Surprise swarm in my trap?

[FlexMedia.tv]

Hey folks,
Earlier this year I caught a swarm I'm my trap and they are doing ok in a hive concidering it was a small swarm. I replaced the trap and would look at it from time to time, nothing. I didn't replace that scent thing or added anything to catch them but today I see a bunch of bees going in and out. It's been up there a few months. I check it once a week when I cut grass. I think it's kinda late in the season here in Michigan for swarms. It's not my bees cuz they are still fine. I won't know until I take it down later, but I wanted to post this as soon as I could for some hints of what to do. I have a homemade hive I can use and probably feed because I don't think they will make it through the winter. But I built a Nuc years ago, and I don't know why because I don't know how to use Nucs. Can I put this swarm in a Nuc? It's a nice looking Nuc! <grin!> They might be gone in 5 minutes, but they have been there at least 15!

Thanks!
Art

[cao]

How big is your trap?  I would say you have two options if the swarm is in your trap.  If your trap is big enough just let them stay in the trap and let nature decide if they are to survive.  Second is to transfer them to a hive and feed, feed, feed.  If your area is anything like mine an august swarm will most likely not make it through the winter.  So I look at it like there are some free bees to play with and maybe learn a little on how much stores they need for winter.

 

[FatherMichael]

Yes, what cao said, feed.

Sugar is cheap.

[FlexMedia.tv]

Thanks CAO and FatherMichael.
I will keep them
The swarm trap is designed to hold 8 frames. There's only one frame in there of an old 1/2 honey frame that I'm positive was eaten up two months ago. I just checked again and they are still coming and going. They will never make it in that trap. Some of us in Michigan are already feeding our bees. So, I guess I won't put them in a NUC because I don't know of a way to feed them. I'll put them in a hive i have and throw some sugar water and pollen patties at them and hope for the best. Dunno why they are doing this so late!

Art

[van from Arkansas]

I vote for Cao?s second choice as agreed with Brother:  feed, take care of the bees, freebies I might add.

Congrats, like money in your pocket.  In Spring 3 pounds of Bees goes for $130-$200.  You got these honeybees for free.  Totally cool, a free swarm!!!

Enjoy your luck, I prefer to call your Blessings.
Van

[FatherMichael]

Pollen patties may not help but neither would they hurt.  I fed half a patty with syrup recently during the mid-summer dearth and had good results.

I'd focus on feeding and insulation from the cold to come.

Solar gain from a low sun in winter is also a thing to consider.  Even here in Texas the bees like the south side of the hive where the sun shines on it.  Those frames are always heavier than those on the north.  I expect to feed my new colony well into fall.  They will cluster on the south side.

But they will not take syrup if it gets too cool.  So, jump on it!

[FlexMedia.tv]

I vote for Cao?s second choice as agreed with Brother:  feed, take care of the bees, freebies I might add.

Congrats, like money in your pocket.  In Spring 3 pounds of Bees goes for $130-$200.  You got these honeybees for free.  Totally cool, a free swarm!!!

Enjoy your luck, I prefer to call your Blessings.
Van

Van,
I hear ya. I have bought many a package bee in my day! Hopefully I'll turn this luck into a blessing! I have a big pail of syrup I'll start out with. You wouldn't have any ideas how to feed a NUC through the winter would you?? I think I'll just go with another hive.

[FlexMedia.tv]

Pollen patties may not help but neither would they hurt.  I fed half a patty with syrup recently during the mid-summer dearth and had good results.

I'd focus on feeding and insulation from the cold to come.

Solar gain from a low sun in winter is also a thing to consider.  Even here in Texas the bees like the south side of the hive where the sun shines on it.  Those frames are always heavier than those on the north.  I expect to feed my new colony well into fall.  They will cluster on the south side.

But they will not take syrup if it gets too cool.  So, jump on it!

I lost two hives last winter but to disease and mites before they froze. You are right, they don't eat the syrup in the winter. They did some of the patty and sugar cakes in a homemade feeder. I did wrap them too.  It's going to be a challenge to keep these girls alive!

