Re-queening from a nuc

[Aroc]

I have a decent hive that I?m pretty sure is queenless.  There are no eggs or brood whatsoever.  I believe she swarmed and a queen never developed.  I purchased a queen with the idea I wanted to re-queen this hive since it tends to be a bit hot.  Not fun to deal with.

I discovered the swarm issue last week so I was reluctant to just add the new queen.  I put her in a nuc where she is doing just fine. 

The original hive still has no eggs.  I?m going to assume there is no queen. I want to put the queen from the nuc in there.

Question is what?s the best way to do this?  Should I catch her, put her in a cage and introduce her as a store bought queen?

I was thinking of just combining her with the frames she?s on now but really don?t want to add another box on top and have brood on the top box.  Is it possible to put her in the middle with newspaper on both top and bottom?

Thanks for the input

[moebees]

First are you sure you have waited long enough to establish there is no queen?  It can take up to a month to raise a new queen have her get mated and start laying. 

If it has been long enough I would think a newspaper above and below could work but have never done it myself.  Why not have the nuc on top? 

What size nuc is it and are you adding it to 10 frame boxes?   

The other option would be to introduce with a push in cage but since she is laying and has frames of bees and brood the combine is probably better option.  I would definitely not put her in a cage and do a candy release.  She is a laying queen and more likely to be accepted in that state than if you make her a non-laying queen and put her in without any of her brood or bees.   Just make sure the hive your combining with is really queenless.  People often assume queenless too soon.

[Aroc]

I was in 7 days ago and there were no eggs at that time.  Figured from that time I?d give her at least 4 days to return a mated queen. 

Still no indication of any eggs.  My fear is waiting too long and getting a laying worker.

[moebees]

Laying workers take awhile.  You have time.   You can give them a frame with open brood and that will stop laying workers.  If they make a queen cell it will also tell you they are queenless.

[beepro]

If this queen is a strong queen then I would just put her entire box with bees and all on top of this queen less hive.  I've never
use newspaper before.  So if they want a laying queen then they will accept her.   Make sure that the queen right box have more
bees than the queen less hive.  This will make acceptance less complicated.

[Aroc]

That?s the problem.  The queenless hives is huge.  Like 4 boxes.  The queen I want to add is in a nuc.

[Waveeater]

What did you decide to do or have you yet?

[Aroc]

What did you decide to do or have you yet?

Weather here is real crappy.  Cold and rain for next couple of days. 

I think I?m going to put a frame of young open brood in to see if they start any QC?s.  Once I?m sure there isn?t a queen, I will do a paper combine on the top. If everything works like I?d like I?ll just move the frames down to a lower box and take unused ones out. 

[cao]

I think I?m going to put a frame of young open brood in to see if they start any QC?s.  Once I?m sure there isn?t a queen, I will do a paper combine on the top. If everything works like I?d like I?ll just move the frames down to a lower box and take unused ones out. 

If the queen is doing well in the nuc, why move her?  If you take a frame of eggs from the queen in the nuc and they start a new queen you get her genetics and you still have her in a nuc.  If they don't, they could have a queen and would be risky to combine. 

[Michael Bush]

>Question is what?s the best way to do this? 

I just take the frame with the queen and her bees on it and put it in the queenless hive.  A queen who is in the process of laying, and is with her bees, is readily accepted.  This was Brother Adam's standard method and it's what I do.

[moebees]

>Question is what?s the best way to do this? 

I just take the frame with the queen and her bees on it and put it in the queenless hive.  A queen who is in the process of laying, and is with her bees, is readily accepted.  This was Brother Adam's standard method and it's what I do.

That's assuming you want the nuc to raise a queen or add a queen to it.  Otherwise you have some extra frames of bees left with no purpose.  I think that is why he was talking about doing the combine although I could be wrong.   Not disagreeing with your advice Michael, just saying that unless you have some other use for the nuc you might as well put them all in.

[Aroc]

I think I?m going to put a frame of young open brood in to see if they start any QC?s.  Once I?m sure there isn?t a queen, I will do a paper combine on the top. If everything works like I?d like I?ll just move the frames down to a lower box and take unused ones out. 

If the queen is doing well in the nuc, why move her?  If you take a frame of eggs from the queen in the nuc and they start a new queen you get her genetics and you still have her in a nuc.  If they don't, they could have a queen and would be risky to combine.

I am at capacity with hives.  I can only have 10 without getting into a reporting and fee issue.  Also in Montana it?s getting late to try to raise new queens

[beepro]

Right now is the perfect time to raise new queens in your area.  In time for the
early Autumn flow there.  Maybe it is time to find another out yard somewhere. Once you find out that this hive is queen less then put the entire nuc on top with a piece of newspaper underneath it.  If you have confirmed that
this nuc queen is a strong laying queen then you can skip the newspaper altogether.  I just did a combine by swapping out the dinky queen with a newly mated large thorax queen in my 5 level deep nucs hive.  I put in 4 frames of bees one of which has the laying queen from the nuc hive into the booming 5 level hive.  Then check on the new queen the next night.  No issue so far with acceptance.

