, but they had too many winter losses to sell and so that fell through. I tried just sugar dusting my first year, which is basically the tamest treatment option out there, and I was ALMOST in the same boat as you. I had a colony crash and abscond late in the year, and only by treating the other colony with MAQS was I able to save them. In my area (and I'm under the impression that many people treat around here, although I'm not 100% sure that is true) I don't think doing absolutely NOTHING is a reasonable expectation. I don't want to use chemicals either, preferably not even organic ones, and so I experimented with a trapping comb treatment this year and will continue to do so next year. I can give you the links to the related threads if you are interested in looking at that more in depth.
As far as replacing a package queen, I think there is nothing wrong with doing so. If you'd like to give a specific VSH-type queen a try right off the bat, I don't see why that would be an issue. Remember that package bees are just a bunch of bees and a queen dumped in a package together, the workers aren't really attached to that queen yet at all, which is why supersedures after installing a package are so common. Perhaps just replace the queen in the package with a queen of your choice, or let them get going and then make a split and put the preferred queen in the stronger hive and the non VSH queen in the weaker split and just see what happens. There's ultimately a lot of variations on it, but if you are inclined to try a VSH breed of queen, I don't see why introducing her to a package or a small hive would be an issue.
Bobbee:
--- Quote from: The15thMember on November 03, 2020, 02:05:09 pm ---I started with two packages from a local supplier who only treats the bees organically. I had treatment free packages lined up, but they had too many winter losses to sell and so that fell through. I tried just sugar dusting my first year, which is basically the tamest treatment option out there, and I was ALMOST in the same boat as you. I had a colony crash and abscond late in the year, and only by treating the other colony with MAQS was I able to save them. In my area (and I'm under the impression that many people treat around here, although I'm not 100% sure that is true) I don't think doing absolutely NOTHING is a reasonable expectation. I don't want to use chemicals either, preferably not even organic ones, and so I experimented with a trapping comb treatment this year and will continue to do so next year. I can give you the links to the related threads if you are interested in looking at that more in depth.
As far as replacing a package queen, I think there is nothing wrong with doing so. If you'd like to give a specific VSH-type queen a try right off the bat, I don't see why that would be an issue. Remember that package bees are just a bunch of bees and a queen dumped in a package together, the workers aren't really attached to that queen yet at all, which is why supersedures after installing a package are so common. Perhaps just replace the queen in the package with a queen of your choice, or let them get going and then make a split and put the preferred queen in the stronger hive and the non VSH queen in the weaker split and just see what happens. There's ultimately a lot of variations on it, but if you are inclined to try a VSH breed of queen, I don't see why introducing her to a package or a small hive would be an issue.
--- End quote ---
My greatest concern is if I not so much adding the queen as it is splitting the package of bees after about two months assuming the package queen is good. After 60 days of the queen laying do you think there will be enough of a population to siphon off brood and nurse bees for a second queen?
The15thMember:
--- Quote from: Bobbee on November 03, 2020, 02:23:00 pm ---My greatest concern is if I not so much adding the queen as it is splitting the package of bees after about two months assuming the package queen is good. After 60 days of the queen laying do you think there will be enough of a population to siphon off brood and nurse bees for a second queen?
--- End quote ---
First off, let me say I've never done something like this, so I don't have any hands-on experience, just kind of trying to help you brainstorm. :happy: I guess the point I was trying to make is, why split at all? If you want that VSH queen, just put her in the hive with the package bees instead of the queen they came with. Or, if you want to not waste that package queen, just make a small split (like a frame or 2 of brood and a frame or 2 of stores) off the hive whenever you feel comfortable doing so, put the VSH queen in the full hive, stick the package queen in a nuc/box with a follower board and see what happens with her. Why would it have to be 60 days from the time you got the package?
Bobbee:
This conversation is a great help. In going into detail like this and explaining my ideas to more experienced beekeepers I hope to learn enough to do better next year The problem being a new beekeeper is most of what I know is still book learning. The only practical experience I have had is this past year and that did not end so well.
The 60 days is approximately the time between when I can get the package of bees near the end of March and when I can get the queen.
This year >http://saskatraz.com/< started selling production queens in early June.If however I end up with a good queen in the package then after 60 days when the new queen arrives I might be able to have two small nucs going from one package.If there are enough bees and brood.
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