This may sound stupid, but I need tips on finding the queen!

[kedgel]

I spent over an hour poring over the frames to find "her royal crankiness" so I could pinch her head off and re-queen my hive.  No luck.  I thought it should be easy since I pulled 3 frames out for a split a dew days ago.  They hadn't started to draw out the foundationed frames, so she wasn't there.  I had 2 frames with eggs and open brood that I thought she should be on, but no luck there, either.  I only have one brood box under an excluder, so I know she was in the bottom--somewhere!  I usually see the queen when I'm not looking for her.  Any hints on finding a shy queen?

Kelly

[Larry Bees]

You would be shy too if somebody was looking to "pinch your head off".  :lau: :lau: :lau:

Sometimes I have queens in some of my hives that I just can't find for weeks, but if I see eggs, I don't worry about it.

I realize that you want to re-queen. Just wait and one of the more experienced beeks will answer you. I would like to know myself.

Larry

[Kathyp]

don't know if i can help you in writing.  somewhere on here are pictures that show the behavior of the bees around the queen.  maybe someone will remember where they are and post them.

looking for the queen is hard.  she gets under the bees or blends in.  what i look for is the behavior of the bees around the queen and on the frame.  on that frame, the bees will usually be calm.  in one spot, you will find the bees circling the queen.  they face her and attend to her.  if she's moving, you'll see the bees moving around her in a different way from the way they move when she's not on the frame.

that's not really helpful without the pictures, but once you have seen it, you'll know it.  find a queen in any hive and watch what is going on around her.  

it is also possible for a queen to go through an excluder.  check that box.  are you sure you didn't move her with the split?

[skatesailor]

Some quenns are better than others in playing hide and seek. I usually look for newly laid eggs to narrow my search and when I pick out the frame do a periphial scan first around the edges and work your way toward the center. Do a quick flip and repeat on the other side. Set that frame aside and go for the next nearest frame. Look for nervous workers sometimes as a help. I've found that this isn't always the best clue, however. Most of my queens seem to strike out on their own if they don't want to be found. Usually if the first time through doesn't work I let the hive rest for a couple of minutes and then work my way back through. I have also found that minimal smoke or no smoke , depending on the hive, helps.
You should also change what you are looking for in your mind. I had a hard time finding one because most of my queens are yellow. When I regrouped and looked for anything I found a nice black queen.
I also had one that worked the bottom of the frame so that everytime I flipped it she would go to the other side.
If all else fails come back later. She is on the run and needs to settle down.
Also given that you made the split did you know where she was before you made the split so that you didn't transfer her? I always like to have a visual before doing any splitting. Check your split for the queen.

[indypartridge]

Michael Bush offers some tips:
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesqueenspotting.htm

[AliciaH]

Maybe you are already doing this, but if not, remember to take two frames out and after inspecting, put them aside.  This will give you lots of room inside the box so you can leave a large gap between the ones you've already looked at and the ones yet to inspect.  It reduces the chance of her making a jump from one frame to another and making it harder on you.  Of course, I have had them run along the bottom, too......

Good luck!

[Bee-Bop]

It is a known fact that beginners often have trouble finding the Queen !

Actually very many "experienced" beekeepers "say" they find them with no problem, however they just can't seem to be able to point them out to you "this time" !!    :evil:

Bee-Bop

[BlueBee]

Not really answering your question here, but I find the dark colored queens (like Carniolans) so much easier to spot than the Italians.  For those who want practice finding a queen, buying an unmarked Carniolan queen to hone your queen spotting skills might be a good experience.  

[BlevinsBees]

I started using a magnifying glass to look for eggs and varroa mites and then began using it to spot queens. It helps. Be careful not to fry
her with the sun rays however :shock:

[windfall]

I had this very same question in my mind a couple times over the last few weeks.

I have only seen the attending circle after the fact in pictures I took of a frame that happened to catch the queen....found myself wondering how I didn't see that at the time.

As a complete beginner I find that I can spot her easiest when she is moving quickly. I think that extra long abdomen adds a more sinuous wiggle that jumps out at me. I find that after inspecting a busy frame and failing to see her, if I blow lightly on it and get them all scurrying she will often visually "jump out" at me. I may well be seeing a difference in the movement of workers around her that draws my eye and not realize it.

She also seems to be easy to find when I have no real interest in seeing her and much harder to find when I need to.

[Grandpa Jim]

If you really need to find her so you can get that new queen in place, here is what I did with a shy queen in a hot hive.

