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Author Topic: Trap out gone sour: Suggestions?  (Read 9144 times)

Offline 2Sox

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Re: Trap out gone sour: Suggestions?
« Reply #40 on: June 04, 2021, 01:07:29 am »
I suppose JP is versatile in bee vacs like you 2Sox. In this video he is using the ROBO (BushKill) vac and a hose that looks like mine. Notice he is using the flat style end. My end is the tapered round style, about the same size which slides perfectly inside the pool vac hose. Then I use tape to secure the two together. That JP is one bee cut-out machine! But so is 2Sox with 100 cutouts! Keep up the good work and good service to the public!!!


Great video! JP was young in this one. He says his ?brand new Bushkill (Robo) bee vac". These have not been manufactured for several years so I figure it was filmed some time ago. I consider JP to be the guru of cutouts but I?d never use a hose that length - that?s a pool hose, btw. I did once, and the colony did not survive the cutout. Used a shop vac hose the same length another time. Enormous mortality. Learned my lesson. On cutouts at those heights, my equipment goes right into the bucket lift or up on the scaffold, right next to the bees. I have climber?s lines to bring up my equipment onto the scaffold.

"Good will is the desire to have something else stronger and more beautiful for this desire makes oneself stronger and more beautiful." - Eli Siegel, American educator, poet, founder of Aesthetic Realism

Online Ben Framed

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Re: Trap out gone sour: Suggestions?
« Reply #41 on: June 04, 2021, 03:49:38 am »
As far as I know and have checked, the BushKill bee vac is definitely still available.  See
Bushkill Bee Vac  https://www.beevac.com

We can read more thoughts on this subject here at beemaster under the EQUIPMENT USAGE, EXPERIMENTATION, HIVE PLANS, CONSTRUCTION TIPS AND TOOLS heading subject,

Title: "my version of Colorado beevac". Some good stuff there.
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline rast

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Re: Trap out gone sour: Suggestions?
« Reply #42 on: June 04, 2021, 08:21:51 am »
A guy on another forum just bought one from Robo.
Fools argue; wise men discuss.
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Online Acebird

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Re: Trap out gone sour: Suggestions?
« Reply #43 on: June 04, 2021, 09:11:12 am »
The pressure relief is used to reduce, (slamming), Injury you might check out the videos put out by Colorado bee vacs, it explains in detail. Suction pressure must be reduced in a bee vac in comparison to a regular vac or you will get the results Jim described on his first use.
Yes, some truths here but the terms being used are misunderstood.  Someone wanting to make their own bee vac could be misguided.  Another topic should be started on bee vac design.  I am more than happy to discuss.
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Offline 2Sox

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Re: Trap out gone sour: Suggestions?
« Reply #44 on: June 04, 2021, 09:34:40 am »
As far as I know and have checked, the BushKill bee vac is definitely still available.  See
Bushkill Bee Vac  https://www.beevac.com

We can read more thoughts on this subject here at beemaster under the EQUIPMENT USAGE, EXPERIMENTATION, HIVE PLANS, CONSTRUCTION TIPS AND TOOLS heading subject,

Title: "my version of Colorado beevac". Some good stuff there.

Thanks, Ben. I wasn?t aware of that.  There was a long time it was not in production and the last time I checked it wasn?t available. Good to know he?s back. It?s a great system.
"Good will is the desire to have something else stronger and more beautiful for this desire makes oneself stronger and more beautiful." - Eli Siegel, American educator, poet, founder of Aesthetic Realism

Online Ben Framed

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Re: Trap out gone sour: Suggestions?
« Reply #45 on: June 04, 2021, 11:34:00 am »
The pressure relief is used to reduce, (slamming), Injury you might check out the videos put out by Colorado bee vacs, it explains in detail. Suction pressure must be reduced in a bee vac in comparison to a regular vac or you will get the results Jim described on his first use.
Yes, some truths here but the terms being used are misunderstood.  Someone wanting to make their own bee vac could be misguided.  Another topic should be started on bee vac design.  I am more than happy to discuss.

