Spring Time split questions OHIO

[hrtull]

I am slowly trying to convert long lang into standard hives. I am starting second year at keeping. First year hive made it thru Winter in great condition. I opened up hive 2 weeks ago from last November.  It had plenty of honey and several frames of capped brood and tons of bees.  I added 5 frames with no foundations and closed it up. A week ago I inspected and all frames had new comb from full to started.
    I am trying to do a walk away split best I can hoping a new queen with be developed. A week ago  I took 4 frames that were almost full of capped brood (covered with bees also) and a mix of honey and hopefully eggs.   I may be short on honey tho. I provided 1:1 syrup at entry feeder.  It has now been one week and I see little to no activity. Long lang is very active foraging and normal bee stuff. My question are, 1) Is this lack of no activity normal. 2) should I inspect this new split now. 3) If i was light on honey will syrup carry them thru. 4) if not enough eggs were present what will happen. 5} Can the high activity at the long lang be an indicator of what the activity should be at new split.  Also bees have become very defensive. They have escorted me the 120 yards back to the house and a neck full of stingers. Thanks for any replies, HRT

[cao]

1. When you do a split there aren't the number of foragers that there is in the main hive so there won't be as much activity.

2. If it has been a week, I would.  There should be a capped queen cell by now.  If not add a frame of eggs.

3. Syrup will keep the bees alive.  Pollen is necessary for brood rearing.

4. If they don't have eggs present to make a queen cell they will eventually die.

5. The long lang has plenty of foragers therefore lots of activity.  The split has nurse bees raising young and until that is done there won't be as many foragers.

[gww]

Do you know which side of the split the queen is in?
Cheers
gww

[hrtull]

The Queen is in original long lang. I will inspect tomorrow. I suspect I might have been short on eggs and pollen. It did get dark on me and I did get in a rush. Lets assume I add a frame of pollen and eggs because I was short. Will newly emerged bees from capped brood be able to survive on syrup. Also have a bee keeper/supplier a few miles away that sells Queens. I am curious if a new Queen is not successfully established from attempted  split, how long  can split stay Queenless before purchasing a Queen. Thanks for your replies. I will keep you informed on  the progress. HRTULL

[gww]

hrtull
I am new.  I made a split with hopefully the queen and young bees and forgot to even think about pollen.  It has been about four or five days before I saw any flying at the entrance at all.  I believe with serup alone, that it will be ok till the bees get some forager age bees promoted. In my case they still also have to build comb.  I am not yet even sure the queen is in the split or if she got lost in the transfer, I had wind that day and it blew an inner cover over with a fair clump of bees on it.

I think it will be ok and I am waiting for about ten days or so and I will look for proof of the queen laying, If she is, fine and if not, I will add a frame of open brood.  I do believe they would do better and do it faster with some decent stores but believe it will be ok just from feeding.  I do not know how long it takes for workers to turn laying.

I am new so take what I say as what I am trying and not as advice. 

I hope this helps you in some way.
gww

[cao]

>Will newly emerged bees from capped brood be able to survive on syrup.
yes
>how long  can split stay Queenless before purchasing a Queen.
If you continue to add open brood once a week, indefinitely.  If there are eggs on the frame they will make their own queen.  If you have the resources I would add a frame a week until they make their own queen rather then buying one.
If the split fails to raise their own queen or it doesn't make it back from mating, you probably have about 3-4 weeks maybe a little longer before the workers start laying.  That is if you don't do anything.