In a cold weather environment you needed more laying queens in case of a dead out.

[yes2matt]

I think I?m going to put a frame of young open brood in to see if they start any QC?s.  Once I?m sure there isn?t a queen, I will do a paper combine on the top. If everything works like I?d like I?ll just move the frames down to a lower box and take unused ones out. 

If the queen is doing well in the nuc, why move her?  If you take a frame of eggs from the queen in the nuc and they start a new queen you get her genetics and you still have her in a nuc.  If they don't, they could have a queen and would be risky to combine.

I am at capacity with hives.  I can only have 10 without getting into a reporting and fee issue.  Also in Montana it?s getting late to try to raise new queens

Not to derail, it's a good question.
But if somebody tells me "ten max" I automatically start plotting how to get 12 or 15. And I start thinking "well maybe they mean ten towers of boxes" ... and then, there's lots of fun ways to divide a tower of boxes to house several colonies. :)

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[moebees]

Not to derail, it's a good question.
But if somebody tells me "ten max" I automatically start plotting how to get 12 or 15. And I start thinking "well maybe they mean ten towers of boxes" ... and then, there's lots of fun ways to divide a tower of boxes to house several colonies. :)

Sent from my SM-J327P using Tapatalk

And that's how beekeepers get a bad reputation and municipalities start implementing ever more restrictive regulations.  In my area around Chicago in the last 15 years we have gone from almost no regulations to almost every community implementing regulations and several communities have outright banded beekeeping.

[Ben Framed]

I am at capacity with hives.  I can only have 10 without getting into a reporting and fee issue.  Also in Montana it?s getting late to try to raise new queens
[/quote]



I am just wondering, is this some type of city order me a state ordinance?

[Acebird]

I am at capacity with hives.

This would influence my decision to gamble because next year what are you going to do if all your hives make it through winter?  I would put the queen right nuc on the bottom board and newspaper combine one box at a time.  If the first box doesn't kill the queen I don't think the successive boxes will.  If the first box does kill the queen I would shake the bees out and take all the honey at the end of your flows.

[Aroc]

I am at capacity with hives.  I can only have 10 without getting into a reporting and fee issue.  Also in Montana it?s getting late to try to raise new queens

I am just wondering, is this some type of city order me a state ordinance?
[/quote]

It?s a Montana reg.  There is another thread here about different state regs that explains it in more detail.

I can have more than 10 but it puts me into a different category that requires me to report my hives and pay a fee.  Really don?t want to do that.

[yes2matt]

Not to derail, it's a good question.
But if somebody tells me "ten max" I automatically start plotting how to get 12 or 15. And I start thinking "well maybe they mean ten towers of boxes" ... and then, there's lots of fun ways to divide a tower of boxes to house several colonies. :)

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And that's how beekeepers get a bad reputation and municipalities start implementing ever more restrictive regulations.  In my area around Chicago in the last 15 years we have gone from almost no regulations to almost every community implementing regulations and several communities have outright banded beekeeping.

I'll disagree about where the bad reputation comes from -- swarms, stings, and swimming pool encounters more likely.  Seriously tho, that sucks. How do you get thru swarm season? I'd also wonder about the verbiage of the ordinance: how are "hive " or "colony " defined and counted?

Attached pic: that's "two"  :)

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[moebees]

Not to derail, it's a good question.
But if somebody tells me "ten max" I automatically start plotting how to get 12 or 15. And I start thinking "well maybe they mean ten towers of boxes" ... and then, there's lots of fun ways to divide a tower of boxes to house several colonies. :)

Sent from my SM-J327P using Tapatalk

And that's how beekeepers get a bad reputation and municipalities start implementing ever more restrictive regulations.  In my area around Chicago in the last 15 years we have gone from almost no regulations to almost every community implementing regulations and several communities have outright banded beekeeping.

I'll disagree about where the bad reputation comes from -- swarms, stings, and swimming pool encounters more likely.  Seriously tho, that sucks. How do you get thru swarm season? I'd also wonder about the verbiage of the ordinance: how are "hive " or "colony " defined and counted?

Attached pic: that's "two"  :)

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Not surprising you would disagree since you advocate "plotting" to circumvent the law.  Swarms, stings, and swimming pool encounters can occur without beekeepers present.  Many of the encounters may involve hornets, bumble bees or other insects that people simply describe as bees because of their ignorance.  But when a dispute arises and it is found that the neighbor beekeeper has 15 hives instead of the mandated 10, well then the non-beekeeping public can be justifiably upset.  So plot away because you are so clever.