Welcome, Guest
Login or Register
Home
« previous next »
Pages: [1] 2  All   Go Down

Author Topic: Drones this late?  (Read 3987 times)

Offline Ben Framed

  • Global Moderator
  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 12691
  • Mississippi Zone 7
Drones this late?
« on: December 11, 2019, 11:35:00 am »
In my location we have already had temperatures as low as 18F. In fact it was 28F last night. What puzzles me, is that the day before yesterday I was still seeing drones entering and leaving one of my hives. Is this Par for the course? Why have these drones not already been evicted and dead? This brings another question. We know worker bees die within so many weeks, yet winter workers last for months. Can this same phenomenon happen with drones as well as workers if drones are allowed to stay through the winter? Will these late season drones still be fertile? If these drones are not Evicted and allowed to stay in the hives and live through the winter, can they breed in the spring? Many questions I know.
Thanks,
Phillip
Logged
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline Nock

  • Field Bee
  • ***
  • Posts: 631
  • Gender: Male
Re: Drones this late?
« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2019, 11:42:17 am »
Good question. I would think so.
Logged

Offline Ben Framed

  • Global Moderator
  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 12691
  • Mississippi Zone 7
Re: Drones this late?
« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2019, 11:47:05 am »
Quote from: Nock on December 11, 2019, 11:42:17 am
Good question. I would think so.

Thanks Nock. I do not know how long these drones will live but I realize they have already lived and allowed to stay longer than I had expected. Unless they hatched or emerged in Early November?  Even still should they have not already been evicted? Which leads back to the can of worms questions originally posted.
Logged
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Online Michael Bush

  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 19931
  • Gender: Male
    • bushfarms.com
Re: Drones this late?
« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2019, 11:58:17 am »
My bees keep a few drones all year around.  They get rid of most of them once there is a fall freeze.
Logged
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm en espanol: bushfarms.com/es_bees.htm  auf deutsche: bushfarms.com/de_bees.htm  em portugues:  bushfarms.com/pt_bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
-------------------
"Everything works if you let it."--James "Big Boy" Medlin

Offline Ben Framed

  • Global Moderator
  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 12691
  • Mississippi Zone 7
Re: Drones this late?
« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2019, 12:01:42 pm »
Quote from: Michael Bush on December 11, 2019, 11:58:17 am
My bees keep a few drones all year around.  They get rid of most of them once there is a fall freeze.

I had noticed some being evicted  a week or so ago and was surprised to see some still there and active two days ago.
Logged
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline Ben Framed

  • Global Moderator
  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 12691
  • Mississippi Zone 7
Re: Drones this late?
« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2019, 12:06:47 pm »
Quote from: Ben Framed on December 11, 2019, 12:01:42 pm
Quote from: Michael Bush on December 11, 2019, 11:58:17 am
My bees keep a few drones all year around.  They get rid of most of them once there is a fall freeze.

I had noticed some being evicted  a week or so ago and was surprised to see some still there and active two days ago.

I also noticed that some of the drones were very light colored and some were dark. I suppose that early queens will have a better chance to be mated with the assurance of older drones still around this spring.
Thanks Phillip
Logged
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline Ben Framed

  • Global Moderator
  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 12691
  • Mississippi Zone 7
Re: Drones this late?
« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2019, 12:10:39 pm »
Where I erred, I was under the impression drones would be missing from hives through the winter months. As most information that I had studied had pointed to those conclusions.  It?s  Fun learning!
Thanks,
Phillip
« Last Edit: December 11, 2019, 12:26:51 pm by Ben Framed »
Logged
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Online Michael Bush

  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 19931
  • Gender: Male
    • bushfarms.com
Re: Drones this late?
« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2019, 12:30:23 pm »
With commercial Italian bees i never saw any drones over winter.  With feral survivor stock I do.
Logged
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm en espanol: bushfarms.com/es_bees.htm  auf deutsche: bushfarms.com/de_bees.htm  em portugues:  bushfarms.com/pt_bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
-------------------
"Everything works if you let it."--James "Big Boy" Medlin

Offline van from Arkansas

  • Super Bee
  • *****
  • Posts: 1900
  • Gender: Male
  • Van from Arkansas.
Re: Drones this late?
« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2019, 12:36:15 pm »
Good morning Mr. BenFramed.

I have seen hives over winter drones.  Kind of a rare event, it happens contrary to the norm.

The question regarding breeding quality of the overwintered drone.  I have not seen any research that addresses this question.  I will provide a summary of research I have studied regarding breeding viability of drones.

Viability of drone spermozoa is reduced by summer heat when a hive is subject to extreme temps from direct sunlight.  Temperature studies suggest that all semon is sensitive to heat, mammals to insects.  A drone in a hot summer hive is still of breeding quality but not as full prime as a drone not exposed to heat extremes.