[Ben Framed]

Pollen patties may not help but neither would they hurt.  I fed half a patty with syrup recently during the mid-summer dearth and had good results.

I'd focus on feeding and insulation from the cold to come.

Solar gain from a low sun in winter is also a thing to consider.  Even here in Texas the bees like the south side of the hive where the sun shines on it.  Those frames are always heavier than those on the north.  I expect to feed my new colony well into fall.  They will cluster on the south side.

But they will not take syrup if it gets too cool.  So, jump on it!

Pollen will most defiantly help. Bees need protein to build up brood and more bees going into the winter. And the hive will need more bee to survive the winter.
Phillip

[FatherMichael]

Yes, I underestimated the need for brood, thinking wrongly that it might be too late.

But more bees can only benefit the cause.

Let us know how it goes.

It would be awesome if they made it!

[cao]

Both last year and the year before I had swarms show up in empty boxes that I had sitting around.  The one two years ago was in an empty nuc. I added a box to it, fed it and combined it with a queenless nuc.  It almost made it through winter.  About three to four weeks short.  Last years swarm was in a 8 frame deep swarm trap.  I let nature take its course.  It was about a month from making it through the winter.  So IMHO they are free bees but odds are they aren't going to make it unless you are willing to add resources from another hive.

[Ben Framed]

Both last year and the year before I had swarms show up in empty boxes that I had sitting around.  The one two years ago was in an empty nuc. I added a box to it, fed it and combined it with a queenless nuc.  It almost made it through winter.  About three to four weeks short.  Last years swarm was in a 8 frame deep swarm trap.  I let nature take its course.  It was about a month from making it through the winter.  So IMHO they are free bees but odds are they aren't going to make it unless you are willing to add resources from another hive.

Good point. at least a couple frames of capped brood and nurse bees to kick it up to another level. Three or four frames would be even better this late, especially in Michigan. Even still pour the feed to them, both pollen and syrup.  And do not forget to treat for mites.
Phillip

[Anonimo22]

well in answer to your question about adding it to a nuc? Do you mean a combine or just putting it in a larger nuc box?

I've heard of people using the newspaper trick between two hives to combine them, but actually I'm not sure if that trick will fail if the the two hives aren't of similar size? What do others think about this?

[billdean]

I would combine it with the swarm hive you already have.

[Ben Framed]

I would add a frame or brood and nurse bees to the 5 framer ,(new swarm), Maybe skip a few days and then add another. This may require a little extra attention but its should be worth it. It would be worth it to me. This may not be what others would do, but I would try it.
Phillip

[FlexMedia.tv]

Let me update everybody. Everything just changed as bees do with me!
So I go out after posting at night and look at the trap through the hole. I can't see any bees. The next morning they are flying in and out like a hive. It's only one frame of a little honey that I left in there so I'm thinking it should be used up from a few months ago if random bees are going in. A few hours later bees are swarming all around the box with a few bees going in and out. It took about an hour before they settled down. At night there were about 100 resting on the outside of the box and fewer on the frame inside.

I took them thinking this is the smallest swarm on record or they left without me seeing. I dumped them in my homemade hive hoping a queen was there and fed them syrup, and a frame of honey I froze from last year. Now I can't tell if my other bees are flying in for a bite or the new hive is taking care of business. The only other swarm I've ever caught was cool because I got to watch several of them flying orientation flights. Another first for me. I can't tell with this hive yet. I'll look again later today

Art

[FlexMedia.tv]

Both last year and the year before I had swarms show up in empty boxes that I had sitting around.  The one two years ago was in an empty nuc. I added a box to it, fed it and combined it with a queenless nuc.  It almost made it through winter. So IMHO they are free bees but odds are they aren't going to make it unless you are willing to add resources from another hive.

I'm with you there. I'm going to step back and monitor for a few. Things are getting crazy around here! Bees are flying all around the new hive. I have another trap a few yards away, and today, bees were posting up all over that one two. Where the other trap was, a handful of bees were gathered there.  More  bees going in than coming out in the new hive. I have to believe they are there for the feeding. Do bees rob at night? I'm thinking if I peek at the hive at night, the bees there should be the swarm?

