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Author Topic: What should I do in this situation .... need a plan quick (queens)  (Read 2543 times)

Offline TheHoneyPump

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Hi all.  Newbee guy to this forum here.  I've been surfing around and this looks to be a quite good forum/site so I finally signed up.   :beemaster:

took a moment to revise, my first draft was quite garbled.  This version is still long but much clearer I think.




Hi all.  Newbee guy to this forum here.  I've been surfing around and this looks to be a quite good forum/site so I finally signed up.

I am not new to beekeeping. I come from a long lineup of multi-generation commercial beekeepers.  However, I have been absent from it for a couple of decades while I went off and explored my other talents.  I have knowledge and experience, but it has been awhile ;)
 
Last year 2016; by chance or some divine fate, I surprisingly was re-entered by a swarm that appeared in the backyard. I pondered a bit, but not for long and soon a couple of old decrepit hive parts were gathered/borrowed, swarm captured and bees happily hived. ?. There you have it, hook set.

That swarm hive was split late summer.  The 2 hives over wintered without my much of a caring which way they would turn out.  Well, darned if they went and overwintered really really really well.  So, there you have it, I guess the bees are telling me that I am getting back into the beekeeping after all this time.

Forwarding into 2017 season, now I do care about the hives.  My short goal for 2017 is to achieve 10 hives by end of August for getting ready to go into winter.  The midterm goal is to make those into splits in spring 2018 making 20 honey producing hives a possibility.  Will decide if to keep going from there.  An aggressive growth with minimal to no capital is in play and have made a great start towards seeing those 20 hives from 1 swarm in 2 years!

I really do not care if I get any honey at all in 2017.  I intend to manage and balance the colonies, leaving all the resources to the bees for winter.  Despite my not wanting to deal with heavy boxes and extracting this year, the bees seem to have other ideas and are actively filling up the super boxes on top anyways.


OK, here is where I am asking for some help. The bees and me are at a pivotal moment that can make or break our goals for this year.  I need some help sorting out what to do with the current situation. If I had quite a few more hives I would put my ol? commercial beekeeper veil on and not be anywhere near as cautious or undecided. Rather, I do not have the numbers, resources are constrained.  Looking at my growto10-17 goal; I cannot afford to just zip/wap/bang.


The timeline is short so whatever you think of will be helpful. 
Current lineup is as follows.  Remember the end goal is 10 queenrite colonies, functioning hives, by end of August.  The bee yard looks like:

H1: queenrite, 2 deeps brood, med strength, 1 deep honey
H2: queenrite, 2 deeps brood, med strength, 1 deep honey
H3: queenrite, 1 deeps brood, low-med strength, 1 deep honey

H4: queenrite, 1 deeps brood, med-hi strength, 2 deep honey, this is split S1 that has reared laying queen June 2017.
H5: queenrite, 1 deeps brood, med-hi strength, 2 deep honey, this is split S2 that has reared laying queen June 2017. 
H6: queenrite, 1 deeps brood, low strength, 2 deep honey, this is split S3 that has reared laying queen June 2017.

S4: queen less split. 1 deeps brood, med strength, 2 deep honey, first reared queen failed/disappeared during mating week.  New eggs/brood donated and now has 6 queen cells drawn with 1 capped July 29.

S5:  virgin queen, 1 deeps brood, med strength, 1 deep honey, VQueen is flying and mating right now July 28-Aug2.


Available / ordered
 - 1 only, empty 5 frame nuc set
 - 2 caged queens ordered, delivery/receive is August 2nd
 - multiple deeps and frames hive equipment to create more splits colonies

What is the best way to manipulate this, to achieve 10 colonies? In a couple of days when the queens arrive?  I cannot decide which to do.  I am thinking one of the following, there may be something else I have not thought of.  Please let me know what you think,

Option #1:
- July 31, remove the queen cells and 2 frames of bees from S4 and transfer them into a 5 frame nuc (N1).  Basically pull them out of the hive and send them into a smaller space to finish raising a queen which hopefully hatches mates and started laying approx 14-18 days from now.  Shake out all the rest of the bees.  Effectively move some bees and kill the rest of the hive, for now.  Redistribute the resources to the other hives.
- July 31, goto the 2 strongest queen rite hives and pull out resources to make 2 new splits. Those 2 splits will be queenless for 2 days. Call these two new splits S6 and S7
- on August 2nd, install the 2 new queens into S6 and S7.
- check back with S5 about Aug 3 to see if she has made it back to the hive, successfully mated, and started laying.
- leave the nuc with queen cells, N1, alone and unattended.  Write them off as a bunch of dinks, who may or may not become queen rite.  This nuc is the backup plan for S5 if she is lost or eaten or ends up defective.  If S5 is good and the N1 dinks raise a good queen, then move them back into a full hive body with a boost of bees and resources from the other hives to turn it into a full hive the winter. 
That makes 10, yay!