The spermatheca, holding sperm sack, of a queen actually provides nutrients to maintain viability of the stored spermatozoa thus lasting the queen for years. [I just read this recently] Thus most semon can cryogenically be maintained at -80F for ,,,, well,,, the time is unknown.  Honey bee spermatozoa require special conditions for cryo that were recently discovered allowing cryo storage.  Dr. Colby, bee geneticists, ships semon via the mail, very successfully I might add.  In summation, heat is a factor affecting the breeding quality of a drone.  So, an overwintered drone, although not specifically studied, the data suggest the drones should be of quality the following Spring.
Blessings
Van
Logged
I have been around bees a long time, since birth.  I am a hobbyist so my answers often reflect this fact.  I concentrate on genetics, raise my own queens by wet graft, nicot, with natural or II breeding.  I do not sell queens, I will give queens  for free but no shipping.

Offline Ben Framed

  • Global Moderator
  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 12691
  • Mississippi Zone 7
Re: Drones this late?
« Reply #9 on: December 11, 2019, 12:44:07 pm »
Awesome! Thanks Mr Van
Logged
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline The15thMember

  • Global Moderator
  • Galactic Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 4502
  • Gender: Female
  • Traveler of the Multiverse, Seeker of Knowledge
Re: Drones this late?
« Reply #10 on: December 11, 2019, 12:46:47 pm »
Could seeing drones in the winter be an indication of a failing queen?  I've heard that sometimes hives will maintain a small patch of brood through the winter, and I'm just wondering if seeing drones could be an indication that the queen is laying only unfertilized eggs. 
Logged
I come from under the hill, and under the hills and over the hills my paths led.  And through the air, I am she that walks unseen.

Offline Ben Framed

  • Global Moderator
  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 12691
  • Mississippi Zone 7
Re: Drones this late?
« Reply #11 on: December 11, 2019, 12:49:43 pm »
Quote from: Michael Bush on December 11, 2019, 12:30:23 pm
With commercial Italian bees i never saw any drones over winter.  With feral survivor stock I do.

I can not say which these are Mr Bush, I did do some cutouts when I started 20 months ago. Which I believe to be from freal survivor stock as the homeowner knew of no beekeeper in her rural area. I also ordered some queens for Barnyard bees that were lite in color. Making late fall splits that first fall.  Feral bees were darker colored and both type bees were very gentle as far a bees are concerned.
Phillip
Logged
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline Ben Framed

  • Global Moderator
  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 12691
  • Mississippi Zone 7
Re: Drones this late?
« Reply #12 on: December 11, 2019, 12:55:06 pm »
Quote from: The15thMember on December 11, 2019, 12:46:47 pm
Could seeing drones in the winter be an indication of a failing queen?  I've heard that sometimes hives will maintain a small patch of brood through the winter, and I'm just wondering if seeing drones could be an indication that the queen is laying only unfertilized eggs.

Points I had not considered Member, seems viable points to me. But I certainly hope not!
 :shocked:  :grin:
I am counting of these queens to make it through the winter as I am anxious to split, split, split.
 :cheesy:
Phillip

« Last Edit: December 11, 2019, 01:11:35 pm by Ben Framed »
Logged
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline Ben Framed

  • Global Moderator
  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 12691
  • Mississippi Zone 7
Re: Drones this late?
« Reply #13 on: December 11, 2019, 12:58:16 pm »
Mr Van being the winter weather is cold in our area, the drones may very well come through the winter potent breeders! Thanks for the good information! Thanks to each of you.
Phillip
Logged
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline Ben Framed

  • Global Moderator
  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 12691
  • Mississippi Zone 7
Re: Drones this late?
« Reply #14 on: December 11, 2019, 12:59:05 pm »
Nock, this puts you right on target.
Logged
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Online Michael Bush

  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 19931
  • Gender: Male
    • bushfarms.com
Re: Drones this late?
« Reply #15 on: December 11, 2019, 01:11:02 pm »
>Could seeing drones in the winter be an indication of a failing queen?

Actually it could be, but not because the queen is laying just drone eggs, but because drones are attracted to colonies that are queenless or have failing queens and queenless hives seldom throw out drones.  But I see them in queenright overwintering colonies.
Logged
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm en espanol: bushfarms.com/es_bees.htm  auf deutsche: bushfarms.com/de_bees.htm  em portugues:  bushfarms.com/pt_bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
-------------------
"Everything works if you let it."--James "Big Boy" Medlin

Offline van from Arkansas

  • Super Bee
  • *****
  • Posts: 1900
  • Gender: Male
  • Van from Arkansas.
Re: Drones this late?
« Reply #16 on: December 11, 2019, 01:11:07 pm »
Member, good question.  Answer, well, yes, drones could be a sign of a failed queen.

