Starting over again for the fourth time

[Robo]

Fair enough, I should explain better.

I have no doubt that bees abscond,  I have seen and heard many times newly hived swarms taking off.   I have no reason to doubt Michael Palmer's experience, but do find it interesting.  How do they now where they are going?  Do they send scouts about before they abscond?  If so, why don't swarms do the same?  Questions, questions, questions!

What I was trying to say is that I don't believe these late fall vanishing hives are absconding.  Regardless if the absconding bees go directly to a new home or cluster why the search out a new home is incidental as I have yet to hear of a late season colony moving into any structure.

I have inspected a few of these late season vanishings  and they seem to have scattered capped brood left.  After digging out the pupa I found a large amount with deformed wings.   Interestingly enough,  there were not any significant amount of varroa on the bottom boards.

[Van, Arkansas, USA]

Robo {I have inspected a few of these late season vanishings  and they seem to have scattered capped brood left.  After digging out the pupa I found a large amount with deformed wings.   Interestingly enough,  there were not any significant amount of varroa on the bottom boards.}

Exactly what happened to an extremely large hive, late August, 2017 in my Apiary.

The details:  the bes just vanished, left behind capped Honey, no eggs, no larva, a few cells of capped brood.  The hive did show signs of deformed wing virus, one of two positive hives for virus out of total 18 hives.   I immediately treated the empty hive with OA vapor, hundred plus mite drop from the EMPTY hive.

This hive was a 2 year old double deep Lang. hive 80% capacity with bees and had several frames of capped Honey which most was taken when the bees departed.    Apparently, do to the fact there were no eggs, no larva, this was a planned abscond as the queen quit laying in advance of departure.  I was planning on treating this hive in another 2 weeks, obliviously I was to late.

[moebees]

Yes they leave behind a smattering of capped brood and large stores of honey and pollen.  I would not be surprised if it is related to viruses, varroa, or both.  But where they go is a mystery.  All I am saying is they don't behave like a swarm so I don't consider it swarming.   I cannot answer any of your questions Robo.   It could be just a mass suicide for all I know.  It is very strange and seemingly self destructive.   I'm not sure how one could go about investigating it either.

[Robo]

It could be just a mass suicide for all I know.

That is what I'm leaning torward, kinda.   Not so much suicide but mass die off.  Bees tend to leave the hive to die and not leave the burden of removing their remains on the rest of the colony.   Could it be that the "culprit"  (virus, disease, etc) causes death of the queen and the workers slowly get sick and fly off to die?   Not like a pesticide poisoning that is quick and the dying bees can only get out the entrance,  but a slower death that allows them to fly away.

[FlexMedia.tv]

It's great that you aren't giving up. I'm a beginner so I can't answer all your questions. What type of bees have you been getting? From my research Carniolan bees do well in cold weather. That's the type I got a week ago on Saturday.

LizzieBee

I have tried the Carolina bees but only once

[FlexMedia.tv]

[/quote]

G'day... welcome back Trooper :-))
Soooo... 100% loss?
Any clues in the debris...?...I recall there were moisture troubles
in at least one colony?

Bill
[/quote]

Bill,
Good to be back Bill. It's that darn day job! *wink!*
The only debris I could find were sick looking bees and wax moths in the one. The other just looked like they froze. There were a few wax moths but only under the screened bottom board. You are right. There was mold but only in the hive I built. I only stained it and when the stain went the mold came.

[FlexMedia.tv]

I'm glad you haven't given up. 

I would say if you got them, use them.  With that honey and drawn frames, you shouldn't have to feed your packages much.

CAO,
All in the brood box or should I save a few for the mediums?

[FlexMedia.tv]

Nope, into my 6th year of beekeeping I'm still consider a newbie. 

Believe me, me too!I will study some of these tips. A little beyond my skill level at the moment!
Thanks!
AW

[FlexMedia.tv]

Stop with the packages ...

Acebird,
Already have 2 packages for pick up in 2 weeks. There is a club member selling nucs and I was going to get one but I haven't heard anything. Somebody said there may not be enough of a food source in my area.

Thanks
AW

[FlexMedia.tv]

  I'm guessing that beekeeping is pretty challenging in your region and appropriate local experience would be invaluable.

Very best of luck for the coming season.
LJ

(*) You can still use the same boxes - simply make an eke of the right height to fit underneath them.