Option #2
- July 31 setup one new split by taking resources from 2 of the strongest queenrite.  i.e. rob two hives to make one split S6.  This will not cut those colonies as much.  Give this split one of the new queens on August 2nd.
- July 31 draw resources across all remaining hives to makeup a 5 frame nuc.  On August 2nd put one of the new queens into the nuc N1.  Monitor the nuc, removing eggs/brood as she fills them and move those frames to boost the other hives.
- Leave the queen cells in the queen less split S4, along with all the old bees. They are gathering a lot of honey and pollen at moment.  Cross fingers that they are successful on this second run by end of August before they all die off and the hive goes completely dead.
- End of August, move the quickly growing colony in the nuc N1 into a full hive body.
That makes 10, yay!

Option #3
- July 31, remove all BUT ONE of the queen cells from S4 and transfer them with 2 frames of bees into a 5 frame nuc (N1).  Basically removing the cells to a rearing/mating nuc and leave S4 with one capped cell to raise.  If all goes well both the N1 and S4 will have hatches, mating, and laying queens in 20 days.
- July 31, goto the 2 strongest queen rite hives and pull out resources to make 2 new splits. Those 2 splits will be queenless for 2 days. Call these two new splits S6 and S7
- on August 2nd, install the 2 new queens into S6 and S7.
- check back with S5 about Aug 3 to see if she has made it back to the hive, successfully mated, and started laying.
- leave the nuc with queen cells, N1 and S4 alone and unattended.  Write them both off as a bunch of dinks, who may or may not become queen rite.  - if they one is successful, that make 10, yay!  If they both make it, that gives 11 yayyay. 
- if S4 and N1 fail, recombine at the end of August with another purchased queen.That makes 10, yay!


***************************

For fun, and rambling on extending the post ?? Here is the history of these colonies, ""How did we get here?""

- May 2017. the 2 over wintered hives were booming.  I split those into 4, and introduced 2 new bought mated queens.  The result was 4 hives single deeps.
- mid-June 2017. 1.5 brood cycles in.  All 4 hives are booming.  I have no equipment so have to time around work with a trip to go get/borrow some boxes.  One hive got away on me before I could get boxes.  I found it queen less with 2/3rd the amount of bees from the previous week and swarm cells on the bottoms of 3 frames.  So I had 4 colonies but only 3 queenrite.  I decided instead of letting the colonies amass to go ahead and split the 3 queen rite hives and the queenless.  I did this on July 1st.  Result, 3 queenrite colonies cut back, 5 queenless splits each having either cells taken from the swarm hive or fresh eggs from a queen rite hive to rear a queen. The goal at the time to go for 8 colonies queen rite by end of July. 

- Forward to July 18.  4 of the 5 queenlless splits have emerged virgin queens running around in them (I saw, laid eyes on each of them). To keep track lets call them S1 S2 S3 S4.  The 5th split S5, did not have cells or a queen.  It looks like they torn down the swarm cell instead of finishing it.  I put a new fresh frame of eggs and brood in from one of the queen rites.
-  July 20, I was blessed with divine bee vision to personally observed 2 queens coming out onto the landing board and taking flight.  And saw them return 3 to 5 minutes later.
-  July 23, S1 S2 S3 have laying queens! Yahoo!.   S5 has 2 capped queen cells, good!.  S4 queen is still there walking around but not laying, hmmmm.
-  July 26, S1 S2 S3 are well on their way.  S5 has a new virgin running around, she is fast and hot!  S4 queen is gone, nothing.  I take a frame with some fresh eggs and put them into S4.  2 days later 6 queen cells are being drawn.  So that test is affirmative.  S4 is still queen less.
-  July 28, checked the calendar and held up against my growto10-17 goal.  To make it, I need S5 to mate and get laying like real soon.  I have observed processional bee activity at the doorway but I was not blessed with seeing her.  The weather is really good, I am sure she will be fine if she doesn't get grabbed by a wasp or dragon fly when she goes out.  S4 has one capped queen cell and the others a day or two behind. 
- July 29, I decide to order a mated queen to be received August 1st.  I went ahead and ordered 2 new queens.

