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Author Topic: Splitting a Hot Hive Questions  (Read 6879 times)

Offline BeeMaster2

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Re: Splitting a Hot Hive Questions
« Reply #40 on: June 06, 2018, 10:04:33 pm »
Thanks everyone for the advice.

Jim, I washed everything.. Gloves, suit, veil.. So maybe that was it. However when the suit was new I still got attacked.

That brings up another question how often should a person wash their suit? I wasn't mobbed last night but I know my gloves and suit were stung several times?

Lastly, seeing the queen for the first time was a really cool moment for me.

I do not wash my suit very often but mine is a vented, I also do not use it very much. The bees do not tend to sting the vented suits because they are mostly netting. If you know your suit was stung I would wash it. If your spouse does not get stung regularly, wash it your self. Just handling the dust from bee venom without being stung can cause a future severe reaction.
Jim
Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
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Offline bwallace23350

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Re: Splitting a Hot Hive Questions
« Reply #41 on: June 06, 2018, 10:13:15 pm »
Thanks everyone for the advice.

Jim, I washed everything.. Gloves, suit, veil.. So maybe that was it. However when the suit was new I still got attacked.

That brings up another question how often should a person wash their suit? I wasn't mobbed last night but I know my gloves and suit were stung several times?

Lastly, seeing the queen for the first time was a really cool moment for me.

I do not wash my suit very often but mine is a vented, I also do not use it very much. The bees do not tend to sting the vented suits because they are mostly netting. If you know your suit was stung I would wash it. If your spouse does not get stung regularly, wash it your self. Just handling the dust from bee venom without being stung can cause a future severe reaction.
Jim

I have seen that a lot but is there some sort of science behind it?

Offline BeeMaster2

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Re: Splitting a Hot Hive Questions
« Reply #42 on: June 06, 2018, 10:19:14 pm »
I read about it on BeeMaster years ago and have seen a case where it happened. The wife needed stings every day to live/get out of bed for 25 years  and the husband did the wash and ended up in the hospital years later when he got stung.
Jim
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Offline rockink

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Re: Splitting a Hot Hive Questions
« Reply #43 on: June 07, 2018, 09:07:14 am »
Quote
I do not wash my suit very often but mine is a vented, I also do not use it very much. The bees do not tend to sting the vented suits because they are mostly netting. If you know your suit was stung I would wash it. If your spouse does not get stung regularly, wash it your self. Just handling the dust from bee venom without being stung can cause a future severe reaction.
Jim

My suit is that vented 3 layer netting. So saying that I know it was stung is only an assumption cause i know my gloves were stung so i just assumed my suit was. I guess i will base my next visit to the hives on whether or not I wash it more often.

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Offline Acebird

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Re: Splitting a Hot Hive Questions
« Reply #44 on: June 07, 2018, 09:52:25 am »
i know my gloves were stung so i just assumed my suit was.
I would assume your suit was not stung if you didn't feel it.  The bees sting gloves because they are made of skin.  They sting through rubber or cotton gloves to get through to your skin.  Similar to your suit.  I have never been stung through my suit or clothing.
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Offline paus

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Re: Splitting a Hot Hive Questions
« Reply #45 on: June 07, 2018, 10:41:25 am »
I did not know about washing bee suits could be a problem.  I try to learn something every day, I have, so I guess I can go back to bed.

Offline rockink

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Re: Splitting a Hot Hive Questions
« Reply #46 on: June 08, 2018, 12:18:42 am »
I think I'm going to requeen my big hive.  My sister-in-law got nailed today she was over 50ft away.

I have got 2 splits from it and it's still has bees for days.

I did decide to install my game camera tonight so maybe I'll see something that will explain the aggression.

They have only been queenless since tuesday and I can have a new queen by the 13th or so.

This makes sense to me. Am I completely insane?



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Offline BeeMaster2

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Re: Splitting a Hot Hive Questions
« Reply #47 on: June 08, 2018, 07:35:41 am »
Rock,
Give them time to settle. I was told years ago by someone here on BeeMaster that if you walk into your apiary and get stung  at a fair distance, that is a sign that you probably have a queen less hive. Once they have a queen cell developing, they should calm down.
Jim
Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
Ben Franklin

Offline beepro

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Re: Splitting a Hot Hive Questions
« Reply #48 on: June 09, 2018, 12:01:27 am »
I like to take the analogy that the mean bees are like certain breeds of the mean dog.  If their genetics are mean then this is what they are.  No other way to change it other than taking the mean hives out to an open grass field.  For weeks, the mean foragers still linger around the original hive location even though it had been removed already.  This was what I had to go through last season in dealing with an aggressive hive. 

You can never change its aggressive nature just like the mean dogs.  Either requeen or get rid of this hive.  No need to kill them all because with an ads on CL they will be gone within an hour. 

