Welcome, Guest

Author Topic: Honey warming cabinet.  (Read 4417 times)

Offline Skeggley

  • House Bee
  • **
  • Posts: 217
Honey warming cabinet.
« on: July 18, 2020, 10:41:21 pm »
Hi all, in my area I have nectar sources that are glucose rich which causes the honey to crystallise as soon as the temperatures drop. I don?t treat or filter the honey at all which doesn?t help. Personally I have no issue with eating this honey however and impress on the customers that it?s a natural process and doesn?t affect the honey, I would rather move the honey in a liquid state as it?s more presentable and somewhat easier to pour into jars, so I have thrown together a warming cabinet using materials from what I have on hand. (Free)
I?d like some clarification on a few things as it can get a bit grey when researching so am throwing some questions to those in the know. :grin:
Temperatures. What is the safe temperature to decrystallise honey and once decrystallised what is the minimum temperature to maintain the honey in the liquid state? Keeping in mind I have different sized containers in the same cabinet ranging from 20 kgs to 300 gms so they will change state at different rates. I have some tamper proof tubs which I cannot open to stir. I am also planning to put honey frames in so prefer not to melt the wax...
Heating. Currently I?ve a light globe set up but am also wondering if the light from the light will affect the honey.
It does seem that the honey I have experimented with so far seems to have changed to a darker colour at 40?C.
Thanks in advance.


Offline cao

  • Super Bee
  • *****
  • Posts: 1678
  • Gender: Male
Re: Honey warming cabinet.
« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2020, 01:31:59 am »
I have a warming cabinet that I warm jars.  I have it set a little below 104*F(40*C).  It can take several weeks to completely liquefy some of the stubborn honey.  I have also noticed that the honey will darken some with the extended heat time.  As far as frames, I would say that you could have the heat a little less for them. Hope this helps a little.

Offline FloridaGardener

  • Field Bee
  • ***
  • Posts: 548
Re: Honey warming cabinet.
« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2020, 11:43:29 am »
I have used a crock pot (ceramic slow cooker) with water, And immersed bottles, as a double boiler setup. My crystallization problem may come from pollen grains in crush-and-strain.  I just might devote all that honey to creamed honey which is really popular once someone tries it.

 ?Warm? Setting on a crockpot is about 170-180 degrees and will kill honey enzymes though.  The ?keep warm? setting is about 140 F.  If you have a temperature  gun, and are checking back you can keep an eye on it.
 
   Or if you have a large soup pot, and a temp gun, and a rack to keep the bottles off the bottom, this could be done on a stove top.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2020, 01:07:21 pm by FloridaGardener »

Offline BeeMaster2

  • Administrator
  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 13494
  • Gender: Male
Re: Honey warming cabinet.
« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2020, 01:48:08 pm »
FG,
140 is way to high to take your honey to. You might as well call it store bought honey.
As mentioned, I never heat my honey over 104F, 40C. There are designs hear on BeeMaster for a very good honey heating cabinet. I have built 2 of them, one for me and one for a friend, and they handle a wide range of containers, all the different bottles, 3 and 5 gallon buckets and frames.
I will see if I can locate the designs and add a link.
Jim Altmiller
Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
Ben Franklin

Offline BeeMaster2

  • Administrator
  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 13494
  • Gender: Male
Re: Honey warming cabinet.
« Reply #4 on: July 19, 2020, 01:52:30 pm »
Here is the link from when I was looking to build it for Jim Barry.
https://beemaster.com/forum/index.php?topic=45570.msg393404#msg393404

Jim Altmiller
Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
Ben Franklin

Offline Skeggley

  • House Bee
  • **
  • Posts: 217
Re: Honey warming cabinet.
« Reply #5 on: July 25, 2020, 11:02:05 pm »
Ok, thanks peeps, so to clarify, 40?C (104?F) is the best temp to liquify crystallised honey without degrading it?
Once liquified what is the lowest temp to maintain liquidity?
Currently I?m using a light globe and am wondering if the light degrades the honey. In warmer weather I use the dash of my car to liquify (and advertise :wink:) and the colour seems to be maintained but am curious as to whether a heat mat would be a better heat source.
Thanks again.

Offline Ben Framed

  • Global Moderator
  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 12410
  • Mississippi Zone 7
Re: Honey warming cabinet.
« Reply #6 on: July 26, 2020, 12:03:32 am »
This may not be exactly what you are looking for Skeggley it might help?

https://youtu.be/KKZuMANGTw4
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline crmauch

  • House Bee
  • **
  • Posts: 59
  • Gender: Male
Re: Honey warming cabinet.
« Reply #7 on: July 26, 2020, 06:50:33 pm »
I honestly know nothing about this, but you might want to consider a plant/seedling heating mat.  There's different models out there and I know they don't all heat the same.   But if they were much hotter than the temperatures you're discussing, it would fry the seedlings.
Chris

Offline Skeggley

  • House Bee
  • **
  • Posts: 217
Re: Honey warming cabinet.
« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2020, 12:25:38 am »
Hi mate, yeah looked into propagation mats however temps too low unfortunately, 35⁰C max. Keg warmers another option but will probably stick to shielded globes and run 2 for redundancy.
I'm thinking 20⁰C as a maintain temp?