Another topic already has been started and referred. See

EQUIPMENT USAGE, EXPERIMENTATION, HIVE PLANS, CONSTRUCTION TIPS AND TOOLS heading subject,

Title: "my version of Colorado beevac". Some good stuff there.
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Online Ben Framed

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Re: Trap out gone sour: Suggestions?
« Reply #46 on: June 04, 2021, 12:06:32 pm »
> - Use the shortest hose possible - 8 feet max.  Long hoses kill bees - guaranteed. Hose clogs with bees, domino effect of exploding bees along with stinging each other

2Sox I can?t understand why you have experienced failure with hoses over 8 foot. As I have stated here before.  When retrieving hard to reach swarms, with the 16 foot pool pole extention, 10 foot of ladder along with my height added, I sometimes use every inch of this 30 foot hose with great success achieved. If not so high I simply lay excess hose on the ground or use the 20 foot hose. There has to be some difference or variance in what we are doing. That is why I referred to the heading about suction, above. I am not intending to be disrespectful or argumentative. I believe you are a GREAT cutout person and salute you for your good work and service to the public along with doing your part to save bees. 🐝 I want to encourage you to keep up the good work and sharing your experiences. Let us know how the (honey robber) works out if you get the opportunity to use it.
Blessings
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline 2Sox

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Re: Trap out gone sour: Suggestions?
« Reply #47 on: June 04, 2021, 12:44:38 pm »
> - Use the shortest hose possible - 8 feet max.  Long hoses kill bees - guaranteed. Hose clogs with bees, domino effect of exploding bees along with stinging each other

2Sox I can?t understand why you have experienced failure with hoses over 8 foot. As I have stated here before.  When retrieving hard to reach swarms, with the 16 foot pool pole extention, 10 foot of ladder along with my height added, I sometimes use every inch of this 30 foot hose with great success achieved. If not so high I simply lay excess hose on the ground or use the 20 foot hose. There has to be some difference or variance in what we are doing. That is why I referred to the heading about suction, above. I am not intending to be disrespectful or argumentative. I believe you are a GREAT cutout person and salute you for your good work and service to the public along with doing your part to save bees. 🐝 I want to encourage you to keep up the good work and sharing your experiences. Let us know how the (honey robber) works out if you get the opportunity to use it.
Blessings

Thanks Ben for your feedback and your kind words.  I?m not sure what went wrong but I do know that those bees had a tendency to clog inside the hoses at that length. It?s heartbreaking to see that kind of mortality. I won?t EVER use a long hose again on cutouts.

Also, if the main vac unit is that far away from you, you have absolutely no control over suction force. Those of us who do cutouts and swarm catches with vacuums know that bees always get trapped inside the screened vac inlets. The more trapped bees, the more your suction increases.  It sneaks up on you and you have to be very diligent about watching for this.  The Owens and the Bushkill both have screens to prevent bees from getting sucked in and that?s where they get trapped by the suction. The Colorado does not. I placed screening on that with some silicone.  Also, the Owens does not have a filter on it and I?ve already replaced one motor because of burnout from the debris that got sucked in over time. Now I have some screening on that too. Helps a little if you know the design.  I also placed a foam AC filter inside the Colorado vac to filter out dust and debris which is part of every cutout.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2021, 10:10:50 am by 2Sox »
"Good will is the desire to have something else stronger and more beautiful for this desire makes oneself stronger and more beautiful." - Eli Siegel, American educator, poet, founder of Aesthetic Realism

Online Acebird

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Re: Trap out gone sour: Suggestions?
« Reply #48 on: June 05, 2021, 09:10:51 am »
I also placed a foam AC filter inside the Colorado vac to filter out dust and debris which is part of every cutout.
The filters should remain in the vacuum unless you are using a Kirby as the vacuum source.  It is the only vacuum that I know that doesn't pass the suction air through the armature.
On long hoses you have to be careful not to stop the air flow by choking up the nozzle.  And definitely don't put your hand over it to check the suction.  I wonder if transitioning to larger size hose would help or hurt.  Maybe start with a 1 in hose for 6 ft then go to a 2 in hose for 10 ft and go the rest of the way with a 3 in hose.  Not sure if that would create dead spots at the transition points where bees would clump.
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Offline 2Sox

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Re: Trap out gone sour: Suggestions?
« Reply #49 on: June 05, 2021, 10:45:58 am »
I also placed a foam AC filter inside the Colorado vac to filter out dust and debris which is part of every cutout.
The filters should remain in the vacuum unless you are using a Kirby as the vacuum source.  It is the only vacuum that I know that doesn't pass the suction air through the armature.
On long hoses you have to be careful not to stop the air flow by choking up the nozzle.  And definitely don't put your hand over it to check the suction.  I wonder if transitioning to larger size hose would help or hurt.  Maybe start with a 1 in hose for 6 ft then go to a 2 in hose for 10 ft and go the rest of the way with a 3 in hose.  Not sure if that would create dead spots at the transition points where bees would clump.