If you have time, split the hive in two and wait a few days, just put them side by side (if you do not have the time to wait, move the whole hive) .  Come back in 3 or 4 days and the one with new eggs is where she is, now you have just half the bees to look through.  Take that hive 20 feet or so out in front of the hive she is not in and pull the frames.  Look for her but if you do not see her on a frame shake or brush the bees off the frames and place the frames on the far side of the box you are looking in (away from the hive).  Most of the bees will fly back to the hive and be out of your way.  When all the frames are brushed off, the hive body and those frames can be put back on the hive.  In a half hour or less there will be a cluster or maybe a few clusters on the ground of bees not going back to the hive....she will be in there, use your finger to move the bees to look for her....find her..... and pinch her head!!!

[skatesailor]

If you really need to find her so you can get that new queen in place, here is what I did with a shy queen in a hot hive.

If you have time, split the hive in two and wait a few days, just put them side by side (if you do not have the time to wait, move the whole hive) .  Come back in 3 or 4 days and the one with new eggs is where she is, now you have just half the bees to look through.  Take that hive 20 feet or so out in front of the hive she is not in and pull the frames.  Look for her but if you do not see her on a frame shake or brush the bees off the frames and place the frames on the far side of the box you are looking in (away from the hive).  Most of the bees will fly back to the hive and be out of your way.  When all the frames are brushed off, the hive body and those frames can be put back on the hive.  In a half hour or less there will be a cluster or maybe a few clusters on the ground of bees not going back to the hive....she will be in there, use your finger to move the bees to look for her....find her..... and pinch her head!!!

For the new folks, I'd only use this method if I wanted to snuff the queen.

[Grandpa Jim]

Skatesailor, That was his original post ....he was looking for her to pinch her head.   Definitily is not the method to just find a good working queen.  But when you need to get that old cranky queen out (and she is not to be found) so you can put in your new sweet natured queen, that you just paid good money for, this will work.
Jim

[kedgel]

it is also possible for a queen to go through an excluder.  check that box.  are you sure you didn't move her with the split?

Kathy:  I'd be surprised if she were in the super as no eggs, etc. have appeared in with the honey.  Also, if she got moved in the split, the bees would be making a mass Exodus to follow, wouldn't they?  I put the split doorstep to doorstep with the old hive.  The bees clustered on the new queen cage aren't trying to attack her like they would if the old queen was still at home.

[CapnChkn]

The bees will stay with the brood, queen or not.  The foragers usually go back to the old hive, house bees have never flown, so don't know the difference.  The way to tell if the queen is there without actually seeing her would be to do what's called a "finger test."

Queenless bees and Queenright bees will act pretty much the same at first.  The split without the queen will go to it and cling for life.  The side with the queen will cling for all they're worth.  Difference will be they are trying to kill the cage.

After a few days, the bees will relax to the point they will move when you poke them with your finger.  Otherwise they'll hang on tight and are still trying to kill.  I did this in June, and decided to keep the hot bees, though out in the sticks where they don't drive me crazy.  I can sit next to them, but not too long.

[Jim134]

If you have 2 hives You can do this

Good video Mike..
One thing you may have done to bring the bees up would have been to bring a frame of mixed brood. Thety would move in fast to cover the brood,and the smell from another queen would likely have enticed the queen to the upper box.  Just my 2 cents.

   You bet Ken in about 10 to 15 minutes the queen will come up it works about 90% of the time
 Just my $0.02  

   BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :)

   Put the frame of eggs for a other hive (only lee no bees) it slot 1 or 10 in top boxer and close the top and look in about 10 to 15 minutes


     BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :)

[bee-nuts]

What I do is this.  If I am making up nucs and need to find the queen I bring the nuc boxes or extra hive bodies.  Now instead of waiting to find the queen before I start making them up I just make them ua as if I already found the queen,  When i find her I set her aside in another box.  How does this help?  If you only have one box of brood with the queen in it then separate the frames into three or four boxes.  This keeps the queen from frame hopping all over the place.  Start looking for the queen, and move that frame into another box, I have nine frames in most my deeps so this would end up three frames in three boxes.  If you dont find her the first round, start on the first three frames, then the second, then third.  Make sure you look on the sides of the boxes, and on your bottom board and make sure you look on your queen excluder when you take it off.  You will be surprised how many times your queen is on hive wall, bottom board or excluder when you cant find her.  I will give on after three times at looking at all frames.  9 times out of 10 I find her.