Offline Ben Framed

  • Global Moderator
  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 12410
  • Mississippi Zone 7
Re: Honey warming cabinet.
« Reply #9 on: July 27, 2020, 11:21:53 am »
Build your cabinet. Add an InkBird PID controller, run the wiring to your heating source inside your sealed cabinet, along with an attached thermal coupler running into your sealed cabinet. You can demand a steady inside temperature to what ever temperature your desire.
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline BeeMaster2

  • Administrator
  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 13494
  • Gender: Male
Re: Honey warming cabinet.
« Reply #10 on: July 30, 2020, 12:16:54 am »
I use the thermostats that are in hot water heaters. The large ones have two thermostats and some one always has one out for the trash, so they are free. I find they are very accurate especially in the 100 degree range (40 degrees Celsius).
Be sure to use black electrical tape over the contacts.
Jim Altmiller
Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
Ben Franklin

Offline Dabbler

  • House Bee
  • **
  • Posts: 132
  • Gender: Male
Re: Honey warming cabinet.
« Reply #11 on: July 30, 2020, 04:31:55 pm »
I will second Jim's recommendation for using the water heater thermostats.

I broke down and purchased a new one but it wasn't expensive. Works well for 2 -3 years now.
Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the tests first, the lessons afterwards .
-Vernon Sanders Law

Offline Skeggley

  • House Bee
  • **
  • Posts: 217
Re: Honey warming cabinet.
« Reply #12 on: July 31, 2020, 09:55:22 pm »
Cabinet and temperature control isn?t an issue, more so the heat source factors and the maintain temp once liquified.



Offline BeeMaster2

  • Administrator
  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 13494
  • Gender: Male
Re: Honey warming cabinet.
« Reply #13 on: July 31, 2020, 10:22:14 pm »
My heater uses a 150 bulb. It easily handles the heat requirements of this job. I have used a 75 watt bulb but that is bare minimum and requires extra blankets it add insulation to keep more heat in.
Jim Altmiller
Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
Ben Franklin

Offline FloridaGardener

  • Field Bee
  • ***
  • Posts: 548
Re: Honey warming cabinet.
« Reply #14 on: August 03, 2020, 10:16:52 pm »
Yep, I've got to qualify the crock pot concept.

1- it was a warning that they actually get very hot.

2- Just like frozen chicken in a pot of hot water thaws out but doesn't cook, a glass bottle of honey left for a few minutes in  140 degree water will warm up, and if it's removed before the complete thermal transfer, it will never get as hot as the water.

3 - I think I did mention the temp gun to keep it under 105 F. 

I have some high-glucose honey too, so sweet it will make you teeth hurt.  I've been working my way through 15 solidified pounds of it, by adding superfine organic saigon cinnamon, running it through the Ninja blender, and making creamed honey.  The blender chops the larger crystals, the cinnamon acts as a starter, and it re-sets with a very smooth texture.

Offline Ben Framed

  • Global Moderator
  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 12410
  • Mississippi Zone 7
Re: Honey warming cabinet.
« Reply #15 on: August 04, 2020, 09:43:50 am »
Cabinet and temperature control isn?t an issue, more so the heat source factors and the maintain temp once liquified.

Skeggley, that being the case; If your cabinet is large enough, I suppose a regular one room electric heater wired to your temperature control will most likely get the job done? Now again dependant of the size of your cabinet? That is one thought. Safety should always be job number one. Make sure it is not placed in an angle that will overheat a flammable surface. The small plastic covered type seem to do a good job and much safer than the old type space heaters. What are your thoughts?
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline Skeggley

  • House Bee
  • **
  • Posts: 217
Re: Honey warming cabinet.
« Reply #16 on: August 04, 2020, 11:24:55 am »
Nah mate, not that big, maybe 3 cubic feet in your language, a 75W globe brings it to temp fast enough, im thinking about enclosing the globe in a 100mm, oops, 4? copper tube offcut to minimise light while hopefully retaining the heat.
Perhaps I need to rephrase my question, at what temp does honey, with a high glucose content tend to crystallise at?
The crystals that do form are quite large usually however my last crush and strain crystallised within days to a buttery consistency and is delicious. If I could somehow turn it into a fudge consistency...

https://researchlibrary.agric.wa.gov.au/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1039&context=pubns
Just in case anyone is interested in the unique honey we have here in South West Australia.

Offline FloridaGardener

  • Field Bee
  • ***
  • Posts: 548
Re: Honey warming cabinet.
« Reply #17 on: August 05, 2020, 03:45:22 pm »
Leave 5% virgin wax in the honey, when you put it in the food processor/blender.  Spoon or pour into silicon molds before setting up in the frig.  It's buttery. Mine is solid at room temp after setting up.

Pop it out, wrap in parchment, seal with your sticker/logo etc. 
« Last Edit: August 05, 2020, 05:11:39 pm by FloridaGardener »

Offline Ben Framed

  • Global Moderator
  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 12410
  • Mississippi Zone 7
Re: Honey warming cabinet.
« Reply #18 on: August 06, 2020, 12:40:46 am »
 >.  https://researchlibrary.agric.wa.gov.au/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1039&context=pubns

Excellent report Skeggley. Good stuff. Thanks for posting.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2020, 12:51:43 am by Ben Framed »
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Offline Ben Framed

  • Global Moderator
  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 12410
  • Mississippi Zone 7
Re: Honey warming cabinet.
« Reply #19 on: August 06, 2020, 01:02:34 am »
Skeggley, I would like to add, I once read a report that hydrogen peroxide will even ward off ailments such as cancer. I am not saying this is true. But the article was interesting . I believe honey is a Gift of God, (one of many), even in the Bible the promised land in the Old Testament mentioned the land of "milk and honey".  That alone puts honey at a pretty high esteem doesn't it? Again I thank you for posting the information.
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

 

anything