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Author Topic: Big Lies  (Read 61031 times)

Online Ben Framed

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Re: Big Lies
« Reply #640 on: April 09, 2021, 05:45:51 am »
Read your own link, after you read my post correctly.

"All Swiss men over the age of 18 undergo basic military training, after which they remain part of a national "militia" until they are around 30. They keep their unloaded service weapons at home during this time, and when their service has ended they have the choice of keeping their personal weapon, as long as they first acquire a permit. Women can also volunteer for national service.""

First, my post says everyone where it should say all men. VERY small discrepancy, since it is allowed for women also, on a voluntary basis. It doesn't say for all their life, but it is required for the years they are most capable of using it, and they are allowed to keep it for life. Overall, the results show it works well.


Hum
Maybe it?s time for Cider to retreat for a spot of tea?  :wink:
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Online Ben Framed

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Re: Big Lies
« Reply #641 on: April 09, 2021, 06:16:26 am »
I see my long distance cousin has wisely taken my advice. He has retreated and now offline. Enjoy your tea old chap. But a little advise, don?t turn the heat up quite as high as Iddee was forced to do! Talk to you soon ole red coat friend.  :grin: :cheesy:
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Offline Kathyp

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Re: Big Lies
« Reply #642 on: April 09, 2021, 01:23:24 pm »
None of the international debate matters.  In this country, it is the law that people be able to be armed.  When the guy who is sworn to uphold the constitution says that "No amendment is absolute" he is not doing what he has sworn to do.

If the people of the nation want to change the law, they can do so.  Given the number of new gun owners just over the last year, I'd say that the people are happy with a law that allows them to be armed if they choose to be armed.  5 million NEW gun owners in 2020.  How do we know this?  Because in spite of the lies of the left, people go through background checks to purchase a weapon. 

Not one of the things he has done or plans to do would stop any of the shootings.  What would?  Tossing people in jail and keeping them there, as most gun murders are done with handguns by known gang bangers and criminals.  Enforcing the laws already on the books for guns and other weapons crimes.

Here are the stats on murders by means.  You can see where they will go with this after their "assult weapons" ban, and other nutty things don't work. 
https://www.statista.com/statistics/195325/murder-victims-in-the-us-by-weapon-used/

This is from 2019 so it does not take into account some of the nasty stuff we saw by the "mostly peaceful" protests in 2020. Those things are the reason for the 5 million new gun owners.
They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline cidersabuzzin

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Re: Big Lies
« Reply #643 on: April 09, 2021, 02:19:18 pm »
I see my long distance cousin has wisely taken my advice. He has retreated and now offline. Enjoy your tea old chap. But a little advise, don?t turn the heat up quite as high as Iddee was forced to do! Talk to you soon ole red coat friend.  :grin: :cheesy:
I was off-line because I had better things to do, ie, going for a walk with one of my daughters, much more interesting. :grin:
Cup of coffee at a cafe though.
Not everything revolves around 'threads' thank God!
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Offline cidersabuzzin

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Re: Big Lies
« Reply #644 on: April 09, 2021, 02:26:41 pm »
None of the international debate matters.  In this country, it is the law that people be able to be armed.  When the guy who is sworn to uphold the constitution says that "No amendment is absolute" he is not doing what he has sworn to do.

If the people of the nation want to change the law, they can do so.  Given the number of new gun owners just over the last year, I'd say that the people are happy with a law that allows them to be armed if they choose to be armed.  5 million NEW gun owners in 2020.  How do we know this?  Because in spite of the lies of the left, people go through background checks to purchase a weapon. 

Not one of the things he has done or plans to do would stop any of the shootings.  What would?  Tossing people in jail and keeping them there, as most gun murders are done with handguns by known gang bangers and criminals.  Enforcing the laws already on the books for guns and other weapons crimes.

