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Author Topic: Queen Rearing  (Read 59046 times)

Offline hardwood

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Re: Queen Rearing
« Reply #40 on: March 07, 2011, 11:06:31 pm »
The only big secret to grafting queens is eyesight :) The first time I tried grafting was with a store-bought tool using store-bought plastic cups fresh out of the bag. I only grafted 6 or so cups and ended up with maybe 3 cells. Not a great percentage but not a really bad one either.

The next time I tried I first sprayed the cups with sugar water and placed the bars in a hive for 24hrs before grafting. I got a little better take on that one but I wanted to see if I could do better so kept experimenting with the variables. I went to home dipped wax cups, grafting larvae of various ages, grafting at different times of the year and during different flow periods and even messed with lunar cycles for a bit.

The things that probably made the biggest difference for me were:
1) Using natural wax cups (I still run trials between wax and plastic and wax beats plastic every time. Maybe not by much, but wax always wins.)
2) Homemade grafting tools. The ones that you buy for $10 or so are great for mutilating larvae. I can show you how to make a better one from a paper clip.
3) Using the right larvae. In theory any larva the is still being fed royal jelly should work (1-4 days from the egg) but in practice I find a better take from younger larvae (can barely see them in a pool of royal jelly) and you can estimate the new queen's emergence a little better if they are all about the same age.
4) The more young bees you have to build the cells the better. Something I learned not long ago, well maybe 2 years ?, from Alan Bukley was that you can start cells in a small queenless AND broodless nuc. Makes a lot of sense when you think about it if no brood the nurse bees have nothing to do but raise your grafts. Young bees is key.
5) Feed them whether during a flow or not. The more you convince them that they should multiply (swarm) the better.

We'll be going over this stuff at Bud's again this year with hands-on demos.

Scott

"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag...We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...And we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

Theodore Roosevelt 1907

Offline Philipgard

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Re: Queen Rearing
« Reply #41 on: August 18, 2011, 12:01:58 pm »
 I have a new mated queen but she has not started laying eggs yet. It's been two weeks so what should I do? We did have an infestation of hive beetles but have pretty much eradicated that problem.  We have fed them sugar solution 1:1 infused with Bee Max to help stimulate egg laying but no go so far...?

Offline beequeensro

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Re: Queen Rearing
« Reply #42 on: January 15, 2012, 01:41:07 am »
Maybe that queen needs more time to begin laying eggs, some queens are "laizy", or maybe your queen have an anatomic malformation that prevents laying (abnormal ovaries, etc.). I'm curious what happend with that queen, from august. It started or not laying eggs?

Offline The Bix

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Re: Queen Rearing
« Reply #43 on: February 08, 2012, 02:49:00 pm »

2) Homemade grafting tools. The ones that you buy for $10 or so are great for mutilating larvae. I can show you how to make a better one from a paper clip.


Scott,

Any chance you could post a picture of your homebrew grafting tool?

Thanks!

--John

Offline hardwood

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Re: Queen Rearing
« Reply #44 on: February 09, 2012, 01:32:26 pm »
"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag...We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...And we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

Theodore Roosevelt 1907

Offline hardwood

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Re: Queen Rearing
« Reply #45 on: February 09, 2012, 02:02:51 pm »
John, these are the ones I use most of the time. I buy old dental tools for $1 at a surplus store and modify them with a simple propane torch and hammer. I've made them using everything from toothpicks to paper clips and ss welding wire.

I'll have a bunch at Bud4 in April if you happen to head over. Maybe another raffle item??

Scott
"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag...We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...And we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

Theodore Roosevelt 1907

Offline BlueBee

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Re: Queen Rearing
« Reply #46 on: February 09, 2012, 04:04:52 pm »
No cavities at my last checkup, but seeing dental tools give me the willies. :evil:

Offline The Bix

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Re: Queen Rearing
« Reply #47 on: February 09, 2012, 11:33:03 pm »
Scott,

Oddly enough, I went to the dentist today (was scheduled 6 months ago), yes, I picked up an old dental tool that they were going to recycle--it was free...thanks for the heads up.  I would have had to wait another 6 months to score one of those things.  Now I just need to reshape it. :)

--John

Offline Keeperwannabe

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Re: Queen Rearing
« Reply #48 on: February 10, 2012, 06:35:04 pm »
Hopkins method makes sense for just a few queens, or Allen or Miller methods. Grafting is just too much work for a few queens.

Offline hardwood

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Re: Queen Rearing
« Reply #49 on: February 10, 2012, 08:08:23 pm »
Keeper, we'll be grafting for 1500 splits starting next week.

I often graft 1 bar (18 cells) just to have a few on hand.

Scott
"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag...We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...And we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

Theodore Roosevelt 1907

Offline beekeeper7777

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Re: Queen Rearing
« Reply #50 on: January 06, 2023, 02:15:25 pm »
I plan on getting ready this year to make my own queens for 2006, has anyone ever use the Jenter or Nicot systems, I would rather choose one of these two so i dont have to graft. I just would like to hear what you all think so I know witch would be the best for me. has anyone in here tried to raise there own queens :?:

The Jenter and Nicot systems are both methods of queen rearing that do not require grafting. Both systems involve using a special type of cell cup that allows the bees to raise their own queen cells, rather than having to graft larvae into artificial cell cups.

