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Author Topic: I?m in trouble again  (Read 7198 times)

Offline The15thMember

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Re: I?m in trouble again
« Reply #20 on: October 05, 2024, 08:46:02 pm »
Close up of comb. Are the holes in caps entry or exit holes varroa
Yes, I believe so.  Those pinholes are typical of an advanced varroa infestation. 
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Offline Lesgold

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Re: I?m in trouble again
« Reply #21 on: October 06, 2024, 03:19:09 am »
I?m hearing reports about Formic Pro causing issues if the varroa counts are high. Losses of queens and many bees can be a consequence of using FP treatment in this type of situation. Talk to your supplier and listen to what they have to say. If bees have numerous perforations in their bodies due to varroa, formic acid can then enter into the bees body with fatal results.

Offline Terri Yaki

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Re: I?m in trouble again
« Reply #22 on: October 06, 2024, 07:55:04 am »
I am a newbee and only used it once but when I did, I got a quick shot of dead bees and larvae on the front porch. After that, they seemed to recover but the hive died out anyway. I have no solid reason for their collapse.

Offline Guitarman

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Re: I?m in trouble again
« Reply #23 on: October 08, 2024, 02:49:43 am »
I just did an alcohol wash on my hive. I think I counted 36 mites. And I only had 2/3 of half a cup of bees. I?m surprised my hive is still alive. I put the formic pro in. We have a couple of nice cool days in Sydney at the moment. It could be my last opportunity before autumn. Hoping the Queen survives because she?s not young. And the treatment is known to knock off older  queens and that?s from the manufacturer.  And I pray I didn?t alcohol wash the Queen. I had a quick scan on the frame but my untrained eye didn?t see anything other than drones being larger. And it was very windy and I didn?t want the hive open too long in the wind. So I bit the bullet and did the shake and just scooped what I could get. I have to admit, I wasn?t even sure if I even had  a mite problem before the wash. I have no doubt now.
The bees are bearding within an hour of treatment. I believe this is normal but it?s quite cool today. I almost think most these are on the outside. I wouldn?t think there would be too many left inside.

Offline Lesgold

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Re: I?m in trouble again
« Reply #24 on: October 08, 2024, 03:15:32 am »
Sorry to hear that Guitarman. Keep us posted as to the results of the treatment. If your bees make it through the Formic blast, keep an eye on varroa levels as the little blighters will hit you again in a short period of time. Some areas in Sydney are being hit big time even a week after initial treatments.

Offline Michael Bush

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Re: I?m in trouble again
« Reply #25 on: October 08, 2024, 06:40:29 am »
The legs on the thing in the picture that has a pupae and one thing on it, look too long for Varroa.  Way too long.
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Offline Guitarman

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Re: I?m in trouble again
« Reply #26 on: October 26, 2024, 09:36:05 am »
I seem to go from one problem to another. It?s been 2 1/2 weeks since I put the formic  pro in. I open the hive up today and thought I?d look for some brood because I know I can?t spot the Queen. Every frame I pulled was either capped honey or the cells were half full of nectar. I didn?t see one pupae. And I?ve seen what the little eggs look like in my friends hive. And I certainly didn?t have any of them. Every cell had nectar in it about half filled in top and bottom boxes. 
I?m certain my queen has died during the formic pro. Or I killed it when I did the alcohol wash. One of the other. My problem is I have heaps of bees in this hive still. But I have no queen. And I?m told if I order a queen I could be waiting weeks and weeks that there?s some sort of big delays at the moment.

So I will see if I can get a queen but I?m working on the assumption I can?t get one in the next few weeks. So this is where I need your help. If I went round my friends place and he gave me a frame with some new laid eggs in it, would they feed it royal jelly and make a queen. My friend believes that won?t work. That there has to be a queen cell on the frame. I thought they could make a queen if they had day old eggs.