Here are the stats on murders by means.  You can see where they will go with this after their "assult weapons" ban, and other nutty things don't work. 
https://www.statista.com/statistics/195325/murder-victims-in-the-us-by-weapon-used/

This is from 2019 so it does not take into account some of the nasty stuff we saw by the "mostly peaceful" protests in 2020. Those things are the reason for the 5 million new gun owners.
How do you explain Japans 0.2% or Germanys 0.9%? or is it just an inconvenience?
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Offline iddee

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Re: Big Lies
« Reply #645 on: April 09, 2021, 03:48:54 pm »
How about "an exception to every rule?" Ever heard that. With 99+% one way, the other way shouldn't be followed 100%,IMHO.
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*

Online Ben Framed

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Re: Big Lies
« Reply #646 on: April 09, 2021, 05:59:51 pm »
I see my long distance cousin has wisely taken my advice. He has retreated and now offline. Enjoy your tea old chap. But a little advise, don?t turn the heat up quite as high as Iddee was forced to do! Talk to you soon ole red coat friend.  :grin: :cheesy:
I was off-line because I had better things to do, ie, going for a walk with one of my daughters, much more interesting. :grin:
Cup of coffee at a cafe though.
Not everything revolves around 'threads' thank God!


Either way I am happy you took my advice and took a break.😬 Tea break is good, daughter break is better!! 
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Offline Kathyp

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Re: Big Lies
« Reply #647 on: April 09, 2021, 06:54:28 pm »
Quote
How do you explain Japans 0.2% or Germanys 0.9%? or is it just an inconvenience?

Japan is an island with extremely strict import rules and enforcement.  Even so, criminals do manage to get guns and their gangs use guns. When Japan has mass attacks, they are pretty spectacular whether guns are used or not.
https://time.com/5630227/japan-history-mass-violence/

The overall murder rate in Germany is pretty low although they have been caught underreporting knife crimes.  I do wonder how that will change with the mass importation of foreigners. 
I don't know how the German legal system handles violent crime.  I do know that our violent crime had been going down steadily for a few decades until we decided not to enforce laws or toss people in jail.  We now have one of the highest violent crime rates we have had in decades. 
Per our earlier conversation...for both countries, The Borg comes to mind  :grin:
https://www.statista.com/statistics/200445/reported-violent-crime-rate-in-the-us-states/

When the stats are in for 2020 I think we will find we are back close to the rates of the later 70s.

The more we degrade society, the more crime.  That's simplistic but pretty much the broad answer.

They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline cidersabuzzin

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Re: Big Lies
« Reply #648 on: April 10, 2021, 03:37:26 pm »
Read your own link, after you read my post correctly.

"All Swiss men over the age of 18 undergo basic military training, after which they remain part of a national "militia" until they are around 30. They keep their unloaded service weapons at home during this time, and when their service has ended they have the choice of keeping their personal weapon, as long as they first acquire a permit. Women can also volunteer for national service.""

First, my post says everyone where it should say all men. VERY small discrepancy, since it is allowed for women also, on a voluntary basis. It doesn't say for all their life, but it is required for the years they are most capable of using it, and they are allowed to keep it for life. Overall, the results show it works well.


Hum
Maybe it?s time for Cider to retreat for a spot of tea?  :wink:
They keep their rifles at home UNLOADED, the ammunition is kept at the local army camp. They can retain the weapon when they finish their reserve service and only after stringent checks and licensing something that seems to be sadly lacking in the US. :rolleyes:
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Offline cidersabuzzin

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Re: Big Lies
« Reply #649 on: April 10, 2021, 03:40:18 pm »
How about "an exception to every rule?" Ever heard that. With 99+% one way, the other way shouldn't be followed 100%,IMHO.
Is this the ubiquitous get-out clause? :wink:
What's good for bees is usually good for mankind. Doesn't that mean sharing?

Offline iddee

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Re: Big Lies
« Reply #650 on: April 10, 2021, 04:37:10 pm »
No, it's common sense. Something most are missing these days.
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*

Offline Kathyp

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Re: Big Lies
« Reply #651 on: April 10, 2021, 04:52:00 pm »
Quote
They keep their rifles at home UNLOADED, the ammunition is kept at the local army camp. They can retain the weapon when they finish their reserve service and only after stringent checks and licensing something that seems to be sadly lacking in the US

A rifle without ammo is an expensive club.

Licensing is the first step to confiscation.  You should know that from your own country and others.

Our press likes to tell people that there are no background checks for weapons purchase, but they lie.  The gun show loophole is a lie.  Gun shows follow the laws of the state in which they are held.  It is true that some states do not require background checks for private sales.  That is the choice of the state.  Any licensed gun dealer does checks.  They are done through the FBI. 

