Letting Bees Swarm

[The15thMember]

Out of curiosity, does anyone just let their bees swarm?   

[Ben Framed]

I have noticed in recovering  very early swarming bees, (the big swarms), wind up producing a fair amount of honey... One draw back is they must be recovered before they leave their initial swarming limb or branch or they will be gone and they do not always lite where we can find them as Father Michael found out the hard way... So in my opinion it is better if we manage the bees instead... (Before swarming)

[Lesgold]

I would love to have the skills to stop hives from swarming but every year a bunch of hives always get their way. Most of the time it is due to my lack of preparation in relation to observing weather forecasts. A week of rain and wind during mid spring generally catches me off guard. The first glimpse of sunshine after foul weather and the bees go nuts. Most of the hives that have had splits taken or have extra room given will behave themselves but hives that I have not had time to get to will tend to be naughty. I love using swarms for drawing new comb and swarms usually produce enough honey in a good year to pay for all the equipment needed. I am also quite happy to have new queens in the hives that have swarmed. It?s a bit of a lottery in relation to genetics but I have no issue in giving a queen a bit of a cuddle if she doesn?t behave herself. Hives that have swarmed drop a bit in relation to honey production but I still tend to get enough honey for my needs.

[Ben Framed]

If you have a long nectar flow in your season things will be better for the hive that was split and left behind due to swarming, compared to a season of short nectar flow for a left behind, or original hive. Such can come up short on production for the hive that the swarm left from. I suppose effects are different for the Bee and Beekeeper, depending on location in which the bees are kept and timing of the swarm, in conjunction with the period of flow in that location ..

[Michael Bush]

>Out of curiosity, does anyone just let their bees swarm?

You mean on purpose?

[Acebird]

Yes bees are too difficult to manage in the summer heat.  They are also too testy down here.
There is a commercial opp about a mile from me that I watched work the bees.  20-30 hive yard... looked like they were capturing queens or replacing them.  Just a cloud of bees around the heads of each beekeeper.  Looked like Dee Lusby's operation in the desert.

edit: corrected name

[salvo]

Hi Folks, Ace

You're confusing Angela Lansbury with Dee Lusby.

Sal

[The15thMember]

You mean on purpose?

I don't mean, "does anyone encourage their bees to swarm", what I mean is, does anyone just have the number of hive they want to have and just let the bees swarm and let the swarms fly away.  I encountered a beekeeper recently who does this, and I was just curious if anyone else did.  I think it seems like a bit of a waste, and obviously in a suburban or urban area it wouldn't be a good idea, since they'd probably just end up in someone's wall.     

[Ben Framed]

You mean on purpose?

I don't mean, "does anyone encourage their bees to swarm", what I mean is, does anyone just have the number of hive they want to have and just let the bees swarm and let the swarms fly away.  I encountered a beekeeper recently who does this, and I was just curious if anyone else did.  I think it seems like a bit of a waste, and obviously in a suburban or urban area it wouldn't be a good idea, since they'd probably just end up in someone's wall.

Good reasoning Reagan.. I agree that it is a waste if the bees get away.  In a wall is a possibility and is certainly where many swarms wind up. JP, Schawee, Jim (Beemaster2) and others can here can testify to that.

Phillip

[Terri Yaki]

You mean on purpose?

I don't mean, "does anyone encourage their bees to swarm", what I mean is, does anyone just have the number of hive they want to have and just let the bees swarm and let the swarms fly away.  I encountered a beekeeper recently who does this, and I was just curious if anyone else did.  I think it seems like a bit of a waste, and obviously in a suburban or urban area it wouldn't be a good idea, since they'd probably just end up in someone's wall.     

Given the number of swarms my close neighbor has found, I suspect that the guy down the street lets his swarm on a regular basis. But I might be wrong. I just think it's odd that I've lived all these years and only see on or two and now they're like a regular occurrence here.

[Bob Wilson]

Some people have this idea of helping nature by keeping bees, never inspecting or managing them, purposely letting them swarm, and never stealing their honey. No comment on that.
Perhaps if I had enough colonies, I might get a little lax, but there are so many people needing nucs that I tend to sell off extra bees.

