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Oil trap screened hive bottom?

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Ben Framed:

--- Quote from: The15thMember on May 08, 2021, 02:07:11 pm ---
--- Quote from: Brian MCquilkin on May 08, 2021, 12:40:30 pm ---With the oil traps, you need to make sure to seal the tray snug and tight so the returning forages can't get into them and drown. been there done that.

--- End quote ---
I don't have personal experience here, but I'd think this would apply to diatomaceous earth traps as well.  The DE isn't harmful to adults, but if it gets tracked into the hive by the workers, it could be dangerous to the brood.

--- End quote ---

Member I?m sure you already know but for the benefit of those who do not, Paus, in reply 4, mentioned using # 8 Hardware cloth between the pan and the bees. This is how the beatles enter the trap as bees can not fit through. Works great!

Your question is a good one. Realizing your concern, I am speaking of oil. Once they hit the oil they are goners! I have no experience with diatomaceous earth.... (meaning, I do not know if they die on the spot or if they can crawl back into the hive dragging diatomaceous earth into the bee area? 




                                                                                                                                                    .

Ben Framed:
Do beetles die immediately after falling into diatomaceous earth? I would not think so. Are they able to travel further or work their way back into the hive?

The15thMember:

--- Quote from: Ben Framed on May 11, 2021, 08:33:51 pm ---Do beetles die immediately after falling into diatomaceous earth? I would not think so. Are they able to travel further or work their way back into the hive?

--- End quote ---
I was doing some looking at this, and I found that my comment earlier about DE being safe for adult bees was inaccurate.  DE is most effective on soft-bodied insects (provided they aren't slimy like earthworms, who are protected from DE by their thick coat of mucous), but it can and will also kill hard-bodied insects, like beetles and bees.  DE's microscopic particles have edges that are extremely rough which can get in between the joints of insects' exoskeletons and cause extreme irritation, and it can also wear away at the exoskeleton's waxy protective cuticle, which leads the insects to die of dehydration.  DE is considered safe for use around bees because it's easy to apply it in ways that the bees won't come in contact with, and I'd imagine that bees' hairy bodies also help to protect them from the dust more than a smooth insect.  But nonetheless, it can affect adult bees as well as larvae. 

So Phillip, I'd say no, beetles wouldn't die immediately from falling into the DE, since they have to die of dehydration.  My question would be: do does the DE incapacitate them quickly enough that they can't or won't crawl back into the hive?  Perhaps the DE all in their joints makes it too painful or difficult to move well?     

Ben Framed:

--- Quote from: The15thMember on May 11, 2021, 10:30:33 pm ---
--- Quote from: Ben Framed on May 11, 2021, 08:33:51 pm ---Do beetles die immediately after falling into diatomaceous earth? I would not think so. Are they able to travel further or work their way back into the hive?

--- End quote ---
I was doing some looking at this, and I found that my comment earlier about DE being safe for adult bees was inaccurate.  DE is most effective on soft-bodied insects (provided they aren't slimy like earthworms, who are protected from DE by their thick coat of mucous), but it can and will also kill hard-bodied insects, like beetles and bees.  DE's microscopic particles have edges that are extremely rough which can get in between the joints of insects' exoskeletons and cause extreme irritation, and it can also wear away at the exoskeleton's waxy protective cuticle, which leads the insects to die of dehydration.  DE is considered safe for use around bees because it's easy to apply it in ways that the bees won't come in contact with, and I'd imagine that bees' hairy bodies also help to protect them from the dust more than a smooth insect.  But nonetheless, it can affect adult bees as well as larvae. 

So Phillip, I'd say no, beetles wouldn't die immediately from falling into the DE, since they have to die of dehydration.  My question would be: do does the DE incapacitate them quickly enough that they can't or won't crawl back into the hive?  Perhaps the DE all in their joints makes it too painful or difficult to move well?   

--- End quote ---


As always you come up with good stuff Member. Thanks....
 
"Perhaps the DE all in their joints makes it too painful or difficult to move well?"

Maybe so?

Bob Wilson:
This is the reason I suffer with mineral oil in my jar traps, which can stink. I, perhaps irrationally, imagine the wind/breezes sending puffs of DE laden air around the hive while servicing the traps.

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