Second question. My friend took me today to catch a swarm. I got this swarm and I have it in a nuke box. Can I use that swarm to requeen my one and only hive. If I took the frames out of the nuke and put them and the rest of the bees into my hive would that work or will my hive kill that queen. 

This colony is still very strong and active. I would hate to see it die especially now it?s varroa free.

Appreciate any advice.

Offline Kathyp

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Re: I?m in trouble again
« Reply #27 on: October 26, 2024, 11:41:25 am »
Does no one use Thymol anymore?  Also temp dependant, but a much gentler treatment.
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Offline The15thMember

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Re: I?m in trouble again
« Reply #28 on: October 26, 2024, 12:08:04 pm »
If I went round my friends place and he gave me a frame with some new laid eggs in it, would they feed it royal jelly and make a queen. My friend believes that won?t work. That there has to be a queen cell on the frame. I thought they could make a queen if they had day old eggs.
Workers that are hopelessly queenless (meaning they don't have any brood left to make a queen) will absolutely make a queen from eggs donated from another colony.  I've done this many times.  Workers can make a queen from a larva (not an egg even) that is 3 days old or younger.  So an egg of any age (the egg stage usually lasts 3 days), and a larvae 3 days old or younger are all good candidates for new queens. 

Second question. My friend took me today to catch a swarm. I got this swarm and I have it in a nuke box. Can I use that swarm to requeen my one and only hive. If I took the frames out of the nuke and put them and the rest of the bees into my hive would that work or will my hive kill that queen. 
 
Combining them is another good option.  Cover the top box of your original colony with a sheet of newspaper and put the frames from the nuc into another box on top of the newspaper.  By the time the bees chew through the newspaper, they will be used to each other and the bees from the old colony should accept the new queen. 

Does no one use Thymol anymore?  Also temp dependant, but a much gentler treatment.
I'm not sure that Thymol is available in Australia. 
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Offline Guitarman

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Re: I?m in trouble again
« Reply #29 on: October 26, 2024, 05:25:03 pm »
If I went round my friends place and he gave me a frame with some new laid eggs in it, would they feed it royal jelly and make a queen. My friend believes that won?t work. That there has to be a queen cell on the frame. I thought they could make a queen if they had day old eggs.
Workers that are hopelessly queenless (meaning they don't have any brood left to make a queen) will absolutely make a queen from eggs donated from another colony.  I've done this many times.  Workers can make a queen from a larva (not an egg even) that is 3 days old or younger.  So an egg of any age (the egg stage usually lasts 3 days), and a larvae 3 days old or younger are all good candidates for new queens. 

Is it possible to take one of the frames out of the nuke. Would that queen be laying eggs straight away in the drawn out frames we put in there. Or would I have to wait sometime for that to happen. Also how long have I to do all this. How long before the bees die if they?re queenless. Or should I grab a frame eggs from my friend. Would be so easy to grab one from the nuke I have here next to my hive. If that?s possible.


Offline The15thMember

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Re: I?m in trouble again
« Reply #30 on: October 26, 2024, 05:43:14 pm »
A queen from a swarm is likely laying already, provided she is mated.  It will take a while for the colony to die from being queenless, as all the workers will have to live out their natural lifespans.  However, the immediate risk is that the workers will start laying eggs, which being unfertilized will only be drones, and at that point the colony likely won't accept or make another queen.  If you want to grab a frame of eggs from the nuc, that should work fine.     
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Offline Guitarman

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Re: I?m in trouble again
« Reply #31 on: October 27, 2024, 08:28:11 pm »
Thanks so much 15th member. I really appreciate your help.

The site has been down for a day I think. I?ve been in panic mode here trying to figure why I couldn?t get to the site.

I have a big delivery coming today of frames and boxes and allsorts of knickknacks from the bees supply people. With Varroa here now in Australia, I certainly need to have at least three hives so I can have some chance of keeping bees. Having just the one hive too difficult with Varroa. I think you always need to have a couple up your sleeve because your chances of loss are so much higher now.

