Author Topic: Why not a horizontal Langstroth? (Read 23487 times)

Better.to.Bee.than.not · « **on:** May 18, 2014, 02:44:00 am »

Was reading another thread and seen the mention of it, so am curious. why would anyone want to go with a TBH, instead of for instance a horizontal langstroth? IE the typical dimensions of a langstroth, except instead of building hive box on top of hive boxe, instead build as a trough like a TBH does. One would have frames, which we should all agree supports the comb better, helps prevent them attaching comb to the sides/etc. one would not have to lift full heavy chambers, so gains the benefit of a TBH, doesn't have to disturb a whole chamber doing inspections/etc,etc.

I imagine one could even build these at sort of a angle, also which I cannot help but think the bees would like personally.

charlie b · « **Reply #1 on:** May 18, 2014, 09:48:54 am »

Here's my first proto type---took out viewing window, will lengthen the roof. It designed to hold 11 brood frames and 17 honey......
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10152339795662454&set=pb.793507453.-2207520000.1400417199.&type=3&theater

AR Beekeeper · « **Reply #2 on:** May 18, 2014, 02:50:01 pm »

The hive you are speaking of was built in the late 1800's by a Kentucky beekeeper names Adiar. It became known as the Long-Idea hive. This type hive was used by a commercial beekeeper named O.O. Poppleton in Florida up to the 1920's. He had between 300 - 800 in use at various times.

annette · « **Reply #3 on:** May 18, 2014, 03:56:06 pm »

I would purchase one immediately if I could find one for sale. Always thought it would be much better than the TBH which doesn't have a full frame to support the comb.

Joe D · « **Reply #4 on:** May 19, 2014, 02:28:36 am »

Was going to make one this year, haven't got to it yet. My TBH, the trough style, has frames that I made. On mine the bees will attach comb part of the way down, but not all the way usually.

Joe

Better.to.Bee.than.not · « **Reply #5 on:** May 19, 2014, 09:24:43 am »

That looks awesome charlie. totally new, or have you run it with bees yet? for me I think I would have to have a view window cover/insulator at the very least, and do you have individual caps on each of the frame is that what I am seeing in that picture?

Billy B · « **Reply #6 on:** May 19, 2014, 02:38:03 pm »

One of the other differences, typically, is that in the top bar hive, the bars are flush to one another, effectively closing off access to the space above. This is unlike a Langstroth frame in which the side bars are wider than the top bars and so create a gap that allows bees to travel up and down.

Having the bars flush in the topbar hive allows you to essentially keep the hive more ore less closed, except to the bar you are inspecting and the face of the next bar (though of course the bees can travel around the sides and bottom of the combs). So if this aspect of the design is important to you, then you would want to create custom frames, or otherwise create a cover. Some folks just use a cloth for this purpose and roll it up as they progress through an inspection. Also of note here, is that a lot of top bar hives have a large cavity between the top of the bars and the roof. The bees can't access the cavity because the bars are flush. If using standard frames the bees would have access to the cavity and would start building away. So, the roof design needs to be more similar to a standard Langstroth as well.

HomeSteadDreamer · « **Reply #7 on:** May 19, 2014, 04:03:58 pm »

ditto what billy said. I like not exposing the whole hive at once. That being said. I want to try a long lang as I think it would also work well. I don't have too much trouble with bad comb but I like the frame Idea and being compatible with other langs even though I don't have bee friends to swap equipment with. Eventually I'd like to make a Nuc or two to sell to help with the bee population management (keep the numbers down) and make a little money to offset expenses.

charlie b · « **Reply #8 on:** May 19, 2014, 07:50:37 pm »

Quote from: Better.to.Bee.than.not on May 19, 2014, 09:24:43 am

and do you have individual caps on each of the frame is that what I am seeing in that picture?

That is what you are seeing and will answer the questions on the other posts as well...I considered the TB design and made special covers for each frame...This way, it works just like a TB. No gap between frames when working the hive.....

annette · « **Reply #9 on:** May 20, 2014, 12:59:43 am »

Quote from: charlie b on May 18, 2014, 09:48:54 am

Here's my first proto type---took out viewing window, will lengthen the roof. It designed to hold 11 brood frames and 17 honey......
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10152339795662454&set=pb.793507453.-2207520000.1400417199.&type=3&theater

That is very nice looking

charlie b · « **Reply #10 on:** May 20, 2014, 06:41:06 am »

[/quote]

That is very nice looking
[/quote]
Thank you.

Better.to.Bee.than.not · « **Reply #11 on:** May 20, 2014, 10:15:30 am »

Brilliant. Now I sorta wanna give it a go also. I like the idea of the individual 'caps' for each frame too. or maybe a cap that covers 3-4 frames at the same time even. probably won't rush to build one this week, but it's a thought.

marktrl · « **Reply #12 on:** June 01, 2014, 06:49:11 pm »

I've been using a couple of long hives for 3 years.
Some pics:

I made them 35" high (counter top height) which is easy on the back. The bees tend to swam easier, they have never used all the space from end to end. If I ever decide to make any more I would make it to use medium frames.

Better.to.Bee.than.not · « **Reply #13 on:** June 01, 2014, 07:46:49 pm »

so what do you have it built to now to use deep frames? for my langstroth, my deeps are 9-5/8" my mediums are 6-5/8" and I also use super deeps with deep frames that are like 11-3/4", but I do not do that regularly I just decided to do it for kicks on a few hives. I honestly have no complaints about it either really, ,but your chambers seem fairly deep to me, but what do you mean by, you would make them to use mediums?

buzzbee · « **Reply #14 on:** June 01, 2014, 09:21:40 pm »

The benefit to the top bars in poor countries were that they need very little material or skill to fabricate.
Michael Bush has used long hives and discusses them on his site.
http://www.bushfarms.com/beeshorizontalhives.htm
Check the different type of topbars too:
http://www.bushfarms.com/beestopbarhives.htm

marktrl · « **Reply #15 on:** June 01, 2014, 11:46:05 pm »

Better.to.Bee.than.not, I use standard deep frames. The chambers look deeper because there is a bottom frame the the screen sets on with a little space under the frames and I have oil trays under them. They are about 48 3/4" long. I use 3 regular inner covers. If I had made them shallower for medium frames I think they would use all 34 frames instead of just 26-28 they've that they have maxed on.

Better.to.Bee.than.not · « **Reply #16 on:** June 02, 2014, 01:06:48 am »

Thanks Marktri. gives me something more to think about.

minz · « **Reply #17 on:** June 03, 2014, 06:55:46 pm »

My kid won one at the beek picknic last year (August). I built some follower boards and was going to use it as a big queen castle. I caught a swarm in a trap end of the month and put it in there. I used the follower board to keep the area to what they could use and have not checked it. Mine has two inner covers to expose half of the hive at a time.

BlueBee · « **Reply #18 on:** June 03, 2014, 09:49:02 pm »

I’m hoping to get one built this summer. I believe TBeek has a wood based long hive in N Wisconsin that he really likes. If I build one, it will be out of foam and use medium frames.

Judd · « **Reply #19 on:** June 22, 2014, 04:48:15 pm »

Hello, newbie to TBH idea but think it is an interesting concept. Now the ideas of using the Langstroth frames appeals to me. I asked in an older thread so I'l ask here as well... Do folks plann on using foundation with the frames. I was under the impression part of the TBH idea was to have the bees build their own wax. Thanks