[Acebird]

Hi Folks, Ace

You're confusing Angela Lansbury with Dee Lusby.

Sal

sorry yes

[Acebird]

  I think it seems like a bit of a waste, and obviously in a suburban or urban area it wouldn't be a good idea, since they'd probably just end up in someone's wall.     

no more so then wild bees or a commercial op near by which always through off swarms.  If there wasn't a way into the wall they wouldn't be there.  They don't bore holes.

[Ben Framed]

In a wall is a possibility and is certainly where many swarms wind up. JP, Schawee, Jim (Beemaster2) and others can here can testify to that.

  I think it seems like a bit of a waste, and obviously in a suburban or urban area it wouldn't be a good idea, since they'd probably just end up in someone's wall.     

no more so then wild bees or a commercial op near by which always through off swarms.  If there wasn't a way into the wall they wouldn't be there.  They don't bore holes.

No matter the source of their origin, be it from a feral hive, commercial op, or a even a beekeeper which is diligent in inspections, even those keepers will have and lose swarms..  And as you say Brian, if there wasn't a way in they would not have a place to enter. The reality is there are few homes 'if any' which are 100% bulletproof and so much buttoned up that the bees can not find a way into walls behind (bricks, blocks, siding etc), ceilings, attacs, soffit areas, porch columns, etc. .. No one is blaming the homeowner or the beekeeper, or even Nature with feral hives, it is just a reality..
 
If doesn't help if a beekeeper simply doesn't care if his or her bees swarm, which I think is Reagan's point?.. To neglect their bees allowing them to go wherever...

Just for conversation and food for thought, even Aunt Bee from the Andy Griffith show had bees enter her personal home once upon a time..  JP removed a swarm from a girls home that was an Actor/Star on a TV zombie series thing which lives in New Orleans, (I can't remember the name of the show)... 'Almost' no one is immuned from bees entering their home if bees want in, there is usually an opening just large enough somewhere ....

Phillip

[cao]

A buddy of mine that I sold bees to about 7 years ago to get started beekeeping said that he doesn't do anything to stop his bees from swarming.  He has around 17-20 hives and doesn't want anymore. The swarms that he catches he sells or uses to replace winter losses.  He said that the swarms are better set up than the splits that he could make. 

[The15thMember]

That's exactly the kind of thing I'm thinking about, cao.  Obviously just letting your bees swarm because you can't manage them properly, like Bob mentioned, isn't ideal.  But it would seem to me that you could still manage your bees well, let them swarm "naturally", catch them if you can or want to, or let them go if you can't or don't want to catch them.  As long as there are plenty of natural cavities for swarms in your area, I don't really see any harm in that.   

[Terri Yaki]

What is the success rate, if any, for having an empty hive, baited up adjacent to your hive(s) in catching your own swarms?

[The15thMember]

Variable but not unsuccessful.  You'd have even more success if that hive was baited up and short distance from the parent hive, as bee colonies don't live right next to each other in nature.  Plenty of people on this forum can testify to swarms moving into stacks of equipment, even when it was just sitting out in the yard for cleaning or something like that. 

[Lesgold]

I used to feel guilty about having a few of my hives swarm. My thinking was that my management practices were not good enough. In reality, that is probably true to a certain extent but being human allows me to make mistakes. It doesn?t worry me as much as it used to. I just shrug my shoulders, curse under my breath and then go and pick up the swarm. It?s pretty easy to make mistakes like not adding extra space at the right time or missing a swarm cell during an inspection or saying to yourself that you should get back into the bees soon and have a swarm come out that same day.

[Ben Framed]

Almost the same attitude here Les.. Most times we will find the swarm nearby, (if we are vigilant), and do not tarry in a making a fast recovery, or else they will be soon gone...

Phillip

[BeeMaster2]

Terri,
I used to have five empty stacked supers sitting next to my workshop. One day I decided to make it a swarm trap. I put one old drawn frame against one wall and nine empty frames to fill up the top box. A massive swarm came from quite a ways away and filled it up. It took about fifteen minutes for them to land and a lot longer to move in. I did not a chance to open it for ten days. They filled the top box and cross filled 12 inches of brand new comb under it.
Jim Altmiller

[BeeMaster2]

Here is a picture of it.