The Jenter system involves using a specialized piece of equipment called a Jenter kit, which consists of a series of cell cups that are placed in a frame. The bees are then allowed to build their own queen cells in the cell cups. Once the cells are capped, they can be transferred to a new hive, where they will hatch and emerge as queens.

The Nicot system is similar to the Jenter system, but it uses a different type of cell cup and a different method of transferring the cells to a new hive. In the Nicot system, the cell cups are placed in a frame that is inserted into the hive, and the bees are allowed to build their own queen cells in the cups. Once the cells are capped, the frame is removed from the hive and placed in a special incubator, where the cells are allowed to hatch and emerge as queens.

Both the Jenter and Nicot systems have their own set of advantages and disadvantages, and it's ultimately up to you to decide which method is best for you. Some beekeepers prefer the Jenter system because it is relatively simple to use and does not require a lot of specialized equipment. Others prefer the Nicot system because it allows for more precise control over the temperature and humidity in the incubator, which can help to improve the success rate of the cells.

Offline The15thMember

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Re: Queen Rearing
« Reply #51 on: January 06, 2023, 02:35:24 pm »
I plan on getting ready this year to make my own queens for 2006, has anyone ever use the Jenter or Nicot systems, I would rather choose one of these two so i dont have to graft. I just would like to hear what you all think so I know witch would be the best for me. has anyone in here tried to raise there own queens :?:

The Jenter and Nicot systems are both methods of queen rearing that do not require grafting. Both systems involve using a special type of cell cup that allows the bees to raise their own queen cells, rather than having to graft larvae into artificial cell cups.

The Jenter system involves using a specialized piece of equipment called a Jenter kit, which consists of a series of cell cups that are placed in a frame. The bees are then allowed to build their own queen cells in the cell cups. Once the cells are capped, they can be transferred to a new hive, where they will hatch and emerge as queens.

The Nicot system is similar to the Jenter system, but it uses a different type of cell cup and a different method of transferring the cells to a new hive. In the Nicot system, the cell cups are placed in a frame that is inserted into the hive, and the bees are allowed to build their own queen cells in the cups. Once the cells are capped, the frame is removed from the hive and placed in a special incubator, where the cells are allowed to hatch and emerge as queens.

Both the Jenter and Nicot systems have their own set of advantages and disadvantages, and it's ultimately up to you to decide which method is best for you. Some beekeepers prefer the Jenter system because it is relatively simple to use and does not require a lot of specialized equipment. Others prefer the Nicot system because it allows for more precise control over the temperature and humidity in the incubator, which can help to improve the success rate of the cells.
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Offline BeeMaster2

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Re: Queen Rearing
« Reply #52 on: January 06, 2023, 04:23:33 pm »
7777,
Welcome to Beemaster.
I have a Nicot System. It requires you to install the board in the hive for a day?s worth of cleaning and then go back in the hive the next day and find and put the queen in it. If you cannot find a queen in a large hive it does not work.
Jim Altmiller

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Re: Queen Rearing
« Reply #53 on: January 07, 2023, 12:26:20 am »
Welcome beekeeper7777

Phillip
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Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Queen Rearing
« Reply #54 on: January 07, 2023, 09:41:15 am »
The main significant difference between a Jenter/Nicot system is the number of trips to the hive.  Ignoring the things that are the same with grafting like setting up starters and finishers and mating nucs, the initial steps for the Jenter/Nicot is 1 trip to the hive to put it in the brood nest and let them clean it up and prepare it. 1 trip to find and confine the queen (and I have to find the queen). 1 trip to release the queen 24 hours later (so she doesn't lay a bunch of double and triple eggs).  1 trip to get the right age larvae and transfer the plug with the larvae to the queen cell cup and put it on the cell bar.  1 trip to put the cell bar in the starter. So from when I started to when I have cells for the starter it's 5 trips to the bee yard and one time I have to find a queen.  With grafting I just make 1 trip, find the right age larvae and 1 trip to put the cell bar in the starter.  And I don't have to find the queen at all.  that's 5 trips and finding the queen vs 2 trips and no need to find the queen.  It's just less work to graft.  But you need the eyesight to do it.

Jenter vs Nicot.  I'm not sure anyone is selling the Jenter equipment now.  They may be.  I think it's a superior system, mostly because the queen has more cells to lay in with Jenter.  You can only transfer every other one, but the queen is more likely to lay in it.  The Nicot has fake capped cells where you don't transfer them so there are like 1/4 as many cells for her to lay in and they are not all open like the Jenter.  This means she is less likely to lay in it.  Otherwise they are quite similar.  I do like the hair curler cages better on the Nicot than the ones that come with the Jenter.  But you can buy Nicot hair curler cages and put them on the Jenter if you want to.
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