However, I assure you, I have seen overwintered drones in a hive with a healthy itialian queen, a queen I raised and recognized. This is a rare event and I don?t have an explanation.  The drones were colored typical as the hive they were in.  I have no way of knowing which queen the drones were from.  Bees don?t always go by the book is all I can add.  I could give examples, texting pages of examples of honey bee surprise behavior I have witnessed.

There is an old saying that I have used myself: THE BEES KNOW BEST.  Actually, this is not correct as I have seen bees generate a queen from 2nd instar larva*when 1st instar larva was available.  *Instar, stages of larva that have shed their skin.

Blessings

I will add, the size of a queens ovaries are directly proportional to the age of the larva selected for rearing.  First instar, max 24 hours are critical for producing a quality queen.  2nd instar and older larva generate queens that are inferior; poor layers, small queens, queens that fail.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2019, 01:22:01 pm by van from Arkansas »
Logged
I have been around bees a long time, since birth.  I am a hobbyist so my answers often reflect this fact.  I concentrate on genetics, raise my own queens by wet graft, nicot, with natural or II breeding.  I do not sell queens, I will give queens  for free but no shipping.

Offline Ben Framed

  • Global Moderator
  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 12691
  • Mississippi Zone 7
Re: Drones this late?
« Reply #17 on: December 11, 2019, 01:12:07 pm »
Quote from: Ben Framed on December 11, 2019, 12:55:06 pm
Quote from: The15thMember on December 11, 2019, 12:46:47 pm
Could seeing drones in the winter be an indication of a failing queen?  I've heard that sometimes hives will maintain a small patch of brood through the winter, and I'm just wondering if seeing drones could be an indication that the queen is laying only unfertilized eggs.

Points I had not considered Member, seems viable points to me. But I certainly hope not!
 :shocked:  :grin:
I am counting of these queens to make it through the winter as I am anxious to split, split, split.
 :cheesy:
Phillip


Member has sparked some more questions from me. If the queens of hives described above are failing, can the bees; do the bees, attempt to raise a new queen in the colder months in my area?  I know this question may seem way out there but I think it is a good question, maybe a question that has been overlooked throughout beekeeping because the possibilities are off of the beaten path,(wayyyy off the beaten path), The drones fly, why could not a virgin do the same? I believe she could, but could they successfully mate, say if the temperature could reach 70 or above or for that matter even lower, much lower, on those rare warmer days when bees do fly? What are your thought Mr Van? Mr Bush? Member? Nock? anyone else? Perhaps some of you may have facts concerning these questions?
Thanks everyone,
Phillip Hall


,
Logged
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline van from Arkansas

  • Super Bee
  • *****
  • Posts: 1900
  • Gender: Male
  • Van from Arkansas.
Re: Drones this late?
« Reply #18 on: December 11, 2019, 01:38:11 pm »
Phil, a hive must have young nurse bees to raise a queen. An overwintered hive has no young nurse bees.  Only nurse bees can produce Royal jelly and in time the gland that produce Royal jelly degenerates and the nurse bees seek other duties.

Last year, I had a hive overwinter that was queenless come spring.  So I added a frame of capped brood.  After the brood hatched and the hive now had nurse bees, I provided eggs.  A queen was made, mated and the hive is present to this day.  The key point is I had to first make nurse bees.
Blessings
Logged
I have been around bees a long time, since birth.  I am a hobbyist so my answers often reflect this fact.  I concentrate on genetics, raise my own queens by wet graft, nicot, with natural or II breeding.  I do not sell queens, I will give queens  for free but no shipping.

Offline Ben Framed

  • Global Moderator
  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 12691
  • Mississippi Zone 7
Re: Drones this late?
« Reply #19 on: December 11, 2019, 01:45:06 pm »
Quote from: van from Arkansas on December 11, 2019, 01:38:11 pm
Phil, a hive must have young nurse bees to raise a queen. An overwintered hive has no young nurse bees.  Only nurse bees can produce Royal jelly and in time the gland that produce Royal jelly degenerates and the nurse bees seek other duties.

Last year, I had a hive overwinter that was queenless come spring.  So I added a frame of capped brood.  After the brood hatched and the hive now had nurse bees, I provided eggs.  A queen was made, mated and the hive is present to this day.  The key point is I had to first make nurse bees.
Blessings

Very good point Mr Van. I did consider this about nurse bees, as I understand it bees will continue to raise a small amount of bees throughout the winter months. I am thinking theoratolicy, that there may be just enough nurse bees to get the job done?  I should have added, that I am feeding open pollen on the days that are over 43 degrees and the bees are all over it. This may be another reason that the drones have bees spared the boot in the numbers that I have?
Phillip
Logged
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.
Pages: [1] 2  All   Go Up
« previous next »