There are some issues that should be addressed.  For instance, the kid who shot up the school in FL would have been denied a purchase if law enforcement in FL had done their job and arrested him for his numerous prior law-breaking incidents.  Why didn't they?  Because that county is run by leftists and they were trying the kinder, gentler, type of law enforcement.  The kid had no record even though he had menaced with a firearm before, so there was nothing to show up on the background check.

So yes, if you want to tighten things up, starting with enforcing current laws would be a good idea.

None of the crap being proposed would have stopped any of these shooters.  Most gun crimes are done by people who don't follow the law in the first place, so they are not going to go through a background check to get a gun.  They'll just buy one off the street that has been stolen and it will be a handgun, not a rifle. 

It's going to get worse, not better.  They are letting people out of jail at a rapid rate.  Not prosecuting violent crimes.  Not keeping those who need to be kept for mental health reasons.  That's why gun sales are up so much.  We are on our own until it gets as bad as it was in the 70s and the leftist elites start feeling the impact. 

You saw how quick they were to protect themselves in DC.  Let a few of them face muggings and break-ins and they'll start to get the picture...unless their armed guards protect them!

They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Online Ben Framed

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Re: Big Lies
« Reply #652 on: April 10, 2021, 10:19:16 pm »
Thank you Kathy and Iddee, well said. Its good to see common sense reasoning still exist. 
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Offline cidersabuzzin

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Re: Big Lies
« Reply #653 on: April 11, 2021, 04:51:38 am »
Quote
They keep their rifles at home UNLOADED, the ammunition is kept at the local army camp. They can retain the weapon when they finish their reserve service and only after stringent checks and licensing something that seems to be sadly lacking in the US

A rifle without ammo is an expensive club.

Licensing is the first step to confiscation.  You should know that from your own country and others.

Our press likes to tell people that there are no background checks for weapons purchase, but they lie.  The gun show loophole is a lie.  Gun shows follow the laws of the state in which they are held.  It is true that some states do not require background checks for private sales.  That is the choice of the state.  Any licensed gun dealer does checks.  They are done through the FBI. 

There are some issues that should be addressed.  For instance, the kid who shot up the school in FL would have been denied a purchase if law enforcement in FL had done their job and arrested him for his numerous prior law-breaking incidents.  Why didn't they?  Because that county is run by leftists and they were trying the kinder, gentler, type of law enforcement.  The kid had no record even though he had menaced with a firearm before, so there was nothing to show up on the background check.

So yes, if you want to tighten things up, starting with enforcing current laws would be a good idea.

None of the crap being proposed would have stopped any of these shooters.  Most gun crimes are done by people who don't follow the law in the first place, so they are not going to go through a background check to get a gun.  They'll just buy one off the street that has been stolen and it will be a handgun, not a rifle. 

It's going to get worse, not better.  They are letting people out of jail at a rapid rate.  Not prosecuting violent crimes.  Not keeping those who need to be kept for mental health reasons.  That's why gun sales are up so much.  We are on our own until it gets as bad as it was in the 70s and the leftist elites start feeling the impact. 

You saw how quick they were to protect themselves in DC.  Let a few of them face muggings and break-ins and they'll start to get the picture...unless their armed guards protect them!
What about all the 'Kit Guns' the ones without serial numbers it's a waste of time having background checks if you can just buy parts and aaemble your own.   
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Offline iddee

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Re: Big Lies
« Reply #654 on: April 11, 2021, 08:39:36 am »
That's exactly why guns need to be legal. If guns are outlawed, only criminals will have guns. Thanks for coming on to our side, cider.
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*

Offline Kathyp

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Re: Big Lies
« Reply #655 on: April 11, 2021, 12:13:44 pm »
Quote
What about all the 'Kit Guns' the ones without serial numbers it's a waste of time having background checks if you can just buy parts and aaemble your own.

When I was wandering your museums I saw some that Brits had made.  They were pretty clever.  Who knew you could do that with rubber bands?   :grin:

this is another press hype and presidential pandering issue.  To properly build these weapons takes some skill and equipment.  There are people who invest in these things as they would invest in any hobby.
I have yet to hear of any crime committed with one of these weapons. 