I read that if you ever pinch a queen to save her and freeze her in a match box in the freezer.  It is said that if you need to find a queen, you simple take this old frozen queen and lay the match box on top of frames, and come back in twenty minutes.  Your queen will be there when you come back trying to find and kill it.  Also heard that a frame of larva from another hive will attract your queen because she can smell the foriegn larva and will come to investigate it.

I had one stretch where I always found the queen on the second to last frame in the box for like 10 times in a row out of 20 frames.  I know the queens had to be frame hoping away from the light so every time you pulled a frame they ran to the second frame over so the next time you grab a frame she was on the nex, and so on.

[skatesailor]

Skatesailor, That was his original post ....he was looking for her to pinch her head.   Definitily is not the method to just find a good working queen.  But when you need to get that old cranky queen out (and she is not to be found) so you can put in your new sweet natured queen, that you just paid good money for, this will work.
Jim

Jim, I realize that was the original post. Your method sounds great for snuffing. I was just making sure the new folks didn't misunderstand.

[D Semple]

Best to get you some "eagle-eye glasses" for finding the queen!

[kedgel]

Queenless bees and Queenright bees will act pretty much the same at first.  The split without the queen will go to it and cling for life.  The side with the queen will cling for all they're worth.  Difference will be they are trying to kill the cage.

I checked the split, both to ensure that I didn't transfer the old queen with a frame of brood and to see if the new queen was released.   No new brood, so the old queen is still at home in the hot hive.  Even though they hadn't quite eaten through the candy yet, the bees clustered on the cage were sticking in their tongues trying to feed her rather than doubled over trying to sting her.  Now I just have to try again to find the old one before her replacement dies in the cage.  Thanks for the input.  I'll report back on which worked for me!

Kelly

[schawee]

just updated my eagle eye glasses :-D   when i look for a  queen i look at the frame of bees ,not at every bee on that frame. alot of times she will just stand out.
schawee

[Ben Framed]

This may sound stupid, but I need tips on finding the queen!

Not stupid at all. Most of us have that problem when first starting out. Even after getting pretty good at, I still have a head banger from time to time and once in a while. lol 

Phillip

[NigelP]

An good way of finding elusive queens requires a second brood box a queen excluder  and 24 hours.
Into an empty brood box place 2 frames (without brood if possible) together in the middle. Shake the bees off all the other frame into this brood box and place a queen excluder over this and put brood box plus beeless frames on top.
Go back next day and bees will have migrated back into top box and queen will now be confined onto 1 of 2 frames making it much easier to find her.

A variation on this is to sieve bees through a queen excluder. Need 2 empty boxes with a queen excluder between them. Shake all bees into top box, once you have done this take top box and queen excluder and place back over the beeless brood frames. Within a few hours all the bees will have migrated back to bottom box leaving queen isolated on top of the excluder.

Even if you still can't find the queen at least you know where she has to be so you can removed/discard those bees/frames etc as required.

[Mamm7215]

Practice, basically.  Especially with Nucs.  They're smaller and usually easier to find the queen.  As far as the other tips, they're all good...sometimes.  Bees on the frame move calmer-sometimes.  She's likely on the frame with the freshest eggs-sometimes.  She's always below the excluder-mostly.  So all the tips are good and helpful but not written in stone.  Just wait until you try to find her on an inspection but can't so you give up, put the hive back together and go into the house for a coffee and she's on your shoulder.  I almost always find my queens now.  Almost. :)

[Oldbeavo]

As you start pull frame 2, check for queen and put aside, then pull frame 7 in an 8 or 9 in a 10 frame.
This gives you 2 shafts of light that hopefully traps the queen on the middle frames.
As you take out frame 3 don't look it immediately, look at the face of frame 4 to see if she is running down the frame. if no then check frame 3 and put it aside. And so on.
Still no queen, check the outside frames and put aside. Most of the time we have the queen by now.
Still no queen look in the box to see if she is running around the walls. Alot of the time she is in a corner or along a join.
Still no queen then check every frame as you put it back.

Still no queen, shut up the hive and come back tomorrow. If this is not an option we will shake all the bees onto a surface in front of the hive to find her, last resort.

[Michael Bush]

https://bushfarms.com/beesqueenspotting.htm

[Ben Framed]

TheHoneyPump put out an excellent video and posted it here three years ago. I will repost for the benifit of anyone who might be interested or need help. 

Phillip

Spot the queen

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSe3-8lIUgg