If you leave them there you will be dealing with the queen less and queen right mean hive for months to come.  I took my neighbor's words that my bees stung them.  And took them out to the open grass field until late Autumn when I retrieved the hive again.   With the mean genetics they may or may not be the gentle type bees after requeening.   The local drones also contribute to the other half of the genes either gentle or aggressive.

Offline BeeMaster2

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Re: Splitting a Hot Hive Questions
« Reply #49 on: June 09, 2018, 12:26:00 am »
Beepro,
Last year I had a hive that was I knew was rather rough and when I opened it, it unloaded on me and sent me and my wife running. Right after that I learned about using the 10 minute and 30second smoke rule and from then on that hive was as calm as can bee.  I have a new hive in the back yard that was mean right after I installed it. You could not get near it. I was out there today around it with no problems.
I agree, some hives can be consistently mean and need to bee requeened.
Jim
Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
Ben Franklin

Offline cao

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Re: Splitting a Hot Hive Questions
« Reply #50 on: June 09, 2018, 12:48:52 am »
>I think I'm going to requeen my big hive.  My sister-in-law got nailed today she was over 50ft away.

Was she wearing perfume or other "smelly" stuff?  That could have been the reason for the sting.  And do you know that the bee came from that hive?  I agree with sawdstmakr, let them settle into their new situation.

You can never change its aggressive nature just like the mean dogs.  Either requeen or get rid of this hive.  No need to kill them all because with an ads on CL they will be gone within an hour. 

That has not been my observation.  My "mean" hive this year has already calmed down.  After splitting it 4 or 5 times, and them producing new queens and reduction of bee numbers they are back to normal.  Even the original hive with the original queen has calmed down.  It has only been about a month.  If you are in or are close to an area that has AHB then this might not work.  But it is no guarantee even requeening will do any better.  And IMO it is not good to advise someone to sell(or even give away) a "hot" hive.

Offline beepro

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Re: Splitting a Hot Hive Questions
« Reply #51 on: June 09, 2018, 01:29:29 am »
To a first year new beekeeper, dealing with aggressive hives are stressful to say the least.  When it involves family member or neighbors then it is out of the
question.   Better get rid of this mean hive than keeping it around the yard.    By now the family member who got stung will think twice before heading out to the yard.   Until this hive is gone the image of the bee sting will linger around her head.  No pun intended.

It just take the fun out of beekeeping!  Get rid of it, even for a small price and then buy another gentle type bees hive to keep.  Only an unsuspected new beekeeper like myself or a seasoned beekeeper will buy these mean hives.   An experienced beekeeper will know what to do to calm things down.  At every change you made there will be issues that needed to be address.   You don't expect a new beekeeper with enough experience to deal with these new issues when they come up.    I have 5 years of experience under my belt before knowing what to do with an aggressive hive.  Even then I still made some errors that should of been dealt with better solutions.    This cannot come from a first season of beekeeping!

Remember that everybody's beekeeping experience is different as our bee environment is different too.   What works for you might not work in my area.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2018, 01:43:06 am by beepro »

Offline rockink

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Re: Splitting a Hot Hive Questions
« Reply #52 on: June 09, 2018, 02:09:22 am »
So I have only been a beekeeper for about 6 weeks. Since then i have split 1 hive in to 3 hives because of aggressive bees. I'm tired of being afraid to go in the vicinity of my hives just to see how they are doing without the fear of being stung. I get it, you will get stung. But i want to earn that sting not just get stung from walking around. I have been stung about 20 times. They aren't fun right now.

I have decided to requeen, I have ordered 2 Italian Queens. I should get them next Wednesday or Thursday.

I'm going to split the hive, it has been queenless since Tuesday(6/5).

This hive consists of 1 medium and 1 deep brood box and a medium super. My plan is to evenly split the resources making 2 hives.

Once that is complete i will move the boxes about 75ft to a new hive stand late at night. I will leave an empty hive to catch the field bees.

I will place brush around the entrance to force them to reorient themselves.

Then finally requeening. I will inspect each frame throughout the hive removing any queen cells and introduce my new queens and then leave them alone for about 7 days?

Please let me know if I should do something differently.

Thanks,
Rockin K


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Offline BeeMaster2

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Re: Splitting a Hot Hive Questions
« Reply #53 on: June 09, 2018, 08:44:43 am »
Sounds like you did your homework. When you remove the queen cells, make sure you get every one of them.
Twice I have removed every queen cell/queens from my 8 frame observation hive and l marked a queen and put them in the hive. Both times another queen was hiding in the hive and killed my marked queen.
Jim
Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
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Offline beepro

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Re: Splitting a Hot Hive Questions
« Reply #54 on: June 09, 2018, 07:51:00 pm »
...."And IMO it is not good to advise someone to sell(or even give away) a "hot" hive."