Little John. Good to hear from you again!. It is very challenging. Several club members have lost several hives. some have 4 lost 3,  2 lost one etc. I plan to use the same boxes. Didn't know about the frames because of the diseases, but I froze them. I have to get these girls to stop leaving me!

[FlexMedia.tv]

Why are your bees swarming?  If your bees really are swarming every year then I?d remedy that first. A first year hive should not be swarming unless something goes wrong.

Every year every hive! I have sat outside and watched 3 of them swarm. One went to the adjacent tree but it was too high. (I'm afraid of heights albeit 2 feet is too high for me!) One went to the same tree, I had to cut the limb, made a mistake and dropped it. I put as many as I could in but apparently not the queen. They all left the next morning. The other flew way off. I've been told new hives don't swarm but all mine do. I give them plenty of room, they don't start on the next upper frames and they still swarm. I caught a swarm in a trap. 1/2 swarmed again. I combined that with a week hive using the newspaper. They lived but didn't expand and died. I have use queen excluders then didn't use them.  I have not tried that excluder on the bottom yet. When I check there are these beautiful queen cells that give me a hint but I don't know what to do when they do that.  I haven't destroyed them because somebody on this forum said it's best not to. very puzzling my friend!

[FlexMedia.tv]

A first year hive should not be swarming unless something goes wrong.

I agree with this which is why he doesn't need to buy more than one hive to solve the problem.  He does need to solve the problem though.  I suspect he is feeding at the wrong time or for the wrong reason which encourages brood rearing.  The hive gets jammed and they go.  But that is just a guess.

Hard to pinpoint because sometimes I feed and other hives I don't. That's not good feedback when they all die. I haven't use pollen patties which I now have if I need them. I never see more than a few frames of honey that I leave for the winter. I have a bunch untouched to use again this year. I have switched out a brood frame or two to try to motivate the queen to go to the next level. Didn't work. It didn't work when I put a frame of honey in the empty super for encouragement, didn't work. Helps to have patience for sure!

[FlexMedia.tv]

Flex..... you can get your nuc's or packages here. They have training and will teach you how to manage your hives. I have rarely, if at all had a problem getting package from them to over winter here in Michigan. Carniolan is what I would get.
https://mailchi.mp/turtlebeefarms/honeybees-wow-3-lb-packages-99-up?e=3efdd6a172

Hello again Bill. I just may! Clare can be colder that Perrinton for sure!

[cao]

CAO,
All in the brood box or should I save a few for the mediums?

I am of the opinion that, if you have drawn comb, use it.  I have about 3 boxes of partially filled frames from some of my hives that didn't make it this winter.  They will be the first frames that I will use when I make my splits this year.  Hopefully the weather will allow me to make some later this week.  I've already heard about a couple of swarms in the area.  The sooner you get the drawn comb back in hives with bees the sooner you don't have to worry about wax moths and other creatures destroying them.

[FlexMedia.tv]

I am a long way away from Michigan, but for your location you need to do a " bee feed"/ botanical audit of what flowers when, does it yield pollen and nectar or just one or the other.

I know of one other close who I have been planning to talk to. Our club has a lot of dealings with MSU. I have a booklet of what flowers should be around. Still studying that! :-)

[FlexMedia.tv]

Although I agree with most of the previous comments,  I will just add if you have not been treating for varroa mites, that is your biggest problem.   Without addressing that,  all the other recommendation will be for not.

Robo
Doing it this year.  first time

[FlexMedia.tv]

Mites don't cause swarming or starvation.  If he is buying mite bombs he needs to find another supplier.

I haven't used anything yet...

[FlexMedia.tv]

I don't know if ya'll have a Small Hive Beetle problem in Michigan but we sure do down here.

We have them but that's the only thing I have not had so keep your voice down! LOL!

[FlexMedia.tv]

CAO,
All in the brood box or should I save a few for the mediums?

I am of the opinion that, if you have drawn comb, use it.  I have about 3 boxes of partially filled frames from some of my hives that didn't make it this winter.  They will be the first frames that I will use when I make my splits this year.  Hopefully the weather will allow me to make some later this week.  I've already heard about a couple of swarms in the area.  The sooner you get the drawn comb back in hives with bees the sooner you don't have to worry about wax moths and other creatures destroying them.

I pick up my packages in two weeks. It's still snowing here!

[FlexMedia.tv]

Why are your bees swarming?  If your bees really are swarming every year then I?d remedy that first. A first year hive should not be swarming unless something goes wrong.

Bush, this is an old pic but I usually get a lot of Queen cells



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