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Author Topic: Ghost Guns  (Read 4029 times)

Offline Kathyp

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Re: Ghost Guns
« Reply #100 on: May 21, 2021, 03:02:24 pm »
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That is exactly what we have now and the result is the jails are filled with non white people.

Are you trying to make the point that non-white people commit more crimes that require jail time?

A few seconds and you could have fact-checked your gas in bags thing and even used the left leaning SNOPES

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/hoarding-gas-plastic-bags/
They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline Kathyp

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Re: Ghost Guns
« Reply #101 on: May 21, 2021, 03:08:43 pm »
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So the Sackler family should get off scott free?

Depends on whether the claims against them are true.  If they lied about their product and it did not work as they said it did, then that is something for the courts.  If they simply aggressively marketed their product and doctors over-prescribed it or did not pay attention to what patients were doing, then no, they are not responsible. 

I suspect that in our litigious society they will end up paying no matter what and we may never have the whole truth of the matter. 

Now, If a gun manufacturer lies about his product, he is and has always been, subject to being sued.  What the left would like to do is to sue manufacturers for the illegal use of the weapons even if the weapon functions as it should and is exactly as represented by the manufacturer.  That IS stupid. 
They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline cidersabuzzin

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Re: Ghost Guns
« Reply #102 on: May 21, 2021, 03:20:03 pm »
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You are thinking like a true republican and lets do nothing

We have had this conversation before but I'll try once more.  What the left is proposing is that manufactures of guns be held liable if their guns are used in crimes.  That's like saying Ford motor company should be held responsible if their cars are used in a crime like drunk driving. 

We don't punish Ford for a criminal misusing their product.  We punish Ford if their product is defective.

Punishing a firearms manufacturer because a criminal uses their product to commit the crime is stupid. 

No one says that we should do nothing.  What we should do is go after the criminals and enforce the laws we already have.  Making it more difficult for people to legally own weapons does not do anything about criminals.  If criminals followed laws they wouldn't be criminals, would they?

What has everyone got against a serial number being applied to an unfinished receiver? When the receiver is sold the purchaser should be registered from then on a paper trail is created......that is until the weapon is stolen etc but at least there is a serial number to identify the weapon. Ponder; A weapon is used to murder one of your loved ones, would you not wish the paper trail may help in apprehending the perp? (as you say) It seems to be a no-brainer unless you don't care.
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Offline paus

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Re: Ghost Guns
« Reply #103 on: May 21, 2021, 03:54:55 pm »
So called GHOST GUNS have a serial number on the receiver from the manufacturer,  they are traceable but that has not, ever been a significant "clue" in the solving of a crime, Except on TV

Offline cidersabuzzin

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Re: Ghost Guns
« Reply #104 on: May 21, 2021, 04:29:20 pm »
So called GHOST GUNS have a serial number on the receiver from the manufacturer,  they are traceable but that has not ever been a significant "clue" in the solving of a crime, Except on TV
But if there's a required paper trail? A lot of responsibility comes with a robust paper trail. now we get into the realms of whom would want to hide the possession of a weapon and why they would want to do that?.......
« Last Edit: May 21, 2021, 04:46:45 pm by cidersabuzzin »
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Offline paus

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Re: Ghost Guns
« Reply #105 on: May 21, 2021, 04:33:31 pm »
YEP, criminals, and they are going to do what ever they can think about,  Laws are only respected by law abiding citizens

Offline cidersabuzzin

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Re: Ghost Guns
« Reply #106 on: May 21, 2021, 04:51:46 pm »
YEP, criminals, and they are going to do what ever they can think about,  Laws are only respected by law abiding citizens
Must admit your Sunflowers don't look 87! oh! wait a minute there's someone standing in them.
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Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Ghost Guns
« Reply #107 on: May 21, 2021, 04:52:40 pm »
So called GHOST GUNS have a serial number on the receiver from the manufacturer,  they are traceable but that has not ever been a significant "clue" in the solving of a crime, Except on TV
But if there a required paper trail? A lot of responsibility comes with a robust paper trail. now we get into the realms of whom would want to hide the possession of a weapon and why they would want to do that?.......

YEP, criminals, and they are going to do what ever they can think about,  Laws are only respected by law abiding citizens

I do not know why someone would want to hide a paper trail except for the possibility of the election of a rogue government coming into power, which may be anti-constitutional and pro government power. A form of government similar to such governments as china and other communist, marxist, and or fascist governments who leaders have boasted. "Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun." Our principle is that the Party commands the gun, and the gun must never be allowed to command the Party." Naturally this type of folks would seek to confiscate papertrail guns? By the way, isn't that what some of the leaders of the left seem to be heading for?

