Author Topic: Are Africanized Bees Is South America So Africanized?? (Read 3032 times)

Ben Framed · « **on:** June 20, 2018, 09:43:54 pm »

As we know, the Africanized honey bee originated in South America due to an experiment gone wrong. Lately I have been searching YouTube looking for different ideas on different types of pollen traps. I have found several interesting videos from South America, showing how these folks do things. The one thing that I have noticed, is the "Killer Bees" there do not seem so "Killer" in the videos that I have watched. These videos are from different parts of South America and not one of the videos show what has been described as Killer Bees. In fact, they seem pretty gentle in comparison to some of the documentaries that has been show in the last few years. Since the Killers supposedly take over tame hives everywhere they go. Now my question, why are these bees not going crazy trying to kill every moving creature in the Beekeeper's videos? These are common , hard working Beekeepers, some of the videos seem to be of larger operations. These bees don't seem hard to work at all!! Remember folks, these videos are from the areas of the world where the heart of the problem started!! ??? Why are they gentle? Have we been dooped? Has the wool pulled over our eyes? Have the Africanized bees been slowly been breeding with tame bees long enough they the wild is fizzled out? Thanks, Phillip Hall. "Ben Framed"

BeeMaster2 · « **Reply #1 on:** June 20, 2018, 10:11:52 pm »

The bees you saw were Africanized Honey Bees. Beekeeper?s in South America have had been to learn how to work with AHB. Years ago at bee college a Dr of entomology showed us a video of bees in SA that we?re making large amounts of propolis and they showed them working the bees like we do but in full suits. I asked th Dr the same thing you are asking. He explained that if you know how to work them they can be worked and kept calm. He said when they get new beeks he shows them how to work a large hive. Then he has the students work a small hive. Almost every time they are run out of the apiary.
Jim

Acebird · « **Reply #2 on:** June 20, 2018, 10:34:28 pm »

LOL if you are like Jim, you can stand being peppered with stings the bees appear to be calm. It is the beekeeper that makes the show.

Ben Framed · « **Reply #3 on:** June 20, 2018, 10:55:35 pm »

That is encouraging Jim. At least there is hope in education even if the rascals make it to North Mississippi. Are things good in your area of Florida? I enjoyed the topic that you placed in the cutout section with the large pine tree. I noticed that you was only wearing your jacket. What is the forecast of the Africanized progress in there northward migration?

@ Ace, moving to Florida may be ok on you after all!! You will have Jim in your new home state to take the peppers and you can step in after they have cooled off 😊😁.. But seriously, being this new strain can be handled, as Jim explained, taught to the keeper how to handle, that should give all of us hope. Maybe there is some folks down in Florida that will teach you how to handle them without riling them up. Best of luck...

Phillip

BeeMaster2 · « **Reply #4 on:** June 20, 2018, 11:19:35 pm »

Phillip,
The AHBs have not moved north of I-4 since they came here in, I think, 2008. We do not know why, but they stay south of I-4.
When you have AHB hives, you cannot have the hives close together. You cannot use pallets.
When one hive goes hot, the hive next to it will also go hot and the bees darn near empty out on the problem. If the hives were located like our commercial hives typically are, a whole apiary will go hot. Not a nice scene.
If you try to do a cutout on a AHB hive and you do not know what you are doing, you can get people stung as far away as 350 feet. They do not have to bee with in sight of the hive.
Jim

Ben Framed · « **Reply #5 on:** June 20, 2018, 11:35:43 pm »

Quote from: sawdstmakr on June 20, 2018, 11:19:35 pm

Phillip,
The AHBs have not moved north of I-4 since they came here in, I think, 2008. We do not know why, but they stay south of I-4.
When you have AHB hives, you cannot have the hives close together. You cannot use pallets.
When one hive goes hot, the hive next to it will also go hot and the bees darn near empty out on the problem. If the hives were located like our commercial hives typically are, a whole apiary will go hot. Not a nice scene.
If you try to do a cutout on a AHB hive and you do not know what you are doing, you can get people stung as far away as 350 feet. They do not have to bee with in sight of the hive.
Jim