At the moment I just want to see if I can get a queen back into that hive and not lose them. My priority.

Offline The15thMember

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Re: I?m in trouble again
« Reply #32 on: October 27, 2024, 09:08:28 pm »
Thanks so much 15th member. I really appreciate your help.

The site has been down for a day I think. I?ve been in panic mode here trying to figure why I couldn?t get to the site.
No problem, it's what we're here for.  We have been having some technical issues lately, and we're doing our best to handle them. 

With Varroa here now in Australia, I certainly need to have at least three hives so I can have some chance of keeping bees. Having just the one hive too difficult with Varroa. I think you always need to have a couple up your sleeve because your chances of loss are so much higher now.
I would always recommend at least two hives to a beginner.  It's much easier to have at least one other colony to fall back on, and I think three doesn't sound like a bad idea given the situation you guys are encountering with varroa being new. 
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Offline Lesgold

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Re: I?m in trouble again
« Reply #33 on: October 27, 2024, 09:41:33 pm »
Don?t forget about your swarm. They will most likely be carrying varroa as well. It would be a good idea to test and treat them if need be.

Offline Guitarman

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Re: I?m in trouble again
« Reply #34 on: October 28, 2024, 01:45:24 am »
I?ve just taken delivery of a box of formic pro today. I do worry about the nuc being so small. They say 1 strip. In some of the hives I?ve looked at belonging to other people you can see the Varroa on the bees with many having two and three on them. I was surprised if you took your time and looked at all the bees on a frame very carefully you can see the varroa on their backs. These are heavily infested hives. No need to do an alcohol wash.

I ran my eye over the swarm bees and I couldn?t spot one on any of the bees. So I?m hoping they?re not too heavily laden with varroa. Once their settled certainly will do a wash. My priority at the moment is to steal a frame of eggs from them and put it in my queenless hive. I also need to buy a marker pen and try and find the Queens and Mark them. If I?m going to be doing alcohol washes regularly, I need to make sure I don?t wash my queen.

Offline Michael Bush

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Re: I?m in trouble again
« Reply #35 on: October 29, 2024, 09:51:08 am »
I don't want to start a panic, but the parasite that picture has too long of legs for a Varroa.  It looks like a tropilaelaps to me, but it's too out of focus to be very certain of anything.
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Offline Lesgold

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Re: I?m in trouble again
« Reply #36 on: October 29, 2024, 04:53:20 pm »
It is hard to see anything clearly on the photo Michael. I can only see what appears to be varroa and some hive debris. What part of the photo is a concern to you?

Offline Michael Bush

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Re: I?m in trouble again
« Reply #37 on: October 30, 2024, 10:09:38 am »
Legs.  Varroa have such short legs you usually can't see them unless they are upside down and then they are shorter than that.
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Offline The15thMember

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Re: I?m in trouble again
« Reply #38 on: October 30, 2024, 12:18:36 pm »
Are you talking about the picture of the alcohol wash, Michael?  I can blow that up with good resolution on my phone, and all I see are varroa mites.  As I'm sure you know, the tropilaelaps mites have their heads on the short side of their oval-shaped body, and varroa's heads are on the long side of the oval, and all those mites have visible mouthparts on the long side of the oval.  I personally can see varroa mites' legs sometimes, even when they are not upside-down, and I feel it's easier to see their legs when the mites are dead for some reason.  Maybe because they are limp, essentially.   
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Offline Michael Bush

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Re: I?m in trouble again
« Reply #39 on: October 31, 2024, 05:53:16 am »
It's too blurry for me to tell, but Varroa legs are too short to see at all unless they are upside down and they don't stick out..
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm en espanol: bushfarms.com/es_bees.htm  auf deutsche: bushfarms.com/de_bees.htm  em portugues:  bushfarms.com/pt_bees.htm
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