Sounds good though, doesn't it?  "We'll outlaw ghost guns!!"  Oh, the scary ghost guns...
They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline cidersabuzzin

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Re: Big Lies
« Reply #656 on: April 14, 2021, 05:47:23 am »
Quote
What about all the 'Kit Guns' the ones without serial numbers it's a waste of time having background checks if you can just buy parts and aaemble your own.

When I was wandering your museums I saw some that Brits had made.  They were pretty clever.  Who knew you could do that with rubber bands?   :grin:

this is another press hype and presidential pandering issue.  To properly build these weapons takes some skill and equipment.  There are people who invest in these things as they would invest in any hobby.
I have yet to hear of any crime committed with one of these weapons. 

Sounds good though, doesn't it?  "We'll outlaw ghost guns!!"  Oh, the scary ghost guns...

"this is another press hype and presidential pandering issue.  To properly build these weapons takes some skill and equipment.  There are people who invest in these things as they would invest in any hobby."

Just watched a video of someone assembling a look-a-like Glock it said all that was required was a Dremel, a few Swiss files, and a couple of screwdrivers. Mostly these are required to remove 'tabs' that are intentionally left in place to stop the 'slide' working so not exactly an onerous operation. And bingo you have an unmarked weapon (as long as you pay in cash!)   
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Offline salvo

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Re: Big Lies
« Reply #657 on: April 14, 2021, 08:29:04 am »
Hey! F&R (the R stands for Racist)

Blah,... Blah,... Blah!

That's all you got.

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Sal
Salvo

Online Ben Framed

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Re: Big Lies
« Reply #658 on: April 14, 2021, 08:55:09 am »
Quote
What about all the 'Kit Guns' the ones without serial numbers it's a waste of time having background checks if you can just buy parts and aaemble your own.

When I was wandering your museums I saw some that Brits had made.  They were pretty clever.  Who knew you could do that with rubber bands?   :grin:

this is another press hype and presidential pandering issue.  To properly build these weapons takes some skill and equipment.  There are people who invest in these things as they would invest in any hobby.
I have yet to hear of any crime committed with one of these weapons. 

Sounds good though, doesn't it?  "We'll outlaw ghost guns!!"  Oh, the scary ghost guns...

"this is another press hype and presidential pandering issue.  To properly build these weapons takes some skill and equipment.  There are people who invest in these things as they would invest in any hobby."

Just watched a video of someone assembling a look-a-like Glock it said all that was required was a Dremel, a few Swiss files, and a couple of screwdrivers. Mostly these are required to remove 'tabs' that are intentionally left in place to stop the 'slide' working so not exactly an onerous operation. And bingo you have an unmarked weapon (as long as you pay in cash!)   


Why didn?t you post the video?  Let?s see your source.
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Offline cidersabuzzin

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Re: Big Lies
« Reply #659 on: April 14, 2021, 01:17:55 pm »
Quote
What about all the 'Kit Guns' the ones without serial numbers it's a waste of time having background checks if you can just buy parts and aaemble your own.

When I was wandering your museums I saw some that Brits had made.  They were pretty clever.  Who knew you could do that with rubber bands?   :grin:

this is another press hype and presidential pandering issue.  To properly build these weapons takes some skill and equipment.  There are people who invest in these things as they would invest in any hobby.
I have yet to hear of any crime committed with one of these weapons. 

Sounds good though, doesn't it?  "We'll outlaw ghost guns!!"  Oh, the scary ghost guns...

"this is another press hype and presidential pandering issue.  To properly build these weapons takes some skill and equipment.  There are people who invest in these things as they would invest in any hobby."

Just watched a video of someone assembling a look-a-like Glock it said all that was required was a Dremel, a few Swiss files, and a couple of screwdrivers. Mostly these are required to remove 'tabs' that are intentionally left in place to stop the 'slide' working so not exactly an onerous operation. And bingo you have an unmarked weapon (as long as you pay in cash!)   


Why didn?t you post the video?  Let?s see your source.

https://reason.com/2018/05/31/how-to-legally-make-your-own-o/

PS; Is there something wrong with Salvo, is he getting a touch of the lurgi? Can you lend him some of your pills? :wink:
« Last Edit: April 14, 2021, 01:41:32 pm by cidersabuzzin »
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