Jim, I find this all very interesting as well as educational. Especially the Africanized bees staying south of I-4 part. Any good theories why? 10 years and no forward progress is wonderful!! I'm Sorry for you folks that are in the hot zones south of I-4... Are you guys and gals learning to work the Africanized bees ok? Thanks, Phillip Hall

Ben Framed · « **Reply #6 on:** June 20, 2018, 11:40:21 pm »

What about y'all in Texas and Arizona. Are you having many problems coping with the new methods of handling the Africanized Bees? Any folks from other states dealing with the Africanized bees? How are things working out for y'all?
Thanks Phillip

BeeMaster2 · « **Reply #7 on:** June 20, 2018, 11:56:25 pm »

Quote from: Ben Framed on June 20, 2018, 11:35:43 pm

Quote from: sawdstmakr on June 20, 2018, 11:19:35 pm
Phillip,
The AHBs have not moved north of I-4 since they came here in, I think, 2008. We do not know why, but they stay south of I-4.
When you have AHB hives, you cannot have the hives close together. You cannot use pallets.
When one hive goes hot, the hive next to it will also go hot and the bees darn near empty out on the problem. If the hives were located like our commercial hives typically are, a whole apiary will go hot. Not a nice scene.
If you try to do a cutout on a AHB hive and you do not know what you are doing, you can get people stung as far away as 350 feet. They do not have to bee with in sight of the hive.
Jim

Jim, I find this all very interesting as well as educational. Especially the Africanized bees staying south of I-4 part. Any good theories why? 10 years and no forward progress is wonderful!! I'm Sorry for you folks that are in the hot zones south of I-4... Are you guys and gals learning to work the Africanized bees ok? Thanks, Phillip Hall

Due to AHBs, many communities made laws forbidding bees. This caused voids that the AHBs we?re taking over.
The state of Florida took control and made laws that said that they controlled bees, not cities or counties.
This has seriously helped increase the number of domestic hives and reduce AHBs.
Jim

Bush_84 · « **Reply #8 on:** June 21, 2018, 12:21:55 am »

Is there an article or topic dedicated to tips and methods of working ahb hives?

moebees · « **Reply #9 on:** June 21, 2018, 03:04:19 pm »

This isn't in south america but in africa. Kind of a long video so skip to about 6 min in if you want to see them working the bees.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPoDgrbZakk

GSF · « **Reply #10 on:** June 21, 2018, 03:07:20 pm »

Take this with a grain of salt since I have zero experience with AHB. It seems I heard or read something that said once they moved in an area and got established they were far less hostile.

Ben Framed · « **Reply #11 on:** June 21, 2018, 03:10:52 pm »

Quote from: moebees on June 21, 2018, 03:04:19 pm

This isn't in south america but in africa. Kind of a long video so skip to about 6 min in if you want to see them working the bees.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPoDgrbZakk

Good research Moe, but I am thinking that these African bees mixed with Europe bees was the experiment which went wrong and changed everything. Are these bees in the video of that type? Did they do the same thing in Africa? Thanks, Phillip

moebees · « **Reply #12 on:** June 21, 2018, 03:18:32 pm »

Quote from: Ben Framed on June 21, 2018, 03:10:52 pm

Quote from: moebees on June 21, 2018, 03:04:19 pm
This isn't in south america but in africa. Kind of a long video so skip to about 6 min in if you want to see them working the bees.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPoDgrbZakk

Good research Moe, but I am thinking that these African bees mixed with Europe bees was the experiment which went wrong and changed everything. Are these bees in the video of that type? Did they do the same thing in Africa? Thanks, Phillip

You are correct that the africanized bees we have now came from the so called experiment in the 1950's when african bees were brought to south american (Brazil) and mixed with European bees. The bees in this video are purely african as far as I know but that is an assumption on my part. Since the discussion is about working africanized bees I thought this an interesting video showing what it is like to work african bees.

Ben Framed · « **Reply #13 on:** June 21, 2018, 03:26:39 pm »

Quote from: moebees on June 21, 2018, 03:18:32 pm

Quote from: Ben Framed on June 21, 2018, 03:10:52 pm
Quote from: moebees on June 21, 2018, 03:04:19 pm
This isn't in south america but in africa. Kind of a long video so skip to about 6 min in if you want to see them working the bees.