Thanks, Ace, but I?m having some difficulty understanding some of what you wrote. If you're familiar with the three vacs I mentioned, only the detachable head that inserts into the Bushkill has a self contained filter. It?s easy to remove for cleaning. Neither the Colorado nor the Owens have self contained filters. Invites motor burnout. (I keep the motors for each of these vacs running all the time during cutouts - to prevent bee escape and bee suffocation. This invites motor burnout also after awhile.)

I don?t know what you refer to by ?armature?.  Also, it?s absolutely necessary to check suction force - reason being obvious - so why do you advise not doing so?

Long hoses? It?s a gamble whatever the diameter -  and I used all of them. Never again for me. Disaster looking for a time and place to happen.
"Good will is the desire to have something else stronger and more beautiful for this desire makes oneself stronger and more beautiful." - Eli Siegel, American educator, poet, founder of Aesthetic Realism

Online Ben Framed

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Re: Trap out gone sour: Suggestions?
« Reply #50 on: June 05, 2021, 11:41:56 am »
I too, am confused. lol
My vac is none of the above. I built my vac with peg board as I seen of the colorado vac user explanation video. I do not know how the suction motor on the colorado is set up. I set mine up by using my imagination. My suction power source is a Shop-Vac brand motor. I used a multi function tool to cut off the filter housing part. I knew this part would not be necessary as the top of my catch box is equipped with fine window screen the entire size of a langstroth box 16" wide by 19 7/8" long.. This serves two functions, as top of the catch box and a filter if you will. This fine mesh window screen stops any derbies from ever entering into the peg board section, which would stop derbies from entering the vacuum motor section. I am not as experienced as you Brain, or two sox. I have done a few cutouts and several swarm catches (anywhere form 30-40). All of varying heights and distances. I have never had my screen, or any part of my screen to clog; Period.
I have not had bees clog up in my hose when set up as I described in an earlier post here when using either hose, the 20' or the 30'. I have never had the suction to decrease or increase while doing a job of either length or height. I have lost very very few bees, meaning very few. I have never killed a queen and have caught multiple queens in a single swarm by using this method.
I am very very encouraged by my design after reading your post here. I did not realize what I had stumbled onto when I built this vac!!!  I can only speak for my vac as I have not used or even seen any other. Only what I have seen and watched on videos can I compare. I am wondering if perhaps I should begin building and marketing mine? lol   :shocked:
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Online Acebird

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Re: Trap out gone sour: Suggestions?
« Reply #51 on: June 05, 2021, 03:49:14 pm »
If you're familiar with the three vacs I mentioned, only the detachable head that inserts into the Bushkill has a self contained filter. It?s easy to remove for cleaning. Neither the Colorado nor the Owens have self contained filters. Invites motor burnout. (I keep the motors for each of these vacs running all the time during cutouts - to prevent bee escape and bee suffocation. This invites motor burnout also after awhile.)
I am not familiar with the details of each design and I have never done a cut out but I have years, and years, and years of experience with machine design and this is a machine.  In a normal shop vac the suction air passes over the armature and stator of the motor to keep the windings cool.  If you remove the filters dirt will pass through the motor and destroy the armature as you have found out.  What Phil did is a bad idea both for the armature and the possibility of fire from bits of wax, honey and propolise going through the motor and around the arching brushes.  A screen is not adequate.  I doubt if any of the bee vacs offered today could pass UL. because of this problem.
 