From the Daily Caller
ANDREW KERR
INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER

August 17, 2020
3:44 PM ET
A senior advisor to Joe Biden's presidential campaign said Chinese dictator Mao Zedong was one of her "favorite political philosophers" during a speech to graduating high schoolers in 2009.[/b]

Anita Dunn, who was temporarily granted effective control of Biden's campaign in February and now serves as a senior advisor, said Mao and Mother Teresa were "the two people that I turn to most" when she needs to encourage others to break from the mold and blaze their own trail in life.

Yet they they elected biden anyway....  goodness
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Ghost Guns
« Reply #108 on: May 21, 2021, 05:05:19 pm »
But really paper trails do not meant much these days because everything is done via computer. There is your modern day paper trail. Folks who think they don't have a 'paper trail' are misguided. I think the only good reason to buy a receiver and assembly it yourself, is for the simple happiness of the do it yourselfer. I would not have the patience or the know how. lol. To each his own...
Question do gun barrels have serial numbers as well?
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Offline Kathyp

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Re: Ghost Guns
« Reply #109 on: May 21, 2021, 05:13:10 pm »
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Ponder; A weapon is used to murder one of your loved ones, would you not wish the paper trail may help in apprehending the perp? (as you say) It seems to be a no-brainer unless you don't care.

If someone kills someone I love I don't care about the weapon.  I want the perp caught.  No paper trail on a weapon is going to make any difference there. 
Fact is, my loved one is more likely to be stabbed or bludgeoned to death than shot, unless they are somewhere like Chicago, NY or Philidelphia...and more often, in Portland which has had a huge increase in shootings since they did away with the gang enforcement team, and the gun violence reduction team.  who could have seen that coming??

We already have gun registration but most people don't seem to realize it.  If you buy a weapon from a gun dealer, which is how most people buy, you go through a background check and the weapon is listed.  They are not supposed to keep that info, but no one believes they don't.  They also don't like to answer questions about whether or not there is a database. 

Private sales records vary from state to state.   Since criminals don't follow laws, the only reason for keeping records is to keep track of lawful owners.  Why?

Look at your own country, Australia, New Zealand, Zimbabwe, or many other places that ended up confiscating weapons.  This is why we object to universal registration of weapons.  Once they know what you have, they know what to take. 
They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline cidersabuzzin

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Re: Ghost Guns
« Reply #110 on: May 21, 2021, 05:14:35 pm »
So called GHOST GUNS have a serial number on the receiver from the manufacturer,  they are traceable but that has not ever been a significant "clue" in the solving of a crime, Except on TV
But if there a required paper trail? A lot of responsibility comes with a robust paper trail. now we get into the realms of whom would want to hide the possession of a weapon and why they would want to do that?.......

YEP, criminals, and they are going to do what ever they can think about,  Laws are only respected by law abiding citizens

I do not know why someone would want to hide a paper trail except for the possibility of the election of a rogue government coming into power, which may be anti-constitutional and pro government power. A form of government similar to such governments as china and other communist, marxist, and or fascist governments who leaders have boasted. "Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun." Our principle is that the Party commands the gun, and the gun must never be allowed to command the Party." Naturally this type of folks would seek to confiscate papertrail guns? By the way, isn't that what some of the leaders of the left seem to be heading for?

From the Daily Caller
ANDREW KERR
INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER

August 17, 2020
3:44 PM ET
A senior advisor to Joe Biden's presidential campaign said Chinese dictator Mao Zedong was one of her "favorite political philosophers" during a speech to graduating high schoolers in 2009.[/b]

Anita Dunn, who was temporarily granted effective control of Biden's campaign in February and now serves as a senior advisor, said Mao and Mother Teresa were "the two people that I turn to most" when she needs to encourage others to break from the mold and blaze their own trail in life.

Yet they they elected biden anyway....  goodness


That's democracy for you, doesn't always turn out what you desire. Maybe you could round up your friends with their unregistered weapons to have an insurrection/civil war. Good luck, you'll need it. The loony right dreaming again.
Pills and salt are coming to mind again, even without iddee.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2021, 05:35:40 pm by cidersabuzzin »
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Offline Kathyp

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Re: Ghost Guns
« Reply #111 on: May 21, 2021, 06:17:16 pm »
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now we get into the realms of whom would want to hide the possession of a weapon and why they would want to do that?......
.