So here I am at July 30.  I have 6 colonies with laying queens.  1 colony S5 with a ripe virgin making mating flights.  1 colony S4 which has been queen less for at least a month but has raised one queen that was lost during mating period and is now raising a second set of cells.  Also have 2 new mated queens ordered and due on August 2nd.

I guess I am wondering what is the best course of action to give the best results with what is on hand.
 - a hive with multiple queen cells
 - 2 new caged queens
 - wanting to increase numbers in this scenario.  Do not want to reduce or combine if at all possible.


Sorry for the long post.  Wracking my brain on this and am probably have the options scrambled. I do not have much time to get sorted out.  The cells are ripening, the queens are coming, the bees are waiting, and I need to decide what equipment I need to gather to get setup and ready.
Thanks!
THP

PS:  location is Canada.  It is midsummer here, right at peak of flow.  Long hot days 22 - 26 degC with 16 hours of daylight.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2017, 03:17:53 pm by TheHoneyPump »
When the lid goes back on, the bees will spend the next 3 days undoing most of what the beekeeper just did to them.

Offline tycrnp

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Re: What should I do in this situation .... need a plan quick (queens)
« Reply #1 on: July 31, 2017, 12:38:00 am »
What's the situation?

Offline TheHoneyPump

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Re: What should I do in this situation .... need a plan quick (queens)
« Reply #2 on: July 31, 2017, 12:53:18 am »
Just revised, sorry for the temporary blank.  Situation is I want to make a minimum of 3 new hives from:
 - 2 caged queens
 - 1 dink hive with 6 queen cells in it.  it is on its second go at raising a queen.  Has enough bees to do it, but they are getting old and will probably be dropping off before new brood from a new queen reaches emergent stage.
 - 7 other queen rite hives in the yard of various strengths, 4 of which have newly mated queens who have only been laying for a week.
 - enough resources across the hives in the yards to support up to 2x full size 10 frame deep splits and/or 1x 5 frame deep, or some combination.

Need some collecting thoughts and input as to the best arrangement/manipulations to achieve the goal.
When the lid goes back on, the bees will spend the next 3 days undoing most of what the beekeeper just did to them.

Offline TheHoneyPump

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Re: What should I do in this situation .... need a plan quick (queens)
« Reply #3 on: July 31, 2017, 01:05:02 am »
Option #4
....
« Last Edit: July 31, 2017, 02:16:28 am by TheHoneyPump »
When the lid goes back on, the bees will spend the next 3 days undoing most of what the beekeeper just did to them.

Offline texanbelchers

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Re: What should I do in this situation .... need a plan quick (queens)
« Reply #4 on: July 31, 2017, 02:58:35 pm »
Not too many replies.  I would shoot for your Option 3 adding a shake of nurse bees before the new queens emerge. I'm in a completely different environment and time schedule, so someone up there may have better input.  I've seen new queens superseded by adding bees too quickly, so immediately after they are laying I would boost with capped brood instead of bees.  If you don't get a mated queen, shake them into another hive and consolidate.  Once you have laying queens you'll need to re-evaluate, balance and prep for winter.

Offline TheHoneyPump

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Re: What should I do in this situation .... need a plan quick (queens)
« Reply #5 on: July 31, 2017, 11:34:58 pm »
I probably just put too much info in the post for folks to digest, hence few replies.

I am going with option #3 with an addition feature ... I am also going to put together a queen castle, 4 bank x 2 frames ea, at the same time.  So I guess that means I am going with option #4.
Queens arrive tomorrow, got some equipment to build and setup in the morning.

When the lid goes back on, the bees will spend the next 3 days undoing most of what the beekeeper just did to them.

Offline TheHoneyPump

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Re: What should I do in this situation .... need a plan quick (queens)
« Reply #6 on: August 15, 2017, 09:26:59 pm »
As a follow-up.
I executed option 3.  All are doing well except the nuc, 3 cells emerged in there, all 3 queens gone/lost.  The nuc is queen less.  All others are doing very well now.  Result:  10 good hives with laying queens and 1 nuc soon to be dumped out in the grass.
When the lid goes back on, the bees will spend the next 3 days undoing most of what the beekeeper just did to them.

Offline texanbelchers

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Re: What should I do in this situation .... need a plan quick (queens)
« Reply #7 on: August 15, 2017, 10:29:28 pm »
I love it when a plan comes together... :cool:

 

anything