Quote
Also, it?s absolutely necessary to check suction force - reason being obvious - so why do you advise not doing so?
Because the instant you close off the hose you stop air flow in the hose.  If you stop air flow even for a few seconds the bees can clump.  Now the instant you unblock the hose the mass of bees that clumped will be shot into the container like a ball throwing machine for batting practice.  I am trying to get you off the idea of "suction" (pressure) as what you need to control because what you need to control is air flow (velocity).  You should look for an air flow indicator mounted on the nozzle end of the hose that will give you a constant indication while you are using it.  Then if the bees build up on the screen in your catch box you will see it as a loss of air flow.  By using the devise you will determine what values are safe and when you are pushing your luck.
Now for controlling air flow you have two options.  One is the traditional way of opening up another hole which let air in there by decreasing the amout of air that is drawn through you vacuum hose..  The second way is to down size the pump or reduce its speed.  Actually I should mention a third way which is to increase the dia of the hose.
Because I have no experience I cannot tell you what air velocity would be good.  I could advise you what to do if it is too high or too low but I think you can figure that part out yourself with the three options I have suggested.
Suggestions on hoses:  The hose should be smooth on the inside so not a pool hose.
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Online Ben Framed

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Re: Trap out gone sour: Suggestions?
« Reply #52 on: June 05, 2021, 08:47:18 pm »
Brian I have never seen a speck of dust come from the exhaust of my bee vac that was visible to the naked eye. I have however seen a lot of dust come out of the exhaust of a regular shop-vac when vacuuming sheetrock dust or other types of dust when a large amount is hit at one time, even with the manufactured filter attached. (Many times). Though it might have happened, I have never heard of shop-vac catching on fire when used in nasty-dusty construction circumstances, no matter what source of dust material was being vacuumed. Where I have made cutouts I have yet to find a numerous amount of dust except for bits and pieces of loose derbies caused by deconstruction when making or cutting my way in to reach the hive. I have never found "bees wax dust". I have however, found (bits of insulation inside the catch box) though rarely, I have found very small pieces of comb from time to time, very small because I have my suction set for picking up very light objects such as bees. Anything heavier is not picked up by my vac. As stated before, (Reduced Suction) is the key to not killing bees.
No derbies are found at the top of my catch box where the screen is located. Never have I found any insulation, or anything else on, or stuck to the 16" wide by 19 7/8" long catch box screen. Adding I have ran this vac for as long as 3 hours straight, numerous times, when doing a difficult cutout, I would be afraid to guess how many hours this vac has ran. Hours upon hours all total, counting a few cutouts and several swarm recoveries, at least 30-40, and no sign of motor failure or fatigue is present. But if it would ease your mind, lol, I could easily attach an adapted filter to the bottom of the cut off vac housing made of Shop-Vac filter material in a few minutes easily, 🙂flush so nothing changes the results or dynamics of this bee-vac.

Being you are experienced with vacs etc I am surprised you are missing the point of this design. Perhaps you need a clearer description on my part to relate the set up to you. The motor is on top with a sheet of pegboard beneath. Their is an empty space between the motor and the pegboard 16" wide by 19 7/8" long where there is nothing. Not a thing, only empty open hollow space. This hollow space between the two, allows suction build up for an even suction across the entire pegboard. Which equals an even suction through the peg board holes, which equals a equal suction through the catch box screen. As stated, the pegboard dimensions are 16" wide by 19 7/8" long, same as a langstroth bee hive. Each individual peg hole is a suction inlet in itself, independent of the other, with an evenly distributed suction through the individual peg holes throughout the entire top of this set up. There are hundreds of these peg holes in this vac pegboard, making hundreds independent suction inlets to the vacuum motor itself.  Beneath this, is the screen, which is attached to and independent catch box, same size, 16" wide by 19 7/8" long. The vac box with the peg board is set on top of the catch box/screen with a perfect union fit, and an added seal from the diameter of the rim of the pegboard where the two meet, now making one joined unit.
A hose hole is in place at one end of the catch box for the benefit of the suction hose attaching. Suction friction is a constant equal throughout the hose travel from the time the bee enters the hose to the time the bee exits the hose into the catch box. Once the bee and or a derby reaches the catch box as described, pressure is instantly relesed inside the catch box because of the design of the many suction access holes of the peg board before reaching the suction of the motor. (Physics) The scution of each of these hundreds of peg holes are greatly reduced individually. The bees come in for a soft easy landing. This is why no foam is needed for the opposite end of the inlet box. Bees do not need protecting from crashing or being banged around or against the other end of the box.  Nor are there any derbies coming crashing in, banging against the opposite side of the inlet box or the screen for the same reason. Bees come in for a soft easy landing. Whatever you may vacuum instantly settles to the bottom of the box. Derbies large enough to bee vacuumed, such as a bee for instance, are not (pulled) to the top because of the greatly reduced inside pressure of the design, (thanks to the peg board). Now, If we were to purposely cover X numbers of peg holes then things might start changing if enough of the holes were purposely plugged. Slowly increasing the suction pressure of what is in the catch box, If enough of these holes were reduced to an area equal to the area of the size of the vacuum hose openiing, then we would have that same pressure inside the catch box, but we don't because of design. 