We are not a democracy. 

I believe we have declared the causes.  While I would not like to see civil war, I believe we are already in a cold civil war.  All that remains is to find a solution.  A division of the country would be the least violent and probably best solution.  Those of us who wish to keep the Constitution as law can go our way, and those who do not, can go theirs. 

Emphasis added by me. 

In Congress, July 4, 1776

The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America, When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.--Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.

He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.

He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.

He has refused to pass other Laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of Representation in the Legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only.

He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their public Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.

He has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people.

He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected; whereby the Legislative powers, incapable of Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining in the mean time exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within.

He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.

He has obstructed the Administration of Justice, by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary powers.

He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone, for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.

He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harrass our people, and eat out their substance.

He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the Consent of our legislatures.

He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil power.

He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:

For Quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:

For protecting them, by a mock Trial, from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:

For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world:

For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:

For depriving us in many cases, of the benefits of Trial by Jury:

For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences

For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province, establishing therein an Arbitrary government, and enlarging its Boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule into these Colonies:

For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws, and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments:

For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever.

He has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of his Protection and waging War against us.

He has plundered our seas, ravaged our Coasts, burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people.

He is at this time transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation.

He has constrained our fellow Citizens taken Captive on the high Seas to bear Arms against their Country, to become the executioners of their friends and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands.

He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages, whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions.

In every stage of these Oppressions We have Petitioned for Redress in the most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. A Prince whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people.

Nor have We been wanting in attentions to our Brittish brethren. We have warned them from time to time of attempts by their legislature to extend an unwarrantable jurisdiction over us. We have reminded them of the circumstances of our emigration and settlement here. We have appealed to their native justice and magnanimity, and we have conjured them by the ties of our common kindred to disavow these usurpations, which, would inevitably interrupt our connections and correspondence. They too have been deaf to the voice of justice and of consanguinity. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the necessity, which denounces our Separation, and hold them, as we hold the rest of mankind, Enemies in War, in Peace Friends.

We, therefore, the Representatives of the united States of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly publish and declare, That these United Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States; that they are Absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the State of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as Free and Independent States, they have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent States may of right do. And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.

Georgia

Button Gwinnett

Lyman Hall

George Walton

 

North Carolina

William Hooper

Joseph Hewes

John Penn

 

South Carolina

Edward Rutledge

Thomas Heyward, Jr.

Thomas Lynch, Jr.

Arthur Middleton

 

Massachusetts

John Hancock

Maryland

Samuel Chase

William Paca

Thomas Stone

Charles Carroll of Carrollton

 

Virginia

George Wythe

Richard Henry Lee

Thomas Jefferson

Benjamin Harrison

Thomas Nelson, Jr.

Francis Lightfoot Lee

Carter Braxton

 

Pennsylvania

Robert Morris

Benjamin Rush

Benjamin Franklin

John Morton

George Clymer

James Smith

George Taylor

James Wilson

George Ross

Delaware

Caesar Rodney

George Read

Thomas McKean

 

New York

William Floyd

Philip Livingston

Francis Lewis

Lewis Morris

 

New Jersey

Richard Stockton

John Witherspoon

Francis Hopkinson

John Hart

Abraham Clark

 

New Hampshire

Josiah Bartlett

William Whipple

 

Massachusetts

Samuel Adams

John Adams

Robert Treat Paine

Elbridge Gerry

 

Rhode Island

Stephen Hopkins

William Ellery

 

Connecticut

Roger Sherman

Samuel Huntington

William Williams

Oliver Wolcott

 

New Hampshire

Matthew Thornton

 




 
They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline CoolBees

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Re: Ghost Guns
« Reply #112 on: May 21, 2021, 07:43:23 pm »
What has everyone got against a serial number being applied to an unfinished receiver? ...

The government has no business knowing who has guns - so the serial # is irrelevant. In America, the Founders decided that the people should have guns [ref Jefferson and Adams specifically] on the basis that, governments will always trend towards absolute power, and the counter to this is a free people with the ability to say "NO!" To government and make it "stick". Thus the saying:

If the government fears the people, there is freedom. If the people fear their government, there is tyranny"

So - gun ownership and gun rights were woven into the fabric at the founding of America.