I had 3 large swarms move into this trap , one each year. They seemed to all come from the same direction.
I set up a similar trap in my barn here at the farm and caught another large swarm.

[Terri Yaki]

   Where's ma bees at?   

[Terri Yaki]

Here is a picture of it.


I had 3 large swarms move into this trap , one each year. They seemed to all come from the same direction.
I set up a similar trap in my barn here at the farm and caught another large swarm.

What do you do, just sit next to it and watch? How did you manage to see where they all came from and from how far?

[Ben Framed]

In my case it depends on location. Since there are no beekeepers in swarming distance of my apiaries, unless it's a feral hive swarming, I can just about rest assured it is coming from my own hives. During swarm season I am vigilant in watching the yards, both empty box colonies left for such a purpose, and tree limbs. These areas are viewed at least once a day. twice if time allows.. It has been my experience when the swarm first leaves the hive, they will not go far during that first flight in most cases.
If I find a swarm on a limb, I retrieve it asap. It has been my further experience the second time they fly from the limb, they will either go into an empty colony in my yard, or they will be gone with the wind.. I'd rather not take the chance. Once I watched a swarn do just that, leave on the second flight, up up and away, never to be seen again..

Just as Jim I have had them collect in my shop garage where boxes were stored without my knowing they had even swarmed, and to my pleasure, find my own marked queen from the season passed. We will know the year of the queen queen, by the color we mark new queens each season..

I expect in Beemaster2s' case there are probably plenty of other bees and beekeepers in his area of Florida? If so they might come to him from any direction...

I realize this did not completely answer your question by it may help, at least a little...

Phillip

[Spur9]

I suppose that I "let" my bees swarm, in that I do not perform any management techniques specifically to prevent swarming. I add queen excluders and supers in March to my hives.  I remove them in August and extract honey.  In fact, I do not inspect these hives at all.

I hive swarms and they are what I inspect and work with to get my beekeeping ?fix?.  I have plenty of boxes and drawn out frames for the swarms. I enjoy watching them grow and it is more fun to inspect young/small hives in the summer heat versus my established hives.

I have no doubt that I fail to hive every swarm from my apiary.  But I am ok with that.

[Ben Framed]

Spur you are vigilant in watching out for swarms while retrieving them which is your way of 'swarm management'. Don Kuchenmeister "The Fat Bee Man" Says bees do two basic things' Make honey and multiply.  Swarming is their way of multiplying. Of course they do much more than those two things in reality. But the point is each season just as Lesgold, I always have swarms also; I think it is fair to assume we all do.

As you, I really enjoy reterving swarms. JP The Beemans' avatar here at beemaster says; "I like doing cut-outs, but I love catching swarms!"  And JP is one of the most popular cut out folks on youtube, or was at least...
I can relate! I love catching swarms too! 

Spur you might enjoy the following topic if you might have missed it:
https://beemaster.com/forum/index.php?topic=54466.msg495006#msg495006

Phillip

[BeeMaster2]

Terri,
In the first year that I set it up, my wife asked me if I was going to keep a hive right next to my shop door. I said no why? She said it looks like you have a hive in that box. I went out and there were a whole lot of scout bees acting crazy around the entrance going in and out and dancing around the entrance. I knew they really liked the trap. I went in the workshop to wait, about 15 minutes later I could hear the swarm coming. I went outside and they were coming across my neighbors on the south side of the workshop, went around to the area in front and then started coming in. I had 3 swarm traps in this area so I put a lemon grass oil bottle on top of this hive to make sure they all went to it. I have had swarms split between traps.
I video taped it and my son put it on YouTube. I will see if it is still there and post a copy. 
Jim Altmiller

[BeeMaster2]

I think this is the second video. The first one showed the bees coming in from the house side of the workshop.

https://youtu.be/JcW0geAUi0Y?si=IwK-by91N5T8qIr6

It is a rather long video.
Jim Altmiller