[FlexMedia.tv]

I would combine it with the swarm hive you already have.

Hopefully they are still there, Bill. I'm going to give them a few days. If they survive, maybe you can walk me through it!

[Anonimo22]

Let me update everybody. Everything just changed as bees do with me!
So I go out after posting at night and look at the trap through the hole. I can't see any bees. The next morning they are flying in and out like a hive. It's only one frame of a little honey that I left in there so I'm thinking it should be used up from a few months ago if random bees are going in. A few hours later bees are swarming all around the box with a few bees going in and out. It took about an hour before they settled down. At night there were about 100 resting on the outside of the box and fewer on the frame inside.

I took them thinking this is the smallest swarm on record or they left without me seeing. I dumped them in my homemade hive hoping a queen was there and fed them syrup, and a frame of honey I froze from last year. Now I can't tell if my other bees are flying in for a bite or the new hive is taking care of business. The only other swarm I've ever caught was cool because I got to watch several of them flying orientation flights. Another first for me. I can't tell with this hive yet. I'll look again later today

Art

Very cool. Hope it works out! :P And also hope you follow up on it, and that it survives.

[FlexMedia.tv]

Let me update everybody. Everything just changed as bees do with me!
So I go out after posting at night and look at the trap through the hole. I can't see any bees. The next morning they are flying in and out like a hive. It's only one frame of a little honey that I left in there so I'm thinking it should be used up from a few months ago if random bees are going in. A few hours later bees are swarming all around the box with a few bees going in and out. It took about an hour before they settled down. At night there were about 100 resting on the outside of the box and fewer on the frame inside.

I took them thinking this is the smallest swarm on record or they left without me seeing. I dumped them in my homemade hive hoping a queen was there and fed them syrup, and a frame of honey I froze from last year. Now I can't tell if my other bees are flying in for a bite or the new hive is taking care of business. The only other swarm I've ever caught was cool because I got to watch several of them flying orientation flights. Another first for me. I can't tell with this hive yet. I'll look again later today

Art

Very cool. Hope it works out! :P And also hope you follow up on it, and that it survives.

Anonimo22,
Me too! Wish me luck. After 6 years, I'm new at this too!

[FlexMedia.tv]

Things got really strange but here?s an update:
The recent small swarm I captured, took off, but I think it went to another trap I had only a few feet from my hives. I had stopped monitoring that one for two weeks. When I looked at it, it was full and already had two hand sized white comb with a little honey. I placed them back in a homemade hive I built last year and started feeding. They?ve been there 6 days so I?m hoping they will stay! Really late in the season here in Michigan for a swarm. It?s gunna take everything to get them through the winter.

[FlexMedia.tv]

I kinda see why my bees keep leaving my poverty stricken homemade hive. They will seal all the cracks right? :-)




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[FlexMedia.tv]

Just witnessed another swarm here in Michigan, this late in the season. (I'll try to attach a picture) I don't know where all these bees are coming from but I'm pretty sure they are not mine. Too high for me to reach this time, but it's a good sized one. Every year for at least the past 10 years, I've seen swarms come in and go to this tree. I've witnessed a few of my own bees leave the hive and gather on this tree. I've even watched my bees leave a hive, swarm to this tree, return to the hive next to it and take it over. I've captured 2 swarms on this tree myself.

It's just a tall hickory tree. Any significance to this tree and swarms?

[BeeMaster2]

Flex,
I had a swarm in a tree next to my hives two days ago. It was small , too small to survive. I watched them land from the first couple of bees. I never did see a queen land on it. It is in the exact location that I had a swarm land on this tree this past spring.
Once a swarm lands on a spot, they leave enough pheromones that other swarms find for a long time.
Jim Altmiller

[FlexMedia.tv]

Flex,
I had a swarm in a tree next to my hives two days ago. It was small , too small to survive. I watched them land from the first couple of bees. I never did see a queen land on it. It is in the exact location that I had a swarm land on this tree this past spring.
Once a swarm lands on a spot, they leave enough pheromones that other swarms find for a long time.
Jim Altmiller

That explanation makes sense. Still there. Looking at it now. I guess it?s not too unusual now you mention that.

