Russian Bees - what are the negatives?

[CoolBees]

I am thinking of picking up a couple of packages with Russian Queens (Steve Coy's) in them this spring, to add to my local genetics over time.

What, if any, reasons would I wish I hadn't done this later on?

Thank you in advance,
Alan

[LizzieBee]

I?ve heard they can be aggressive towards people, but I?ve also heard they?re gentle. I guess you?ll have to find out. They?re very hardy and resistant to mites and other pests.

-Lizzie

[CoolBees]

Thank you Lizzie. Unless I hear otherwise, I think I'll have to try them.

Alan

[SiWolKe]

I scanned the forums to find out about the behaviours of the russian bees ( here called primorskij).

Those keeping this bees told about the hybrids ( mix of carniolans, buckfast, italiens) being aggressive. They select and shift those queens to more gentle ones.

Honey harvest is the same. They can tolerate more mites. They clean the hives of mites after the flow season. Hybrids are not as mite resistant.

These informations are coming from beekeepers who keep those bees for practical use , it?s not scientific reseach.. The beekeepers try to keep the strains pure by isolated mating places or artificial inseminated queens.

There are some professional queen breeders ( for example Josef Koller) who use russian bees in austria and germany. On their websites I did not find anything negative about aggressiveness.
Those black bees seem to be more hardy concerning brood disease too.

But I don?t know how the breeding selection went in the US.

I had a neighbor once who kept primorskij bees. They are big drifters. The foragers are known to drift into strong foreign colonies, abandoning their own.
I experienced this with one of my carniolans. Suddenly 1/3 were black bees and this hive produced a lot of honey. After 3 weeks the black bees were gone.

[iddee]

First year, nice, gentle, fun bees. Resistant good producers.

After supercedure and bred with locals, irritable, defensive, easily upset.

After second supercedure, MEAN.

After third supercedure, they teach Africans battle methods.

[jalentour]

I'm going into the third season with Russian hives.
I purchased 15 nucs from a breeder in Mississippi.
Some hives thrived, some did so so the first season.  Thirteen of fifteen survived the first winter.
From the 13 I made 20 more hives.
Second season hives were more or less like Italian, varying degrees of aggressive.
End of second season more hives were aggressive than usual.  Honey production was down in all hives (and locally).
Fall was tough on the Russians, only 8 of 15 survived the OA vapor treatments/mite loads.
So far as of 1/15/19 only 7 of 15 survived.  Mutt hives from splits are doing surprisingly well.
When I apply the OA vapor I get stung a lot with the Russians, more than mutt hives.  Each hive has it's own personality.
My neighbor generally had Carnys, I don't doubt they have influenced my hives in some way.

I am considering adding certified Russian queens to the splits this year.  I think mutts are better honey producers. 

[beesnweeds]

I've been grafting from my Russian queens for about 6 years.  The negatives are not terrible,  behaviors like jumping to the hive tool if I'm moving fast around open boxes and runny on the combs don't bother me.  Yes they are a bit spicy but certainly not Africanized, they are not chasing me to the house and killing pets. Probably not good for a soft beginner.  I've really grown to like the positives, they can make it through the winter on 30 or 40 pounds of stores and they make overwintering nucs easy. I only use oxalic acid to keep mite numbers down and haven't noticed as many illnesses like Italians (DWV, chalkbrood, dysentery, etc.)  As long as they keep filling supers and surviving winter I'm going to keep them.  It gets -30F or lower here and while I can make a Siberian Husky and a Chihuahua survive here, I have a much greater chance with the Husky.

[jalentour]

I would not recommend for the beginner either.

[CoolBees]

Thank you to all of you who responded.

If I under the culmination of everyone's thoughts:
- the Russian bees get hotter to work with as they cross breed
- no more mite resistant than Survivor Mutts, especially after the 3rd generation
- they winter well - which doesn't really help me.

Based on reading (online) I had gotten the impression that the Russians had a better chance of being kept without treatment. I'm glad I asked. While "hot" bees don't worry me that much, non-resistant "hot" bees sounds like a stupid road to go down.

[herbhome]

My biggest problem with them is by the time the colony has built up to take advantage of the spring flow,(our most important), they would swarm out. I now have Italians.

[CoolBees]

My biggest problem with them is by the time the colony has built up to take advantage of the spring flow,(our most important), they would swarm out. I now have Italians.

Well, that doesn't do.

I know that many strains of bees have developed swarminess to combat problems. However, Michael Bush, Randy O. (and others) have proven that the answer can also be found other ways. Russians are not what I'm looking for - I now think.

Alan

[Michael Bush]

To me the biggest is that they are unpredictable.  One hive will be very nice.  Another will be vicious.  One will be productive and another will be unproductive.  One will be swarmy.  Another won't.  The Italians in this country are much more consistent.  I'm happier with local mutts.  They are somewhat unpredictable, but not as bad as the Russians.

[seanconnery]

I am Slavic stock. I agree.

[beesnweeds]

I agree too, and wouldn't recommend them either.  You cant keep Russians expecting them to be like Italians.  They have a learning curve and if you don't stack them high and early you'll be scratching your head looking at brood frames full of nectar wondering were did the bees go? I'm missing the spring flow!  They perform as well as Italians when it comes to honey production. Unless you're bit of a risk taker and willing to try new bees and beekeeping practices, don't get them.  Personally I have good luck with them and wouldn't think twice about adding new Russian queens to my apiary but I'm happy with grafting from what I have now.

[SiWolKe]

In our climate zone ( warm but very wet winters) the italians are not wintering well.

[Michael Bush]

If I were buying bees, I would prefer Carniolans over Italians.  But local mutts are better.