As far as the pool hose I agree, the smoother the better. The pressure relief valve that Jim and I are talking about if for the benefit of the reduced suction, With my design it is mainly for hose pressure suction reduction.  As 2Sox stated to many bees coming in at one time could cause clogging. You can read the following from post 38 where smooth hose was mentioned and covered.

"For my hose, I searched for a pool vac hose, and not just any pool hose. I have found that though (ridged) on the outside, some brands are almost smooth on the inside, which is just what we need in my opinion. I found this "perfect hose" at either Lowes or Home Depot, I am thinking it was Home Depot. 50' I cut it 20'/30' giving me two hoses."
« Last Edit: June 05, 2021, 09:57:56 pm by Ben Framed »
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline van from Arkansas

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Re: Trap out gone sour: Suggestions?
« Reply #53 on: June 05, 2021, 10:15:31 pm »
Static Electricity?

Some really thought out questions and answers presented on this thread; very detailed: psi, mm of mercury, velocity, pressure, smooth vrs ribbed hose.  All this detailed physics to which I am mostly at a loss.  Good thread 2Sox, although, I am a lil off subject hoping its ok?

So I have a question regarding Static electricity.  Why does vacuuming bees not generate static electricity?  For that matter, why does a swarm not generate static such as packing peanuts.  All those bees rubbing together in a swarm??? I would think static for certain.  However, I realize there is no static within a swarm of bees or a full hive for that matter.  Physics is a field of little, very little understanding to me, so I am asking.  Why no static?
I have been around bees a long time, since birth.  I am a hobbyist so my answers often reflect this fact.  I concentrate on genetics, raise my own queens by wet graft, nicot, with natural or II breeding.  I do not sell queens, I will give queens  for free but no shipping.

Online Ben Framed

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Re: Trap out gone sour: Suggestions?
« Reply #54 on: June 05, 2021, 10:27:34 pm »
Mr Van, Honestly I don't know, I have never heard of a bee vac blowing up or catching on fire, whatever the brand, make, or design or features. If bee static is possible, I would be more concerned about the plastic bucket type. The same question can go for static of using a shop vac used in construction. Do bees produce static electricity? A good question for our friend The15thMember!   :grin:
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline The15thMember

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Re: Trap out gone sour: Suggestions?
« Reply #55 on: June 05, 2021, 10:42:07 pm »
I'm on my way!!  :grin:  I haven't been following this thread closely, so sorry if I'm missing something.  I think that bees don't build up a static charge in a swarm or a vacuum bucket because they are all made of the same material.  To built up a static charge from rubbing two things together, one has to be attractive to electrons and the other has to lose them, because it's the difference in the positive and negative charges in the objects that causes them to stick together, like rubbing a balloon on your hair, for example.  As you rub the balloon on your hair, the balloon picks up electrons from your hair which makes it negatively charged and your hair positively charged, which makes them attract and want to stick together, kind of like a magnet.  But the bees are all made of the same material, chitin, which means they would all lose/gain electrons at the same level, which wouldn't lead to a difference in the charges.       
« Last Edit: June 06, 2021, 01:39:09 am by The15thMember »
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Online Ben Framed

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Re: Trap out gone sour: Suggestions?
« Reply #56 on: June 05, 2021, 10:46:36 pm »
Member with you detailed answer, I think you are correct. I am of the opinion after hearing you answer, that bees do not generate static electricity. Makes me feel better! Who wants to get burned up or blown up from using a bee vac charged with a box laced with bees filled with static electricity!  lol   
:grin: Thanks.   :happy:





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« Last Edit: June 05, 2021, 11:07:41 pm by Ben Framed »
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline The15thMember