Cao, I just don't yap my mouth without the experience to back me up.  Having bought 2 aggressive hives in my first season and dealing with one last season, I already know the psychology that one has to go through in handling a hot hive.  Even with experiences, it stressed me out alright.  And with newbie without the experience I can see the fear of being sting again in the yard.  Not going out will not solve this problem at hand. Not sure if there are neighbors nearby involve either.

If Rock follow my advice, he will be less stress out with beekeeping.  If I'm in his situation or facing another aggressive hive in the future, I would do the same thing.  First and foremost is to get rid of these aggressive hives.   The stronger the splits, now 3 hives, the more aggressive bees will be issued (within 1-2 weeks) from these 3 hives.  Now instead of one hive, he has 3 hives to deal with.   

That is why I recommend to get rid of this aggressive hive on CL ads; give the buyer this queen also.  Then he can get another hive with the gentle type bees to keep.  This is the fastest method to tame these stinging bees in his yard.  Been there done that before!

The flying bees will go inside the gentle hive and with the queen they will calm down also.  But if he want to explore the option of bringing in 2 mated queens trying to calm the queen less hives down then it is his choice.  For sure, if he does not get rid of the original queen or break it down to only 2 frames of bees, then they will sting again when this hive grow more in the future.  The aggression will never stop until you have break them down so that no more foragers are issued.

Offline cao

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Re: Splitting a Hot Hive Questions
« Reply #55 on: June 10, 2018, 01:58:56 am »
beepro
We obviously disagree with what to do with a mean hive.  In my case, ALL the splits I made from my mean hive turned out to be gentle as the rest of my hives(including the one with the original queen) .  Could be location, luck, nature or whatever but it worked for me(I don't have to worry about any AHB in my area of the country). 

Rockink has a plan and more importantly a mentor to help.  I think his plan will work and hopefully in a few weeks he can get back to the fun part of beekeeping.  The only thing that I would do different would be I would let them raise their own queens but it is his choice to buy queens.

The one part of your advice that I strongly diasagree with:
You can never change its aggressive nature just like the mean dogs.  Either requeen or get rid of this hive.  No need to kill them all because with an ads on CL they will be gone within an hour. 
Get rid of it, even for a small price and then buy another gentle type bees hive to keep.  Only an unsuspected new beekeeper like myself or a seasoned beekeeper will buy these mean hives.   
How can you advise a new beekeeper to get rid of a mean hive to an unsuspecting new beekeeper as a way to solve his problem?  If you had a mean dog that you couldn't control, would you put it on CL to solve your problem?

Offline beepro

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Re: Splitting a Hot Hive Questions
« Reply #56 on: June 10, 2018, 03:03:38 am »
If I love my mean dog then it will go through a series of modules at the dog training camp.  If not then it will go to the pound or up for adoption.

In this case we're talking about bees which is quite different than dogs.  Talking about higher level of intelligence here.  Dogs can be train but bees only react and cannot be train at all.

If a suspecting new beekeeper, after knowing that these are the aggressive hive based on the ads, and still choose to buy it then it is not the seller's fault.  Who would buy such a hive knowing that they are mean, especially from a new beekeeper.  If I'm a new beekeeper I would not after reading the CL ads.  Only the seasoned beekeeper will buy them.  And has a method to calm them down afterward.  If you are new after knowing all the facts, would you buy it too?

Offline BeeMaster2

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Re: Splitting a Hot Hive Questions
« Reply #57 on: June 10, 2018, 08:43:25 am »
Beepro,
When I bought my first Nuc, a guy had just left that, with no protection on, lifted the lid of each of the available nucs until four bees came out of one and stung him. He then took that Nuc. He was looking for the meanest hive. He said they were the best producers. If he advertises they are mean he will get someone who wants them.
Jim
Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
Ben Franklin

Offline rockink

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Re: Splitting a Hot Hive Questions
« Reply #58 on: June 10, 2018, 08:55:52 am »
No one wanted more than me to give this hive a soapy water bath however through advice from here and my mentor I have decided to requeen.

This hive was given to me by my neighbors wife this year. My neighbor who was my first mentor past suddenly last june. I didnt buy it but I do want it to work.

I'm bringing in a bred queen to hopefully replace the genetics in those 2 hives.

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Offline rockink

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Re: Splitting a Hot Hive Questions
« Reply #59 on: June 12, 2018, 07:40:21 pm »
Update.

Okay, so today I split the L2 hive in to 2 hives and moved it 50 yards. I split the resources as evenly as I possibly could.

I killed about 20 queen cells!! I wish I would have made sure that the first split we a few weeks back was queen right but oh well it was an after thought.

On Thursday the queens I ordered will be here then I will put them in the hives.

I put another hive with a few frames in L2's place. My goal is to replace the genetics in the hives, so I'm thinking I just let those bees that returned to the old spot in the replacement hive just live out there days over there.. The split hive's seemed to still have LOTS of bees so I'm not sure if I'm doing all of this right but if felt good to get this accomplished today

-Rockin K