Questions about marking and clipping queens

[cbarton]

I am about to place an order for bees to fill my first hive, and wonder if anyone has suggestions or comments about marking and/or clipping the  queen?

I have read that marking the queen offers some benefits for the beginner becasue she may be easier to see.  What about purchasing queens with "clipped" wings?  I have also heard that clipping the queen's wings prevents her from flying away from the hive which seems as if it might be helpful.  Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks for helping to get me started.

[Finsky]

I have clipped my queens 40 years. First I loosed some queens at winter. Then I started to clip queen at spring before swarming season. After that I did not lose queen at winter. I do not mark queens but it helps to notice them.

[Robo]

Marking queens not only helps you find them,  but also confirms you still have your original queen.  It is always good to know if your hive has swarmed or replaced the queen with an emergency queen,  which in my opinion should be then replaced.

[Michael Bush]

>I have read that marking the queen offers some benefits for the beginner becasue she may be easier to see.

Yes, and as mentioned, you can also tell if she's been replaced.  Good to know when you suspect a supercedure or a swarm.  Or even if you didn't.

> What about purchasing queens with "clipped" wings? I have also heard that clipping the queen's wings prevents her from flying away from the hive which seems as if it might be helpful.

They only fly away if they are swarming.  Clipping will slow them down, but they will still swarm if you aren't paying attention and they will simply leave with one of the virgins instead.

>Any suggestions would be appreciated.

I always mark mine.  I seldom clip them, but I don't think it hurts.  I've had clipped queens that were several years old.

[mohamed nawar]

>I have read that marking the queen offers some benefits for the beginner becasue she may be easier to see.

Yes, and as mentioned, you can also tell if she's been replaced.  Good to know when you suspect a supercedure or a swarm.  Or even if you didn't.

> What about purchasing queens with "clipped" wings? I have also heard that clipping the queen's wings prevents her from flying away from the hive which seems as if it might be helpful.

They only fly away if they are swarming.  Clipping will slow them down, but they will still swarm if you aren't paying attention and they will simply leave with one of the virgins instead.

>Any suggestions would be appreciated.

 :lol:

I always mark mine

.  I seldom clip them, but I don't think it hurts.  I've had clipped queens that were several years old.

[Finsky]

>  I've had clipped queens that were several years old.

I keep queens only one year.

[Ben Framed]

I was searching for information on this subject and ran across this topic. I am giving it the ole bump. Any more thoughts on this subject will be appreciated.

Phillip

[Jim134]

I was searching for information on this subject and ran across this topic. I am giving it the ole bump. Any more thoughts on this subject will be appreciated.

Phillip

   Something you may like to read.. About clipped queens..
https://www.honeybeesuite.com/why-clip-the-wings-of-your-queen/
     

         BEE HAPPY  Jim134  😊

[Ben Framed]

Thanks Jim, I will check it out.

Philip

[Michael Bush]

I seriously doubt that clipping does any harm to the queen.  Nor do I think it speeds supersedure.  But if Rusty believes that, she also believes that young queens prevent swarming so I would assume a frequent supersedure would be a good thing, if that is true.  Myself, I see no advantage unless I'm in the beeyard all the time and have a chance to see the swarm on the ground with the queen that can't fly, before they move back into the hive.  They will still swarm, but with the first virgin out about a week later than their first failed attempt.  If I'm there for that failed attempt it might benefit me, but the likelihood is low.  Marking is very useful as it gives you more information.  It also makes it easier to find the queen, but if that was all, it probably wouldn't be worth the effort.  The real benefit is I can tell if it's a new queen or not, and if not, how old the queen is.  All useful information.

[AustinB]

I mark all my queens so that I can tell if they have superseded without me knowing.

[Ben Framed]

I seriously doubt that clipping does any harm to the queen.  Nor do I think it speeds supersedure.  But if Rusty believes that, she also believes that young queens prevent swarming so I would assume a frequent supersedure would be a good thing, if that is true.  Myself, I see no advantage unless I'm in the beeyard all the time and have a chance to see the swarm on the ground with the queen that can't fly, before they move back into the hive.  They will still swarm, but with the first virgin out about a week later than their first failed attempt.  If I'm there for that failed attempt it might benefit me, but the likelihood is low.  Marking is very useful as it gives you more information.  It also makes it easier to find the queen, but if that was all, it probably wouldn't be worth the effort.  The real benefit is I can tell if it's a new queen or not, and if not, how old the queen is.  All useful information.

"I seriously doubt that clipping does any harm to the queen.  Nor do I think it speeds supersedure.  But if Rusty believes that, she also believes that young queens prevent swarming so I would assume a frequent supersedure would be a good thing, if that is true."

I agree.

"Myself, I see no advantage unless I'm in the beeyard all the time and have a chance to see the swarm on the ground with the queen that can't fly, before they move back into the hive."

I had the following experience last season. I noticed a swarm in progress at my home yard. It was pleasant observing while wondering, "where are they going to land". They never did settle down to stay on a particular limb. To my surprise they finally flew back to the hive they left from. I strolled to their location. They were pretty much all over the front of the hive, and had began settling down and 'marching' back in. I opened the top and bees were plenty. Questions went through my mind.
Then I noticed a small ball of bees on the ground behind the hive. I knelt down and gently rubbed my finger through the ball. Sure enough, there she was. Thought she was in a ball, she was not being balled but taken care of. A white marked queen. I gently picked her up not wanting her to fly away but there was no danger in that as he only had one wing which answered the mystery question as why they swarmed and went back to the original hive.

Questions:
I suppose if I hadn't found the one wing queen they would have simple left her there to perish and one of the swarm cell virgins would have taken over had she not found her way back by crawling, leaving the hive just as in a regular swarm situation? Except I would have not lost half the bees to a swarm as in a swarm situation? So I would have been rewarded with the best of both? Perhaps I would have gained a new queen without loosing bees to a swarm? Or would something more have taken place?

Thanks,
Phillip

[Michael Bush]

Odds are she would have eventually returned to the hive if she could.  Either way the swarm would have left with the first virgin if they couldn't leave with the old queen.  Then, if they didn't afterswarm, the next queen out would be the new queen.

[Ben Framed]

Odds are she would have eventually returned to the hive if she could.  Either way the swarm would have left with the first virgin if they couldn't leave with the old queen.  Then, if they didn't afterswarm, the next queen out would be the new queen.

If she had of returned to the hive 'if she could', wouldn't all the queen cells be cut down? On the other hand, if there was already a new queen emerged, and the new 'emerged queen' would have been the 'next queen', wouldn't that have saved the colony from swarming? At least this time, as in a two queen situation as I have witnessed in the Fall of the Year? Or even transforming a swarming situation into a superseder situation instead?


Phillip

[Michael Bush]

>If she had of returned to the hive 'if she could', wouldn't all the queen cells be cut down?

No.

> On the other hand, if there was already a new queen emerged, and the new 'emerged queen' would have been the 'next queen', wouldn't that have saved the colony from swarming?

Not likely.  They set swarming in motion and until there is a drop in population they will continue on that path.

>At least this time, as in a two queen situation as I have witnessed in the Fall of the Year? Or even transforming a swarming situation into a superseder situation instead?

About the only way to convert a swarm to a supersedure is to do something to make the colony sense that they have swarmed.  Removing a significant number of bees and the old queen will most often succeed at this.  But just removing the queen will not.

[Ben Framed]

Thanks again Michael.

Phillip