Does anyone have a Layen's hive?

[Bob Wilson]

I had the opportunity to receive a new, unused 14 frame Layen's hive. It seems like they are kept with the same basic management practices as long hives or top bar hives. Any other people keeping them?

[Occam]

What a great opportunity! I'm interested in them as well but I've never used one

[Bob Wilson]

I will throw some bees in it in March and give the thing a try.

[The15thMember]

Wow, that's awesome!  It will be interesting to hear how the bees do in it. 

[Bob Wilson]

This Layens hive that I was given holds 14 frames. Does anyone have one with more frames than that?

[BeeMaster2]

Bob, how deep is that hive? Does it have 16 inch deep frames?
I have someone bringing a 16 inch deep hive to BeeFest.
Jim Altmiller

[Bob Wilson]

Hey, Jim.
Yes. It is 16X13 inches (DXW).
I think I have seen 20 frame Layens hives on YouTube, but this one has 14, which is apparently the standard.
-- I don't understand this.
It has less volume than my 4ft long hives with langstroth deep frames, and I already have questions about enough space for the bees to cure honey without backfilling the brood nest.
That one issue is my primary experiment with my long hives this year, and I suppose with this Layens also.

[Bob Wilson]

I am going to take off this wax sheeting and run it foundationless like the rest of my hives.

[Michael Bush]

You might want to put a skewer vertically in the center to support the comb.  Having that deep of a comb may need some support.

[Bob Wilson]

Yes, I agree Michael.
The guy who gave it to me had already wired them. The way the foundation is sagging, I can easily imagine foundationless comb collapse.

[Bob Wilson]

I ripped a 2x6 and attached it to the side of the Layen's frame and added a frame rest.
It fits in my extra deep langstroth swarm boxes. If I catch a swarm, I will put the other langstroth deep frames into my long hives, but then disassemble the Layen's frame (with the queen) and populate this hive.

[Bob Wilson]

I also cut down the comb from 2 deep frames and fit it into the Layen's frame so the swarm's queen can immediately start laying on that one frame when she moves in.

[Bob Wilson]

I found a swarm low near the ground. Now, I don't have to rely on the adapted swarm trap frame. I was able to shake the queen into the Layens hive and let the swarm follow her inside, where I have some old comb wired into one of the frames.

[Occam]

That's fantastic!

[Acebird]

I saw the 18 in frames demonstrated at Beefest.  Not for me.  I hate using deeps.
Bob, you think you can get the bees to run 18 inches of comb straight without foundation?  Wish you luck.  I never had either hive but I would go with your drawn comb even if it is just the top deep section.

[Bob Wilson]

This isn't a double deep langstroth hive (19wX18h). I would think that would have a lot of comb collapse.
This is a Layen's hive. (13wX16h) if I remember the size. I received it free from a fellow I helped earlier, so I figured why not try it on the side, so to speak.
I never have any cross comb trouble with foundationless standard deep frames in any of my hives or nucs, so I don't expect any trouble with these. We shall see.

[BeeMaster2]

Ace,
I still have that double deep hive.
I put  the one frame of drawn comb up against the right wall and foundation less frames in the rest of the hive. We caught swarm from the observation hive the day after BeeFest was knee.  At first they only covered two and a half frames. Now they cover five frames. They are doing  real well.
Jim Altmiller

[Bob Wilson]

Well, Acebird. I spoke too soon.
The swarm which I put in the Layens hive ignored the starter strips in the foundationless frames and built cross comb. It was a mess, but I got it cut out and rubber banded strait in the frames.
My problem here is that the Layens is new to me, and these are the very first combs. Give me a month or two, and when I have a few full frames to use, I won't have anymore of this cross comb business.
My one issue now is that with a langstroth deep frame (9in), any comb I rubber band into place is not far from the top of the frame, but these Layen's frames (16in) are taller, and they may build cross comb at the top again, even though there is straight comb at the bottom.

[jimineycricket]

My one issue now is that with a langstroth deep frame (9in), any comb I rubber band into place is not far from the top of the frame, but these Layen's frames (16in) are taller, and they may build cross comb at the top again, even though there is straight comb at the bottom.

   Bob, could you maybe put a temporary stick under the shorter comb to hold it next to the top until the bees glue it tight?

[The15thMember]

Well, Acebird. I spoke too soon.
The swarm which I put in the Layens hive ignored the starter strips in the foundationless frames and built cross comb. It was a mess, but I got it cut out and rubber banded strait in the frames.
My problem here is that the Layens is new to me, and these are the very first combs. Give me a month or two, and when I have a few full frames to use, I won't have anymore of this cross comb business.
My one issue now is that with a langstroth deep frame (9in), any comb I rubber band into place is not far from the top of the frame, but these Layen's frames (16in) are taller, and they may build cross comb at the top again, even though there is straight comb at the bottom.

If you just try and piecemeal it as best you can, they should be fine once you have a couple of frames nicely built.  It's a lot of work, but I just cut and pasted for my first colonies, and it worked out fine.  I've still never used foundation.

   Bob, could you maybe put a temporary stick under the shorter comb to hold it next to the top until the bees glue it tight?

That's not a bad idea.