Art

[CoolBees]

Flex - when I caught my first swarm 4 yrs ago, I gently cut the branch they were on, moved it over the open hive, and shook them in. Worked like a charm - having never done this before, I thought it was awesome.

Then I called my buddy/mentor to tell him about it. He yelled at me. He said NEVER cut a branch - because swarms will come to that same spot year after year.

He doesn't know the reason. But he took me to his house and showed me the various "swarm spots" in his back yard. This summer I helped him catch swarms from each of those spots - exactly as he had previously shown me. Bees are really amazing, and I don't think we'll ever truely understand them.

[FlexMedia.tv]

Flex - when I caught my first swarm 4 yrs ago, I gently cut the branch they were on, moved it over the open hive, and shook them in. Worked like a charm - having never done this before, I thought it was awesome.

Then I called my buddy/mentor to tell him about it. He yelled at me. He said NEVER cut a branch - because swarms will come to that same spot year after year.

He doesn't know the reason. But he took me to his house and showed me the various "swarm spots" in his back yard. This summer I helped him catch swarms from each of those spots - exactly as he had previously shown me. Bees are really amazing, and I don't think we'll ever truely understand them.

That?s what?s happening with this tree, CoolBees. That?s where I catch my swarms with my traps, although I?m afraid of heights so my traps are only 6 feet high. Pretty amazing insects!

[FlexMedia.tv]

3 days and they are still there at the top of the tree. Rain and all. I don't think this swarm is very smart. I hope they make it through the winter wherever they go.

[Nock]

Flex - when I caught my first swarm 4 yrs ago, I gently cut the branch they were on, moved it over the open hive, and shook them in. Worked like a charm - having never done this before, I thought it was awesome.

Then I called my buddy/mentor to tell him about it. He yelled at me. He said NEVER cut a branch - because swarms will come to that same spot year after year.

He doesn't know the reason. But he took me to his house and showed me the various "swarm spots" in his back yard. This summer I helped him catch swarms from each of those spots - exactly as he had previously shown me. Bees are really amazing, and I don't think we'll ever truely understand them.

That?s interesting but makes perfect sense. Wonder if you did have to cut a branch. What if you kept it and moved it to your apiary and hung it up. Might work the season.

[FlexMedia.tv]

Still monitoring this swarm. It?s been over a week and they are still on a branch at the top of the tree. I know it can take a few days but just wondering if they know where their final resting place is and they are waiting for the best time or they just don?t have a clue?

[FloridaGardener]

There's a video here from a Beefest of someone banging (tanging) a bucket to get the bees to move.  My grandpa used to chime an orchestra triangle to get bees back into a hive. It would take a bit, but they would move down.

[BeeMaster2]

Still monitoring this swarm. It?s been over a week and they are still on a branch at the top of the tree. I know it can take a few days but just wondering if they know where their final resting place is and they are waiting for the best time or they just don?t have a clue?

Flex,
If the bees knew where there final home was, they would have left. As soon as they make the decision, all of the scouts have to agree on the location, the swarm starts moving their wing muscles to warm them up and in minutes they are gone.
Jim Altmiller

[BeeMaster2]

Here is a link to a very in-depth study of bee swarming:
https://www.americanscientist.org/article/group-decision-making-in-honey-bee-swarms
It is very long but well worth taking the time to read.
Jim Altmiller

[FlexMedia.tv]

Jim,
I?ll read this to satisfy my curiosity. I have a window view of this tree everyday. I always thought they would just leave the hive and go to the new place. But, they always go to this tree first and then go wherever. This tree must just be a meeting place, and they figure it out from there. Some take longer than others! Even my own bees went there and came back and took over the weak hive next to it. Weird stuff! But remember I?m still new at this but I?ll read your article for some answers.

Thank you. Jim.