Good research Moe, but I am thinking that these African bees mixed with Europe bees was the experiment which went wrong and changed everything. Are these bees in the video of that type? Did they do the same thing in Africa? Thanks, Phillip

You are correct that the africanized bees we have now came from the so called experiment in the 1950's when african bees were brought to south american (Brazil) and mixed with European bees. The bees in this video are purely african as far as I know but that is an assumption on my part. Since the discussion is about working africanized bees I thought this an interesting video showing what it is like to work african bees.

Yep, I thought that is what you meant and good research on your part in finding this video Moe. I will check it out first chance. . I just read GFS comment and that rang a bell with me. Now I remember seeing a video about one of the Islands where the Africanized bees reaked havoc there the first few years but slowly seemed to have less and less incidence. I hope I can find it. If so I will try and post it .

Ben Framed · « **Reply #14 on:** June 21, 2018, 03:31:09 pm »

I didn't find the video but I did find this. ( Genomic study explores evolution of gentle ?killer bees? in Puerto Rico ) Interesting article

Acebird · « **Reply #15 on:** June 21, 2018, 05:23:42 pm »

Quote from: moebees on June 21, 2018, 03:04:19 pm

This isn't in south america but in africa. Kind of a long video so skip to about 6 min in if you want to see them working the bees.

Gees, I watched the video and they sure didn't seem like killer bees to start. I think their method of handling the bees could be improved upon. I am surprised they don't get more broken comb with all that rough handling. You can't slap bees around like that without killing thousands of bees. And if your going to smash thousands of bees right next to the hive well then yeah you are bound to get covered in defensive bees. What would you expect?

Bush_84 · « **Reply #16 on:** June 22, 2018, 04:44:10 am »

Keep in mind that there are different races of bees in Africa. There?s not just one type of bee. So just because they are from Africa doesn?t make them anything like AHB like we see in the south.

Hops Brewster · « **Reply #17 on:** June 22, 2018, 11:33:58 am »

I think that it is important we don't equate African bees with our Africanized honey bees or, what we refer to as AHB. The AHB are hybridized European and African strains. The hybrids are the ones that get all the bad press.

I have read several posts on this forum and others that make the observation that hybridized bees tend to be more aggressive than non-hybrids. This has even been observed when crossing different European bee races.

Also IMO, it does our hobby/profession no good service to call AHB 'killer' bees. I see that as a tag line the media has used to promote hysterical ignorance. Please let us refrain from referring to them as such (even though it has been true in some cases).

PS but I must say, those Kenyan bees in the video are hotter than I care to have in my suburban neighborhood. Hats off to those guys!

Ben Framed · « **Reply #18 on:** June 22, 2018, 05:42:13 pm »

Quote from: Hops Brewster on June 22, 2018, 11:33:58 am

I think that it is important we don't equate African bees with our Africanized honey bees or, what we refer to as AHB. The AHB are hybridized European and African strains. The hybrids are the ones that get all the bad press.

I have read several posts on this forum and others that make the observation that hybridized bees tend to be more aggressive than non-hybrids. This has even been observed when crossing different European bee races.

Also IMO, it does our hobby/profession no good service to call AHB 'killer' bees. I see that as a tag line the media has used to promote hysterical ignorance. Please let us refrain from referring to them as such (even though it has been true in some cases).

PS but I must say, those Kenyan bees in the video are hotter than I care to have in my suburban neighborhood. Hats off to those guys!

I understand and agree with you hops, Africanized hybrids is a fine description as far as I'm concerned. I put killer bees in quotetaion marks as quotes from several of the documentaries. As I ask about the "Killer bees" from South America which didn't seem so "Killer" to me, from the videos that I watched from those countries. Also, their is a guy from Arizona that has a YouTube channel called killer Bee Guy. One of the Africanized documentaries was actually done fearureing him in Arizona. I bet he could tell us a lot. I did notice that some of the hives that he gets rid of seem to be not so wild also. Anyone else ever watched some of his videos?

beepro · « **Reply #19 on:** June 22, 2018, 08:25:00 pm »

Several summer ago I watched the you tube vids on African men working these
AHB hives. It made me think twice before working with any kind of aggressive bees again. They were
completely covered with bees while wearing thick cotton bee suits. It will take them a long while before they
can take off their suits. It all depends on how africanized are the local bees.