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Re: Trap out gone sour: Suggestions?
« Reply #57 on: June 06, 2021, 12:46:58 am »
Member with you detailed answer, I think you are correct. I am of the opinion after hearing you answer, that bees do not generate static electricity. Makes me feel better! Who wants to get burned up or blown up from using a bee vac charged with a box laced with bees filled with static electricity!  lol   
:grin: Thanks.   :happy:                                                                             
No problem.  I'm here all week.  :cool: :wink: :cheesy:

Sorry if I'm belaboring an off-topic subject here, but a related fun fact is that bees actually build up a slight positive charge when they fly and pollen has a slight negative charge which helps pollen to stick to the bees' bodies. 
I come from under the hill, and under the hills and over the hills my paths led.  And through the air, I am she that walks unseen.

Online Ben Framed

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Re: Trap out gone sour: Suggestions?
« Reply #58 on: June 06, 2021, 01:05:03 am »
Member with you detailed answer, I think you are correct. I am of the opinion after hearing you answer, that bees do not generate static electricity. Makes me feel better! Who wants to get burned up or blown up from using a bee vac charged with a box laced with bees filled with static electricity!  lol   
:grin: Thanks.   :happy:                                                                             
No problem.  I'm here all week.  :cool: :wink: :cheesy:

Sorry if I'm belaboring an off-topic subject here, but a related fun fact is that bees actually build up a slight positive charge when they fly and pollen has a slight negative charge which helps pollen to stick to the bees' bodies.

Member if we are off topic it is my fault. I first chimed in here with an idea trying to help 2Sox with his unique problem with this cutout by telling about of the honey robber stuff I had seen on a video years ago then searched, found, and posted the video here for his benefit. 2Sox is a dedicated beekeeper who is also a dedicated cut out person. It was my intention to help him with his situation concerning his cut out going sour. The video that I posted showing the use of the stuff, also showed the guys using a BEE vac, I commented that it would have been easy to retrieve the cluster that was ran out of the hollow tree which was hanging on a limb with a bee vac and this is where the BEE vac part took off... My apologies to you Mr 2Sox for drifting so far away from OP. 

MOdified to change the word shop vac to bee vac. I posted BEE in caped letter to show the change.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2021, 04:58:50 pm by Ben Framed »
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline 2Sox

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Re: Cut out gone sour: Suggestions?
« Reply #59 on: June 06, 2021, 10:05:22 am »
Brian I have never seen a speck of dust come from the exhaust of my bee vac that was visible to the naked eye. I have however seen a lot of dust come out of the exhaust of a regular shop-vac when vacuuming sheetrock dust or other types of dust when a large amount is hit at one time, even with the manufactured filter attached. (Many times). Though it might have happened, I have never heard of shop-vac catching on fire when used in nasty-dusty construction circumstances, no matter what source of dust material was being vacuumed. Where I have made cutouts I have yet to find a numerous amount of dust except for bits and pieces of loose derbies caused by deconstruction when making or cutting my way in to reach the hive. I have never found "bees wax dust". I have however, found (bits of insulation inside the catch box) though rarely, I have found very small pieces of comb from time to time, very small because I have my suction set for picking up very light objects such as bees. Anything heavier is not picked up by my vac. As stated before, (Reduced Suction) is the key to not killing bees.
No derbies are found at the top of my catch box where the screen is located. Never have I found any insulation, or anything else on, or stuck to the 16" wide by 19 7/8" long catch box screen. Adding I have ran this vac for as long as 3 hours straight, numerous times, when doing a difficult cutout, I would be afraid to guess how many hours this vac has ran. Hours upon hours all total, counting a few cutouts and several swarm recoveries, at least 30-40, and no sign of motor failure or fatigue is present. But if it would ease your mind, lol, I could easily attach an adapted filter to the bottom of the cut off vac housing made of Shop-Vac filter material in a few minutes easily, 🙂flush so nothing changes the results or dynamics of this bee-vac.