Today, we see politicians that seem to want absolute power. It is beginning to appear that the Founders were wise men. At No Time does our government have a need, or a right, to know who has guns, or bags of sugar, or 2 pairs of sneakers, etc - its none of thier business!!!


So called GHOST GUNS have a serial number on the receiver from the manufacturer,  they are traceable but that has not, ever been a significant "clue" in the solving of a crime, Except on TV

Actually not - but I'd like to see a study about how often a legally purchased gun changes hands in its life. I'd venture that 99%+ of all guns (greater than 10 yrs old) in circulation today are no longer in the possession of the original purchaser - making the "serial #'s on guns solves crimes" argument a joke (at best) or a lie (at worst) - as you state.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2021, 09:00:20 pm by sawdstmakr »
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Offline CoolBees

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Re: Ghost Guns
« Reply #113 on: May 21, 2021, 07:54:17 pm »
Quote
now we get into the realms of whom would want to hide the possession of a weapon and why they would want to do that?......
.

We are not a democracy. 


You beat me to it Kathy - we are a Constitutional Republic: in short, this means that an individual has rights above the Mob.

The left would love for us to be a democracy - i.e. Mob Rule.

Benjamin Franklin (I believe) said - "A democracy is 2 Wolves and a Lamb, voting on what's for dinner. A Constitutional Republic is a Well Armed Lamb, contesting the Vote".
You cannot permanently help men by doing for them, what they could and should do for themselves - Abraham Lincoln

Offline CoolBees

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Re: Ghost Guns
« Reply #114 on: May 21, 2021, 07:59:04 pm »
... I think the only good reason to buy a receiver and assembly it yourself, is for the simple happiness of the do it yourselfer. ...

I think the left is having fits right now, because they don't know how many "home-made" guns are out there, and as such, are forced to pause thier take-over of the country, and re-think their strategy(s) ... that strikes me as another "good reason" ...

.... ... Question do gun barrels have serial numbers as well?

Mostly - No.
You cannot permanently help men by doing for them, what they could and should do for themselves - Abraham Lincoln

Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Ghost Guns
« Reply #115 on: May 21, 2021, 11:00:25 pm »
Excellent replies friends. It would seem Ciders' hind side is still chapped because of the powerful words posted by our momentous, epoch-making, founders in reply 111, along with the humiliating defeat of the world's number one power of that day. Yes defeated by well armed backwoods-men as they were described and referred to by the "elitist" from our oppressive Mother England.. Wounded pride I suppose?  Especially if one examines the last names of each founder, he will find all English. Tis a pity some of our British Cousins are still all up in the air....  :cheesy: :wink:

For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Offline Acebird

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Re: Ghost Guns
« Reply #116 on: May 22, 2021, 08:49:22 am »
Are you trying to make the point that non-white people commit more crimes that require jail time?
That is the myth that white people believe.
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Offline Acebird

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Re: Ghost Guns
« Reply #117 on: May 22, 2021, 08:52:12 am »
Quote
now we get into the realms of whom would want to hide the possession of a weapon and why they would want to do that?......
.

We are not a democracy. 

Not anymore.  LOL
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Offline Ben Framed

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Re: Ghost Guns
« Reply #118 on: May 22, 2021, 09:13:03 am »
Are you trying to make the point that non-white people commit more crimes that require jail time?
That is the myth that white people believe.

Are you a racist? You are constantly pointing out your perception of white people. Always labeling and downing white people? What color are you?  I suspect you are white with a guilty conscience for something in YOUR past and perhaps you now associate yourself as being another color? Wouldn?t surprise me, some liberals are really out there, into  the (I am this but I associate myself as being that). Some a male thinking they are female. Some white thinking they are black.  I have even read where one associated himself as being a tree!  Yes a tree! : Well, I suppose he could qualify as a tree, all he produced was nuts!   :cheesy:
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Offline CoolBees

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Re: Ghost Guns
« Reply #119 on: May 22, 2021, 12:05:26 pm »
... I suspect you are white with a guilty conscience for something in YOUR past ...

I've often wondered about this: why do so many people react when accused of "racisim"? I don't react. It's like calling me a "bird feather" - I just look confused, and then figure the person talking is a "little slow upstairs".

But why do so many others react? ... the only answer I've come up with, is that in order to get a reaction, it must be hitting a nerve. In other words, it hits people's guilty conscience ... makes no sense to me.
You cannot permanently help men by doing for them, what they could and should do for themselves - Abraham Lincoln