[hrtull]

I was prepared to make frame inspection in the newly split hive today. When I arrived at the site there was lots of activity. Bees in and out and taking lots of syrup. I know that drone cells were included in brood cells when I made the split.  A few drones were coming and going. Does the activity of drones give any indication of what  is developing in the splitting process or are they just another newly emerged bee doing its routine. I am thinking brood must be hatching and the activity is new bees stretching their wings in around the hive. I did not witness any foraging. The weather is cool, windy and overcast so I thought I would wait for a better day or maybe just leave things be. Not certain if I should do full inspection or let it run its course. What are your opinions and again, thanks for your help, HRTULL

[hrtull]

Inspected new split today. I was pleased to see about 6 queen cells. There was fresh larva , frames loaded with bees with lots of remaining capped brood. There was pollen through out all frames but feel not enough.  I did make a supplement bee pattie from brewers yeast, soy flour and sugar and placed on top of frames. If I understand correctly this pattie material with provide correct nutrients to feed brood rearing.  The bee activity was very busy, it went from none to many in a matter of days. I am trying to attach a screen capture from video of queen cell. Hope it works. I feel thing are proceeding as desired concerning this split.

[cao]

>The bee activity was very busy, it went from none to many in a matter of days.
That's usually what happens.  Bees are getting old enough to go foraging.

>I feel thing are proceeding as desired concerning this split.
Sounds to me that all is good.  I would leave then alone for a couple weeks at least for the queen to hatch, mate and start laying.

[hrtull]

I did the split 28 days ago.  I inspected on April 25th per previous post. I inspected yesterday on the 28th day of split.  Here is what I observed.  Four original frames covered with bees with a mix of a few drones and  mostly full of fed syrup with some foraged pollen. Pollen patties were almost consumed.  There were  2 frames  of drawn comb that were empty and under construction.  I found one of the original empty queen cells  that had  that serrated  end from emergence. I could not visually locate a queen.  The hive was very calm during the inspection.  Last week in Ohio we had cold wet and windy weather and now Summer like condition have arrived. What do you think, another week or two  to determine outcome. I feel like I should stop feeding because of the full frames of syrup.   Also,  can a purchased Queen be introduced in a couple of weeks successfully if split is determined to be queenless. Thanks, HR Tull

[cao]

If you think they have enough nectar/syrup stored than IMO I don't think there is a need to keep feeding.  Just because you didn't see a queen doesn't mean that she wasn't in there.  Some of them really know how to hide.  Also with your wet weather, her mating flights could have been delayed and she could have been out of the hive when you did your inspection.  I would give them another week or two to work things out.
If you don't see signs of a queen after that then either add a frame of brood or consider a new queen.  As long as there aren't laying workers, queens can be introduced anytime.

I try to remember to follow the saying that, if you're not sure what to do it is better to do nothing.  The bees know what to do.

[hrtull]

Thanks CAO, I will take another look in a week.  I could see no signs of workers laying. Also I think after much reading that 28 days would be with perfect conditions to have a new laying Queen. All signs thus far are leaning towards success.  I think I just need to add another dose of patience. Thanks HR Tull

[hrtull]

Inspected hive again today and found the new Queen. Today was the 35th day from start of split. I did not see any new egg laying but often it is hard for me to see under perfect conditions. There appeared to be some capped brood but it was unlike the capped brood that is so obvious. Best description I can give is that it looked like the caps were recessed into cell. If it was pollen it was the exact color of cell caps.  Any ideas, caps or pollen. It did take an hour of hard looking but found her and she sort of parts the water when she walked thru bees. I am adding a super as they have almost filled brood box with comb and capped a lot of my syrup feeding. It appears to be successful. Thought I would share this but curious about capped brood.

[Acebird]

Cells discolored?  I hope it is not EFB.

[hrtull]

It has been 42 days since I split hive. Today performing inspection I was rewarded with 3 frames covered in capped brood. They have also filled out all brood frames with new comb and some honey storage. I am hoping they will now work their way into the super. I am amazed after a week that they completed so much. It has been very interesting and a lot of fun.

[cao]

Congrats. 

[Acebird]

It has been 42 days since I split hive.

Patience works.

[BeeMe]

Thanks for taking us all the way through.  Too often people post and don't follow up so we know how things turn out.  Again thanks for the follow-thru.  I enjoyed it.