Being you are experienced with vacs etc I am surprised you are missing the point of this design. Perhaps you need a clearer description on my part to relate the set up to you. The motor is on top with a sheet of pegboard beneath. Their is an empty space between the motor and the pegboard 16" wide by 19 7/8" long where there is nothing. Not a thing, only empty open hollow space. This hollow space between the two, allows suction build up for an even suction across the entire pegboard. Which equals an even suction through the peg board holes, which equals a equal suction through the catch box screen. As stated, the pegboard dimensions are 16" wide by 19 7/8" long, same as a langstroth bee hive. Each individual peg hole is a suction inlet in itself, independent of the other, with an evenly distributed suction through the individual peg holes throughout the entire top of this set up. There are hundreds of these peg holes in this vac pegboard, making hundreds independent suction inlets to the vacuum motor itself.  Beneath this, is the screen, which is attached to and independent catch box, same size, 16" wide by 19 7/8" long. The vac box with the peg board is set on top of the catch box/screen with a perfect union fit, and an added seal from the diameter of the rim of the pegboard where the two meet, now making one joined unit.
A hose hole is in place at one end of the catch box for the benefit of the suction hose attaching. Suction friction is a constant equal throughout the hose travel from the time the bee enters the hose to the time the bee exits the hose into the catch box. Once the bee and or a derby reaches the catch box as described, pressure is instantly relesed inside the catch box because of the design of the many suction access holes of the peg board before reaching the suction of the motor. (Physics) The scution of each of these hundreds of peg holes are greatly reduced individually. The bees come in for a soft easy landing. This is why no foam is needed for the opposite end of the inlet box. Bees do not need protecting from crashing or being banged around or against the other end of the box.  Nor are there any derbies coming crashing in, banging against the opposite side of the inlet box or the screen for the same reason. Bees come in for a soft easy landing. Whatever you may vacuum instantly settles to the bottom of the box. Derbies large enough to bee vacuumed, such as a bee for instance, are not (pulled) to the top because of the greatly reduced inside pressure of the design, (thanks to the peg board). Now, If we were to purposely cover X numbers of peg holes then things might start changing if enough of the holes were purposely plugged. Slowly increasing the suction pressure of what is in the catch box, If enough of these holes were reduced to an area equal to the area of the size of the vacuum hose openiing, then we would have that same pressure inside the catch box, but we don't because of design. 

As far as the pool hose I agree, the smoother the better. The pressure relief valve that Jim and I are talking about if for the benefit of the reduced suction, With my design it is mainly for hose pressure suction reduction.  As 2Sox stated to many bees coming in at one time could cause clogging. You can read the following from post 38 where smooth hose was mentioned and covered.

"For my hose, I searched for a pool vac hose, and not just any pool hose. I have found that though (ridged) on the outside, some brands are almost smooth on the inside, which is just what we need in my opinion. I found this "perfect hose" at either Lowes or Home Depot, I am thinking it was Home Depot. 50' I cut it 20'/30' giving me two hoses."

Ben,
EXCELLENT post.  Extremely clear. Thank you. And I had not known the reason for the holes and the peg board before you described it here. Very logical and scientific. Thank you for that.  For those interested in the Colorado Bee Vac that Ben described, here is the website:

https://www.coloradobeerescue.com

Here is the Bushkill:

https://www.beevac.com

As I indicated in a previous post, I made a slight addition to the Colorado. I placed a piece of plain foam AC filter on top of the screen to filter out fine particles of debris. It covers the entire screen length and width.  I can assure you and others who do, or will be doing cutouts, you WILL get debris sucked into your vac. It is unavoidable. I learned this through experience.

I keep any vac I use running from the time I start vacuuming until I end the cutout. The longest cutout I ever did was ten hours on a 35 foot scaffold with 3 of us and the nastiest bunch of bees I ever removed. Teaneck, NJ. (I gave away that colony to a good friend and it was placed in a cemetery!) So that motor was running for 10 hours. Imagine how much stuff got sucked in with the bees. That was with the Bushkill.

Also, imagine how much wear these motors get.  I have burned out one detachable vac head for my Bushkill (Ridgid brand) and one vac head on my Owens and replaced both.

With the Bushkill (Robo) vac,  I must remove and clean the filter housing and filter in the detachable vac motor after each cutout. It is ALWAYS dirty and clogged with debris. Sometimes it?s bad and at other times not so bad. The point being is there is always debris going into the hose along with the bees. Yes, the screen on both the Bushkill and the Colorado filter out most of the big stuff, but there is still stuff that gets through. That is why I added the AC filter to the Colorado.

And by the way, the Colorado system uses the exact hose you describe.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2021, 10:26:28 am by 2Sox »
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